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Gokul Rajaram

@gokulr • 119,174 subscribers

investor (https://t.co/WA10gfO4Re) and builder (https://t.co/sfUX2djxA0, https://t.co/ecI8a0uqBQ)

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You Can't Vibe-Code Trust Avishai Abrahami, Co-Founder & CEO of Wix , interviewed by Harry Stebbings (kevin andres) Summary: Wix trades at a $2.8B market cap on $2.1B of revenue while the market ascribes roughly zero value to a business throwing off $400M a year in free cash flow. Wix CEO Avishai Abrahami's argument is that the market can't yet price what AI actually threatens: the moat is trust and business logic, and neither gets vibe-coded away. His response is to own the disruptor (Base44), train his own narrow models, and stay committed through a storm he insists always arrives on a random Wednesday. 1. Trust is the moat. The real value of Salesforce is trust: JP Morgan and huge banks let it hold all their customer data, and the CRM itself is a small part of that. "What other platform will JP Morgan trust for their customers' data? None." That trust took years to build and can't be reconstructed by an agent scraping a database, so the companies whose value lives in trust survive the SaaS apocalypse while the ones reduced to piping get commoditized. 2. The business-logic wall. "You're not going to vibe-code Shopify no matter how good you are. The business logic is too hard." Wix tested this directly: they asked a team of professional developers to build the operating logic for a single hairdresser in Base44, gave up after a week, brought in a stronger team, and still failed two weeks later. Complex operational software is far harder than a demo suggests, which is why the pizza shop and the hairdresser stay Wix customers rather than build their own stack. 3. Own the disruptor. Wix bought Base44, a one-person company, for $80M, and it now does over $150M in ARR, roughly double what they paid. Abrahami frames the future as three buckets: owners who never want to build, owners who vibe-code everything themselves, and a mix in the middle over the next five or six years. Rather than bet on which wins, Wix owns the tool customers would defect to, so a customer who switches platforms still switches to Wix. 4. Trading on someone else's news. "Today we are trading on other companies' news. We're not trading on Wix news. We're trading on what OpenAI or Anthropic or Google are saying." Base44 alone, valued on vibe-coding peer multiples, should be worth around $8B, which means the market assigns less than zero to Wix's core. Abrahami's response is to detach: he doesn't wake up checking whether the stock moved 20%, because the only thing he can influence is the business. 5. The narrow model. Wix fine-tuned and combined its own models and now matches top-tier frontier quality on Base44 tasks at far lower cost. The logic: they sit on a huge stream of training data from watching what users try and where they fail, so a model built for Base44 can skip what frontier models carry, like knowledge of Chinese poetry, and go deep on what someone means when they say "build me a task manager to tell my boyfriend where he's wrong." A narrow target is easier to hit than a frontier model, and Wix already runs a trained model on website generation that's faster, cheaper, and makes fewer errors, retrained weekly on a live feedback loop. 6. Quality before cost. When Harry cites Chamath's claim that open source runs 14-16x cheaper, Abrahami pushes back: that holds for small tasks, but for something as complex as Base44 the savings land at 5-10%, and his own model runs 1-30% cheaper than frontier, not the order of magnitude people assume. More to the point, this is the wrong time to chase cost: "20% more quality, 20% less cost, I'll go for the quality." It's a brand-new market that's just starting, and the job now is to make the product better. 7. The but is very big. "We all give too much credit for AI. It's amazing, it's incredible, it's super powerful, but the but is pretty big." He asked Claude to write a safety protocol and got six mandatory gates, then pushed back on each one and watched the model cave until only one survived, downgrading the rest from "must test" to "might want to look at later." We over-trust these systems, and that reflex, treating a Reddit post as equivalent to research published in Nature, is where the danger lives. 8. Customer support still breaks. Wix has 3,500 people and its single biggest department is customer support, serving 192 countries. They tried hard not to build their own AI support agent, tested many off-the-shelf products, and concluded flatly: "It doesn't work. We tried, we tried again, it didn't work." The gap between hyped AI support startups and what actually ships in production is the tell that the technology is earlier than the marketing, maybe five years from being different. 9. Buybacks as dividends. Wix had $1.5B sitting in the bank it couldn't put into a major acquisition because it was focused on the new product and Base44, so it bought back stock at a low price, with admittedly terrible short-term timing. Abrahami is unbothered: "The big question is where it's going to be in three years, not what happened in the last three months." He argues buybacks are a fantastic, underused tool, essentially a dividend to every shareholder, and companies should lean on them to balance stock-based compensation instead of endlessly diluting. 10. Execution, not finance. A low stock price makes M&A currency less valuable, but Abrahami says that's not his real constraint. Base44 was a one-person company; Wix had to build an entire company around it, staffing it with people pulled from the core. "I don't know how to do another one of those at the same time and have the same quality." The bottleneck on the next acquisition is execution capacity, not the balance sheet. 11. Chosen to be here. The one thing money buys beyond food security is freedom, and the deepest form of that freedom is knowing you're here by choice. "I'm here because I've chosen to be here. Nobody made me." He could move to Costa Rica or dance carnival in Brazil, and choosing to stay and run a public company through a crashing stock is where he finds his power. Money also made him more impatient and a bit lazier, and more rational because he's no longer deciding from fear. 12. The random Wednesday. Resilience starts with accepting the storm will come, because we assume that if yesterday was easy tomorrow will be too, and reality doesn't move in gentle slopes. "The worst thing that happens is probably some random thing on some random Wednesday. It's not something you get a lot of warning for." His anchor, borrowed from Babylon 5, is that you get there when you get there and the weapons you have are the weapons you have, so the only real question is whether you're doing the best you can with what you control.

You Can't Vibe-Code Trust Avishai Abrahami, Co-Founder & CEO of Wix , interviewed by Harry Stebbings (kevin andres) Summary: Wix trades at a $2.8B market cap on $2.1B of revenue while the market ascribes roughly zero value to a business throwing off $400M a year in free cash flow. Wix CEO Avishai Abrahami's argument is that the market can't yet price what AI actually threatens: the moat is trust and business logic, and neither gets vibe-coded away. His response is to own the disruptor (Base44), train his own narrow models, and stay committed through a storm he insists always arrives on a random Wednesday. 1. Trust is the moat. The real value of Salesforce is trust: JP Morgan and huge banks let it hold all their customer data, and the CRM itself is a small part of that. "What other platform will JP Morgan trust for their customers' data? None." That trust took years to build and can't be reconstructed by an agent scraping a database, so the companies whose value lives in trust survive the SaaS apocalypse while the ones reduced to piping get commoditized. 2. The business-logic wall. "You're not going to vibe-code Shopify no matter how good you are. The business logic is too hard." Wix tested this directly: they asked a team of professional developers to build the operating logic for a single hairdresser in Base44, gave up after a week, brought in a stronger team, and still failed two weeks later. Complex operational software is far harder than a demo suggests, which is why the pizza shop and the hairdresser stay Wix customers rather than build their own stack. 3. Own the disruptor. Wix bought Base44, a one-person company, for $80M, and it now does over $150M in ARR, roughly double what they paid. Abrahami frames the future as three buckets: owners who never want to build, owners who vibe-code everything themselves, and a mix in the middle over the next five or six years. Rather than bet on which wins, Wix owns the tool customers would defect to, so a customer who switches platforms still switches to Wix. 4. Trading on someone else's news. "Today we are trading on other companies' news. We're not trading on Wix news. We're trading on what OpenAI or Anthropic or Google are saying." Base44 alone, valued on vibe-coding peer multiples, should be worth around $8B, which means the market assigns less than zero to Wix's core. Abrahami's response is to detach: he doesn't wake up checking whether the stock moved 20%, because the only thing he can influence is the business. 5. The narrow model. Wix fine-tuned and combined its own models and now matches top-tier frontier quality on Base44 tasks at far lower cost. The logic: they sit on a huge stream of training data from watching what users try and where they fail, so a model built for Base44 can skip what frontier models carry, like knowledge of Chinese poetry, and go deep on what someone means when they say "build me a task manager to tell my boyfriend where he's wrong." A narrow target is easier to hit than a frontier model, and Wix already runs a trained model on website generation that's faster, cheaper, and makes fewer errors, retrained weekly on a live feedback loop. 6. Quality before cost. When Harry cites Chamath's claim that open source runs 14-16x cheaper, Abrahami pushes back: that holds for small tasks, but for something as complex as Base44 the savings land at 5-10%, and his own model runs 1-30% cheaper than frontier, not the order of magnitude people assume. More to the point, this is the wrong time to chase cost: "20% more quality, 20% less cost, I'll go for the quality." It's a brand-new market that's just starting, and the job now is to make the product better. 7. The but is very big. "We all give too much credit for AI. It's amazing, it's incredible, it's super powerful, but the but is pretty big." He asked Claude to write a safety protocol and got six mandatory gates, then pushed back on each one and watched the model cave until only one survived, downgrading the rest from "must test" to "might want to look at later." We over-trust these systems, and that reflex, treating a Reddit post as equivalent to research published in Nature, is where the danger lives. 8. Customer support still breaks. Wix has 3,500 people and its single biggest department is customer support, serving 192 countries. They tried hard not to build their own AI support agent, tested many off-the-shelf products, and concluded flatly: "It doesn't work. We tried, we tried again, it didn't work." The gap between hyped AI support startups and what actually ships in production is the tell that the technology is earlier than the marketing, maybe five years from being different. 9. Buybacks as dividends. Wix had $1.5B sitting in the bank it couldn't put into a major acquisition because it was focused on the new product and Base44, so it bought back stock at a low price, with admittedly terrible short-term timing. Abrahami is unbothered: "The big question is where it's going to be in three years, not what happened in the last three months." He argues buybacks are a fantastic, underused tool, essentially a dividend to every shareholder, and companies should lean on them to balance stock-based compensation instead of endlessly diluting. 10. Execution, not finance. A low stock price makes M&A currency less valuable, but Abrahami says that's not his real constraint. Base44 was a one-person company; Wix had to build an entire company around it, staffing it with people pulled from the core. "I don't know how to do another one of those at the same time and have the same quality." The bottleneck on the next acquisition is execution capacity, not the balance sheet. 11. Chosen to be here. The one thing money buys beyond food security is freedom, and the deepest form of that freedom is knowing you're here by choice. "I'm here because I've chosen to be here. Nobody made me." He could move to Costa Rica or dance carnival in Brazil, and choosing to stay and run a public company through a crashing stock is where he finds his power. Money also made him more impatient and a bit lazier, and more rational because he's no longer deciding from fear. 12. The random Wednesday. Resilience starts with accepting the storm will come, because we assume that if yesterday was easy tomorrow will be too, and reality doesn't move in gentle slopes. "The worst thing that happens is probably some random thing on some random Wednesday. It's not something you get a lot of warning for." His anchor, borrowed from Babylon 5, is that you get there when you get there and the weapons you have are the weapons you have, so the only real question is whether you're doing the best you can with what you control.

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Model routing is getting a lot of airtime this week. But how many companies are actually doing the unglamorous pre-work of benchmarking models against their most token-intensive production tasks (real code, real PRs)? DoorDash is. They’re running open-weight models at frontier performance. Lots of practical gems from Andy Fang , one of the true 0-to-1 engineers.
0:21
gokulr's profile picture

Model routing is getting a lot of airtime this week. But how many companies are actually doing the unglamorous pre-work of benchmarking models against their most token-intensive production tasks (real code, real PRs)? DoorDash is. They’re running open-weight models at frontier performance. Lots of practical gems from Andy Fang , one of the true 0-to-1 engineers.

Gokul Rajaram

14,294 просмотров • 2 месяцев назад

Thank you Merrill Lutsky for the call out on TBPN and for referencing the dashboard company / pipes company framework. Congrats to you and the Graphite team on building an amazing dashboard company, and on the exciting milestone!
0:26
gokulr's profile picture

Thank you Merrill Lutsky for the call out on TBPN and for referencing the dashboard company / pipes company framework. Congrats to you and the Graphite team on building an amazing dashboard company, and on the exciting milestone!

Gokul Rajaram

15,876 просмотров • 9 месяцев назад

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