The Hurdle Rate Podcast
@HurdleRatePod • 7,123 subscribers
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Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate. Episode 60: The Math of Amplification In this week's Hurdle Rate, the crew breaks down the latest corporate Bitcoin market activity and Strive's growing Bitcoin holdings, before turning to Strategy's Bitcoin sale and what the balance sheet math actually reveals about risk and permanent impairment. We dig into historical bear market scenarios, how to manage amplification ratios, and the product management and demand dynamics shaping the treasury company landscape. We close with a deeper look at what digital credit actually is and why it matters for the road ahead. Here's the latest with Tim Kotzman, Matt Cole, Jeff Walton, and Ben Werkman 00:00 - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate 02:26 - Analysis of Strategy's Debt Retirement 10:48 - Capital Structure and Market Perception 21:57 - Strive's Bitcoin Holdings Update 23:26 - SATA Daily Dividends Launch 31:40 - Strive Market Cap and Efficiency 33:14 - Ecosystem Cooperation and Voting 42:04 - New Federal Reserve Chair Outlook
The Hurdle Rate Podcast189,986 views • 12 days ago
Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate. Episode 58: Exponential Innovation The crew is back this week diving into Strive’s evolution into “The Daily Dividend Company” and what that could mean for the future of financial products. They discuss the experience of ringing the opening bell at Nasdaq, break down how Strive paid off its debt, and explore just how large this opportunity could become. Finally, they unpack the infrastructure operating behind the scenes and how Bitcoin could play a major role in Strive’s future. Here's the latest with Tim Kotzman, Matt Cole, Jeff Walton, and Ben Werkman. 0:00 - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate 2:00 - Strive: The Daily Dividend Company 6:02 - Ringing The Opening Bell at Nasdaq 24:20 - How Strive Paid Off Its Debt 27:30 - How Big Is This Idea? 41:51 - The Infrastructure Behind The Scenes 47:30 - How Bitcoin Will Be Involved In Strive’s Future
The Hurdle Rate Podcast119,020 views • 26 days ago
Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate. Episode 55: A Structural Shift The crew is back this week discussing Digital Credit’s big month and what it signals for markets. They then explore capital flows, before rethinking credit in today’s environment and wrapping with a discussion on the end of the 60/40 portfolio. Here's the latest with Tim Kotzman, Matt Cole, Jeff Walton, and Ben Werkman. 0:30 - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate 2:00 - Digital Credit’s Big Month 18:35 - Capital Flows 27:20 - Rethinking Credit 43:07 - The End of the 60/40 Portfolio
The Hurdle Rate Podcast132,332 views • 2 months ago
Welcome back to The Hurdle Rate. Episode 45: Preferred Equity Demand The crew is back to discuss preferred equity and potential systemic risk to Bitcoin, the Strive + Semler M&A transaction being the first in Bitcoin treasuries, the IBIT Bitcoin covered call ETF, gold and silver price action, what Japan is saying to the world right now, and Bitcoin in an action-packed 2026. Here's the latest with Tim Kotzman, Matt Cole, Jeff Walton and Ben Werkman 0:30 - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate 1:10 - Does the Preferred Equity Present a Systemic Risk to Bitcoin? 22:12 - Strive + Semler: The First M&A Transaction in Bitcoin Treasuries 34:00 - IBIT Bitcoin Covered Call ETF 42:21 - Gold & Silver Price Action 48:00 - What is Japan Saying to the World Right Now? 59:24 - Bitcoin in an Action-Packed 2026
The Hurdle Rate Podcast211,091 views • 4 months ago
Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate. Episode 51: A Digital Credit Treasury The crew is back this week and focuses primarily on an update around Strive ASST & SATA, breaking down the latest developments. They also touch on Strategy’s latest buy and what it could signal. Here's the latest with Tim Kotzman, Matt Cole, Jeff Walton and Ben Werkman . 0:00 - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate 0:36 - Strive ASST & SATA Update 49:14 - Strategy’s Latest Buy
The Hurdle Rate Podcast126,496 views • 2 months ago
Welcome back to The Hurdle Rate Podcast. Episode 33: Credit Ratings for Digital Capital. The crew is back covering Strategy's credit rating, how this could impact the insurance industry, interest coverage ration and industry credit ratings, what it will take for Bitcoin Treasury Company credit ratings to go higher, Mike Alfred, big volumes, and more. Here's the latest with Matt Cole, Jeff Walton, and Tim Kotzman. 0:30 - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate 1:00 - Strategy Gets a Credit Rating 13:13 - How This Will Impact the Insurance Industry 22:20 - Interest Coverage Ratio and Industry Credit Ratings 27:53 - What Will It Take for Bitcoin Treasury Companies Credit Ratings to Go Higher? 44:38 - Mike Alfred, Big Volumes, and What It All Means 51:48 - US China Trade Deal and Other Macro Tailwinds
The Hurdle Rate Podcast240,802 views • 7 months ago
Welcome back to The Bitcoin Treasuries Podcast. Episode 21: The Intelligent Leverage Trade: Winter Isn't Coming Back. The crew is back with the latest on the Strategy earnings call recap, ATM adjustment, Bitcoin per share, leverage ratios and more. Here's the Hurdle Rate for the week of August 4, 2025 with , Matt Cole, Jeff Walton and Tim Kotzman. 0:00 - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate 1:34 - Recapping MSTR Earnings Call 9:49 - Strategy’s ATM Adjustment 21:00 - MSTR’s Bitcoin Per Share 30:03 - Only Look at Leverage Ratio 45:08 - Could Bitcoin Treasury Companies Lead to the Next Bear Market?
The Hurdle Rate Podcast179,396 views • 10 months ago
Welcome back to The Hurdle Rate. Episode 7: Fully Torqued Bitcoin. The crew is back with analysis from the Strategy earnings call and a deep dive on the seniority and volatility of Strategy's BTC-backed securities, using BTC risk for credit analysis, Strategy liabilities and capital structure, BTC Torque, and more. Here's the latest with Jeff Walton, Matt Cole, Tim Kotzman and Ben Werkman. 0:30 - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate 0:50 - Strategy earnings call recap 1:59 - 42/42 Capital Raising Plan 12:03 - Permanent Leverage without Refinancing Risk 12:39 Seniority & Volatility of Strategy’s BTC-Backed Securities 17:58 - Using BTC Risk for Credit Analysis 23:49 - Strategy Liabilities and Capital Structure 34:13 - BTC Torque 40:59 - Credit Comparison of Strategy products 45:34 -Closing thoughts and looking ahead to Orlando
The Hurdle Rate Podcast169,493 views • 1 year ago
Welcome to The Hurdle Rate Podcast! Matt Cole, , Jeff Walton & Tim Kotzman dive into Bitcoin, energy, treasury management, markets, macro, AI and more. Bitcoin is the hurdle rate for capital deployment, but there is substantial depth to that statement that we endeavor to explore. Here's episode 1 of The Hurdle Rate Podcast. 0:20 - Welcome to The Hurdle Rate 1:17 - Meet Matt Cole 3:12 - Meet Ben Werkman 4:48 - Meet Jeff Walton 6:29 - What does the Hurdle Rate mean in this current environment? 25:44 - Is Bitcoin the Hurdle Rate? 1:07:03 - Which AI tools are the guys using? 1:24:30 - Tariff talk 1:36:47 - What will happen with inflation?
The Hurdle Rate Podcast112,685 views • 1 year ago
Welcome back to The Hurdle Rate. Episode 46: Build The Structure The crew is back to unpack Kevin Warsh as Fed Chair, Clawdbots & Moltbook, and the pref-only model and digital risk—plus a separate discussion on Bitcoin as a term asset and what a potential supercycle could mean. Here's the latest with Tim Kotzman , Matt Cole, Jeff Walton and Ben Werkman. 00:30 – Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate 01:35 – Kevin Warsh Named Fed Chair 25:08 – Clawdbots & Moltbook 32:40 – The Pref Only Model & Digital Risk 44:35 – Bitcoin as a Term Asset & What a Supercycle Means
The Hurdle Rate Podcast36,875 views • 4 months ago
Welcome back to The Hurdle Rate Podcast. Episode 3 - Negotiating with Penguins. This week we discuss deficit based tariffs, the US workforce, Universal Basic Income, volatility in the market, penguins, AI, and more. Here's the latest with Matt Cole, Ben Werkman, Jeff Walton and Tim Kotzman. 0:30 - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate 1:20 - Tariffs are based on deficits, right? 21:18 - What position is the US workforce in to absorb these changes? 31:10 - Universal Basic Income 39:40 - Should we expect more volatility in the market? 423:05 - How does all of this impact Bitcoin? 51:59 - What is the path out of this? Episode 3 on YouTube:
The Hurdle Rate Podcast72,808 views • 1 year ago
Welcome back to The Hurdle Rate. Episode 9: A Movement Has Started. The hurdle rate crew is back to cover the latest in the Bitcoin Treasury space. Matt Cole, Ben Werkman, Jeff Walton and Tim Kotzman discuss being bold and having courage, why retail investors may understand the Strategy playbook better than institutions, what the main themes will be for investors to learn about, and more. Here's the latest with Tim, Jeff, Ben and Matt. 0:30 - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate 2:44 - The latest in the Bitcoin Treasury space 12:42 - Being bold and having courage 28:30 - Why are retail investors understanding Strategy’s playbook better than institutions? 35:16 - What will be the main themes for investors to learn about? 49:30 - Closing thoughts
The Hurdle Rate Podcast59,204 views • 1 year ago
Welcome back to The Hurdle Rate. Episode 47: A Time To Build The crew is back with a wide-ranging breakdown of the week’s biggest themes. They discuss what’s happening on the ground at Bitcoin Investor Week in NYC, then dive into the ongoing debate around bull versus bear markets and whether the market has finally found a bottom. The episode wraps with a discussion of Strategy’s latest earnings call and what it signals going forward. Here’s the latest with Tim Kotzman , Matt Cole , Ben Werkman and Joe Burnett, MSBA 0:30 - Welcome Back to The Hurdle Rate 2:20 - Bitcoin Investor Week in NYC 10:20 - Bull vs Bear Markets 28:30 - Is the Bottom In? 42:10 - Strategy’s Earnings Call
The Hurdle Rate Podcast23,179 views • 4 months ago
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