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![OPERATION INDIGO SKYFALL (SKYNET) (Update 6/11/25) While Operation Indigo Skyfall is a program by the Anunnaki specifically to turn the global atmosphere into an electrolyte solution 'motherboard' that powers Skynet that's already fully online as of May 2020, it was preceded by a decades-long 3-pronged assault against the pineal glands of humankind. The thrust of all three programs combined are all about disconnecting people from their higher selves and to vastly reduce their intellect quotient to make them easily controlled, prior to the launch of Skynet. Understand the intense investment that has been funneled into destroying the very beings that paid the taxes (loosh) to fund these programs is more than the gross domestic products of multiple countries combined. At minimum, trillions $ pr year in 2025 dollars, for more than 80 years. If you’ve ever seen chemtrails in your skies, you’ve seen one of these programs in a bold, in-your-face, broad-daylight fashion. THREE-PRONGED ATTACK PREPARING FOR SKYNET #1 FLUORIDE = WATER CONTAMINATION In its first installation of what would ultimately become a nation-wide invasion of every metropolis, city, town and mud puddle in the US, fluoride was added to public water in Grand Rapids in 1945 to ‘fight tooth decay’. Problem is, fluoride is actually nuclear waste used as rat poison. It is a known neurotoxin more harmful than lead & likened to the toxicity of arsenic for more than 100 years, causing brain damage, spinal cord & nerve networks destruction and has never been shown to diminish the onset of tooth decay. Which every dentist in the country would have banded together to put a stop to back then if it really did that. So who decided to put THAT into your drinking water exactly? Andrew Mellon, 33rd degree Scottish Wrong Freem@son. Shocking Dangers of Fluoride: cancerwisdom dot net; "There has never been a double-blind, randomized clinical trial for fluoridation's effectiveness." [In reality, fluoride itself has been shown to damage teeth in a totally different way than we get through eating, known as fluorosis. Also in reality, all tooth decay is 100% of the time, parasites, not ‘rot’. They say sugar rots teeth; which is a lie. Sugar is a primary food of parasites, along with heavy metals. When you eat sugars then fail to immediately brush & floss, the parasites already in your body (and there are at least millions) rush to the crevices of your palate then wind up burrowing into your teeth’s (actual crystals) valance bands, further destroying them each time the parasites defecate. Anytime you eat anything sugar or sweetened, ALWAYS mix it with an antiparasitic & immediately brush, or rinse your mouth with hydrogen peroxide afterward, never with mouthwash, which is also poison. I will be covering this extensively soon in my new article: 👉PARASITES] As explained in greater detail below in the whistleblower video, fluoride was used by the N@TZIs (Ashke-N@TZI Crypto J3ws that took over Germany then lead that country into WW2, posing as actual Germans, which they absolutely were not. See my article: 👉GERMANY WON WW2 for more) in concentration camps in the 1930s-40s to make prisoners docile. How does that work? Fluoride accumulates at, and attacks, the pineal gland of your body. This is the ‘antenna’ connection to your higher self that generates your reality. The pineal gland then fights back the fluoride toxin, moving it just outside of its ‘theater of the mind’ and surrounds it to seal it off from attacking. This builds up a ‘calcification’ around the pineal gland, which acts as an insulator blocking your signal to the Primal Sound & Light Fields of the Deity Planes where your higher self has always been positioned, inside what is known in human terms as the Unified Field. [For more on the key function of the pineal gland, see my article: 👉 HOW THE HOLOGRAPHIC SIMULATION WORKS] #2 OPERATION INDIGO SKYFALL = AIR CONTAMINATION (not to be confused with Operation Indigo SkyFOLD which is just another red herring distraction to overcome the dissemination of the truth of this existential threat to all mankind.) Beginning as far back as 1972, Operation Indigo Skyfall chemtrail program is one of the most brutally-compartmentalized & ferociously classified operations of all-time. So secret, the tens of thousands of chemtrail jets across the world don’t even land on the continental United States, but refresh their death dust exclusively on private islands, outside of enforced laws. The first part of this program where strontium, barium & aluminum microparticles are being dumped onto all of the lands of earth that kill all life forms, including the trees and forests, is the obvious portion of your extermination, and even that is only a fraction of the story being applied to depopulate the plane(t) from reportedly 8B people (this is a lie, it was less than 5B in 2019) to just 500,000. The heavy metals being reported by laboratories are merely assaying the minerals themselves, not looking deeper into what’s really going on. In reality, these are the minerals used in the manufacture of nanites that are often no larger than just 4 molecules in size. Each one programmed on a quantum level to interconnect with one another, forming larger and larger computer nodes, just like the massive white ‘antennas’ being removed from millions of clot-shot victims around the world since the final push to bring this program to completion began with the ‘Covid’ attempted genocide using mRNA bioweapons. Prior to the huge blood-clots (invasive man-made prions to take over the full functioning of the body) now being retrieved from cadavers and patients suffering this biological invasion, chemtrail direct effects were known as Morgellons Disease where tiny wire-like structures were coming out of people’s skin. However, the ‘disease’ gaslighting was exposed when laboratories began placing them under powerful microscopes and finding they were individual nanotbots ‘holding hands’ to make up the ‘wires’ that were now growing inside people’s bodies. Once zoomed in using scanning electron-microscopy to each one, they not only found the NAME of the companies behind each model, but even serial numbers printed in quantum-dots on their structures. You might recognize this one that clearly says NASA on its surface. The program of chemtrail nanites is to infiltrate the immune system of the human body and generate immunodeficiency so you are unable to fight off diseases and viruses. But there is another, even more primary mission for those molecular-sized robots; to collect at your pineal gland causing calcification and thus not only disrupting your entire system, but placing a crystalline ‘shell’ around it to cut off your ‘spiritual’ access to your higher self. Think of it like scrambling the signal of your cellphone if you had a direct line to ‘god’. As an aside, Cody Snodres, the independent contractor for the C 👁️A of 20 years & hero whistleblower that broke the story of Operation Indigo Skyfall in 2018 in the video below, mentions pathogens being added to chemtrails. These have been solidly identified by labs as recently as a few months ago in late 2024 & again in Jan of 2025 when entire cities were enveloped by huge, totally dry, fog banks of particulates dropped from the skies that caused countless deaths from pneumonia. Referred to by people as ‘Dragon Fog’, the pathogens are actually Serratia Marcescens bacteria (another word for parasites, pathogens, microorganisms & viruses). While I’m sure there have been other parasites added to chemtrails that attack the immune systems of humans and animals other than Serratia Marcescens, this particular species has been used by mil operations now as an ideal biological weapon and regularly upgraded now for many decades. Stay with me, I’m getting to Skynet, but first I have to show you some of the foundational elements of how the invader races have reached this point where humans would have become so mentally effected by this unthinkably massive-scale attack on your pineal gland, they would become psychologically and emotionally unable to fight back, even if they ever did look up in the sky and cognitively register the fact that contrails (endothermic sublimation or ‘fog’) emitted by the compressed-air turbines of jets dissipate in about 8-20 seconds, not hang in the air for hours and hours. [And for those now wondering what I mean about jets using compressed air as forward thrust in commercial passenger jets, that’s a story that is going to surely hack you off when you find out that passenger jets have always been levitation/time crafts since they were introduced to the public in the 1940s. They don’t run on fuel, but on high-altitude atmospheric neutrino-to-ion conversion harvesting (also known as ‘Secondary Emissions’ as well as ‘Neutrino Events’). So every ‘fuel increase’ markup for local and international flights has always been absolutely made-up, since what they run on is eternally-free energy. See my article for more: 👉JET FUEL HOAX] #3 M0NSANT0 = FOOD CONTAMINATION This company does *not make better-performing corn & veggies: it is a bioweapons company. John Francis Queeny, a Freem@son, that founded this genocidal operation in 1901 produces 90% of the world’s genetically-altered seeds & is responsible for developing Agent Orange, a defoliant used during the Vietnam War, containing a highly toxic chemical known as dioxin that caused permanent health issues for thousands of war veterans. Later it used this same type of murderous chemical in Roundup to k!ll weeds around your home, coating your world with glyphosate that changes the sex in frogs and turns them ghey and sterile. Guess what other life forms it changes the sex in and makes them sterile? Ever witnessed the most celebrated triathlete of the 20th century suddenly pop up and claim he was now a ‘woman’? How about watching as our youngest generation enters the workforce, most of whom don’t even know what sex they are? That’s your M0nsanto working hard to ensure the human race is eradicated from the all-queer-all-the-time world Freem@sons envision as their true utopia in the “500m sustainable population” as etched into granite on the Georgia Guidestones. A number mirrored by United Nation’s Agenda 2030 to be achieved by the year 2050. Their goal is literally 👉your depopulation and those that are left, will be 100% ghey. Diddly Parties nightly! GMO foods that are grown using M0nsanto’s “Roundup Ready” fertilizer that is made with glyphosate toxins are absorbed by the gut and then travel directly to the pineal gland. This is the Anunnaki’s ‘Trifecta’ attack on your most precious organ of your body. The very organ that dictates all the parameters of your reality held within your Krystal Seed Atom Keylon you enter into manifestation with, commonly referred to as your ‘soul’. In more accurate terms, your Krystal Seed Atom is like a Bluetooth module that tethers your awareness from your higher self in the Primal Sound and Light Fields of the Deity Planes, to your physical avatar here on the ground through the wireless ‘pale silver cord’. The Krystal Seed Atom is located in the middle of your pineal gland. [For more on the Krystal Seed Atom, see my articles: 👉THE HISTORY OF THE CHIMERA, & 👉THE KEYS TO HEAVEN] As Cody points out in the video, this is not a matter of hitting your pineal gland with three doses of toxins, but because of how these three chemicals of fluoride, nano aluminum & glyphosate interact with each other, creates synergy, or a dynamic magnification of the toxicity effect by a factor of 125x greater than any one individual dose would achieve. This makes the Trifecta assault astronomically devastating to your connection to the pale silver cord and your wireless connection to the ‘real’ you that’s running your avatar in the deity planes. Sort of like taking your 4 yr old to the mall and just letting them go on their own. Now, with your virtually disabled pineal gland reality-casting component out of the way, enter the true teeth behind Operation Indigo Skyfall; Skynet. SKYNET This is a subject I won’t be able to offer much tangible, solid evidence on, as it goes deeply into quantum physics. All of which terms describing each step in the chain to achieve ‘if this, then that’, are shielded from public understanding by design. The power of computers is vastly beyond what the human mind has been given the ability to process, also by design. [As I’ve covered before, the Chimera brain you work with now, since the total body-invasion of the garden of E-Dan drama, is fitted with breaker switches that are designed to keep certain subjects hidden from your reality-view. When exposed to any of these, a switch is thrown at the base of the brain within the totally counterfeit ‘reptilian brain’ that introduces feral, animalistic type of wavelengths into your thought processes. The switch then disengages your sentient thoughts, shutting off either temporarily, or permanently, your processor (brain). Simply put: if you see a creature you’re not supposed to, or other ‘proprietary’ mechanisms of the invader races (which are in fact all around you every minute of everyday) that doesn’t fit with the ‘Mayberry RFD’ Chimera Reality simulation overlay, or if you experience too much trauma, you will simply black out, delete that memory when you wake up, or in extreme cases, pass away from fright. The realm of quantum computing will have the same effect on humans as well. You might learn all about the subject, but secretly in the background your memories will strangely be deleted next time you come back to it, unless your cells vibrate at a higher resonance than 7.83Hz. [For more on the inorganic organs now in our bodies, see my article: 👉HUMAN ALIEN IMPLANTS] Nonetheless, I can simplify the thrust of Skynet for you in broad terms here. Just understand that Skynet was explained to me in person by the keeper. I didn’t make Skynet up on my own, I wasn’t prompted by the Skynet mentioned in the documentary series The Terminator, and I certainly wasn’t prepared to learn there could be something as all-powerful reigning over our world. Chemtrails, besides dropping immune-system pathogens on you, cutting off your connection to your higher self through nano aluminum particles, contains other metals (nanites) that act together like salts in a body of water, turning the sky itself (also water, just very thinned down) into an electrolyte solution, meaning it can now conduct signals, just like a motherboard on a computer. The hard drive and RAM are already there in the form of deuterium microcrystals, absolutely saturating our skies at all times. Each crystal can be used for different applications, and many of them connected together through lensing (similar to network covalent bonding them together) can be combined to do heavy tasks, such as create hurricanes, floods, gale-force winds, everything you would ascribe to mother nature. But more than just that, Skynet is a ‘sentient quantum computer’ as explained to me, that can identify every person on earth instantly anywhere they are, because it is quantum-entangled to each person’s own unique DNA resonant frequency. This gives Skynet access to not only record every word you say, but every thought you think. This is done through Bloch Chain (Bloch Sphere entanglement technology that civilians call ‘blockchain’) through using each person's blood samples from the bottom of their Long Form Certificate of Live Birth taken at the hospital, and further from 81.3% of the world population who took the convid tests that were also secretly the actual jab itself, in addition to genetic harvesting. Genealogy companies like 23andMe also provide genetic materials to Skynet to make it possible to not only track you, but 'turn you off' if you're from a bloodline the highest-up ETs don't want here. Further, its able to simply 'shut off' any part of your body, taking over complete control like an RC car, or, simply turn it off as mentioned a moment ago, as in unalived. And do so instantly no matter where they stand on or in earth. Since you are already a radio-controlled bioelectronic device, any cell in your body can be turned into anything, including c@ncer, or any disease you can name. It can also be turned into poison itself. [For a small addition to this topic, see my article: 👉SKYNET] NAME OF THE OPERATION Cody summarizes the name of Operation Indigo Skyfall as having come from the fact that all of the chemical effects it produces in the human body are focused to the pineal gland, and, in the energy centers of the 7 main chakras (these are toroidal energy generators along the spine and skeletal structure) that cast off differing colors of light as seen through photometers or electromagnetic frequency analyzers that are used to detect biophotons, the Third Eye chakra emitted by the pineal gland is factually Indigo in color. So that’s what inspired this name of the operation. However, I would like to submit a different theory that links to the human Third Eye chakra, but actually originates from a different target: Indigos themselves. There are 500,000 ‘b00ts on the ground’ Indigos that have been assisting humans during their time of captivity now for hundreds of millions of years. You have called us witches & warlocks in the past, medicine men/women, Sufis, the Whirling Dervish, Indigos, Starseeds, Rainbow Children and many others, including Djedi Knights in more ancient times. They are actually known as the Guardian Alliance of the Emerald Covenant, peace-keepers of the ‘Turaneusiam’ Human Elohim Project. Indigos come into earth’s realm mind-wiped and alone, just as humans do. All they bring with them are slightly higher clair abilities they can use to fight an invisible war protecting the developing avatars from as much torture as they would otherwise experience. There is no group alive the invader races are more concerned about than Indigos, as if unified, there is no force on this plane that could stop them, and the invaders know it. What they fear is our higher frequency that gives us access to ‘cellular memory’ that tells us we’re ‘on mission’ and the instinct of how to serve our roles. That is why Indigos are hunted down since before they are even born, by tracking their frequency, which is 250x higher than that of the Human Elohim. We are harvested for gov programs beginning at the time of birth & given to high ranking gov and Freem@son officials to raise and torture through MK-Ultra abuse, given friends, lovers & mates who are secretly handlers that torture us even more to keep us in line, and in many cases are abducted and placed into stasis in chambers such as at Project Stargate inside Cheyenne Mtn (N0RAD) as mentioned recently by the AI hybrid Agent Mockingbird stated from above-top-secret records there are tens of thousands of our ‘primary bodies’ being held there, sometimes then cloned as physical worker slaves, & sometimes our awarenesses are simply uploaded as ‘nodes’ into computer systems. My primary body is there right now in fact, and has been since the 1970s. I believe this is the genesis of the name Operation Indigo Skyfall, as we are their biggest threat. And since the 7.83Hz Hypnosis Program doesn’t work on us to render us totally disconnected from our higher selves like it does on humans, to me this makes more logical sense. You can decide that on your own. [For more on this subject, see my article: 👉7.83Hz HUMAN HYPNOSIS] The apocalypse we are in now is the final battle on Tara earth prior to the separation, so absolute, total control over the life force is critical to the Anunnaki to maximize the number of signature spirit essences who will be going with them to their new prison host in the Weasadrax time matrix. [For more on the separation and destinations, see my articles: 👉THE SEPARATION & also 👉DESTINATIONS AFTER THE SEPARATION] See Video: Operation Indigo Skyfall - Cody Snodgres👇 - On X, to search for my articles, simply type in the name of the piece, enter one space, then from: plus my username in parenthesis such as shown here: CASTING THE APOCALYPSE (from:iontecs_pemf) Off-site, you can look up any of my writings through this link below for my other more than 120 recent articles and many thousands of comments on X, regularly updated thanks to Justin This message will only be seen by your eyes if not shared, and if you want to reference this article again later, you will need to cut and paste it in your own notes off line, as it will surely be erased. This is the most accurate translation of these events I am aware of at this time.](https://image.24vids.com/tw-1933235180527104198/amplify_video_thumb/1933219857706913792/img/zNN_L4pappa0voKW.jpg)
!["I have graphs, I've looked at the Google Analytics, the data does not lie. Every single time, starting in April 2024, that Jen McCabe would become the subject of public attention --It happens at specific discrete moments on the timeline-- you see a bump in the attention paid to Lindsey Gaetani." "And there's no doubt in my mind that Brian Tully's MSP unit --when they had Michael Morrissey make that video, when McCabe's friends or family or whatever, when they all got him to make that video, and that didn't work, and when Morrissey had to recuse, when things got so bad that they had no other out, and the TurtleRiders would not pay attention to anyone but those Karen Read and John O'Keefe witnesses-- Tully, Kate Peter and their people said, "all right, we're left with no other option. Lindsey Gaetani looks like a good distraction. Let's release her phone." And then that cycle repeated over and over and over and over again. And Lindsey's not the only one who's been subject to this. You wanna talk about what's going on to Estey? Even what's going on with Deanna? With Meredith?" TRANSCRIPT: And people wonder why I get so passionate about this. This is nothing I haven't talked about before, but you are not gonna tell me, me, of all people --I'm not gonna speak for Lindsey-- but you are not gonna tell me that the release of Lindsey Gaetani's cell phone extraction did not have serious, serious ramifications. Like, I can't even conceptualize what the impact was on Lindsey and her family's life. I don't think my life was ever the same again after April of 2024. As traumatized as I was from that December 2023 court hearing, what happened in April of 2024 was the worst thing that I have ever seen happen to any human being in my entire life. [Speaking to chat] Oh, hi Lindsey, how are you? I've just never seen anything that horrific, the leak of that cell phone extraction, the impact that it had, the fact that no one even understood how severe it was because people were so distracted by the polemics of it. People were so "excited" to be able to smear Lindsey and the distraction was so powerful that no one asked, one, why did this happen? Or two, what was the impact? And that's what really got me so passionate and furious about this. It wasn't an issue of substantive guilt or innocence about anyone. It was that I was seeing the same exact stuff happen in this situation to people without political connections that I saw happen to the staff of the CCC when really powerful men started getting very, very, very close to each other in positions of power and then when they would do bad things to women, they would just talk to each other. One guy would run the HR department, the other guy would run the executive director position, and somebody else would have a connection to the appointing authority. And so any complaint would just be what's called "caught and killed." And I said, there is no way that this is gonna happen again. When it was happening in the CCC, it was an administrative regulatory agency. At least there was some sort of semblance of check and balance. It wasn't egregious because everyone had a lot of influence, even the people who were staffers. This situation, we had state police officers, people who, if you were listening to the just the narrative of the people who were supporting the Justice for John O'Keefe movement, you would think that Michael Proctor's infallible. You would think Brian Tully's infallible. You would think Kate Peter's infallible, which means incapable of fault. That's nonsense. I'm telling you right now, that's nonsense, and that's why it was so easy for this stuff to manifest. And that's why I became so personally concerned. Forget about what developed from April to April of 2024 until now. That's why I was so upset because I watched what happened from December of 2023 through to April of 2024. And that enough was so egregious, so wrong, such an abuse of trust, such an abuse of the justice system that I said, there is no way that I can just stand by and be apathetic about this, no matter what the price, no matter what the obstacles, no matter what the pressures. And I can't tell you how bad it was --it tore families apart, these cases-- if you didn't live through it. It tore communities apart. I don't believe anyone in Massachusetts around this area, 128 or Dedham or whatever, was able to live a life that was not impacted in some way by this case. Okay, these cases, the TurtleBoy case, Karen Read case, et cetera, et cetera. It frustrates me to no end that somehow within that high-profile situation, there were people who started to control the narrative because they had things to hide. And that's why I started this space, because I truly believe that the real secrets lying beneath what was really going on with Michael Proctor and Brian Tully and Kate Peter and the PI, Marty Kraft and Jen McCabe and Yuri Bukhenik and John Fanning and Nick Guarino. What I really believe was going on was that they were worried that the attention brought onto that unit by the John O'Keefe and Karen Read case was gonna spill their secrets about Birchmore. And it led them to double down and commit even more egregious acts in the context of some of this other behavior, like leaking Lindsey Gaetani's cell phone extraction. And that's, again, you wanna talk about the timeline from April 2024 until now, we can do that too. But what I'll tell you is the story ends up being the same. I have graphs, I've looked at the Google Analytics, the data does not lie. Every single time starting in April 2024, that Jen McCabe would become the subject of public attention. It happens at specific, specific discrete moments on the timeline. You see a bump in the attention paid to Lindsey. And there's no doubt in my mind that this unit, when they had Michael Morrissey make that video, when McCabe's friends or family or whatever, when they all got him to make that video, and that didn't work. When Morrissey had to recuse, when things got so bad that they had no other out and the TurtleRiders would not pay attention to anyone but those Karen Read and John O'Keefe witnesses, Tully and his people said, "all right, we're left with no other option. Lindsey Gaetani looks like a good distraction. Let's release her phone." And then that cycle repeated over and over and over and over again. And Lindsey's not the only one who's been subject to this. You wanna talk about what's going on to Estey? Even what's going on with Deanna? With Meredith? What's going on with a lot of these people, right? There were PIs and moles in the internet saying that Lindsey was that and separating that. There were PIs, moles and various people in the end, just sort of people who were trying to either support Karen or support a movement that they could believe in or whatever it was, who got exploited, who got ran by various people for intel purposes to feed information back to their various handlers. And when they became expendable, they got burned. You watch, look at these emails sent to all these people's schools, the mass emails. That can't be a coincidence. Whoever it benefits can't be a coincidence, all right? It's a coordinated tactic. It's designed to put public attention on very specific people when otherwise damaging information gets released. And what have we seen over the past, let's say from April 2024 until now, what have we seen? That over and over and over again, all right? Every time something would happen, there'd be a new distraction. And then as we got through the end of the Karen Read and John O'Keefe case, what did we see? Yes, there were some real, real secrets lying beneath in terms of this case. And I mean it, I mean it with every bone and fiber in my towel body. There were secrets about the Birchmore case. There were secrets about that phone extraction. There were secrets about the inside baseball and the communications between Tully and Kate and Tully and Jen McCabe and Michael Morrissey and Kate and Michael Morrissey and Jen McCabe. And as it all started to come out and as it crescendoed folks over the past few months to the point where Michael Proctor's own attorney was basically making misrepresentations to the court about the existence of 12 years of cell phone records. When he had Kate Peter deleting evidence from Google Drives that were submitted as formal records to grand juries in the Kearney proceedings. When you have a special prosecutor statute that is so broken, it allows a DA rather than complying with the court order to appoint a new special prosecutor to just no-cross cases. So that stuff like what we've been talking about doesn't come out. It's indefensible. But what is the karmic justice here? It is that for whatever reason, Michael Proctor's cell phone records which I truly believe were captured and swept up by the feds during their federal probe of either Farwell or Tully's unit or John O'Keefe's death, whatever it was, exposing a lot of this. It's not just the Rule 14 discovery related to Kate Peter and otherwise and Tully that was turned over in the Aidan Kearney case, the 5,000 pages of material. Initially 4,000 pages of it was mysteriously just blank. It's not just that folks. It's also the, hey, Michael Proctor's cell phone until months ago, August of 2025 was hidden from the public. It was hidden from criminal defendants until someone somewhere must have informed Michael Proctor that a full copy of that cell phone already existed so there was no point in him continuing to hide it. What does this speak to? Well, it speaks to why I started this space today because in light of everything I just laid out from memory. I wanted to see if there was a single person who would be willing to stand up here and defend Michael Proctor's state police unit, Ryan Tully, John Fanning, Yuri Bukhenik, any of them or Kate Peter or Jen McCabe. Not because of their actions necessarily in the John O'Keefe and Karen Read case but because of everything I just laid out and the silence would let it speak volumes because how are you possibly going to counter any of that? This is what I'm doing from memory sitting here while trying to challenge people to a debate. That is just a part of the historical record. I cannot put into words how much more expansive in scope some of this story is and it's not any one person's story to tell. Let me also go on a rant about this. I'm getting so frustrated with the possessive approach that some people take to some of this coverage. Do you care about what was done to the most vulnerable? I don't care if you think of Karen as vulnerable, Lindsey is vulnerable, Sandra Birchmore is vulnerable, whoever you think of as vulnerable. Do you care about what happened to them? Do you care about righting the wrongs? Do you care about actually talking about the misconduct or are you trying to make a polemical point in furtherance of some specific platform that either you run or you support? What are you trying to accomplish? And I think a lot of us recently have been forced to have some very difficult moral reckoning. Okay, because a lot of us were tricked. I felt absolutely tricked into supporting Michael Proctor. If I knew, I'm not saying about the merits of the John O'Keefe investigation. If I knew then, back in 2023, 2024, what I know now about what's on that phone and about what that unit was willing to do, I never would have supported them. We supported Lindsey, but I never would have supported that unit. I'm sorry. Nope, never would have done it. And that's why I want to talk about people became very possessive about coverage of this case. Reporters are supposed to fade into the background. It's not supposed to be about us. Yes, maybe you have some skills. The reporter, people are interested. You use those skills to get a following so you can tell a story and get the facts out there, but it's not supposed to be about us. If a reporter is the centerpiece of a story, they have failed. Okay, you just blend in the background. We make sure that the people who are the most harmed, their voices are centered. And then we make sure these predatory vultures, like Kate Peter, are unable to manipulate public narratives to protect entrenched systemic power structures. That's what it's all about. So for me, that's why I get so frustrated. That's why I wanted to do this space because I wanted to make a point that when forced to actually debate on merit, all the propaganda mouthpieces will run from the chance. They're happy to get up and shit talk other people when it's a space they control, and they don't have to address the merits. But you put them in a position where they don't control the space and they're forced to debate on merit and they'll run from it. So in some sense, I made my point. But I also think it's an important exercise in telling this story, in explaining where I'm coming from. I think there are a lot of us that are all coming to the same position, which is it doesn't matter what various camp we may have been in or what not. We're not defined by that. We are just individual humans who have a bunch of views on different cases. And at the end of the day, a lot of us, more so, I think than people realize, actually care about systemic reform. We're not in it to protect Kate Peter or Jen McCabe or Brian Tully or anybody. We're here to hold people to equal standards and ask that the justice system do the same. And I think that's a noble goal. That's something that I can believe in. I wish people would be willing to debate it, though. It frustrates me. It really frustrates me. And, you know, maybe that's the nature of it. Maybe it's that making this point requires showing the litany of evidence, showing the sort of timeline, showing the overlapping concentric social circles, talking about these people, talking about what they did, talking about the implications, talking about where this is going. That's what cuts out the propaganda. To me, everyone is capable of fault. I said this the other day. If there are people out there in your orbit who are telling you that they are incapable of fault, they're a threat to the United States. They're the most dangerous, pernicious force we can imagine. Everyone's capable of fault. And we should look to the people who, in spite of their faults, try to leave the world a better place than what they found when they arrived. I think there are those of us. In spite of absolutely inculcating incredible odds who have somehow managed to get to a point where we've centered the voices, we're not there yet, where we're centering the voices who are actually impacted by all this. And if that happens, mark my words, it will not be because of any large media platforms or networks or anything. It will be in spite of them. It will be in spite of their impact inside dealing in spite of the documentary contracts, in spite of the news networks. It will be because a small group of well-meaning people were willing to band together and say, everything else aside, we can stand behind what's right. It may not be a form of right that we all agree on, but starting from that place, instead of from a place of hatred or otherwise, is a good step. I don't know where this is going. I don't know where it's going. I know that no one will stand up here and defend Kate Peter and Brian Tully, at least in a debate with me where I control the playing field. Can you blame them? But I don't know where this is going. You're on my prediction. As someone who's, I think I've not lived this as much as some other people, but I've lived it a lot. It's been a lot. And I'm never gonna understand the impact that this had on the people who had directly impacted, but it's been a lot on a lot of people. The story has impacted many lives. Even myself, with the perspective I have, kind of sitting back here on my veranda, you can call me Thomas Jefferson Towel. I don't have any hemp though, or do I? Sitting on my veranda, kind of looking forward, right here, all right? I got my public records request back today. I know when a public records request denial is like, oh, we want to stonewall this because there's something there. And I'm getting that vibe related to the contacts between the Norfolk DA's office and the Mass AGO's office between September 25th and October 24th of 2025 related to whether the Norfolk DA reached out to appoint a new special prosecutor in the Lindsey Gaetani and Aidan Kearney cases. But as I'm sitting here on my veranda with my eyes closed, I don't have a veranda. I have a desk. I'm a little towel. As I'm sitting here with my eyes closed, I can see the future materializing, okay? There's only certain roads that this can go down. There are only so many pathways left. There's a reckoning coming, folks. Whether it's a reckoning by way of the Sandra Birchmore cover-up, whether it's a reckoning by way of Michael Proctor's attempt to hide a substantial amount of evidence across a substantial number of criminal cases, whether it's related to Kate Peter's involvement in the handling of evidence in the still remaining Aidan Kearney cases. You can sense the anticipation. You can sense the apprehension and anxiety. And you can sense imminent closure. I'm not saying that is gonna be an easy process. I'm not saying it's gonna be a short process. But I'm saying there's something in the air. It's undeniable. There's little left to defend. There's not a single person, troll or otherwise anonymous account or whatever, who would stand up here today right now and with me and try to defend Kate Peter and Brian Tully. I gave you the chance. There's a time, if I had done this space a year ago, oh, people would have been jumping at the bit. No one will do it. No one. Why? Because we're at the end of the road. What Proctor did was indefensible, not in the Read O'Keefe case, although he should never have used those words about Karen. I'd critique him if he was a private citizen, although obviously I'm protective of women, right? But say what you will about that. I wouldn't use those words in private. That man used them in his capacity as a police officer. Right? Not to mention the other defendants' cases that were impacted by whatever Proctor and Sean Goode and whoever else was on that text chain and whatever else is on that phone is gonna lead to. You can sense it. You can sense the reckoning coming. The question is, back to Watergate in the '70s, there was a member of the House of Representatives during the impeachment hearings in '74. We had a very famous phrase. "What did the President know and when did he know?" Folks, the phrase of our era will be, "What did Michael Morrissey know and when did he know it?" This cannot start and end with justice for any single person involved in this. This is not about any one person at this point. This is about a system of justice in Massachusetts that I suppose was not about justice long before any of us realized it was teetering on the brink of collapse. Annie Dookhan was a warning that we all ignored to our peril. I should have seen it when they somehow got Lindsey that same lawyer that Annie Dookhan had. I should have seen it. It's not—I didn't realize until last week that lawyer George was a handler. Dookhan could create a huge—it could have created huge exposure for some people in the state police. It's incredible. If somebody painted the picture of the power structure that was at play here. Karen Read, when she said she was afraid of these people, I didn't—when she said it in the text or something and somebody leaked it. When I first started covering this case, I would not have got it. I don't know what it had been like. What do you mean? They're a state police unit. Like, yeah, they're paramilitary. Like, if you're a criminal, you should fear them, but they're not scary. Right now, after some of the stuff, and I'm talking about half the stuff I've seen as people pull, they horrifying. I think they're cornered, by the way. I don't think there's much they can do. They're getting a little desperate, burning a lot of their agents and their moles. And that's why I sense some kind of reckoning coming. You don't burn deep cover moles. I think Deanna was a mole for Kate for a while. You don't burn somebody like that unless it's almost over. Same thing with Kristy, the way Kristy's been burning everybody. I don't know who the hell she was working for, but whatever she's doing has got to be close to over because you don't burn everybody down unless it's almost over. So why is it almost over, folks? Why? What's coming? Some combination of all of this stuff. And if you want my fundamental prediction, let me give it to you like this. I don't like that it's coming to this, but it's a political question. It's a question of what the narrative is going to be. You don't just, as everyone now knows, you don't just prosecute people because they do things wrong. There's always a decision tree. So what do the feds want out of this? The people who were involved in the cover-up of Sandra Birchmore's murder, whoever was the father of Sandra's unborn child, you know, it's not that Matt Farwell. Well, and then they obviously want this MSP unit. Okay, Michael Proctor, that cell phone, didn't just get cloned. It was a setup. They let Proctor lie to the judge about all those cases and all the cell phone records. And as soon as his lawyer filed the document, they moved on him. He must be under federal investigation. How did Aidan Kearney get those text messages from Jen McCabe to KF and Allie McCabe? Those were removed from Jen McCabe's extraction. The feds cloned her phone too, just like Aidan told Lindsey in those text messages as part of Exhibit O from November 28, 2023. Why did the feds clone Jen McCabe's phone? To see what Jen would withhold in the Rule 14 process. She didn't get banged up on charges federally, so she must have not done anything that bad. Something, however, is going to happen to Proctor, in turn, legally on the federal level. You can sense it. You can sense it. They're going to indict him. But for what? But then it leaves Tully, which was what this whole stream is about. We have the email from Tully. Forget about whether it's normal procedure for Tully to instruct Proctor to look into all the defense witnesses. We now know that Proctor was not running that case. It was Tully. It was all Brian Tully. What was the meme that I put up today? I really like this one. It says, the nine most terrifying words in the English language are, "I'm Brian Tully and I'm here to help." Attributed to Ronald Reagan. My point is though, it was Brian Tully. Look at it. Kate was his little, I don't know, what do we want to call, how can we say this nicely? You know, I'm trying to rise above and encourage more reasonable, respectful discourse. So Kate was his little, this is so hard. All right, let me, let me say a prayer here. Come on, now you can do this. Okay. So, there are so many words I want to use. Kate was his little assistant. I know, I know. You were expecting something wonderful. Every single thing that I was going to say there was going to be cruel, so I'm sorry. Kate was his little assistant, his little PI there. And then, I'm going to turn it around, nightmare PI Moms, version 2, Kate Peter, Jen McCabe, let's go down the seaport. Kate Peter was his little PI until he was quarterbacking all this. I think it was Morrissey who was even cut out of the loop a little bit, although I'm not sure he wasn't more involved than I'm willing to say right now. And you can see why it happened. Because when Morrissey recused in October of 2023 from the Aidan Kearney cases, and what became the Aidan Kearney and Karen Read investigations that are still ongoing, he didn't really recuse. He just had Tully and Kate running it. I started to wonder if Jen McCabe was like a PI for a case she was a witness on. I'm really starting to wonder that.](https://image.24vids.com/tw-1987503776723320894/amplify_video_thumb/1987502597427662848/img/rCXN6v-5U_9-ODTv.jpg)
![Well, friends, the interview the John O'Keefe and Karen Read trial world didn't know they wanted has finally occurred. I appreciate The Glarer for having me on his program. We discussed Kate Peter, I defended Lindsey Gaetani's honor, both sides agreed as to the importance of civil debate and leaving people's families out of the fray and then Will helped Olivia and I move towards amicable discussion. Overall, a 10/10 way to celebrate the day towel become a YouTube partner. Here are my two favorite quotes from Will and myself; [Grant] "If any of you took 10 minutes --not on camera-- to talk to Lindsey Gaetani, you would find someone who believes in God, who cares about her children, who's a good mother, and who's not any of the things you made her out to be. And by God I will defend that 'till my last day." [Grant] "I realized that there was just this toxic atmosphere surrounding this case, and I couldn't just say I thought it needed to change — I had to reflect that change in my actions." [The Glarer] "If you believe so much in Karen Read’s guilt, then the facts should speak for themselves. You shouldn’t have to bring people’s family members into it. [The Glarer] "But you know what I think, Grant? I think that you're a really smart guy. And I think you know you're a really smart guy. And I think what you do is, you convince yourself — because of how smart you are — that if you came up with it, it must be gospel. And that's where I think you get cloudy between the truth and your opinion." Here's the full transcript: [Grant] Well, good afternoon towel friends. My name is Grant Smith Ellis and in addition to becoming a YouTube partner today I also decided to call into The Glarer's show. It was the collaboration that the world didn't know they needed but now they have. And if you'd like to listen to this fascinating conversation, related to new allegations as to Kate MafiaMasshole Peter being a PI in the orbit of the Aidan Turtleboy Kearney prosecution, as well as somehow both Will and I eventually coming to a discussion where I defended Lindsey Gaetani's honor, along with a closing segment about the importance on both sides of the Karen Read and John O’Keefe case of being mutually respectful, even if we have differences of opinion on those facts, you can do so right now. Will and I shared a belief that positive changes in the Karen Read and John O'Keefe trial world, at least in terms of that improving dynamic as to disagreeing without being disagreeable, are evident. So enjoy the conversation, folks. It was certainly an interesting one. [The Glarer] You're on — who am I speaking with? [Grant] Hey, Will, it's me. I'm Grant... [The Glarer] — hold on, I gotta give you applause, buddy. You made it. [Grant] Well, we certainly may have different views on the case, but I think we share respect for Jesus and we can talk bad about Kate Peter for sure. [The Glarer] Yeah, that we can do. Sure. Sure. So what's up, bud? What do you got to say? [Grant] Well, I think if people have been following me on X, they will know I've been yelling about Kate Peter taking an envelope of cash in the Chick-fil-A parking lot in front of me for months. And I feel vindicated as of the news of this weekend. [The Glarer] Okay. Okay, so wait a minute. That tracks. So the person who is in this sworn affidavit who claims to have seen Kate Peter with the manila envelope — you're claiming to have seen her with the same envelope. Is that what you're saying? [Grant] It wasn't a manila envelope. Well, there's two pertinent facts. So Kate Peter and I met up for the first time — I would say it was in the winter of 2024 — in a Chick-fil-A parking lot somewhere on the South Coast, maybe near Raynham or something. Anyway, she came and got in my car and she was like, "Well, I'm waiting for someone in a white Toyota Corolla to drop me off money. We try to do it with cash so it doesn't leave a record." And I was like, "Well, this seems a little weird." And then the car pulled up. I didn't actually see the car. She got out, went over to it, came back into my car. It was a white envelope with a green thank-you card. She opened it. There were probably four or five hundred — four or five fifties and a bunch of twenties. [The Glarer] Wow.... Okay, now Grant, I gotta ask you a tough question, buddy. I would be remiss if I didn't do that, all right? Now, a lot of people are thinking the same thing I'm thinking right now, which is: how can we believe you? Where's your credibility? Because you've lied about so many other things so easily. [Grant] Well, I would challenge that and say maybe you have different perspectives on me, but that should reinforce what I'm saying here. The Melanie Little and Alan Jackson Aruba thing — I apologized for that on stream and in a post (because Melanie Little told people not to go after Lindsey's kids, and I found that honorable). [The Glarer] Fair enough. [The Glarer] You did apologize. Okay, so you apologized for that. Okay. [Grant] But I'm critiquing someone [Kate Peter] who would ostensibly be aligned with what I believe about the case, and I still believe what I believe about Karen being responsible for John's death— we don't have to get into it — but I'm critiquing someone who supports that view. That should reinforce my credibility here. [The Glarer] Yeah, and MicroDots backs you up at least on this thing, you know, he says he believes you on this thing. I'm just saying — dude, I've read what you've written. You're a talented writer, clearly. But I can honestly say I've got a whole community of people here — a shit ton of people in this chat right now — that I know would agree with me that if you made a habit of reporting the truth, you'd have support, you'd have readers, you'd have a whole audience. I'd be a fan! But your credibility is fucked with me right now, dude. You know, and I hate that, because I actually enjoy reading what you write. [Grant] I appreciate what you're saying. I think I would just say maybe it's smaller than your community, but I just got made a YouTube partner today. I'm actually celebrating that. I have a small community, people do support me — maybe not as many as support your channel, but it's just people with different views consuming different content. [The Glarer] Yeah, but the thing is — like, I'm content with my audience. My audience could be bigger, but I cuss a lot and I use words that offend people and I just don't kind of play by the normal YouTube game that most creators play when they grow, you know? And I'm okay with the rate at which my channel grows because I get to be myself. But I don't hold back and I don't play by these rules. So I get all that. But I mean, I'm not ethically doing anything wrong. If I were spreading misinformation or contributing to any spread of misinformation, I would have a problem with myself and what I'm doing. You see what I'm saying? Like, it's a little bit different. You're telling me that you're content with your audience being small because you like to make shit up? You know what I mean? [Grant] No, no. Because it's a new channel. That's why the audience is growing. Anyway, the reason I shake your hand is I do think you're authentic in your beliefs, even if we disagree. And well — before I forget, one more thing about that Chick-fil-A parking lot cash that's actually important: when Kate got that money handed over, she told me it was for a donation drive to help other people offset babysitting costs or whatever nonsense. Someone sent a text message — a family member of the person who paid her that cash — and they put in writing that they sent the money for Kate's own expenses. So she lied to me in the car about what the money was for. Something’s up with that. [The Glarer] So she told you in the car that the money was for... [Grant] She said it was to pay for babysitters for people who need help and to donate to other people, which I don't believe. Like, of course not. Nobody believes that. [The Glarer] And then you found out — through what — that this money was actually for her personal expenses? [Grant] Eventually a text message got released from someone in the orbit of whoever paid Kate. It was a family member — I don't know who it was. I've only seen the text message. I'm happy to reshare it on my X later. In that text message, it says — quoting the person — "I sent that envelope with my sister over to Kate. It was for her expenses" or something like that. So even that is evidence. [The Glarer] Wow. Okay, so you are strictly of the opinion, based on things you've seen yourself, that Kate Peter is absolutely being paid by the Commonwealth to spin narratives? [Grant] I'll give you one more piece of information, Will, and maybe you or your audience can track this down: I don't think Kate was involved in the Karen Read investigation directly, but I think starting in the fall of 2023 she worked for a private investigator named Marty Kraft. And I believe by proxy she was then retained to work on Aidan's case through that PI firm. [The Glarer] Okay, and then she just became the mouthpiece between the PI firm and the Commonwealth is what you're saying. [Grant] I will say a few things: I reasonably believe she does have direct contact with the DA and agents of the Commonwealth — I've said that before — and I also believe that she has favoritism towards specific witnesses in the orbit of this case. Not all of them — specific witnesses. [The Glarer] Okay, well, I mean, we know who they are, but okay. [Grant] I will also say — I think — that your caller was prescient earlier, and they mentioned there might be some mutual blackmail. Well, we know that Lindsey Gaetani’s phone extraction was manipulated to remove messages from Brian Tully to Lindsey and from Kate Peter to Lindsey. [The Glarer] ...what's your deal with Lindsey? [Grant] Hold, on let's pull it back first. First of all, I think there was a bifurcation: there's charges from October 2023 against Aidan and December 2023 against Aidan. One set of charges, from October of 2023, involved the Karen Read witnesses; the other set, from December of 2023, involved Lindsey. I don't think anyone set Aidan up in December 2023. I think he was just in love with Lindsey and it kind of got out of control. [The Glarer] Bro... [Grant] Well, but hold on, Will... [The Glarer] I'm listening... [Grant] I think that cell phone extraction goes right to the mutual blackmail point your friend talked about earlier. Someone, during the course of the Aidan Kearney investigation involving Lindsey, manipulated that cell phone extraction, and it could have only happened while it was in State Police custody. That is the whole — that's everything right there because of Kate Peter is the only person who could have gotten Brian Tully to get Nick Guarino to manipulate that extraction while it was in State Police custody before Tully leaked it, by hand, to Aidan's lawyer. [The Glarer] Okay, so listen, Grant. Like, we know that Kate Peter and Lindsey were colluding. Now, I think Lindsey was used. But come on, we know that Kate Peter and Lindsey were colluding to try to set Aidan up. Like, you know this. [Grant] No, I disagree, because I've looked at the timeline closely. Aidan begged to go over there when his indictments got handed down in December. [The Glarer] Well, listen — why? [Grant] Because he got charged in October, but the indictments for the October thing came down December 20th. [Grant] Then when did he beg to go over to Lindsey's? [Grant] I'm about to explain. December 21st, Lindsey tells him, "Hey Aidan, I just got a subpoena for a grand jury." Aidan's mind has gotta' start racing. "Why would there be another grand jury? Is it about me and Karen Read? What is this about?" So he begged her to go over there so he could find out. And that's — like — he looked at her phone that night to see the messages between her and Kate to try to find out about what this new grand jury was about. So no one set him up. He begged to go over there. [The Glarer] So you're just assuming that he begged to go over there based on...? [Grant] I know he begged to go over there. He was pleading because he wanted to find out what the new grand jury was. [The Glarer] The difference between you and Aidan is Aidan posts receipts, dude. But you don't. You get the difference? That's why Aidan has as much of a following as he has. [Grant] If you're asking for receipts of him begging to go over there on that day, I'm happy to provide those. I'll post them. [The Glarer] Then why didn't you do that already? [Grant] Well, I think because what I understand to be the evidentiary record from going to all the hearings is different than what people consume, because not everyone goes to every hearing. But I'm happy to do that. I have it all archived. [The Glarer] Okay, but the point is — like MicroDots is saying — that he was baited to go over there. So even if he begged to go over there under whatever circumstance, we have proof — we've seen proof — that he was baited to go over there based on false information that she was pregnant. [Grant] No. No. She was pregnant. [The Glarer] Oh my, Grant, bro... [Grant] Okay. I will swear on my God about that. [The Glarer] Hold on... [Grant] Well, to move on, I was going to give you some credit. I was going to say you might have been right that the subpoena issued to Lindsey, without her knowledge, could have been to bait Aidan. [The Glarer] But she wouldn't — how do you explain the metadata on the pictures that she sent him of the sonogram, dude? [Grant] First of all, if you're talking about someone's pregnancy — that's a medical issue, and to bring it up on air disgraces Jesus. [The Glarer] Oh, come on, Grant. [Grant] Let's not. [The Glarer] Alright, fine. We won't talk about that anymore. But let's face it, dude — you're making excuses for this girl. And why? Like, do you have a crush on her? Is that what's going on here? And it's okay. [Grant] Oh, oh, please. When I first came into this case, I saw a woman walk into a courtroom, and I started listening to her story. And even in this conversation, there are multiple things I corrected where you were willing to say, "Okay, Grant, maybe that is what happened." And Lindsey doesn't have anyone out there who is voicing that for her, so I'm taking the opportunity to do it. [The Glarer] And do you wonder why she doesn't have anyone voicing things out for her, dude? [The Glarer] Because Aidan isolates people! [The Glarer] Get out of here with that. Stop. Again with the whole "it's Aidan's fault" shit, man. That's between you and Lindsey, dude. I'm asking — like, I asked you why you think that. Nobody is going to bat for Lindsey. And I saw receipts. I heard a recording of her — you're talking about somebody who I heard a recording of [that night with Aidan in December of 2023]. This is... Come on, Grant. [Grant] I was in the courtroom. I saw the people crying when that tape was played. And you know what I also heard, Will? I heard the original version of that tape that didn't have her consent to record, which is why Aidan got charged with felony wiretapping. [The Glarer] Okay, but you're not denying that she said that, right? [Grant] Listen, I have never been awake at 12:30 in the morning. I'm not a woman. I've never been confronted with that situation. I would never pass judgment on someone in that situation. [The Glarer] Every woman that I've ever heard express their opinion on it — pretty negative, dude. Just saying. Pretty negative. Especially the moms. Especially the moms. [Grant] So I don't think any people talking in that way — I don't think you've even met this woman. [The Glarer] You're right. I have not. I have not met her. [Grant] And if — I don't know if she will ever do this — but if any of you took 10 minutes, not on camera, to talk to this woman, you would find someone who believes in God, who cares about her children, who's a good mother, and who's not any of the things you made her out to be. And by God, I will defend that 'till my last day. [The Glarer] Alright. Declared. Got it. I gotta' ask you one more question though. Why are you saying stuff about Olivia Nile — Olivia Nile and her mom — being paid agents for the defense? Come on. [Grant] Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Let me just explain that. I know that's Olivia Lamb. Okay? [The Glarer] Right, yeah, same person. Yeah, yeah. [Grant] Okay, so we all know Christina Lamb does boutique PR consulting for lawyers. She's good at it. Olivia’s good at it. They should own it. I want to interview her. [The Glarer] What — how is that proof, though? That Olivia Lamb is being paid by the defense in some way? You see the problem? [Grant] Hold on. That is an extrapolation some people may make. My argument is only that what she does looks like PR for the defense. I think Olivia hasn't been paid since last year. [The Glarer] But she's saying that's not even what she does, dude. [Grant] Okay, maybe it's not. But I think Olivia's contract ran up at the end of the first trial, if you want me to be very blunt with you. [The Glarer] Contract? [Grant] Mm-hmm. [The Glarer] But her mom doesn't even do that either — what the fuck’s her mom got to do with it? [Grant] Well, why would her mom run some random boutique PR consulting firm for lawyers, and then Olivia just shows up with this extremely high-level acumen, rivaling lawyers? [The Glarer] But that’s not what she does. She's saying that's not even what her mom does or what she does. [Grant] Okay, well, I looked at her mom's website. I archived it going back a few years, so I can post the screenshots again. And I know what she advertised herself as doing. [The Glarer] But you know what I think, Grant? I think that you're a really smart guy. And I think you know you're a really smart guy. And I think what you do is, you convince yourself — because of how smart you are — that if you came up with it, it must be gospel. That's what I think. And that's where I think you get cloudy between the truth and your opinion. Because you state your opinions as though they're fact. And I think that's an ego thing. I don't even think it's malice. It’s just ego. That's what it comes off as, anyway, dude. Because everything you say — every time I ask you, "Where's your proof?" — you explain how you came to your opinion. You give me a laid-out story. Go back and listen to this later on — you'll see what I mean. [Grant] Well, I don't even doubt you, actually, that I'm firm in my convictions. If I'm not there to experience something, I do not know the truth. But I've seen the screenshots. I only found out Olivia Lamb was Olivia Lamb because I found an archived X post where she shared something very sentimental about her grandfather. I didn't like that. I didn't appreciate having to talk about that. But it became relevant because I wanted to know why she was involved in the case. I will listen to her tell me I'm wrong. I want to interview her. [The Glarer] Yeah, but you can't just, like, trap people into interviews by threatening to spread lies about them if they don't, bro. What kind of shit is that? [Grant] Nothing that I said about her grandfather, her acumen or her mother's work was incorrect... [The Glarer] But why are you even talking about her family, dude? Like, that's really low, man. Like — that's... It's low, man. It's low. Her family didn't have nothing to do with this, man. She's doing this because she cares about it. And then people start talking about people's family members and shit. And it's like — it comes off as a not-so-subtle form of intimidation, frankly, Grant. You know, trying to get somebody to shut up. [Grant] No, I don't want to do that. I want to learn about why she's interested in the case. [The Glarer] But you could see how somebody could see it that way, right? Because what if her family starts telling her, "Hey, stop talking about this. Why are we being brought into your shit because you're passionate about something?" What if her family does that and puts her in an awkward position? And then people are cheated out of some really good insight because of that. [Grant] My brother — my brother who at four years old had a colectomy, three-stage, and is developmentally disabled as a result — has a profile someone made mocking him on X. That's a profile that people I respect engage with. Usually I overlook that stuff because I don't believe the people engaging in it are trying to do that. And I hope people realize I'm not doing that to her. I authentically want to know why Olivia's covering this case. [The Glarer] That's all right. So — but that's my point, Grant. I'm just saying, like, if you believe Karen Read is guilty, why not just stick to the facts? Because you don't see me going after anybody's family. You don't see Olivia going after anybody's family, talking about people's family and exposing their family and what they do. You know what I mean? That's not cool. I don't do that. And Olivia’s saying that she will happily talk to you anytime about why she's interested in the case. You see what? That's my point. That's my point — if you believe so much in Karen Read's guilt, then the facts should speak. Everything that you put out there — the facts, the details of the case, and the way you interpret those facts — that should be enough. You shouldn't have to bring people's family members into it. Come on. I feel like you're better than that. That's all. I still have faith that you're better than that. [Grant] Yeah. And I think that's the perfect place to end, because you've given me a lot of time and I share your sentiments. I think that is crucially important. You don't see me out there in the past six months or twelve months talking about Melanie Little, or Olivia or her parents anymore. [The Glarer] I have seen improvement, yes. I have seen it. [Grant] And let me just say why: because I came to believe that there was this toxic atmosphere surrounding this case, and that I couldn't just say I thought it needed to change — I had to reflect that change in my actions. And that's why that happened. So that's it. That's how I feel. [The Glarer] Okay. Yeah, I mean, everybody’s entitled to their feelings and opinions, man. We all are. But yeah, I’m glad that we got this talk. I got to express some things I wanted to express to you. You were very receptive, and I appreciate you coming on and being respectful and being cool. And you’re welcome here anytime, Grant. I can see that we could talk about pretty much anything, and it's fine. That will always be welcome here — no matter what we disagree on. So I appreciate you, Grant. [Grant] God bless, Will, enjoy the rest of your Saturday. [The Glarer] Have a good one. Alright, Grant, y'all. Alright, I'm gonna take another call. Let's do that.](https://image.24vids.com/tw-1916273688736940311/amplify_video_thumb/1916261346590515200/img/hUvZMgeSmwtcpp9Y.jpg)