"Do you use Jira?"

Yet, those same broken people processes all choose Jira. Weird, it's almost as if this thing called symbiosis exists.

Ratioed.

I love how you guys keep proving your illiteracy while claiming superiority. That whole sentence makes no sense, as do most of your one liner tickets you think are full feature descriptions.

Based

Jira is just a perfect example that in large saas it's not about solving the problem of the contributor(s) but rather giving an illusion of control to those who can't do shit

Correction: "giving an illusion of control to those with money."

PMs are not always the ones who have all the money … but sure 😬 I think we agree that the illusion part is the key here 😂

Starts with “Jira is shit” .. describes people and process problem .. ends with “if i were in control i would just ise Jira”

Watches video where I literally said, "Do I use Jira? Fuck no!" Then claims I said I'd use Jira.

I’m a project manager and he’s not wrong.

Finally an honest honorable man in a profession of fakers.

I hate jira too, but the same arguments are all true for the rest of the task managers as well. and the reason one may like issue trackers over task managers is that they are built to be solely used by tech people, and mostly for libs and oss. so if one hates jira, they probably should not work in any corporate commercial software development settings.

You are totally right, or I would say, they all suck because they aren't sold to programmers as organizational tools. They're sold to managers as programmer control tools.

"You're absolutely right!" 😅

💯 I’ve been using our corporate Jira instance as my own personal journal for years now.

A 10x Product Manager I see.

More cya for audit season, with the occasional tys when the same bad ideas bubble up from admin. Pretty sure they run on the same schedule as the locusts.

Ok, Zed - but maybe programmers should start to realize that their job is to do the specification. They (we) actually have to do that work. The age of the angry bearded programmer that takes no responsibility for anything other than the code is over.

1. Nobody said do the _technical_ specs, they said specify what the feature should be more than just "login but dinosaurs." 2. The people responsible should be in control. The complaint is really that a bunch of people who are not responsible for the work (PMs) are in control. 3. You believe that programmers should do the work to create the specifications, but that implies that you believe programmers should run around talking to users, collecting requirements, writing up the feature request, developing UIs...weird that sounds like a PMs job so then...if programmers are doing the job why do you have PMs and why are they in control?

1. Fair. 2. I agree that is often the case especially in large orgs. But that’s because too many PMs don’t actually know how software works. 3. Yes. And that’s more true now than it has ever been. A good PM needs the skills of a good programmer to write good specs.

I’ve been programming for 15 years and now the majority of my work is writing good specs for AI agents to implement. And because I write good specs, I know good architecture, I steer and review the agent can actually write good code.

So my point is, many traditional PMs will be either out of jobs or have to level up their technical skills fast. And programmers need to realize that their job will be specs.

Bitching about an essential part of the job. Just code for yourself then

I do code for myself, but which is the essential part? Is it taking tickets that are totally unspecified by Product Managers or is it having zero control over your inputs but being responsible for the outputs?

Interpreting what people need, based on conversations with people who can't explain it, and giving them something that makes their life suck slightly less

@lzsthw They are not asked or expected to explain the technical side. But they are expected to EXPLAIN what it is they want in more words then a toddler uses when asking for a lollipop. I don't think that's much to ask for

@lzsthw In many cases it is. Now you can complain about that, which gives you nothing aside from smug points, or you can accept you get paid more than those people do, and this is a necessary part of the job Or go dig holes on the side of the road in sweltering heat, if you prefer

1. Programmers frequently on average are paid less than product managers. 2. Your possible solutions are binary when there's a third option: PMs aren't in control. 3. This confirms my initial assertion that Jira is only a power play since you believe either "be a good coder or STFU." So far man you've been extremely wrong, but it's to be expected since your inability to even use correct punctuation or form a cogent sentence basically proves that PMS can't write, which is an essential part of their job.

@StevenDecodes Not every company even has Product Managers. Being adaptable to circumstances isn't a 'git gud' circlejerk. It's called being realistic about what people are going to face, instead of bemoaning that it shouldn't be so. Keep bitching then, see how far it gets you

Same symptom of a developer. "Everyone is trying to control me, i am a victim! all i want is to create and have endorphin wins, boo hoo, fuck documentation and order, all you get are 100x meetings and a readme. fuck Atlassian"

Why is every product manager stan iliterate? Learn to use punctuation and capitalize your sentences before you go talking about people being bad at their jobs.

Issue#: NOHAIR-24958 Title: Complaining about everything, has sand in pussy.

You talk like those idiot "alpha" males that brag about getting people to make them a sandwich. What kind of an idiot can't make a sandwich? It's two slices of bread, meat, and some condiments. Nothing "alpha" about bragging you're too dumb to make a sandwich.

And you can't use Jira see the comparison you think I dont want to make a sandwich and make jokes that women should be making the sandwiches you do not want to use Jira because you think product managers should use it instead not the developer. You can call me professor , you just got schooled.

I worked at a law firm with banks as clients. We used Jira to record what work we were doing to stay in compliance. I grew to like it as a place to store notes and progress. I enjoy the ability to envision and create an entire feature. We ignored many Jira features.

You must have had more control over it because everywhere I and other people worked there is no "turning off features." "But! We paid for it!"

Small team. I can totally see it being used for evil. You must learn to wield the enemies tool against them. Request confirmation, describe the approach to be taken on Tuesday unless there is an objection. The English language is very powerful when weaponized.

"Scrum Master is breathing down our necks for closing this 1 pointer ticket. Why hasn't it been completed yet?" "Because we are changing the whole tech stack of our backend in this ticket!!"

Agile is like socialism - it never works, and when it inevitably fails, its adherents will sneer at you and claim that it always works and if it fails it's because you did Agile wrong.

Most of this stuff like the many different fields to fill out are required by virtually any enterprise company for compliance, accounting, etc.

No they're not. They don't use any of that, and there is no accounting system ever and no laws in taxation or in employment that requires tracking anything more than hours worked.

I’d use a vibe coded version of Jira just out of spite.

JIRA's only purpose is denote work you will not do.

I have an ongoing beef with the overlords at my job with Jira And it's the reason im looking for a new job. Fuck jira

We built @TraycerAI to help engineers coordinate on requirements. “Epics” in Traycer are centered around a system of specs that capture requirements using AI and human input. Then you break down work for your human and AI teammates using tickets

ISTM you have a process and culture problem, for which you are blaming Jira. Might I suggest some root cause analysis. Otherwise I wager you will change tools and find yourself with the exact same problem.

You should write a one-liner Jira ticket for that: "root cause--jira" I'm sure everyone will figure it out for you.

LOL. Sorry to hear you are working somewhere which has that kind of culture. Life does not have to be like that. Unfortunately many organisations misuse their tools. I feel your pain. Individuals and interactions…

Spot on explanation of JIRA. Wish I could spread this video all over because it is exactly how JIRA is used. If you really wanted to get software done, you'd just have a backlog of work items & go. It's so obvious that JIRA tries to be a solution for everything. It's a bucket!

Yep, weirdly though, the PMs using it that way don't realize it. Never understood why.

I have a similar view of all different kinds of project management techniques. :)

One does not choose JIRA, JIRA chooses you 😂

Average Jira experience: "The Screen Isn't Working Correctly" with no details about which screen and what exactly the expected functionality is and what the current functionality is. Just a "DIS BROKE U FIX"

I agree. Jira is dog shit.

Completely accurate, but won’t be a problem for much longer with ai.

Behold, JIRA stans en' guard! For what it's worth, been using it for 7 years and have seen both ends of the spectrum. I appreciated when X project had management who'd relay details as if it were a blueprint but mostly were infuriated by the rest of the occasions.

10000% correct. It’s like the days of ibm putting programmers in monkey suits and writing cobol (not bad language mind you)

Somebody hurt you and they used Jira to do it.

Me and a lot of other people my friend.

Ain't jira dead from a long time ago?

Interesting to hear a developers perspective as someone who budgeted 2M a year for no delivery and then had to build the architecture myself.

Your second panel is bullshit, and only a coked out narcissist would thing a single line of "logins but for puppies" is "exactly describing what I want."

I may be coked out on a near daily basis, but I spend a month doing surveys and workshops, supply a persona catalog, and journey templates, UI mockups, and test/confirm my own architecture proposal.

You had me at what if they log in, dinosaurs 😭

Kanban board. Done.

Me: "Product managers produce awful one line feature descriptions!" You:

Wow as a PM let me tell you, you've worked with some incompetent degenerates. ... That being said,

1st) Completely agree, is a piece people not really knowing what they want describe shit and use AI/random shit just to confuse a SWE 2nd) Jira is a terrible tool at first, as senior software developer i hate jira and used twice (diff companies) and github can be used 4 better

Curmudgeon devs are just the construction workers of the internet.