Has driver ball speed become the most overrated thing in pro golf? Here is Niklas Nørgaard smashing a drive with 191mph ball speed. Amazing. Yet Scottie Scheffler is cruising at 175 and destroying everyone. Fast drivers = poor iron distance control?

If you look at strokes gained tee to green, it’s not bombers. Rory is the exception. It’s guys like Scottie, Fleetwood, Henley, Spaun. Ball strikers! Yes you need to be decently long. But iron distance control will always be the great separator.

I caddied for a guy 7/8 years ago that led KFT in driving distance. His wedge game sucked

I truly think it’s hard to do both. Just different engines. Tiger had to change his swing and entire process to get the wedges where he wanted them.

Agree

Ball striking has ALWAYS been the benchmark. Those are the guys we long to be….bombers - for scrambles only.

I want to be a 5 hcp Henley. Golf is fun when in play all day.

My best rounds are always 50% plus fairways off the tee - and the remainder, first cut…

Yep. Can’t score if hitting your third to the green on a par 4.

We all know that the difference between the pros and us is putting, not driving.

IMO it’s irons

Important part, of course, but I’ve played with three pros who were Korn Ferry level players who could hit darts at the pin and all said the thing they kept them off the big tour was putting, particularly under pressure.

Yeah and also just the mental game period. There are thousands of players who can put up one 67 on a pro setup. They can even do it often. But they can’t grind for the 72 on their off days. They shoot 78 and are done. It’s why handicaps can mean nothing at that level. Two guys can be a +6, but one is a PGA Tour player and the other can’t sniff a mini tour. Because he can’t stop the high rounds.

I know it all too well. At my best years ago I was a -6 and every time I would play in a club tournament I’d find a way to post a quad bogey, usually in a situation I could play in my sleep casually.

175 it’s exceptional

Remember when DeChambeau was supposed to break pro golf with his 185+ mph ball speed? This is akin to the metrics craziness in baseball where many believe exit velo determines who becomes a major leaguer and who doesn’t? Metrics don’t know situations either.

Yep and Bryson did win 2 majors with his style, but they were both especially built for missing fairways. Bombers paradise.

Scottie goes over 180 all the time.

That’s impressive since his average is 175. He must go really slow sometimes. I’m not saying he can’t, my point is he purposely goes for accuracy.

And Hoogard is averaging 187.84 not 191. Scottie is actually 177 not 175.

What about Bryson?

He is an outlier, but even he is back down to 180.

They don’t stop counting until it settles in the hole.

It’s about wedge game. Many of the top end speed guys just are not consistent with wedge play( control) from week to week or even round to round. Jake Knapp comes to mind

And I’m not sure it’s easy to fix. I’m sure he grinds his wedge game, it’s just hard to have speed control with that kind of swing speed.

Absolutely correct.

These guys would not be on tour without that extra length BECAUSE they can’t ball strike like the others. So there’s an elite group of strikers but this matters to this particular group of players a great deal.

That makes sense. The bombers who can do well on like 1/3 of the courses that don’t require accuracy.

And their scores are still lower on the other 2/3 because they’re not hitting two clubs longer into greens…even if they’re not going to appear on any leaderboards.

Lower relative to who? Strokes gained tee to green takes that all into account and the iron players dominate.

To themselves hitting two clubs longer into greens

IMO the best thing about the equipment is it has made almost everyone long enough to compete and sorta neutralized the distance advantage. Jack hit it longer than everyone. Tiger hit it longer than everyone (except Daly). Scottie knows where it's going and is long enough. So yes, ball speed is overrated.

100% right on this one, Rick.

It wasn’t that long ago that many didn’t even know how fast their swing was….Nicklaus I believe found out in his 50s what his SS was? Crazy to think about with driver SS being blasted all the time.

TOTALLY overrated - and worse, you’ve got mid/low level amateurs thinking that swinging harder is the answer .. I’ll bet ‘stiff’ shafts are outselling the ‘regular’ .. hitting a ball and carrying 275+ is meaningless if it’s not playable .. practice 150yds in, and learn to putt!

I will say fitters love stiff shafts. I’ve never been fit into regular, often X stiff even though I’m only 100 mph.

I’m also 100mph +/- always played stiffs, but at 64 should probably now play regulars Swing speed is a modestly important stat for high level ams, and pros (NOT me) .. set up and mechanic are much more key for the average am .. very simple tweaks can profoundly affect results

And I can card rounds 77-82 pretty regularly .. the high level am, to me, is scratch or a + .. I’m a 7

Dispersion is the actual number and distance is tuned to this. So a guy is hitting 175 for a reason and it’s usually that he can’t go faster. It’s that the further you hit the ball the more dispersion you have so strokes gained has a point where distance begins failing to make up for the dispersion.

Tiger hit it past everyone as did Jack.

Yep, the extreme outliers will be the ones who do both. They had the best iron control.

No way, if anything it’s still underrated. Speed is your potential. Sure there are trade offs but I think generally easier to become elite speed wise than approach wise and in pro golf you basically need to win once every 2 yr or have a couple high finishes to keep your card

I agree to a point, but there seems to be a clear drop off at around 180mph. The advantage gained seems to not matter. IMO it’s a couple things. First, it’s just really hard to be accurate at that speed. (Why Rory and Bryson are such outliers.) Second, it just can’t help your distance control to have a body that fires that fast. It’s famously Rory’s weakness and Bryson as well, especially with shorter irons. Shorter irons have always been their nemesis. We have a guy who won 2 times on tour this year at 165 ball speed.

Golf is all about how near, not how far.

And Alex winning...

I max out at 160mph at range 290 carry with no wind.

Close to tour level

Approach play SG is more important when like you said everyone is relatively good to great off the tee now

Scottie is also 6’4 and plays a driver shaft that’s cut down over an inch from standard. His whole bag is set up for control.

Still a second shot sport to go low!

Darren Fichardt today mid 150s off the tee in the rain at a 7300+ yards soft Wentworth finished tied 5th. Many of the max ballspeed believers would say that’s utterly impossible.

Of the top 15 in driving distance, only Rory is a consistently good player. Distance to a point as you said imo.

Exactly, diminishing returns.

distance control and clubface control are the elements of the long game which distinguish players

They had a stand this week at wentworth where you could try and beat the top speed of bmw model. Top speed is 191 mph. The model of driver supplied was a Slazenger 😳

Tiger’s biggest weapon was SG tee to green. He got it in play and his iron play was genius level. I agree with you completely.

No. It’s not an either/or. It’s not one or the other.

Definitely the case for Bryson DeChambeau. Poor short iron distance control cost him the PGA Championship this year.

Not necessarily the stat that matters out there is how many shots you pick up on the field on the greens it’s puts made…. Stokes gained putting

There’s a reason Berkshire isn’t on tour, and it ain’t distance

The easiest way to score in golf has been missed by so many. If you hit your iron shorts THE RIGHT DISTANCE you will always be closer to the hole. Direction is the easier part. Amateur hacker: over 20 course and tournament records. Lefty and Broken Left arm doesn’t work.

Maybe Scheffler is just better than everybody. I’d consider that too.