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Humanoids are an important form factor for developing physical AI models, says Carolina Parada, Google DeepMind's head of robotics, telling Tom Mackenzie their human-like design can make both deployment and learning easier

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New Episode: Carolina Parada leads the robotics team at Google DeepMind. Carolina believes in a future with a broad, rich ecosystem of diverse robot types, where AI is smart enough to embody any robot. We discuss her journey, advancements in Gemini Robotics 1.5, cross-embodiment transfer, RL versus imitation, humanoids, world models, scaling laws, societal concerns, and more. 1:17 Introduction 1:38 Career journey and inspirations 3:50 Reaction to the 2022 ChatGPT launch 4:53 Google DeepMind's robotics mission 9:13 Key upgrades in Gemini Robotics 1.5 14:06 Agentic system's web usage 15:33 Robotics data-gathering methods 16:57 VLA vs. reasoning model training differences 18:22 Convergence of action and reasoning models 19:35 Cross-embodiment transfer 22:34 Learning directly from humans 24:20 Generalization challenges 27:01 Imitation versus reinforcement learning 28:51 Use of world models in robotics 30:31 Applications and testing of Gemini Robotics 1.5 33:04 Do humanoids deserve special focus? 35:06 Home humanoids timeline & limiting factors 37:19 Scaling laws in robotics versus self-driving 38:46 Value of learning classical robotics approaches 40:38 Ethical issues and societal impact
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