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I added KV caching and INT8 KV quantization to our transformer inference, improving throughput by 35x. All of this was done from scratch in Rust + CUDA, on top of a homemade ML framework. On a 4-token prompt with 252 generated tokens: - Original: 0.76 tok/s - KV cache...

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Reese Chong

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53,026 görüntüleme • 5 ay önce •via X (Twitter)

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i spent 3 hours finding the sweet spot for hermes 4.3 36B on a single RTX 3090. saving you the trouble, anon. the model is 21.8GB at Q4_K_M. that leaves 2.2GB free on 24GB VRAM. not much room for KV cache. here's what actually happened: 4K: 35.3 tok/s 8K: 35.2 tok/s 16K: 34.8 tok/s 32K: 34.6 tok/s 64K: 6.4 tok/s 128K: 1.9 tok/s flat from 4K to 32K. then it falls off a cliff at 64K. the trick is quantized KV cache. without it you OOM at 16K. with quantized KV cache you get 32K at full speed. all 64 layers on GPU. at 64K something weird happens. ngl 99 (all layers on GPU) = 3.96 tok/s. the KV cache silently spills to CPU. drop to ngl 55 and speed jumps to 6.37. drop to ngl 48 and it gets worse again (3.46). there's an offload sweet spot where you free just enough VRAM for the cache without losing too much compute to PCIe transfers. 128K works at ngl 32 but you're at 1.95 tok/s. half the model on CPU. usable for batch work, not for interactive. the sweet spot command: llama-server -m hermes-4.3-36b-Q4_K_M.gguf -ngl 99 -c 32768 --cache-type-k q4_0 --cache-type-v q4_0 32K context. 34.6 tok/s. all on GPU. this is where dense 36B lives on 24GB. for comparison, qwen 3.5 (35B MoE, 3B active) holds 112 tok/s from 4K all the way to 262K on the same GPU. no speed drop. same total params, completely different architecture. hybrid linear attention means flat context scaling. dense pays for every token in the KV cache. code and quality comparison coming next. fast vs slow generation side by side in the videos below.
2:29

i spent 3 hours finding the sweet spot for hermes 4.3 36B on a single RTX 3090. saving you the trouble, anon. the model is 21.8GB at Q4_K_M. that leaves 2.2GB free on 24GB VRAM. not much room for KV cache. here's what actually happened: 4K: 35.3 tok/s 8K: 35.2 tok/s 16K: 34.8 tok/s 32K: 34.6 tok/s 64K: 6.4 tok/s 128K: 1.9 tok/s flat from 4K to 32K. then it falls off a cliff at 64K. the trick is quantized KV cache. without it you OOM at 16K. with quantized KV cache you get 32K at full speed. all 64 layers on GPU. at 64K something weird happens. ngl 99 (all layers on GPU) = 3.96 tok/s. the KV cache silently spills to CPU. drop to ngl 55 and speed jumps to 6.37. drop to ngl 48 and it gets worse again (3.46). there's an offload sweet spot where you free just enough VRAM for the cache without losing too much compute to PCIe transfers. 128K works at ngl 32 but you're at 1.95 tok/s. half the model on CPU. usable for batch work, not for interactive. the sweet spot command: llama-server -m hermes-4.3-36b-Q4_K_M.gguf -ngl 99 -c 32768 --cache-type-k q4_0 --cache-type-v q4_0 32K context. 34.6 tok/s. all on GPU. this is where dense 36B lives on 24GB. for comparison, qwen 3.5 (35B MoE, 3B active) holds 112 tok/s from 4K all the way to 262K on the same GPU. no speed drop. same total params, completely different architecture. hybrid linear attention means flat context scaling. dense pays for every token in the KV cache. code and quality comparison coming next. fast vs slow generation side by side in the videos below.

Sudo su

52,268 görüntüleme • 7 ay önce

Hot off the press 🔥 AEON vLLM Ultimate → v0.24.0. Link below ⤵️ The ultimate container for AI on NVIDIA DGX Spark — vLLM compiled from source for GB10/sm_121a. 🔓 UNLOCKED (impossible until this release): ▸ DFlash + FP8 KV cache — 2× KV capacity, draft acceptance intact, measured on-device ▸ FP8 KV on vision models — the KV-bandwidth lever is back ▸ DFlash on FlashInfer & Triton backends (was FlashAttention-only) 🛠 Carried ahead of upstream (still-open PRs, merged + validated): ▸ Triton NVFP4 KV cache → up to 3× KV capacity ▸ DFlash sliding-window drafters + prefix-cache stability for DFlash ▸ High-concurrency DFlash — clean through c=64 🧰 Fixes stock v0.24.0 doesn't have: ▸ Gemma-4 tied embeddings (ModelOpt) — stock crashes at load, ours doesn't ▸ Tool calling out of the box (stock --no-deps builds 500) ▸ Unified-memory hardened — no silent KV overcommit on the 121 GB pool 📊 One image, the whole fleet: Gemma-4-26B-A4B · Qwen3.6-27B · Qwen3.6-35B-A3B (hybrid GDN) 536 tok/s @ c16 · 472 tok/s @ c12 · 262K context · image+video · tools + reasoning parsers · full CUDA-graph capture 🐳 docker pull
0:44

Hot off the press 🔥 AEON vLLM Ultimate → v0.24.0. Link below ⤵️ The ultimate container for AI on NVIDIA DGX Spark — vLLM compiled from source for GB10/sm_121a. 🔓 UNLOCKED (impossible until this release): ▸ DFlash + FP8 KV cache — 2× KV capacity, draft acceptance intact, measured on-device ▸ FP8 KV on vision models — the KV-bandwidth lever is back ▸ DFlash on FlashInfer & Triton backends (was FlashAttention-only) 🛠 Carried ahead of upstream (still-open PRs, merged + validated): ▸ Triton NVFP4 KV cache → up to 3× KV capacity ▸ DFlash sliding-window drafters + prefix-cache stability for DFlash ▸ High-concurrency DFlash — clean through c=64 🧰 Fixes stock v0.24.0 doesn't have: ▸ Gemma-4 tied embeddings (ModelOpt) — stock crashes at load, ours doesn't ▸ Tool calling out of the box (stock --no-deps builds 500) ▸ Unified-memory hardened — no silent KV overcommit on the 121 GB pool 📊 One image, the whole fleet: Gemma-4-26B-A4B · Qwen3.6-27B · Qwen3.6-35B-A3B (hybrid GDN) 536 tok/s @ c16 · 472 tok/s @ c12 · 262K context · image+video · tools + reasoning parsers · full CUDA-graph capture 🐳 docker pull

ÆON FORGE ✨

24,800 görüntüleme • 3 ay önce

The easiest way to misunderstand KV cache is to assume every token goes through an LLM in the same way. It doesn’t. Take a decoder-only Transformer and a four-token prompt: x1, x2, x3, x4. During the prefill phase, the prompt is processed and each self-attention layer computes the keys and values for its prompt positions. Those K/V states are stored in that layer’s KV cache. The representation at the final prompt position produces the logits used to select the first generated token, y1. Here is the part that is easy to miss => Selecting y1 does not mean y1 is already in the KV cache. On the next forward step, y1 enters the model as position 5. At each self-attention layer, its Q, K and V are computed. Its query attends to the cached K/V from positions 1-4 plus its own current K/V at position 5. Its K/V then become part of that layer’s cache. The resulting final-layer representation produces logits for y2. Then y2 is processed as position 6, its K/V extend the cache, and the process continues. So for standard single-token, KV-cached autoregressive decoding: > prompt → prefill phase > new token → process one new position > past K/V → reuse them instead of recomputing them > KV cache → grows as new positions are processed One subtle distinction matters a lot and I want to highlight it => a token can be generated before it has been processed into the KV cache.
0:21

The easiest way to misunderstand KV cache is to assume every token goes through an LLM in the same way. It doesn’t. Take a decoder-only Transformer and a four-token prompt: x1, x2, x3, x4. During the prefill phase, the prompt is processed and each self-attention layer computes the keys and values for its prompt positions. Those K/V states are stored in that layer’s KV cache. The representation at the final prompt position produces the logits used to select the first generated token, y1. Here is the part that is easy to miss => Selecting y1 does not mean y1 is already in the KV cache. On the next forward step, y1 enters the model as position 5. At each self-attention layer, its Q, K and V are computed. Its query attends to the cached K/V from positions 1-4 plus its own current K/V at position 5. Its K/V then become part of that layer’s cache. The resulting final-layer representation produces logits for y2. Then y2 is processed as position 6, its K/V extend the cache, and the process continues. So for standard single-token, KV-cached autoregressive decoding: > prompt → prefill phase > new token → process one new position > past K/V → reuse them instead of recomputing them > KV cache → grows as new positions are processed One subtle distinction matters a lot and I want to highlight it => a token can be generated before it has been processed into the KV cache.

Tech with Mak

12,211 görüntüleme • 21 gün önce

Interesting approach to long context/continual learning here from Baseten at Cursor Compact long trajectories by compressing a prefix of the KV cache using an MLP/autoencoder. You can train this "compactor" MLP by learning to reconstruct activations that the original KV cache would produce on subsequent tokens. This maximally reconstructs information from long context that's useful for subsequent outputs. If you run an agent over extremely long context and run this compaction recursively, the activations of this compressed KV cache become like trained weights. Similar to task-specific LoRA or "cartridges". Would not be surprised if OpenAI is running a similar algorithm for their blackbox compaction. Clear benefits here if you can avoid busting the cache, as e.g. compacting via writing to a text file would. Seeing many emerging approaches to fixed size latent states for LLMs that seem promising. If building a task-specific KV cache compression ends up being more sample efficient than running backprop, getting this to "work" feels like one of the 2-3 remaining breakthroughs on the path to true AGI
13:13

Interesting approach to long context/continual learning here from Baseten at Cursor Compact long trajectories by compressing a prefix of the KV cache using an MLP/autoencoder. You can train this "compactor" MLP by learning to reconstruct activations that the original KV cache would produce on subsequent tokens. This maximally reconstructs information from long context that's useful for subsequent outputs. If you run an agent over extremely long context and run this compaction recursively, the activations of this compressed KV cache become like trained weights. Similar to task-specific LoRA or "cartridges". Would not be surprised if OpenAI is running a similar algorithm for their blackbox compaction. Clear benefits here if you can avoid busting the cache, as e.g. compacting via writing to a text file would. Seeing many emerging approaches to fixed size latent states for LLMs that seem promising. If building a task-specific KV cache compression ends up being more sample efficient than running backprop, getting this to "work" feels like one of the 2-3 remaining breakthroughs on the path to true AGI

Jay Hack

30,031 görüntüleme • 3 ay önce

Google's Gemma 4 26B A4B QAT hits 25+ tokens/sec and 320+ tokens/sec prefill on 8 GB VRAM (RTX 4060) + 16 GB RAM using TurboQuant Prefill just went from 200 → 320+ tok/s on the same 8GB card. 1.6x, no new hardware, no new quant, just a KV cache trick stacked on top of the Gemma 4 26B MoE setup from a few days ago. A few days ago I posted Gemma 4 26B A4B hitting 28 tok/s decode on 8GB VRAM using native MTP. prefill was stuck around 200 tok/s. fair callout by the community. So today I tested something I'd already been meaning to try: TheTom/llama-cpp-turboquant, the TurboQuant KV cache fork by Tom Turney (Tom Turney). (github link in the comments) thanks to him, the fork just got resynced to mainline, so MTP + TurboQuant now run together cleanly (I didnt see any meaningful gains by using MTP with this setup though but you can try). The flags (No MTP): -m gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -cnv -c 64000 --cache-type-k q8_0 --cache-type-v turbo3 Results on the same RTX 4060 8GB, tested with a 27k token prompt at 64k context loaded: Prefill: 200 tok/s → 320+ tok/s Decode: stayed above 25 tok/s (without MTP) Why it works: TurboQuant uses walsh hadamard rotation + polar quantization on the KV cache. keys are sensitive to compression, values aren't much, so it splits the difference: K stays at q8_0, V drops to turbo3 (~3 bits). bonus from the memory savings: same 8GB card can now stretch to 100-120k context with minimal decode penalty. It should now be snappier with any agent harness such as hermes agent without compromise on intelligence. If you're already running Gemma 4 on a small card, this stacks on top for free. Try --cache-type-k q8_0 --cache-type-v turbo3 on your setup and report back what your prefill/decode split looks like. unsloth model gguf and llama.cpp turboquant fork links in the comments. what's your prefill number before vs after?
0:31

Google's Gemma 4 26B A4B QAT hits 25+ tokens/sec and 320+ tokens/sec prefill on 8 GB VRAM (RTX 4060) + 16 GB RAM using TurboQuant Prefill just went from 200 → 320+ tok/s on the same 8GB card. 1.6x, no new hardware, no new quant, just a KV cache trick stacked on top of the Gemma 4 26B MoE setup from a few days ago. A few days ago I posted Gemma 4 26B A4B hitting 28 tok/s decode on 8GB VRAM using native MTP. prefill was stuck around 200 tok/s. fair callout by the community. So today I tested something I'd already been meaning to try: TheTom/llama-cpp-turboquant, the TurboQuant KV cache fork by Tom Turney (Tom Turney). (github link in the comments) thanks to him, the fork just got resynced to mainline, so MTP + TurboQuant now run together cleanly (I didnt see any meaningful gains by using MTP with this setup though but you can try). The flags (No MTP): -m gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -cnv -c 64000 --cache-type-k q8_0 --cache-type-v turbo3 Results on the same RTX 4060 8GB, tested with a 27k token prompt at 64k context loaded: Prefill: 200 tok/s → 320+ tok/s Decode: stayed above 25 tok/s (without MTP) Why it works: TurboQuant uses walsh hadamard rotation + polar quantization on the KV cache. keys are sensitive to compression, values aren't much, so it splits the difference: K stays at q8_0, V drops to turbo3 (~3 bits). bonus from the memory savings: same 8GB card can now stretch to 100-120k context with minimal decode penalty. It should now be snappier with any agent harness such as hermes agent without compromise on intelligence. If you're already running Gemma 4 on a small card, this stacks on top for free. Try --cache-type-k q8_0 --cache-type-v turbo3 on your setup and report back what your prefill/decode split looks like. unsloth model gguf and llama.cpp turboquant fork links in the comments. what's your prefill number before vs after?

Alok

119,821 görüntüleme • 3 ay önce

A tricky LLM interview question: You're serving a reasoning model on vLLM, and it keeps running out of GPU memory on long traces. So you add KV cache compression and evict 90% of the cached tokens. VRAM usage stays as is and GPU still runs out of memory. Why? (answer below) Evicting 90% of the KV cache can free almost none of the memory it was using. This sounds counterintuitive, but it follows directly from how production servers store the cache today. The KV cache grows with every token a model generates. Each token appends its key and value vectors across every layer, and nothing is freed while generation continues. This is the dominant memory cost for reasoning models. If a 32K-token CoT caches ~32K tokens of KV vectors, a Qwen3-32B with 4-bit weights will run out-of-memory around 24K tokens on a 24GB GPU. One obvious solution is to keep the important tokens and drop the rest, since attention is sparse enough to allow it. But this does not solve the memory problem yet. The reason is paged attention, which is the memory manager behind vLLM and most production servers. Under the hood, it splits GPU memory into fixed physical blocks, each one holds the KV for about 16 tokens. This block returns to the allocator only when every slot inside it is empty. Since the eviction logic selects tokens by importance, and such tokens are scattered across blocks... ...so despite eviction, almost every block is left with at least some survivor tokens. For instance, if the logic evicts 14k of 16k tokens across 1,000 blocks, most likely every block will still have a token. This means the allocator frees almost nothing. Placing the new tokens into those freed slots is not ideal because it breaks the cache's layout. Say token 16,001 arrives, and it's placed in the slot the 40th token used to hold. The cache now reads position 38, then 16,001, then 41, so the cache is no longer in token order. Attention can still compute the right answer from that, but only if every slot now carries a separate note recording which position it actually holds. This introduces another bookkeeping cost that an in-order layout inherently avoids. So the cache is logically 90% smaller and still physically the same size. Many compression results miss this because they measure on pre-allocated contiguous tensors rather than a paged server. There's another problem. Eviction methods pick which tokens to keep by looking at the attention scores themselves (as expected). But fast attention kernels used in production, like FlashAttention, never save those scores. They compute attention in small pieces and throw the full score grid away as they go, which is also why they're fast. So the exact signal eviction methods need isn't available in memory. The workaround is to fall back to eager attention and build the full matrix, which gives up the speed FlashAttention was there to provide. NVIDIA published a method called TriAttention to solve both these problems. It never needs attention scores. Instead, it scores tokens from the geometry of the model's key and query vectors before RoPE is applied, where those vectors sit in stable clusters. For the memory problem, it runs a compaction pass every 128 decoded tokens. The surviving tokens slide forward to close the holes eviction creates, so whole blocks empty out and return to the allocator while the cache stays in token order. On long reasoning traces, the approach matches full-attention accuracy while decoding 2.5x faster and using 10.7x less KV memory. KV cache compression is a big infrastructure problem. The number that decides whether it works is the count of freed blocks, not the count of evicted tokens. You can find the NVIDIA write-up here: I wrote a first-principles breakdown of how the KV cache works. It walks through why the model stores keys and values at all, why the cache grows with every token, and a comparison of LLM generation speed with and without KV caching. Read it below.
0:23

A tricky LLM interview question: You're serving a reasoning model on vLLM, and it keeps running out of GPU memory on long traces. So you add KV cache compression and evict 90% of the cached tokens. VRAM usage stays as is and GPU still runs out of memory. Why? (answer below) Evicting 90% of the KV cache can free almost none of the memory it was using. This sounds counterintuitive, but it follows directly from how production servers store the cache today. The KV cache grows with every token a model generates. Each token appends its key and value vectors across every layer, and nothing is freed while generation continues. This is the dominant memory cost for reasoning models. If a 32K-token CoT caches ~32K tokens of KV vectors, a Qwen3-32B with 4-bit weights will run out-of-memory around 24K tokens on a 24GB GPU. One obvious solution is to keep the important tokens and drop the rest, since attention is sparse enough to allow it. But this does not solve the memory problem yet. The reason is paged attention, which is the memory manager behind vLLM and most production servers. Under the hood, it splits GPU memory into fixed physical blocks, each one holds the KV for about 16 tokens. This block returns to the allocator only when every slot inside it is empty. Since the eviction logic selects tokens by importance, and such tokens are scattered across blocks... ...so despite eviction, almost every block is left with at least some survivor tokens. For instance, if the logic evicts 14k of 16k tokens across 1,000 blocks, most likely every block will still have a token. This means the allocator frees almost nothing. Placing the new tokens into those freed slots is not ideal because it breaks the cache's layout. Say token 16,001 arrives, and it's placed in the slot the 40th token used to hold. The cache now reads position 38, then 16,001, then 41, so the cache is no longer in token order. Attention can still compute the right answer from that, but only if every slot now carries a separate note recording which position it actually holds. This introduces another bookkeeping cost that an in-order layout inherently avoids. So the cache is logically 90% smaller and still physically the same size. Many compression results miss this because they measure on pre-allocated contiguous tensors rather than a paged server. There's another problem. Eviction methods pick which tokens to keep by looking at the attention scores themselves (as expected). But fast attention kernels used in production, like FlashAttention, never save those scores. They compute attention in small pieces and throw the full score grid away as they go, which is also why they're fast. So the exact signal eviction methods need isn't available in memory. The workaround is to fall back to eager attention and build the full matrix, which gives up the speed FlashAttention was there to provide. NVIDIA published a method called TriAttention to solve both these problems. It never needs attention scores. Instead, it scores tokens from the geometry of the model's key and query vectors before RoPE is applied, where those vectors sit in stable clusters. For the memory problem, it runs a compaction pass every 128 decoded tokens. The surviving tokens slide forward to close the holes eviction creates, so whole blocks empty out and return to the allocator while the cache stays in token order. On long reasoning traces, the approach matches full-attention accuracy while decoding 2.5x faster and using 10.7x less KV memory. KV cache compression is a big infrastructure problem. The number that decides whether it works is the count of freed blocks, not the count of evicted tokens. You can find the NVIDIA write-up here: I wrote a first-principles breakdown of how the KV cache works. It walks through why the model stores keys and values at all, why the cache grows with every token, and a comparison of LLM generation speed with and without KV caching. Read it below.

Avi Chawla

273,525 görüntüleme • 3 ay önce

I just crammed the updated Gemma 4 26B A4B QAT (MoE) with 180k context into an 8GB RTX 4060 (8 GB VRAM + 16 GB RAM only!!) and optimized the batch size. 23 tokens/sec decode, 300 tokens/sec prefill Yesterday I showed you a Gemma 4 31B dense model running flawlessly on an RTX 4090. Today, we're breaking the VRAM bank on a budget card using Unsloth’s new Gemma 4 26B (A4B) QAT quants. Following Google’s chat template update that boosted agentic benchmarks by +10%, I pushed this model to its absolute limits. Here is how you squeeze 250k context out of 8GB of VRAM. # The Setup & The Optimization - Hardware: Nvidia RTX 4060 (8GB VRAM) + 16GB System RAM - Environment: CUDA 13.0 build of llama.cpp - Model: gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf - Prompt: 28,000 tokens of prompt for each run If you read my L2 cache breakdown (attached in replies), you know the 4060’s 24MB cache maxes out at `-b 1024 -ub 1024`. Push past that, and prefill crashes. I locked those flags in for every test below to ensure maximum GEMM throughput. # 1. The Raw Context Push (Unquantized KV Cache) First, I wanted to see how far pure 8GB VRAM + 16GB RAM could stretch without touching the KV cache: - 80k Context: Prefill 385 t/s | Decode 25.5 t/s - 120k Context: Prefill 270 t/s | Decode 24 t/s llama.cpp flags: .\llama-server -m gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -c 120000 --port 8080 -ub 1024 -b 1024 Without KV quantization, 120k is your hard ceiling. push past that prefill throughput drops off a cliff, making the model practically unusable for large agentic workloads. # 2. The Q8 KV Cache Lifeline To survive 250k context on a budget card, you have to quantize the KV cache. I enabled 8 bit KV cache (`-ctk q8_0 -ctv q8_0`) and re ran: - 180k Context: Prefill 280 t/s | Decode 22.8 t/s - 250k Context: Prefill 115 t/s | Decode 20 t/s llama.cpp flags: .\llama-server -m gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -c 180000 --port 8080 -b 1024 -ub 1024 -ctk q8_0 -ctv q8_0 Result: Q8 KV cache brings 250k context back from the dead. Decode speed stabilizes at a highly usable 20 t/s. You are trading a very small bit amount of reasoning precision for an extra 130,000 tokens of context window. if you own a single rtx 3050, 3060, 3070, 4050, 4060, 5050 or 5060, you must try this model and optimize your batch size for higher prefill. Hugging Face links to the updated Unsloth's QAT quants and performance graph are in the replies below. What model are you running on your 6GB, 8GB or 12GB cards right now? Let's see your setups.
0:20

I just crammed the updated Gemma 4 26B A4B QAT (MoE) with 180k context into an 8GB RTX 4060 (8 GB VRAM + 16 GB RAM only!!) and optimized the batch size. 23 tokens/sec decode, 300 tokens/sec prefill Yesterday I showed you a Gemma 4 31B dense model running flawlessly on an RTX 4090. Today, we're breaking the VRAM bank on a budget card using Unsloth’s new Gemma 4 26B (A4B) QAT quants. Following Google’s chat template update that boosted agentic benchmarks by +10%, I pushed this model to its absolute limits. Here is how you squeeze 250k context out of 8GB of VRAM. # The Setup & The Optimization - Hardware: Nvidia RTX 4060 (8GB VRAM) + 16GB System RAM - Environment: CUDA 13.0 build of llama.cpp - Model: gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf - Prompt: 28,000 tokens of prompt for each run If you read my L2 cache breakdown (attached in replies), you know the 4060’s 24MB cache maxes out at `-b 1024 -ub 1024`. Push past that, and prefill crashes. I locked those flags in for every test below to ensure maximum GEMM throughput. # 1. The Raw Context Push (Unquantized KV Cache) First, I wanted to see how far pure 8GB VRAM + 16GB RAM could stretch without touching the KV cache: - 80k Context: Prefill 385 t/s | Decode 25.5 t/s - 120k Context: Prefill 270 t/s | Decode 24 t/s llama.cpp flags: .\llama-server -m gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -c 120000 --port 8080 -ub 1024 -b 1024 Without KV quantization, 120k is your hard ceiling. push past that prefill throughput drops off a cliff, making the model practically unusable for large agentic workloads. # 2. The Q8 KV Cache Lifeline To survive 250k context on a budget card, you have to quantize the KV cache. I enabled 8 bit KV cache (`-ctk q8_0 -ctv q8_0`) and re ran: - 180k Context: Prefill 280 t/s | Decode 22.8 t/s - 250k Context: Prefill 115 t/s | Decode 20 t/s llama.cpp flags: .\llama-server -m gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -c 180000 --port 8080 -b 1024 -ub 1024 -ctk q8_0 -ctv q8_0 Result: Q8 KV cache brings 250k context back from the dead. Decode speed stabilizes at a highly usable 20 t/s. You are trading a very small bit amount of reasoning precision for an extra 130,000 tokens of context window. if you own a single rtx 3050, 3060, 3070, 4050, 4060, 5050 or 5060, you must try this model and optimize your batch size for higher prefill. Hugging Face links to the updated Unsloth's QAT quants and performance graph are in the replies below. What model are you running on your 6GB, 8GB or 12GB cards right now? Let's see your setups.

Alok

36,617 görüntüleme • 2 ay önce

Researchers made LLM inference 14x faster and 90% cheaper. The video below depicts the speed up in action. Providers discount cached input tokens by as much as 90% because a cache hit skips prefill compute entirely. For stable system prompts and tool definitions, hit rates of 60 to 85% are achievable, which makes it the highest-leverage inference optimization. But the cost saving only works when the cached text is an exact, byte-for-byte prefix of the new request. If you change one character anywhere before it, the entire cached region is missed. Three common request patterns produce full cache misses: - A query that needs documents A and B together can't reuse B's standalone cache, because those KV entries were computed without A in front of them. - The same three documents retrieved in a different order produce a full cache miss, even though nothing about the documents changed. - In multi-turn conversations, every new turn invalidates whatever was cached beyond the stable prefix. Alibaba's production data did a study on this and found that just 10% of cached KV blocks serve 77% of all cache hits. So most of what gets cached sits in storage and is never used a single time. And the root cause is that KV entries are position-dependent. Each token's KV encodes attention to everything before it, so a cached block is only valid in the exact context it was computed in. There's a second, less discussed problem as well. Cache management runs inside the inference engine's process. Moving KV tensors between GPU, CPU, and disk competes with inference for the same resources. This is why Google's TurboQuant compresses KV caches to 3 bits with no accuracy loss and still causes a 20%+ slowdown when it runs in-process. Fixing both problems means restructuring where caching lives. Cache management moves into its own process, the engine only exchanges block IDs over shared GPU memory, and heavy data movement runs across GPU, CPU, disk, and remote storage in parallel. Non-prefix reuse gets handled by selectively recomputing only the small set of tokens that attend across document boundaries. LMCache is the open-source project (10k+ stars) that implements this exact architecture, and it plugs into vLLM, SGLang, and TensorRT-LLM. The selective recomputation part is implemented in its CacheBlend technique, which makes cached docs in any order and combination, with 2-4x faster multi-document processing. On H200s running Qwen3-235B with 50 concurrent users, LMCache's multiprocess mode delivers 14x faster time-to-first-token and 4x faster decoding compared to in-process caching. GitHub repo: (don't forget to star 🌟) My co-founder wrote a full breakdown of KV cache management. It covers the disaggregated architecture behind the 14x speed up, how CacheBlend preserves generation quality while skipping recomputation, and how to turn every document in a knowledge base into a reusable cached asset. Read it below.
0:34

Researchers made LLM inference 14x faster and 90% cheaper. The video below depicts the speed up in action. Providers discount cached input tokens by as much as 90% because a cache hit skips prefill compute entirely. For stable system prompts and tool definitions, hit rates of 60 to 85% are achievable, which makes it the highest-leverage inference optimization. But the cost saving only works when the cached text is an exact, byte-for-byte prefix of the new request. If you change one character anywhere before it, the entire cached region is missed. Three common request patterns produce full cache misses: - A query that needs documents A and B together can't reuse B's standalone cache, because those KV entries were computed without A in front of them. - The same three documents retrieved in a different order produce a full cache miss, even though nothing about the documents changed. - In multi-turn conversations, every new turn invalidates whatever was cached beyond the stable prefix. Alibaba's production data did a study on this and found that just 10% of cached KV blocks serve 77% of all cache hits. So most of what gets cached sits in storage and is never used a single time. And the root cause is that KV entries are position-dependent. Each token's KV encodes attention to everything before it, so a cached block is only valid in the exact context it was computed in. There's a second, less discussed problem as well. Cache management runs inside the inference engine's process. Moving KV tensors between GPU, CPU, and disk competes with inference for the same resources. This is why Google's TurboQuant compresses KV caches to 3 bits with no accuracy loss and still causes a 20%+ slowdown when it runs in-process. Fixing both problems means restructuring where caching lives. Cache management moves into its own process, the engine only exchanges block IDs over shared GPU memory, and heavy data movement runs across GPU, CPU, disk, and remote storage in parallel. Non-prefix reuse gets handled by selectively recomputing only the small set of tokens that attend across document boundaries. LMCache is the open-source project (10k+ stars) that implements this exact architecture, and it plugs into vLLM, SGLang, and TensorRT-LLM. The selective recomputation part is implemented in its CacheBlend technique, which makes cached docs in any order and combination, with 2-4x faster multi-document processing. On H200s running Qwen3-235B with 50 concurrent users, LMCache's multiprocess mode delivers 14x faster time-to-first-token and 4x faster decoding compared to in-process caching. GitHub repo: (don't forget to star 🌟) My co-founder wrote a full breakdown of KV cache management. It covers the disaggregated architecture behind the 14x speed up, how CacheBlend preserves generation quality while skipping recomputation, and how to turn every document in a knowledge base into a reusable cached asset. Read it below.

Avi Chawla

30,717 görüntüleme • 2 ay önce

A single RTX 4090 (24 GB VRAM) can run the updated gemma 4 31B (dense) model with a 190,000 context window at 33 tokens/second. The VRAM barrier is dying. Google quietly updated Gemma 4, and Unsloth immediately compiled the new quants. I built llama.cpp from source on Ubuntu 22 to benchmark it. Google's stealth update 2 days ago enabled uniform Flash Attention 4 on Hopper to boost prefill and patched the chat template to improve tool calling. The agentic reasoning gains on the benchmark charts are massive: TB2 (Agents): +4.5% (to 25.8%) Tau2 (Telecom): +10.1% (to 62.7%) Running on Ubuntu 22, CUDA 13.0 with a single NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090. Here is the exact step by step benchmarking process with a massive 28k tokens prompt and the commands I used to squeeze out maximum context without killing my throughput: # 1. The Baseline (Unquantized KV Cache) I started with full GPU offload (-ngl 99) and pushed the context to 40k. llama.cpp flags: ./build/bin/llama-server -m gemma-4-31B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -ngl 99 -c 40000 -fa on --port 8080 -v VRAM: 23.8 GB (maxed out on card) Throughput: Prefill: 2198.81 t/s | Decode: 35.77 t/s (with 28k tokens prompt) # 2. The CPU Split Trap I tried stretching to 80k context by offloading layers to the CPU (-ngl 52). llama.cpp flags: ./build/bin/llama-server -m gemma-4-31B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -c 80000 -ngl 52 -fa on --port 8080 -v Throughput: Prefill: 1212.73 t/s | Decode: 5 t/s (with 28k tokens prompt) # 3. The KV Quantization Breakthrough Instead of spilling layers to the CPU, I kept the model fully on card (-ngl 99) but enabled 8-bit KV cache quantization to free up VRAM. flags: ./build/bin/llama-server -m gemma-4-31B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -c 100000 --cache-type-k q8_0 --cache-type-v q8_0 -ngl 99 --port 8080 -v VRAM: 23.9 GB Throughput: Prefill: 2139.68 t/s | Decode: 32 t/s (with 28k tokens prompt) Result: 100k tokens of context on a single GPU with practically zero speed loss (and minimal intelligence loss). # 4. The Limit Test (Q4 KV Cache) To find the absolute breaking point, I dropped the KV cache to 4 bit (q4_0) and set -c 190000. flags: ./build/bin/llama-server -m gemma-4-31B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -c 190000 --cache-type-k q4_0 --cache-type-v q4_0 -ngl 99 --port 8080 -v VRAM: 23.8 GB Throughput: Prefill: 2206.66 t/s | Decode: 33 t/s (with 28k tokens prompt) (Note: Pushing it to 220k required dropping to -ngl 58 again, which immediately penalized decode down to 17 t/s). # The Tradeoff: For Max Reasoning: Keep your KV cache unquantized (f16). You get pristine reasoning but hit a strict 40k context ceiling. For Massive Document Retrieval: If you need to feed the model giant codebases, use --cache-type-k q4_0. Getting 190k context at 33 tokens/second on a consumer desktop with a 31b dense model is a cheat code. If you’re rocking a single 3090 or 4090 and slept on Gemma 4 earlier, this update is your cue to dust off the terminal. Hugging Face links to the Unsloth QAT quants are in the replies below.
0:20

A single RTX 4090 (24 GB VRAM) can run the updated gemma 4 31B (dense) model with a 190,000 context window at 33 tokens/second. The VRAM barrier is dying. Google quietly updated Gemma 4, and Unsloth immediately compiled the new quants. I built llama.cpp from source on Ubuntu 22 to benchmark it. Google's stealth update 2 days ago enabled uniform Flash Attention 4 on Hopper to boost prefill and patched the chat template to improve tool calling. The agentic reasoning gains on the benchmark charts are massive: TB2 (Agents): +4.5% (to 25.8%) Tau2 (Telecom): +10.1% (to 62.7%) Running on Ubuntu 22, CUDA 13.0 with a single NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090. Here is the exact step by step benchmarking process with a massive 28k tokens prompt and the commands I used to squeeze out maximum context without killing my throughput: # 1. The Baseline (Unquantized KV Cache) I started with full GPU offload (-ngl 99) and pushed the context to 40k. llama.cpp flags: ./build/bin/llama-server -m gemma-4-31B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -ngl 99 -c 40000 -fa on --port 8080 -v VRAM: 23.8 GB (maxed out on card) Throughput: Prefill: 2198.81 t/s | Decode: 35.77 t/s (with 28k tokens prompt) # 2. The CPU Split Trap I tried stretching to 80k context by offloading layers to the CPU (-ngl 52). llama.cpp flags: ./build/bin/llama-server -m gemma-4-31B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -c 80000 -ngl 52 -fa on --port 8080 -v Throughput: Prefill: 1212.73 t/s | Decode: 5 t/s (with 28k tokens prompt) # 3. The KV Quantization Breakthrough Instead of spilling layers to the CPU, I kept the model fully on card (-ngl 99) but enabled 8-bit KV cache quantization to free up VRAM. flags: ./build/bin/llama-server -m gemma-4-31B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -c 100000 --cache-type-k q8_0 --cache-type-v q8_0 -ngl 99 --port 8080 -v VRAM: 23.9 GB Throughput: Prefill: 2139.68 t/s | Decode: 32 t/s (with 28k tokens prompt) Result: 100k tokens of context on a single GPU with practically zero speed loss (and minimal intelligence loss). # 4. The Limit Test (Q4 KV Cache) To find the absolute breaking point, I dropped the KV cache to 4 bit (q4_0) and set -c 190000. flags: ./build/bin/llama-server -m gemma-4-31B-it-qat-UD-Q4_K_XL.gguf -c 190000 --cache-type-k q4_0 --cache-type-v q4_0 -ngl 99 --port 8080 -v VRAM: 23.8 GB Throughput: Prefill: 2206.66 t/s | Decode: 33 t/s (with 28k tokens prompt) (Note: Pushing it to 220k required dropping to -ngl 58 again, which immediately penalized decode down to 17 t/s). # The Tradeoff: For Max Reasoning: Keep your KV cache unquantized (f16). You get pristine reasoning but hit a strict 40k context ceiling. For Massive Document Retrieval: If you need to feed the model giant codebases, use --cache-type-k q4_0. Getting 190k context at 33 tokens/second on a consumer desktop with a 31b dense model is a cheat code. If you’re rocking a single 3090 or 4090 and slept on Gemma 4 earlier, this update is your cue to dust off the terminal. Hugging Face links to the Unsloth QAT quants are in the replies below.

Alok

76,069 görüntüleme • 2 ay önce

nvidia's 3B mamba destroyed alibaba's 3B deltanet on the same RTX 3090. only 24 days between releases. same active parameters, same VRAM tier, completely different architectures. nemotron cascade 2: 187 tok/s. flat from 4K to 625K context. zero speed loss. flags: -ngl 99 -np 1. that's it. no context flags, no KV cache tricks. auto-allocates 625K. qwen 3.5 35B-A3B: 112 tok/s. flat from 4K to 262K context. zero speed loss. flags: -ngl 99 -np 1 -c 262144 --cache-type-k q8_0 --cache-type-v q8_0. needed KV cache quantization to fit 262K. both models held a flat line across every context level. both architectures are context-independent. but nvidia's mamba2 is 67% faster at generating tokens on the exact same hardware and needs fewer flags to get there. same node, same GPU, same everything. the only variable is the model. gold medal math olympiad winner running at 187 tokens per second on single RTX 3090 a card from 6 years ago. nvidia cooked.
0:36

nvidia's 3B mamba destroyed alibaba's 3B deltanet on the same RTX 3090. only 24 days between releases. same active parameters, same VRAM tier, completely different architectures. nemotron cascade 2: 187 tok/s. flat from 4K to 625K context. zero speed loss. flags: -ngl 99 -np 1. that's it. no context flags, no KV cache tricks. auto-allocates 625K. qwen 3.5 35B-A3B: 112 tok/s. flat from 4K to 262K context. zero speed loss. flags: -ngl 99 -np 1 -c 262144 --cache-type-k q8_0 --cache-type-v q8_0. needed KV cache quantization to fit 262K. both models held a flat line across every context level. both architectures are context-independent. but nvidia's mamba2 is 67% faster at generating tokens on the exact same hardware and needs fewer flags to get there. same node, same GPU, same everything. the only variable is the model. gold medal math olympiad winner running at 187 tokens per second on single RTX 3090 a card from 6 years ago. nvidia cooked.

Sudo su

187,655 görüntüleme • 6 ay önce

testing Qwen3.5-35B-A3B latest optimized version by UnslothAI on a single RTX 3090. one detailed prompt. zero handholding. watch a 3B model scaffold an entire multifile game project autonomously. the setup: > model: Qwen3.5-35B-A3B (80B total, only 3B active per token) > quant: UD-Q4_K_XL by Unsloth (MXFP4 layers removed in latest update) > speed: 112 tok/s generation, ~130 tok/s prefill > context: 262K tokens > flags: -ngl 99 -c 262144 -np 1 --cache-type-k q8_0 --cache-type-v q8_0 > engine: llama.cpp > agent: Claude Code talk to localhost:8080 (llama.cpp now has native Anthropic API endpoint. no LiteLLM needed) q8_0 KV cache cuts VRAM usage in half vs f16 at 262K. -np 1 is default but worth noting. parallel slots multiply KV cache and at 262K that's an instant OOM. the prompt was more detailed than this but you get the idea: build a space shooter with parallax backgrounds, particle systems, procedural audio, 4 enemy types, boss fights, power-up system, and ship upgrades. 8 JavaScript modules. no libraries. game's called Octopus Invaders. gameplay footage dropping next.
0:50

testing Qwen3.5-35B-A3B latest optimized version by UnslothAI on a single RTX 3090. one detailed prompt. zero handholding. watch a 3B model scaffold an entire multifile game project autonomously. the setup: > model: Qwen3.5-35B-A3B (80B total, only 3B active per token) > quant: UD-Q4_K_XL by Unsloth (MXFP4 layers removed in latest update) > speed: 112 tok/s generation, ~130 tok/s prefill > context: 262K tokens > flags: -ngl 99 -c 262144 -np 1 --cache-type-k q8_0 --cache-type-v q8_0 > engine: llama.cpp > agent: Claude Code talk to localhost:8080 (llama.cpp now has native Anthropic API endpoint. no LiteLLM needed) q8_0 KV cache cuts VRAM usage in half vs f16 at 262K. -np 1 is default but worth noting. parallel slots multiply KV cache and at 262K that's an instant OOM. the prompt was more detailed than this but you get the idea: build a space shooter with parallax backgrounds, particle systems, procedural audio, 4 enemy types, boss fights, power-up system, and ship upgrades. 8 JavaScript modules. no libraries. game's called Octopus Invaders. gameplay footage dropping next.

Sudo su

167,244 görüntüleme • 7 ay önce

Mirai Labs (Mirai Labs) compressed Qwen3.8-27B to 2.4 bits. I ported it to llama.cpp and now it runs on a 12 GB card with 128K context. With q4 KV cache the 128K window takes 11.3 GB of VRAM, with q8 KV you get 74K in 11.1 GB. Decode is 40 tok/s, still 34-35 tok/s at 62K deep, and prefill around 1000 tok/s. I measured all of it on 1 RTX 3090 at 300 W, capped to what fits in 12 GB. No requant anywhere. The GGUF carries Mirai's compressed codes bit for bit, and greedy output matches their own vLLM plugin. Everything in the video was built by this same model as an agent in pi, 11 builds from 1 prompt each, a few needed a follow up and 1 is a blooper. That run was vLLM on my 3090s. Today the same weights run in llama.cpp. Big thread, all links and recipes 👇
2:37

Mirai Labs (Mirai Labs) compressed Qwen3.8-27B to 2.4 bits. I ported it to llama.cpp and now it runs on a 12 GB card with 128K context. With q4 KV cache the 128K window takes 11.3 GB of VRAM, with q8 KV you get 74K in 11.1 GB. Decode is 40 tok/s, still 34-35 tok/s at 62K deep, and prefill around 1000 tok/s. I measured all of it on 1 RTX 3090 at 300 W, capped to what fits in 12 GB. No requant anywhere. The GGUF carries Mirai's compressed codes bit for bit, and greedy output matches their own vLLM plugin. Everything in the video was built by this same model as an agent in pi, 11 builds from 1 prompt each, a few needed a follow up and 1 is a blooper. That run was vLLM on my 3090s. Today the same weights run in llama.cpp. Big thread, all links and recipes 👇

Alexey Fateev

31,679 görüntüleme • 13 gün önce

I implemented Google Research's TurboQuant as a CUDA-native compression engine on Blackwell B200. 5x KV cache compression on Qwen 2.5-1.5B, near-loseless attention scores, generating live from compressed memory. 5 custom cuTile CUDA kernels ft: - fused attention (with QJL corrections) - online softmax -on-chip cache decompression - pipelined TMA loads Try it out: s/o Bryce, the CUDA Colonel and the cuTile team at NVIDIA for lending me Blackwell GPU access :) cc sunny madra Gavin
4:46

I implemented Google Research's TurboQuant as a CUDA-native compression engine on Blackwell B200. 5x KV cache compression on Qwen 2.5-1.5B, near-loseless attention scores, generating live from compressed memory. 5 custom cuTile CUDA kernels ft: - fused attention (with QJL corrections) - online softmax -on-chip cache decompression - pipelined TMA loads Try it out: s/o Bryce, the CUDA Colonel and the cuTile team at NVIDIA for lending me Blackwell GPU access :) cc sunny madra Gavin

ani

816,429 görüntüleme • 6 ay önce

An interesting new approach to agentic RL: Researchers found a way to train AI agents nearly 2x faster. Agentic RL usually produces long rollouts, and when a rollout reaches its context budget, a compaction policy removes older turns and keeps the prompt, recent turns, or a summary. Most systems use re-prefill compaction. They create a shorter sequence and run every retained token through the model again. This rebuilds the KV cache after each compaction, so the same tokens may be processed several times. KV-streams is a new approach to solve this. Instead of rebuilding the shorter sequence, KV-streams removes discarded turns directly from the live KV cache. Generation continues from the entries that survived. In practice, you cannot just reuse those entries as is. It requires two fixes. > First, RoPE has already rotated each cached Key using its original token position. A Key may move from physical slot 1,000 to slot 500 after compaction, but the model must still treat it as position 1,000. KV-streams keeps physical storage and logical position separate. Retained Keys keep their rotations. New Queries and Keys continue from the original position count. > Second, vLLM does not store each KV entry independently. It groups them into fixed 16-token blocks and uses a block table to find those blocks in GPU memory. KV-streams cannot leave empty slots inside that table because the attention kernel may read the wrong memory. It therefore removes complete blocks and joins the remaining block references together. This introduces another problem. A conversation turn may end halfway through a 16-token block. In their vLLM setup, that partial block is not committed to the prefix cache and must be recomputed when the next turn arrives. If compaction happens first, those tokens may have originally attended to context that is no longer present. For the vLLM experiments, the researchers pad each completion to a multiple of 16 tokens. This commits every generated token to the cache before the next turn or compaction event. The SGLang setup uses single-token blocks and needs no padding. Separately, the researchers found that token-level eviction produced degenerate text and required substantial supervised fine-tuning. They suspect that removing message-boundary tokens disrupted the chat format learned during training. The agent experiments therefore remove complete turns, including their boundary tags. Once inference works this way, training must follow the same process. A normal trainer would either process the full rollout or rebuild the shorter sequence after compaction. Both options produce different KV entries from those used during generation. KV-streams records every compaction event during generation. The trainer then reproduces that history: retained tokens keep the states they formed before compaction, while later tokens are blocked from attending to spans that inference had already removed. In the repository’s validation runs, the difference between training and generation stayed near a mismatch KL of 0.001, indicating that both paths produced almost identical token probabilities. On SWE-bench Verified, the Markovian Thinker setup with KV-streams reached peak performance in about 32 hours. The same compaction strategy with re-prefill took roughly 60 hours, while both reached comparable final scores. The speedup mainly applies to RL training, where one rollout may be compacted several times. At production inference, batching can hide some prefill cost, and keeping caches for inactive users reduces serving capacity. There is one more detail. The retained KV entries were created while the removed turns were still visible. Future tokens cannot attend to those turns directly, but some of their influence may remain in the entries that were not evicted. In a controlled test, RL recovered an assignment after its original message was removed. Recall reached 100% when enough cache remained. KV-streams does not decide what the model should forget. Instead, it makes existing compaction policies cheaper to train by preserving the KV state they choose to retain. Repo: If you want to dive deeper into the broader KV-cache engineering stack, I wrote an article that covers eviction, paging, quantization, offloading, and architectural compression. Read it below.
0:26

An interesting new approach to agentic RL: Researchers found a way to train AI agents nearly 2x faster. Agentic RL usually produces long rollouts, and when a rollout reaches its context budget, a compaction policy removes older turns and keeps the prompt, recent turns, or a summary. Most systems use re-prefill compaction. They create a shorter sequence and run every retained token through the model again. This rebuilds the KV cache after each compaction, so the same tokens may be processed several times. KV-streams is a new approach to solve this. Instead of rebuilding the shorter sequence, KV-streams removes discarded turns directly from the live KV cache. Generation continues from the entries that survived. In practice, you cannot just reuse those entries as is. It requires two fixes. > First, RoPE has already rotated each cached Key using its original token position. A Key may move from physical slot 1,000 to slot 500 after compaction, but the model must still treat it as position 1,000. KV-streams keeps physical storage and logical position separate. Retained Keys keep their rotations. New Queries and Keys continue from the original position count. > Second, vLLM does not store each KV entry independently. It groups them into fixed 16-token blocks and uses a block table to find those blocks in GPU memory. KV-streams cannot leave empty slots inside that table because the attention kernel may read the wrong memory. It therefore removes complete blocks and joins the remaining block references together. This introduces another problem. A conversation turn may end halfway through a 16-token block. In their vLLM setup, that partial block is not committed to the prefix cache and must be recomputed when the next turn arrives. If compaction happens first, those tokens may have originally attended to context that is no longer present. For the vLLM experiments, the researchers pad each completion to a multiple of 16 tokens. This commits every generated token to the cache before the next turn or compaction event. The SGLang setup uses single-token blocks and needs no padding. Separately, the researchers found that token-level eviction produced degenerate text and required substantial supervised fine-tuning. They suspect that removing message-boundary tokens disrupted the chat format learned during training. The agent experiments therefore remove complete turns, including their boundary tags. Once inference works this way, training must follow the same process. A normal trainer would either process the full rollout or rebuild the shorter sequence after compaction. Both options produce different KV entries from those used during generation. KV-streams records every compaction event during generation. The trainer then reproduces that history: retained tokens keep the states they formed before compaction, while later tokens are blocked from attending to spans that inference had already removed. In the repository’s validation runs, the difference between training and generation stayed near a mismatch KL of 0.001, indicating that both paths produced almost identical token probabilities. On SWE-bench Verified, the Markovian Thinker setup with KV-streams reached peak performance in about 32 hours. The same compaction strategy with re-prefill took roughly 60 hours, while both reached comparable final scores. The speedup mainly applies to RL training, where one rollout may be compacted several times. At production inference, batching can hide some prefill cost, and keeping caches for inactive users reduces serving capacity. There is one more detail. The retained KV entries were created while the removed turns were still visible. Future tokens cannot attend to those turns directly, but some of their influence may remain in the entries that were not evicted. In a controlled test, RL recovered an assignment after its original message was removed. Recall reached 100% when enough cache remained. KV-streams does not decide what the model should forget. Instead, it makes existing compaction policies cheaper to train by preserving the KV state they choose to retain. Repo: If you want to dive deeper into the broader KV-cache engineering stack, I wrote an article that covers eviction, paging, quantization, offloading, and architectural compression. Read it below.

Avi Chawla

18,120 görüntüleme • 7 gün önce

The Cost of Intelligence is Heading to Zero | Hyperspace P2P Distributed Cache We present to you our breakthrough cross-domain work across AI, distributed systems, cryptography, game theory to solve the primary structural inefficiency at the heart of AI infrastructure: most inference is redundant. Google has reported that only 15% of daily searches are truly novel. The rest are repeats or close variants. LLM inference inherits this same power-law distribution. Enterprise chatbots see 70-80% of queries fall into a handful of intent categories. System prompts are identical across 100% of requests within an application. The KV attention state for "You are a helpful assistant" has been computed billions of times, on millions of GPUs, identically. And yet every AI lab, every startup, every self-hosted deployment - computes and caches these results independently. There is no shared layer. No global memory. Every provider pays the full compute cost for every query, even when the answer already exists somewhere in the network. This is the problem Hyperspace solves where distributed cache operates at three levels, each catching a different class of redundancy: 1. Response cache Same prompt, same model, same parameters - instant cached response from any node in the network. SHA-256 hash lookup via DHT, with cryptographic cache proofs linking every response to its original inference execution. No trust required. Fetchers re-announce as providers, so popular responses replicate naturally across more nodes. 2. KV prefix cache Same system prompt tokens - skip the most expensive part of inference entirely. Prefill (computing Key-Value attention states) is deterministic: same model plus same tokens always produces identical KV state. The network caches these states using erasure coding and distributes them via the routing network. New questions that share a common prefix resume generation from cached state instead of recomputing from scratch. 3. Routing to cached nodes Instead of transferring KV state across the network for every request, Hyperspace routes the request to the node that already has the state loaded in VRAM. The request goes to the cache, not the cache to the request. Together, these three layers mean that 70-90% of inference requests at network scale never require full GPU computation. This work doesn't exist in isolation. It builds on research from across the industry: SGLang's RadixAttention demonstrated that automatic prefix sharing can yield up to 5x speedup on structured LLM workloads. Moonshot AI's Mooncake built an entire KV-cache-centric disaggregated architecture for production serving at Kimi. Anthropic, OpenAI, and Google all launched prompt caching products in 2024 - priced at 50-90% discounts - because system prompt reuse is so pervasive that it changes the economics of inference. What all of these systems share is a common limitation: they operate within a single organization's infrastructure. SGLang caches prefixes within one server. Mooncake disaggregates KV cache within one datacenter. Anthropic's prompt caching works within one API provider's fleet. None of them can share cached state across organizational boundaries. Hyperspace removes this boundary. The cache is global. A response computed by a node in Tokyo is immediately available to a node in Berlin. A KV prefix state generated for Qwen-32B on one machine is verifiable and reusable by any other machine running the same model. The routing network provides the delivery guarantees, the erasure coding provides the redundancy, and the cache proofs provide the trust. What this means for the cost of intelligence Big AI labs scale linearly: twice the users means twice the GPU spend. Every query is a cost center. Their internal caching helps, but it's siloed - Lab A's cache can't serve Lab B's users, and neither can serve a self-hosted Llama deployment. Hyperspace scales sub-linearly. Every new node that joins the network adds to the global cache. Every inference result enriches the cache for all future requests. The cache hit rate rises with network size because query distributions follow a power law - the most common questions are asked exponentially more often than rare ones. The implication is simple: as the network grows, the effective cost per inference drops. Not linearly. Logarithmically. At 10 million nodes, we estimate 75-90% of all inference requests can be served from cache, eliminating 400,000+ MWh of energy consumption per year and avoiding over 200,000 tons of CO2 emissions. The first person to ask a question pays the compute cost. Everyone after them gets the answer for free, with cryptographic proof that it's authentic. Training is competitive. Inference is shared Open-weight models are converging on quality with closed models. Labs will continue to differentiate on training - data curation, architecture innovation, RLHF tuning. That's where the real intellectual property lives. But inference is a commodity. Two copies of Qwen-32B running the same prompt produce the same KV state and the same response, byte for byte, regardless of whose GPU runs the matrix multiplication. There is no moat in multiplying matrices. The moat is in training the weights. A global distributed cache makes this separation explicit. It doesn't matter who trained the model. Once the weights are open, the inference cost approaches zero at scale - because the network remembers every answer and can prove it's correct. No lab, no matter how well-funded, can match this. They cannot share caches across competitors. They scale linearly. The network scales logarithmically. The marginal cost of intelligence approaches zero. That's the endgame.
0:23

The Cost of Intelligence is Heading to Zero | Hyperspace P2P Distributed Cache We present to you our breakthrough cross-domain work across AI, distributed systems, cryptography, game theory to solve the primary structural inefficiency at the heart of AI infrastructure: most inference is redundant. Google has reported that only 15% of daily searches are truly novel. The rest are repeats or close variants. LLM inference inherits this same power-law distribution. Enterprise chatbots see 70-80% of queries fall into a handful of intent categories. System prompts are identical across 100% of requests within an application. The KV attention state for "You are a helpful assistant" has been computed billions of times, on millions of GPUs, identically. And yet every AI lab, every startup, every self-hosted deployment - computes and caches these results independently. There is no shared layer. No global memory. Every provider pays the full compute cost for every query, even when the answer already exists somewhere in the network. This is the problem Hyperspace solves where distributed cache operates at three levels, each catching a different class of redundancy: 1. Response cache Same prompt, same model, same parameters - instant cached response from any node in the network. SHA-256 hash lookup via DHT, with cryptographic cache proofs linking every response to its original inference execution. No trust required. Fetchers re-announce as providers, so popular responses replicate naturally across more nodes. 2. KV prefix cache Same system prompt tokens - skip the most expensive part of inference entirely. Prefill (computing Key-Value attention states) is deterministic: same model plus same tokens always produces identical KV state. The network caches these states using erasure coding and distributes them via the routing network. New questions that share a common prefix resume generation from cached state instead of recomputing from scratch. 3. Routing to cached nodes Instead of transferring KV state across the network for every request, Hyperspace routes the request to the node that already has the state loaded in VRAM. The request goes to the cache, not the cache to the request. Together, these three layers mean that 70-90% of inference requests at network scale never require full GPU computation. This work doesn't exist in isolation. It builds on research from across the industry: SGLang's RadixAttention demonstrated that automatic prefix sharing can yield up to 5x speedup on structured LLM workloads. Moonshot AI's Mooncake built an entire KV-cache-centric disaggregated architecture for production serving at Kimi. Anthropic, OpenAI, and Google all launched prompt caching products in 2024 - priced at 50-90% discounts - because system prompt reuse is so pervasive that it changes the economics of inference. What all of these systems share is a common limitation: they operate within a single organization's infrastructure. SGLang caches prefixes within one server. Mooncake disaggregates KV cache within one datacenter. Anthropic's prompt caching works within one API provider's fleet. None of them can share cached state across organizational boundaries. Hyperspace removes this boundary. The cache is global. A response computed by a node in Tokyo is immediately available to a node in Berlin. A KV prefix state generated for Qwen-32B on one machine is verifiable and reusable by any other machine running the same model. The routing network provides the delivery guarantees, the erasure coding provides the redundancy, and the cache proofs provide the trust. What this means for the cost of intelligence Big AI labs scale linearly: twice the users means twice the GPU spend. Every query is a cost center. Their internal caching helps, but it's siloed - Lab A's cache can't serve Lab B's users, and neither can serve a self-hosted Llama deployment. Hyperspace scales sub-linearly. Every new node that joins the network adds to the global cache. Every inference result enriches the cache for all future requests. The cache hit rate rises with network size because query distributions follow a power law - the most common questions are asked exponentially more often than rare ones. The implication is simple: as the network grows, the effective cost per inference drops. Not linearly. Logarithmically. At 10 million nodes, we estimate 75-90% of all inference requests can be served from cache, eliminating 400,000+ MWh of energy consumption per year and avoiding over 200,000 tons of CO2 emissions. The first person to ask a question pays the compute cost. Everyone after them gets the answer for free, with cryptographic proof that it's authentic. Training is competitive. Inference is shared Open-weight models are converging on quality with closed models. Labs will continue to differentiate on training - data curation, architecture innovation, RLHF tuning. That's where the real intellectual property lives. But inference is a commodity. Two copies of Qwen-32B running the same prompt produce the same KV state and the same response, byte for byte, regardless of whose GPU runs the matrix multiplication. There is no moat in multiplying matrices. The moat is in training the weights. A global distributed cache makes this separation explicit. It doesn't matter who trained the model. Once the weights are open, the inference cost approaches zero at scale - because the network remembers every answer and can prove it's correct. No lab, no matter how well-funded, can match this. They cannot share caches across competitors. They scale linearly. The network scales logarithmically. The marginal cost of intelligence approaches zero. That's the endgame.

Varun

37,555 görüntüleme • 6 ay önce

first impressions of qwen 3.5 27B dense on a single RTX 3090. 35 tok/s. from 4K all the way to 300K+ context. no speed drop. hermes 4.3 started at 35 and degraded to 15 as context filled. qwen dense holds. MoE held 112 flat. 3x faster but only 3B of 35B active per token. architecture tradeoff. Q4_K_M on 16.7GB. native context 262K. pushed past training limit to 376K before VRAM ceiling on 24GB. tried q8 KV cache at 262K, speed collapsed to 11 tok/s. q4_0 KV is the sweet spot. flash attention mandatory. built in reasoning mode. the model thinks step by step before it answers. full chain of thought surviving Q4 quant. 1,799+ token thinking chains with self correction loops. on a single consumer GPU. gave it one prompt: "build a realtime particle galaxy simulation in one HTML file." 3,340 tokens. 95 seconds. one shot. ran on first load. full reasoning and coding in the video below. optimal config if you want to skip the hours of testing: llama-server -ngl 99 -c 262144 -fa on --cache-type-k q4_0 --cache-type-v q4_0 this is just the warmup. octopus invaders is next: 10 files, 3,400+ lines, zero steering. the prompt hermes quit at 22%. already more impressed than expected. full results coming soon.
2:02

first impressions of qwen 3.5 27B dense on a single RTX 3090. 35 tok/s. from 4K all the way to 300K+ context. no speed drop. hermes 4.3 started at 35 and degraded to 15 as context filled. qwen dense holds. MoE held 112 flat. 3x faster but only 3B of 35B active per token. architecture tradeoff. Q4_K_M on 16.7GB. native context 262K. pushed past training limit to 376K before VRAM ceiling on 24GB. tried q8 KV cache at 262K, speed collapsed to 11 tok/s. q4_0 KV is the sweet spot. flash attention mandatory. built in reasoning mode. the model thinks step by step before it answers. full chain of thought surviving Q4 quant. 1,799+ token thinking chains with self correction loops. on a single consumer GPU. gave it one prompt: "build a realtime particle galaxy simulation in one HTML file." 3,340 tokens. 95 seconds. one shot. ran on first load. full reasoning and coding in the video below. optimal config if you want to skip the hours of testing: llama-server -ngl 99 -c 262144 -fa on --cache-type-k q4_0 --cache-type-v q4_0 this is just the warmup. octopus invaders is next: 10 files, 3,400+ lines, zero steering. the prompt hermes quit at 22%. already more impressed than expected. full results coming soon.

Sudo su

122,051 görüntüleme • 7 ay önce

after turboquant and qwen3.5-35b-a3b, i got curious: how realistic is it to use kv cache as a document store today? to have vectorless, RAG-less search. so i prefilled 258K out of 262K context window on L4 (a budget GPU popular in prod). ~99% of the slot is pre-computed and stored, users load it on the fly in ~1s. system prompt + query append to the end, generation takes ~3K tokens, enough for search. at 99% fill rate, decoding runs ~20 tps on L4. i prepared some ego datasets (jina papers, which i know best), plus popular novels in chinese and english. the results are actually pretty good. some hallucination, but most answers are solid and well-grounded. what's more interesting is the cost: ~$0.26/h on L4 spot. single LLM. no vector database, no embedding model, no workflow/pipeline engineering. using kv cache as document store is nothing new, like the old CAG paper. but with quantized kv cache and modern attention (hybrid SSM-attention, GQA, MQA, MLA), the economics are changing fast. if we solve cold-prefill speed and decoding speed, and budget GPU costs keep dropping, the future of search could be vectorless. radical, but possible.
1:01

after turboquant and qwen3.5-35b-a3b, i got curious: how realistic is it to use kv cache as a document store today? to have vectorless, RAG-less search. so i prefilled 258K out of 262K context window on L4 (a budget GPU popular in prod). ~99% of the slot is pre-computed and stored, users load it on the fly in ~1s. system prompt + query append to the end, generation takes ~3K tokens, enough for search. at 99% fill rate, decoding runs ~20 tps on L4. i prepared some ego datasets (jina papers, which i know best), plus popular novels in chinese and english. the results are actually pretty good. some hallucination, but most answers are solid and well-grounded. what's more interesting is the cost: ~$0.26/h on L4 spot. single LLM. no vector database, no embedding model, no workflow/pipeline engineering. using kv cache as document store is nothing new, like the old CAG paper. but with quantized kv cache and modern attention (hybrid SSM-attention, GQA, MQA, MLA), the economics are changing fast. if we solve cold-prefill speed and decoding speed, and budget GPU costs keep dropping, the future of search could be vectorless. radical, but possible.

Han Xiao @ COLM 2026

42,484 görüntüleme • 6 ay önce

SITUATION EXPLAINED: Cerebras raised $5.55 billion in their IPO and closing their first day of trading valued at $66 billion, making it the biggest US tech IPO since Snowflake in 2020. Cerebras makes Wafer-Scale Engine chips built for AI inference. We asked Sarah Fong the main difference between wafer-scale chips and traditional GPUs: - GPUs are great at parallel work (graphics, training) - AI inference is sequential, AKA one token at a time This causes the "memory wall" problem: - Every GPU core needs model weights, KV cache, and activations to do its math - On a GPU, that data lives in off-chip memory (HBM) - Cores constantly load and offload from off-chip memory, which is a huge bottleneck; hardware accounts for ~70% of inference latency Cerebras' chips: -Dinner-plate sized (vs. GPUs which are palm-sized) with tens of thousands of cores -Memory sits directly on top of the cores as distributed SRAM -Weights and KV cache can be accessed at on-chip speeds in the PB/s range, compared with off-chip speeds in the TB/s range achieved by GPUs with HBM.
3:14

SITUATION EXPLAINED: Cerebras raised $5.55 billion in their IPO and closing their first day of trading valued at $66 billion, making it the biggest US tech IPO since Snowflake in 2020. Cerebras makes Wafer-Scale Engine chips built for AI inference. We asked Sarah Fong the main difference between wafer-scale chips and traditional GPUs: - GPUs are great at parallel work (graphics, training) - AI inference is sequential, AKA one token at a time This causes the "memory wall" problem: - Every GPU core needs model weights, KV cache, and activations to do its math - On a GPU, that data lives in off-chip memory (HBM) - Cores constantly load and offload from off-chip memory, which is a huge bottleneck; hardware accounts for ~70% of inference latency Cerebras' chips: -Dinner-plate sized (vs. GPUs which are palm-sized) with tens of thousands of cores -Memory sits directly on top of the cores as distributed SRAM -Weights and KV cache can be accessed at on-chip speeds in the PB/s range, compared with off-chip speeds in the TB/s range achieved by GPUs with HBM.

MTS

44,057 görüntüleme • 4 ay önce

A 27B model with 96K context built an actual game locally on a 16GB RTX 5070 Ti at 75 tps. This wasn't a benchmark but an actual working villager simulation. Setup 👇 🎮 RTX 5070 Ti 16GB 🧠 Qwen3.8-27B 📦 UD-Q3_K_XL GGUF 🚀 Fully GPU-offloaded 🦙 beellama.cpp + Kvarn optimizations 🔮 MTP n=2 🧮 Kvarn3 KV cache 📚 96,256 context ⚡ up to 75 tok/s generation 📥 up to 1,700 tok/s prefill 🪟 Windows The model incrementally built a browser-based village simulation with: 🏠 housing 🌦️ weather + seasons 🌙 day/night cycles 🍖 hunger 🪵 resources 💀 deaths 🚶 obstacle avoidance 👨‍🌾 autonomous villagers 🎯 The user deliberately chose a Q3_K_XL model + heavily compressed KV cache so the entire 27B model, MTP and ~96K context could stay inside 16GB VRAM instead of spilling weights to CPU. Their conclusion was not to fear Q3 models or aggressive KV quantization when the alternative is CPU offload and a massive speed hit. 😁🔥 ⚠️ This also uses beellama.cpp/Kvarn, not stock llama.cpp. 🔗 Reddit /r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1w821fg/ninfer_vs_llamacpp_vs_vllm_quality_speed/
0:31

A 27B model with 96K context built an actual game locally on a 16GB RTX 5070 Ti at 75 tps. This wasn't a benchmark but an actual working villager simulation. Setup 👇 🎮 RTX 5070 Ti 16GB 🧠 Qwen3.8-27B 📦 UD-Q3_K_XL GGUF 🚀 Fully GPU-offloaded 🦙 beellama.cpp + Kvarn optimizations 🔮 MTP n=2 🧮 Kvarn3 KV cache 📚 96,256 context ⚡ up to 75 tok/s generation 📥 up to 1,700 tok/s prefill 🪟 Windows The model incrementally built a browser-based village simulation with: 🏠 housing 🌦️ weather + seasons 🌙 day/night cycles 🍖 hunger 🪵 resources 💀 deaths 🚶 obstacle avoidance 👨‍🌾 autonomous villagers 🎯 The user deliberately chose a Q3_K_XL model + heavily compressed KV cache so the entire 27B model, MTP and ~96K context could stay inside 16GB VRAM instead of spilling weights to CPU. Their conclusion was not to fear Q3 models or aggressive KV quantization when the alternative is CPU offload and a massive speed hit. 😁🔥 ⚠️ This also uses beellama.cpp/Kvarn, not stock llama.cpp. 🔗 Reddit /r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1w821fg/ninfer_vs_llamacpp_vs_vllm_quality_speed/

David Hendrickson

20,899 görüntüleme • 1 ay önce

Redis built a cache that cuts LLM costs by 90%! Production LLM apps do not receive completely new questions every time. A customer-support assistant might receive all three of these: - "Can I get a refund after buying the monthly plan?" - "Is the monthly subscription refundable?" - "Can I cancel the plan and get my money back?" The wording is different, but the underlying question and its answer remain the same. Yet LLM apps process every version as a new request. They assemble the prompt, send it to the model, and generate an answer that may have already been generated. Prefix caching reduces part of these repeated calls. When requests begin with the same system prompt or context, the model can reuse the KV states already computed for that shared prefix. But the request still hits the LLM. The new tokens must be processed, and the complete answer must still be decoded. So even with a prefix-cache hit, there's another generation call involved. To solve this, instead of only caching computation inside the model, the application can cache the generated response outside it. When another question arrives, the system embeds it and compares it with previously answered questions. If it finds a sufficiently close match, it returns the stored response without invoking the LLM again. A cache hit removes the input tokens, output tokens, and decoding time associated with another LLM call. In practice, it is important to decide which questions can safely share an answer since a production setup needs well-tuned similarity thresholds, expiration policies, data isolation, and monitoring for incorrect matches. If you want to use this in practice, Redis already implements it as a managed service called Redis LangCache. Under the hood, it generates embeddings, searches previous responses, and returns a matching answer before another model call occurs. Redis also handles access scopes, custom filtering, TTL and eviction controls, and cache monitoring through Redis Cloud. I built an interface to compare it against direct LLM inference. The video below shows this in action, and I worked with Redis on this post to put this together. For the paraphrased question in my run, direct inference took 2.232 seconds and consumed 514 input tokens plus 250 output tokens. Redis returned the earlier response in 0.37 seconds with zero LLM input or output tokens. That was roughly 6x faster in this run. Redis reports API cost savings of up to 90% and cache-hit responses up to 15x faster. The actual result depends on how much safe repetition exists in the workload. You can try Redis LangCache here: If you want to dive deeper, I have already written a detailed breakdown of KV, prefix, prompt, and semantic caching in the article quoted below. This demo builds on the final technique and shows it running in practice. Read it below.
0:29

Redis built a cache that cuts LLM costs by 90%! Production LLM apps do not receive completely new questions every time. A customer-support assistant might receive all three of these: - "Can I get a refund after buying the monthly plan?" - "Is the monthly subscription refundable?" - "Can I cancel the plan and get my money back?" The wording is different, but the underlying question and its answer remain the same. Yet LLM apps process every version as a new request. They assemble the prompt, send it to the model, and generate an answer that may have already been generated. Prefix caching reduces part of these repeated calls. When requests begin with the same system prompt or context, the model can reuse the KV states already computed for that shared prefix. But the request still hits the LLM. The new tokens must be processed, and the complete answer must still be decoded. So even with a prefix-cache hit, there's another generation call involved. To solve this, instead of only caching computation inside the model, the application can cache the generated response outside it. When another question arrives, the system embeds it and compares it with previously answered questions. If it finds a sufficiently close match, it returns the stored response without invoking the LLM again. A cache hit removes the input tokens, output tokens, and decoding time associated with another LLM call. In practice, it is important to decide which questions can safely share an answer since a production setup needs well-tuned similarity thresholds, expiration policies, data isolation, and monitoring for incorrect matches. If you want to use this in practice, Redis already implements it as a managed service called Redis LangCache. Under the hood, it generates embeddings, searches previous responses, and returns a matching answer before another model call occurs. Redis also handles access scopes, custom filtering, TTL and eviction controls, and cache monitoring through Redis Cloud. I built an interface to compare it against direct LLM inference. The video below shows this in action, and I worked with Redis on this post to put this together. For the paraphrased question in my run, direct inference took 2.232 seconds and consumed 514 input tokens plus 250 output tokens. Redis returned the earlier response in 0.37 seconds with zero LLM input or output tokens. That was roughly 6x faster in this run. Redis reports API cost savings of up to 90% and cache-hit responses up to 15x faster. The actual result depends on how much safe repetition exists in the workload. You can try Redis LangCache here: If you want to dive deeper, I have already written a detailed breakdown of KV, prefix, prompt, and semantic caching in the article quoted below. This demo builds on the final technique and shows it running in practice. Read it below.

Avi Chawla

166,230 görüntüleme • 29 gün önce