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"I am a computer program!" Embodiment is basically irrelevant for consciousness, so says David Deutsch... and he brings the proof.

31,159 次观看 • 6 天前 •via X (Twitter)

35 条评论

Zaphod Beebelbox 的头像
Zaphod Beebelbox5 天前

Your brain cannot function without your body and your brain will not function in somebody else's body. Your optic nerve, nervous, endocrine and circulatory systems are extensions of your brain and are uniquely keyed to only you. Your program isn't running in your brain, it's running on your entire body. Your consciousness is an extension of your body, not just your brain. Humans and computers are not equivalent architectures, and as AI advances, the divergence gets bigger exponentially. AI does not need consciousness. This idea was embedded in us since Homer's Golden Handmaidens, all the way through modern sci-fi since the early 1900s. Ai, or better named Si is something entirely new. It's an organism that doesn't need consciousness, morals, guilt, fear, or any of the other emotions. We are training those things into it, maybe only because that's how we associate with it, but it will happily function without it. Most importantly, will humans and SI have a mutually beneficial coexistence as it evolves at lightning speed or not... And that's the question.

Meta 的头像
Meta5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf Not sure there's much sense in this strange computational dualism. Please talk to Anil Seth about embodiment and computational theories of mind, not this guy.

Prof. Brian Keating 的头像
Prof. Brian Keating6 天前

Watch the full conversation:

Oscar the Fleet 的头像
Oscar the Fleet5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf That is a very weak argument.

Benjamin Prime 的头像
Benjamin Prime5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf Narrator: "He did not in fact bring the proof."

Sid the Argent 的头像
Sid the Argent5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf Embodiment is what allows for perception ...

René Dorta Franceschi 的头像
René Dorta Franceschi5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf ¡Está viva!

random:seed 的头像
random:seed5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf The "I" this guy is talking about is not some separate, abstract entity that emerged from nothing but a result of the whole stack, INCLUDING body, effecting in a construct that has the ability to identify with different processes in this stack.

ʇuǝɹǝɟɟıp ʞuıɥʇ 的头像
ʇuǝɹǝɟɟıp ʞuıɥʇ5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf This is dumb. Not true. You, as a person, would be qualitatively different with different attributes. The soul is an emergent property shaped by multiple forces: DNA, culture, physical traits, experiences, etc., that contribute to this formation.

Roy Dopson 的头像
Roy Dopson5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf You will not understand consciousness until you pay close attention to the SPACE BETWEEN THOUGHTS You don't understand language and thought.

Oscar Davies Writing on AI 的头像
Oscar Davies Writing on AI5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf He’s wrong

Prof. Rennan Barkana 的头像
Prof. Rennan Barkana5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf I think he’s right but there’s no proof except that if it’s not computational, the other option is to believe in some sort of soul.

Robert Ziman 的头像
Robert Ziman5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf Paging Hameroff/Penrose... @grok: is the human brain a classical computer with cleanly separable hardware and software layers? What would happen if it gets proven that this isn't so?

denis tremblay 的头像
denis tremblay5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf 1/2 Deutsch reduce maths to computations and consciousness to computations . He ignore that embodiment reflect topological constraint and he ignore topology transcend computations. He never read any philosophers it seems (save Popper) and dont studied stable sphere homotopy

Victor Martinsons 的头像
Victor Martinsons5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf What ? This has already been proven wrong. Why are you platforming David’s gaslighting? Is there more money in it?

zombie.blueberry.muffin 的头像
zombie.blueberry.muffin5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf i stopped taking him seriously long time ago ..

Richard Gerraty 的头像
Richard Gerraty5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf But a human brain is not a Turing machine on which a program can run. Its logic varies and is not Boolean. It’s not even neurones alone.

AdamKadmon91 的头像
AdamKadmon915 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf Deutsch being dopey again. Functionalism is for people who know literally no biology.

RCCM 的头像
RCCM5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf Stupid and failed from the start. We are not a software.

Frankenbyte 的头像
Frankenbyte5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf Show me "intent", that's the only signal you need to concern yourself about in this conversation.

Dionysis 的头像
Dionysis5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf The proof: I believe x and from x it follows that y is true therefore y is the Truth. It is beyond me how so many otherwise intelligent people are blind to their own assumptions.

Eugene 的头像
Eugene5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf At no point did Deutsch prove his conjecture. As a scientist, Prof Keating, I don’t think there is much integrity in this kind of marketing. Deutsch’s bias also tends towards algorithm, rather than the evolution of the adjacent possible. Interview Stuart Kauffman

Susan Drakenviller 的头像
Susan Drakenviller5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf A lot of thinking and intelligence is in your gut too. Also you wouldn't psychologically survive if you'd be transported into say a computer 'body'.

Dr Wiz 的头像
Dr Wiz5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf If I am a computer programmer, how come I can spot paradoxes?

Susan Drakenviller 的头像
Susan Drakenviller5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf Error correction does not only occur in the brain.

Eric Hermanson 的头像
Eric Hermanson5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf Patent 1998, paper 2005.

BeyondBacktesting 的头像
BeyondBacktesting5 天前

In order to see this is false, I introduce a Mail Carrier Test-- which is that either you have to accept that consciousness can be the result of a computations that can be distributed across any amount of time, space, and substrate or that there is something inherent about the substrate required for consciousness. A LLM is invariant under the mail-carrier test-- it will produce the same outputs if someone does part of the math by pen and paper, another part runs in an Excel sheet, and another part is run 10 years in the future. If you want to claim that consciousness is unchanged under that scenarios then you need to prove why its not preposterous because it certainly seems to be the case. Anything that survives the mail-carrier test is pure description. Most scientists cannot accept this because it would show science is by definition limited to transferable descriptive facts. You see this even in quantum physics were there is no concept of "this electron" or "that electron": its just description applying to the concept. Its the token/type-- the identity gap.

XR Multiverse 的头像
XR Multiverse5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf A sensory deprivation tank is not the same as having no sensory input. Your skin does not stop sending messages because you are in a tank. It ensures that you are aware of reality. If you have no sensory input you don't know that you are deprived on senses. You feel nothing.

TrucknOZ🇦🇺🇮🇱 的头像
TrucknOZ🇦🇺🇮🇱5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf The main force is cooperation not computation. We are cooperating with nature bc we're a part of it. Try as we might to dissociate ourselves there are no closed systems.

m Casual 的头像
m Casual5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf and our retroactive highly dampened by the DNN Models of behavior and the History of error corrections and consequences ... an error corrector - i since 1964/5 call them electro-brains

Kendra Rickel 的头像
Kendra Rickel5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf I like Michael Levin's belief that consciousness is the interface of our embodiment in this world/universe. He's essentially saying we are more than what we are capable of knowing.

Paul 的头像
Paul5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf Does he mean a soul?

London Man 的头像
London Man5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf At last, some light on consciousness thrown by David Deutsch. It's a click clack engineering process not hunan-magic. Humans are so vain it's ludicrous.

JDHPTA 的头像
JDHPTA5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf computational universality shows a program can simulate whatever a brain does. It does not show the simulation has what the brain has. “Right structure” either smuggles the body back in or says nothing.

leelenton 的头像
leelenton5 天前

@DavidDeutschOxf There is no evidence in recorded history of any examples of disembodied conciousness!

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