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I am confident that if Terminator 2 came out today, it would be absolutely massacred by online discourse and the recent reveal of Lucia in GTA6 reaffirms that. Sarah Connor has every trait the culture warriors hate. Cold, calculated, prone to rage, unrelenting and steadfast. Every man she encounters... show more
64 条评论
One of your rare L takes, respectfully. I want GTA6 to be made by a bunch of fat middle age dudes, not a bunch of green haired dykes (which it clearly has).
I've been told that many of the main players in the writing department from previous GTA games are still present and writing for this one. Besides, this doesn't take away from my point. People are so captured by the culture war that seeing Sarah Connor one arm the shot gun in a trailer would have people automatically assuming it was written by women.
People and woke culture aside…the reason the comparison doesn’t work is because look at Sarah Connor’s character development, starting off as a struggling waitress, cheap moped, worrying about things….she didn’t start off as a ‘girl boss’ we saw her developing into a badass….
Lucia is depicted as a badass, but hasn’t earned being one, it’s unrealistic, not relatable…why does she have the skills of a marine? We need at least some character development for un-relatable or un realistic scenes, this a male dominated space and target audience.
And I think its the jump to the conclusion of her being unworthy of any badassery that has me perplexed. We don't know her origin story and the fact that people do not want to give the character any grace shows me how ideologically captured a lot of people have become. We know that goes to prison and then gets out. We don't know what for or how it impacted her yet. The fact that people aren't being sceptical and instead just jumping to "woke slop" is the issue. Maybe it comes out and it is some trash story telling, but people have to let things breathe before jumping to conclusions.
So my point, if your writing a character thats an unrelatable badass, without any context….thats bad writing, hence why its a bad comparison….Sarah Connor wasn’t advertised as one before the film…So its completely earned people make assumptions that this is garbage writing
But that is my point entirely. Sarah Connors character wasn't written as such in T1 and we never see that from her so if a T2 trailer dropped today, without the exposition at the beginning of T2 (remember, this is all in hindsight) and people saw the pump action shot gun scene, they'd immediately start the "SHE WASN'T LIKE THAT IN 1. WHAT HAPPENED? GIRL BOSS. WOKE", without even giving the film a chance to come out and explain itself. GTA isn't out yet. We don't know much about Lucia. Its why the comparison works.
Hold up a sec, your comparison is from a completed character, the reason why that scene works is because we’ve seen her grow into a badass….the reason it doesn’t work for Lucia is because we haven’t seen her earn that, and as an audience we are well within our rights to judge
Idiot spotted
Dam roasted i guess
It gets like that sometimes
Mike, don’t be dense lol. We all know a lot of movies of the past couldn’t even be made today because there would be some woke crowd demanding its cancellation. Pretending wokeslop isn’t killing media today is forcing yourself to accept that BS narrative.
That's not what I said. I specifically said that people are too tribal which means that points can be made on both sides that are fair. Of course there has been a shift in our media but your response reinforces my point. You read all of that and thought I was pretending things haven't changed even though I made it pretty clear that both sides have a point. This is an isolated post, not an indictment of every talking point ever made.
Yea but u used Sarah Connor as an example to point out how people would complain. No one complained about female leads or female characters in general until all these freaks were let out of asylums and allowed to run businesses, organizations, and create in general.
I love a good female lead. Tomb Raider was one of my fav games growing up but freaks and anti-White racist psychopaths use these awesome legacy characters to tell wokeslop where all the enemies are typically stupid, “racist” White people.
Then you really don't understand the complaints or how a good character is written. Sarah was a regular waitress thrown into a insane situation. She was protected by Kyle who taught her to be strong and fight. Today's Girlboss would had to protect Kyle because he would have been written as incompetent and incapable of completing his mission. Then despite her terror and the emotional loss of Kyle, she defeated the Terminator with cunning while nearly dying. A Girlboss would brushed off Kyles death, would have been unphased at battling the Terminator and would have met him in face to face combat. Coming out nearly unscathed. She ended up going a little crazy given what she had been through, the pressure of keeping John alive and preparing herself and John for Judgement Day. Ultimately losing John and being commited. A Girlboss would have no trama from the first movie and would be super successful and fully prepared for Judgement Day. John would be completely helpless and dependent on her. During the escspe from the hospital, despite disposing of several guards, as soon a She saw the Terminator she was terrified. She retreated. Today's female character would have charged at it and kicked it's ass with nothing but the guard's Billy Club and John would have had to stop her from destroying it. I could go on but this got longer than I thought, lol! Moral of the story, no Sarah Conner would not be considered "Woke" today.
If Terminator 2 came out today.....
The comments in this post proved my point and it seems the point was lost on a lot of people. You do not see Sarah's growth from Terminator 1 to 2 after Terminator 1 concludes. Its not until the 2nd film starts and we see Sarah in that facility that we know she's changed due to the trauma that she suffered in the 1st and the knowledge of the future that she had gained. The reason I chose the shotgun scene is because if that scene had dropped on the Internet in a trailer, in the lead up to the 2nd films release, completed isolated (remember, you haven't seen the 2nd film at this point), the Internet would have torn it apart without giving the film a chance. Yes, in hindsight, its easy to say "but we know her story and we see her progression" but that was never the point of my post. My point is between 1 and 2, there is a radical shift in her character and you wouldn't know that until the film came out. If this scene was in a trailer without context or knowledge of where the film begins and goes, after the 1st film had concluded (remember, you still have no idea at this point), I am absolutely certain some of you would have just called her a girl boss. This is what you're doing with GTA because of all the other stuff that has happened over the years and all I am saying is, "lets see Lucia's origins, see where the story goes and the actions she takes", but a lot of you seem to be ABSOLUTELY confident that you know she's a girl boss... even though you don't actually know much about her. But, of course because I made a post that some of you disagree with, this makes me a leftist, right? 😭 Omega brain rot.
mike, its crazy watching the comments under this post, literally proves you right in real time.
I think a lot of people missed the point as well.
This all is true if this was the first/only movie. As it's the sequel, and the progression of her character arc, this post is garbage.
The post is about this clip without the context of the second film. Think of it in the same light as a clip from a trailer for an unreleased film the same way GTA6 is unreleased. I chose this clip specifically because if this clip dropped online without anyone seeing the film in this current climate, it would have been torn to shreds, so yes, its your first sentence. Only T1 exists and this is all you have for T2.
@NCParker73 So your argument is I'm right as long as you don't have any context. Oh my God that is unbelievably stupid. If you don't look into it too much, I'm always right 😂
@RealMikeHollow I guess it could maybe sorta be an argument about people whining over upcoming trailers for things they can't have context for yet? Using a sequel is a terrible example.
@RealMikeHollow No not really because you have the ability to get the context you could watch Terminator 2. We can only acquire the information that's available to us and all the information we have is trailers for GTA. Why didn't you go watch Terminator? 2. Why did you ignore the context?
@RealMikeHollow That's why I said a sequel is a terrible example.
@RealMikeHollow Why would a sequel be a terrible example? We're talking about the character who grew over two films. That's why she's able to do those things that we see in the clip. I don't know what else to say to you. You seem to be very lost. I pity you
@RealMikeHollow Because using a sequel opens it up to everything you just said. That's why I said it's a terrible example. This isn't my argument. I was trying to understand that other guy's argument. My argument is, with no context he's right. But there is context so it's garbage.
u act like its anybodys fault but tha entertainment industry. we got to this point because of their agenda pushes.
Maybe so but people need to learn to differentiate. I'm not one to follow mobs or conventional trains of thought. I try to call things on an individual basis.
bro im sry but pattern recognition is real.
It is but exercising some rationality should still be something people do.
while i agree, i feel its unrealistic. i aint mad at em. over time, sarah would get tha respect shes due.
Terminator 2 is a sequel of an estabilished character so no. nice try toh
Wasn't the point of the post. It was seeing a trailer with this isolated clip in it and having that drop on twitter. Sarah from 1 to 2 are quite different and in the current climate, the Terminator 2 version of Sarah would never have been given a chance. Of course, in hindsight, we know she's a bad ass because we've seen the film lol.
Its not based on my emotions or feelings. I haven't really insulted anybody nor am I too bothered if people disagree with me. Its just my take. Its perfectly fine if they disagree with me. Its also fine that many people do agree with me. Thats how discourse works. Not everybody shares your opinions.
That doesn't really make sense. I am open to having my mind changed which is why I have continued talking with people. I think if you make a post like I did, you should probably be firm in your stance and just like you guys haven't been moved by anything i've said, I haven't been moved by anything you've said. Thats how discourse/debate works. You keep talking till you either agree to disagree or find common ground. Why is it that you haven't been moved to my side of the convo exactly? Is it because you haven't heard a compelling argument from me or that there's zero chance of ever convincing you?
Her Ark is so genuine and organic the sign of excellent writing, While there was a feminism push in Movies and TV's In the 90's, this was perfectly explained in T1 She wasn't a badass needed help, but In T2 she had to became this to protect John at all costs. Up there with Ripley of course.
Sarah Connor was physically and emotionally vulnerable, made many mistakes, exhibited questionable morals, trained for years, needed a massive male robot to protect her, and was primarily motivated by her motherly instincts to protect her child. Contemporary female protagonists are vehicles for vacuous narcissism and parochial political messaging. Try to think a little harder than “they both women.”
Respectfully, this isn't a great take. It's very reflexive and fence-sitty in tone. You're right people would call it out, because the climate around media in general has become centralized around things like this. Reddit jokes, beanmouth, safe-horny, girlboss. It's fatigued us.
Nope cause we all saw terminator 1 what she went through. You cant have terminator 2 without 1 and sarah was a very different character in 1. Terminator 2 is sarah living with the knowledge of skynet coming so she prepared between T1 and T2 which makes perfect sense especially when she was left alone with a son now due to the terminator killing the father
She was picking up Kyle Reese's work to lay the groundwork for his and John's resistance. We understood that back then because we paid attention to story and had foresight. She had more to prove when being committed by people that wouldn't even hear her.
The difference between good art and woke slop is that one is creative while the other rehashes with no original idea or concept. I mean, most modern movies are being re-made for western audiences. I knew of this divide when I got into Asian horror, in my experience.
1 major difference. We saw Sarah Connor's transformation. She wasn't this right off the bat. Terminator 1 was is basically a horror movie and Sarah is our final girl. Similarly this is the case with Ripley from Alien. They didn't start badass they earned their titles in movie 1.
People always bring up this argument that if X was made today, people would complain because of a strong female character, yet we can have stuff like Kpop Demon Hunter come out and it's universally praised. Maybe the issue is not the subject, but the execution.
This character had an entire movie prior to this one to develop. She also was absolutely riddled with PTSD and had serious flaws so viewers connected to her as a human. She stands as one of the best movie heroines of all time but you won't get this character depth in GTA
its in cinemas again at the start of September for the anniversary. You and the Mrs should go and watch it. Absolute classic.
Seen it a billion times but she's never seen it. Might have to put her on game.
Yeah man for sure. I'm gonna do it with mine. At the very least it's a good night out. If you got Amazon prime you can get good seats for cheap.
Stop... hitting... me
not comparable. not even close. sarah connor was facing a man slaughtering machine that doesn’t know pain, her one arm injured and one leg shot up. she was determined to protect her own cub and humanity from fate. that’s real badass. but lucia? skinny noodle arms holding a gun with no recoil facing brain dead NPCs. all i can think of her is this fake ass punk buster fool ain’t no real gangster bitch.
The difference is that Sarah Connor isn't a Mary Sue and has actual struggles and challenges as a character. Same with Ripley from Alien/s. If more female characters were written like them and not like a lesbian's poorly disguised fetish, media would be in a better place, nigga.
The difference is the time live in. It’s not one isolated character or story. It’s at this point hundreds. “Entertainment” is full blown propaganda and has been for at least a a little over a decade. You have to be willingly ignorant to not see it now in days.
Sarah Connor had a whole other movie before this where she was essentially running around scared shitless while Kyle Reese was saving her at every turn, the ending of the first movie shows how she goes from being a waitress to the badass we know and love.
Bad example. We see what Sarah went through to become the way she is. And we know why she becomes a badass fighter because she shacked up with military guys to learn how to operate various weapons and demolitions. But I agree it’s stupid to dismiss Lucia before playing
Do you notice that such discussions are exclusive to the western media and you rarely see this in eastern ones
Sarah's arc in t2 is a critique on the girlboss archetype. Her cold calculated nature, straying from maternal instincts, is chastized by herself at the end of the film: "Because if a machine, a Terminator, can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too"
Yes. Context of media changes in the era of was made. A subversive take on a hero role after 80s action stars certainly would hit different after 30 girls of girl power and 10+ years of "the future is female."
I'm confident you have no clue what you're talking about. Comparing a legendary heroine to a woke slop boss babe is like comparing Brock Lesner to a high school track runner. They have nothing in common. The only one who should be "massacred online" here is you.
Para nada. Ejemplos como Sarah Connor o Ellen Rioley son personajes muy bien desarrollados y creados de manera perfecta. No se sienten forzados ni se sienten que necesiten representar algo. Su carisma, argumento y planteamiento son sencillamente perfectos. Más personajes asi.
Incorrect. We saw her growth through the first movie.
Terminator 2 is already out and no one has anything bad to say about it. Sarah Connor is an underdog that outsmarts the staff in the psyche ward and doesn't kung fu her way out of there, but outsmarts and finesses her way out. The film is terrifying because she can always slip up. She is sweaty, and doubted, and weak. You watch the movie scared for her, because she's not a girlboss that beats up Terminators, but is always on the verge of getting captured or overpowered, and needs a Kyle Reese to help her in the first film, or a Terminator to protect her in the second film.
This was the second movie. This was an evolution in her character. We were introduced to her as a normal 19 year old college student working as a waitress. She isn't a badass, shotgun slinging warrior five minutes into the initial outing. She spends the entire first movie running for her life, whilst being told her role in the hellish future that awaits, as the mother of the one hope humanity has to lead them out of it. She then spends the subsequent 15 odd years preparing for the end of the world and getting the skills required to train her son to survive. In a world that thinks she's insane. However, I think you're right. I think the sheer amount of unmitigated shit that was pumped out purely for ideological reasons in the last 10 years, and was shielded from criticism by branding those with criticisms as misogynistic, racist incels, whilst claiming that this creation, that is adopting worlds and characters they love, is not for them? I think that's taken its toll. Men especially have grown to resent not being allowed to have anything that is unapologetically made by and for them, without it being "enshittified" by the obligatory girl boss hijacking the story, or pummelling you in the face with intersectional feminist ideology with all the subtlety and grace of a deer in roller skates on an ice rink. I used to have loads of movies, TV shows and games I was looking forward to. Now I have nothing. Everything has a sense of foreboding, like, "Oh, this could be great... I wonder how they're going to fuck it up," which is normally revealed with the cast. However, whilst they're fucking up all of our shit for the inclusion of women, women's shit remains intact. Kardashian IQs are still dropping as their asses inflate. Real Housewives are churning out their fake bullshit at record levels. Love Islands are popping up all over the world. Every game seems to be itching to swap their iconic male lead with an annoying female protagonist who, for some reason, looks like a man, or has that character undercut and undermine the character you actually like at every turn. Yet the cosy cartoon cat games have somehow resisted being turned into murder simulators. Even literature isn't safe. The medium which provides the bedrock upon which almost everything worthwhile has been built is now just awash in shit. It's all billionaire werewolves ploughing the bland "totally me" female self-insert, or said female self-insert milking minotaurs... so yeah. This is the world women have made, and it fucking sucks. So you best believe if I get the slightest whiff of the girl boss feminist archetype, I'm going to assume it sucks, because whatever good faith may have been built by people like Linda Hamilton to show women can belong in that space? They've squandered it. It's now synonymous with shit. Made for everybody, enjoyed by nobody. If you're a man and you want even a little crumb of power fantasy, or taste of a hero's journey, unless you're into anime? You're shit out of luck. I heard there's some good Korean stuff, but I can't take a man in makeup seriously, and I shouldn't need to resort to that.
Mike, great first name. I'm biased as a fellow "Mike". Anyway, don't waste your time on these folks who have never even spent two minutes in a relationship with an actual woman. These dudes are resentful, loveless little rejects who's only experience with girls is via XXX.
