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I had this idea for a 4-player dynamic splitscreen setup. Not sure if it's better than a traditional splitscreen setup, but I like the fact that you can see the relative locations of other players visually. Might write a blog post about this! #godot #gamedev

722,614 görüntüleme • 5 ay önce •via X (Twitter)

55 Yorum

Durante profil fotoğrafı
Durante5 ay önce

really interesting, the snap off when the players get too close feels wrong but there’s something here. i think the lines maybe need to be dynamic thickness or something hard to picture

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

Definitely agree. I noticed that line thickness corresponding to distance is something that's often done with the 2-player setups I've seen, and I need to see if I can make the transition less sudden.

Mark Daoust profil fotoğrafı
Mark Daoust5 ay önce

@dante_eats It feels like the “snap” would be less jarring if you kept it at 4 cells and just did the union of the nearby cell shapes instead of switching to a different number of cells. But part of the snap also comes from the speed difference.

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

@dante_eats Yep, totally agree – I later on found that some else had made a Unity plugin that does exactly that and it makes the transitions much smoother, so I might steal the idea.

foby tox 🇬🇧🇯🇵 profil fotoğrafı
foby tox 🇬🇧🇯🇵5 ay önce

cool experiment, looks great and a really smart idea, but i think id get motion sick if i played a game with this

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

@updog_osaka Thanks! Definitely agree, I think that this is a drawback of this approach. I'll try to see if I can mitigate it with a deadzone or sorts; but I think that this would work best on slower-paced games where it's expected that players will often be far apart, like survival games.

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

@updog_osaka Alternately, this could be embraced into something like a party game, where it's already expected that chaos is part of the fun.

Nuance profil fotoğrafı
Nuance5 ay önce

I think if you could change the color of the split, scale the alpha to zero as the splits are closer to merging, or darker colors = further away, something like that could provide some visual feedback to the players that might help alleviate the spacial confusion.

Patrick O'Shea profil fotoğrafı
Patrick O'Shea5 ay önce

Some Lego games do this better than others; I would definitely play/study them for the “feel” of when to snap and combine and when to split again. That hysteresis is the key.

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

Totally. I couldn't figure out how to smoothly transition the split, it's very natural in the LEGO games. What I might do is try to figure out when two cells are close to merging, then slowly move the cameras towards the midpoint of those cells.

Patrick O'Shea profil fotoğrafı
Patrick O'Shea5 ay önce

t’s frustrating on the split side, too. It can easily hold out too long to split, and easily spilt aggressively too soon. Best of luck!

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

Thanks!

Gustavo Chico | Clovelt profil fotoğrafı
Gustavo Chico | Clovelt5 ay önce

Some blending when the segments merge and it's perfect.

Nuance profil fotoğrafı
Nuance5 ay önce

You had this idea or you saw the GDC talk about the lego games? Even in their implementation I thought it was too confusing and chaotic, even with only 2 players. It's too hard to tell where things are in relation to everything else. Just zoom/pan the camera and work within those constraints. Whatever this buys you isn't worth it imo.

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

Never saw that conference, will need to watch it! I just saw similar 2-player setups and figured that I could try making a 4-player version. Zooming out only works if the map isn't too large. You could argue that in this case, a traditional 4-rectangle setup would also work.

Tom Kiwi profil fotoğrafı
Tom Kiwi5 ay önce

Some of the old Lego games do this for local multiplayer actually, but it usually ends up being quite a nuisance, You’re often losing a lot of information and it can be really disorienting to keep your eyes on your constantly shifting view

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

(Grass tileset is courtesy of @KenneyNL)

Donwids profil fotoğrafı
Donwids5 ay önce

That's so smart!! I like it a lot, the snapping together tho it kinda disorients me for a sec. Great work tho!

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

Thanks! Yes will definitely need to work on the snapping!

Miki Naz 🐔 profil fotoğrafı
Miki Naz 🐔5 ay önce

Cool idea but constantly changing field of vision would be really annoying. Like the Blue one in this moment has 0 visibility up and down.

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

Yeah, this is one the flaws of this method. Right now the algorithm tries to make every zone about the same area, but that means that super large rectangles like these are also valid shapes (1x4 rect is the same area as 2x2). I wonder if there's a better criteria than just area?

Lennart profil fotoğrafı
Lennart5 ay önce

@mikinazz Yes, you can add ratio constraints. That's what I do with my voronoi charts. And what you have here is voronoi.

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

@mikinazz Oh, curious, what do you mean by ratio constraints?

mu profil fotoğrafı
mu5 ay önce

You reminded me of this:

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

Oh neat! Quite an interesting read. Cool to see that I wasn't the first to notice the link with voronoi.

Todd profil fotoğrafı
Todd5 ay önce

This is an amazing concept. Before reading your post, I assumed you were showing relative position - and you were. So you've got an extremely intuitive design. :)

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

Thanks! Yes, I like that this setup doesn't require offscreen indicators or minimaps; you can very easily tell where others are relative to you. I also need to add some way to tell distance!

actual danger to society profil fotoğrafı
actual danger to society5 ay önce

I think conceptually its neat but the constantly moving borders I find visually overstimulating, my brain struggles to follow the character. Maybe a "spotlight" style so the camera's view stays mostly static until it merges might work? Would also be stylish depending on the game

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

Yup definitely something to explore. I was thinking of adding some sort of deadzone, that could help with the constantly moving zones.

Jon Barron profil fotoğrafı
Jon Barron5 ay önce

This is super cool, and I got very fixated on it. My intuition about voronoi tessellations is that this can't actually preserve the "the direction you shoot at in your own cell is the true direction in real space" property you'd want when the number of players is large. An easy proof by contradiction is that when the number of cells increases (because one character moves far away from another) you see a "pop" in the location of *both* characters on screen, and the angle of the lines between each character seem to be *different*, which means it was either wrong before or after the pop (or both). Or maybe simpler: if you have 3 characters in a 2 vs 1 configuration, it should be impossible to have a bisection that preserves this aiming property because 1) you necessarily must have only 1 line separating the 2 characters from the other 1, and 2) for the property to hold, the bisecting line must be perpendicular to the true aim-vector for *both* of the 2 characters sharing a cell, and I think this is only possible if character A in the 2-character cell lies along the same line as character B in the cell. The tessellation I think you want is something like: draw a line between each character, enforce that each edge of the tessellation is perpendicular to that line, then solve for where exactly to place the edge along that line to maximize isotropy of the subdivided spaces. This is a really fun math problem. Probably LLM-able. I bet solving it exactly requires coming up with a novel kind of tessellation, and would require carefully thinking about not only where to cut space, but also where to place each character within its cell. Might not be possible when n gets really large even if you're very clever. But super cool thing to think about.

Saurs profil fotoğrafı
Saurs5 ay önce

Make the transitions smoother and it'll be good. Make the lines adjust thickness dynamically too like Renegade ops does as one and another slowly merge.

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

Totally agreed!

Tim Bauer profil fotoğrafı
Tim Bauer5 ay önce

Maybe not ideal for competitive games, but this would be fantastic for co-op campaigns. Dungeon crawlers or roguelikes immediately come to mind.

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

Yup, agree that it's less idea for competitive but co-op campains could definitely be a good application. I could see this working out in a game like Minecraft Dungeons (or Diablo). Chaotic party games are also another good application.

Albert Kenski profil fotoğrafı
Albert Kenski5 ay önce

reminds me of the camera in some lego games, where it rotates up or down like this but in 3d

GEIST_COMM_GAMES profil fotoğrafı
GEIST_COMM_GAMES5 ay önce

There's DEFINITELY something here but the current state is too dynamic to comfortably track with your eyes. I think with a few iterations it could be great but honestly if I played a game that had this as the split-screen camera I would lightly complain and then enjoy the game.

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

Yup, I need to explore what I can do about motion sickness. Fixing the popping will help, maybe having deadzones will help too. But as you said, I wonder if it's not something that you could get used to over time.

Baros 🗡💀 Wishlist Curses & Daggers profil fotoğrafı
Baros 🗡💀 Wishlist Curses & Daggers5 ay önce

this is so dope, I always thought if something like this was possible. I wanna see that blog post!

Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇 profil fotoğrafı
Yolwoocle · Léo Bernard 曹宇5 ay önce

Thank you very much! Working on it! 🙇‍♂️

Spathi profil fotoğrafı
Spathi5 ay önce

This looks amazing if you want to play games with friends and also get a massive headache

matthew scullino profil fotoğrafı
matthew scullino5 ay önce

I really like this! I think it shouldn’t be a sudden snap when players enter each other’s space, feels rather disorienting - especially since every player’s ‘viewport’ changes too. If you can find a way to make the transition smoother, I would prefer this to normal split screen.

Cookie profil fotoğrafı
Cookie5 ay önce

that looks cool as hell and could be used for puzzles (make a symbol usin gthe screen borders) but it looks so much more confusing than regular split screen

felix - comms soon(🐔👔) profil fotoğrafı
felix - comms soon(🐔👔)5 ay önce

thats a cool idea. does look fun! would like to see this more explored for different kind of games

Albert Latham profil fotoğrafı
Albert Latham5 ay önce

When I was young I had such a hard time with split screens because there was so much going on. I still have trouble with stuff like SSB and things like it. I don't know if this would help or not. I love the concept, though, for local coop! Especially the color coded borders!

S F profil fotoğrafı
S F5 ay önce

It's a Voronoi diagram. Lego LOTR did something similar IIRC, though they used a fade instead of a 'pop', which I find easier to visually track.

Blixt profil fotoğrafı
Blixt5 ay önce

Very cool! With this you probably have the data to produce a lens warp effect where the world is squished rather than cut along the edges between the players? Then you can see the whole level at once! (more or less lol)

Jacob profil fotoğrafı
Jacob5 ay önce

Great idea but I’d make the zone merging less jumpy

Shane Chaffin profil fotoğrafı
Shane Chaffin5 ay önce

Would be perfect for something like Toejam and Earl

Shiro profil fotoğrafı
Shiro5 ay önce

idk... it's a COOL idea, but it'd probably be WAY too disorienting, I already get disoriented playing any games with more than one player on the screen at a time, regular split-screen is perfectly fine. would be fire if it were just an optional setting tho.

Nora Brooks profil fotoğrafı
Nora Brooks5 ay önce

Reminds me of the voronoi split screen from this GDC

Marouen profil fotoğrafı
Marouen5 ay önce

Biggest limitation is reduced field of vision. If you give someone half the screen it’s fair for everyone But look at some of these characters being so close to the line (fog of war 1m from them)

Chromated profil fotoğrafı
Chromated5 ay önce

lmao i cant believe we have voronoi diagram splitscreens

Patience Exerciser profil fotoğrafı
Patience Exerciser5 ay önce

instead of sharp insta redraw lines, make it cloud-like and poof-away when they combine

nyx profil fotoğrafı
nyx5 ay önce

Needs some rework on the lines merge but the idea looks cool af

Brennan Wright profil fotoğrafı
Brennan Wright5 ay önce

This is a super cool idea but I definitely feel like the transition needs to be smoother as you approach another player. It’s super jarring in its current state when players merge into one cell.

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