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๐ข #ITsector discussed today in #LokSabha ๐ฎ๐ณ Several critical issues impacting IT employees & freshers were highlighted ๐ ๐ฅ Headcount in top IT companies hasnโt grown ๐ Fresher hiring has reduced ๐ค AI & new tech cutting job growth ๐ฐ Fresher salaries low, hikes minimal ๐ซ Campus hiring stalled,... show more
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![The most epic 13 minute AI rant I've heard in 2026 PS: My parent's heard this when I was playing it in the car and thought Jason โจ๐พSaaStr.Aiโจ Lemkin went OFF like Stephen A Smith does on first take PPS: Full transcript below [17:00] Harry Stebbings: I I just wanted to ask Jason, if the people that we want are fundamentally different, the developers that we used to hire, we don't because AI writes the code for us. The marketers we don't want, the sales people we don't wantโwho who do we want genuinely? Like what is the attractive profile? Because your Anthropicโs and your OpenAIs are hiring, so so what are the people that we want in the companies of the future? [17:18] Jason Lemkin: Look, I know it sounds trite, but but the answer is simple. It's just the expression each year changes. We want folks that are genuinely AI fluent. It's pretty simple. Now you know, maybe last year we called them prompt engineers, right? That used to be a job. I don't know if you remember that actually used to be the hottest job on planet earth. Now no one needs a prompt engineer because it's pretty easy to prompt all these tools. That job died. Okay. Um and now we need go-to-market engineers. Um I think that job's going to die. We needโeveryone needs so many forward deployed engineers. Like you can't hire enough forward deployed engineers. But uh you know um but Palantir just announced in whatever their their big their big eventโthey've gotten their deployment times down over 90% with forward deployed engineers. So that may becomeโso the this wave of disruption for the titles and the specificity, it's also exhaustingly accelerating. But it's really simple. You meet anyone for any roleโsales, marketing, engineering, product, QAโthey're they're either they're either they can't keep all of the ways they use AI to accelerate their job from spewing out of their mouth, or they're staring at you. It's there's nowhere in the middle. Like, and the person that comes in and saysโit's it's it sounds Captain Obviousโbut like, you know, you just had the whatever from Lovable, the the marketing head that was super popular on the show, right? She's just spewing AI-native insights into Lovable, right? It's not that complicated. You hire her, Elena, or whatever it is. You just hire her. It doesn't matter whether she's still in college or a junior or a senior or a middler, a left or right. And honestly, if you interview people, I would say of all even of the best startups I've invested in, maybe 30% of the management team meets this standard at best. 30%. Maybe less. And of the interviews I do in general, it's single-digit percents. It's just and in in that sense, it's the same as ever. Like you either lower the bar in hiring or you hire someone that's actually great. And someone that's actually great is so far ahead of you in how to apply to to employ the efficiencies of AI in their role, your jaw falls on the table. The difference is we used to need warm bodies. That's what's changing. We used to need warm bodies to answer the call, to do QA, to do code review, to to get the blue pixel to go from the upper left to the lower right. You laugh, but you need you literally needed to brute force this with humans. With AI, every day that goes by, the AIโyou do not need brute force human beings on your team. And that's another reason they're shrinking. Why are all these new companies so efficient? They're just not brute forcing things with humans. They're just not. They're choosing not to. And so these teamโall the brute forcers out thereโeveryone talks about how bloated teams got in 2021. I don't agree with that. I think they got as big as they needed to be when growth was high and you needed humans to do everything. All you look at these teams that that doubledโwell if growth continued at 60% like the rate in early 2021 for 5 years or can help me do the math and every single thing a software company did required a human. You were understaffed by your 2021 headcount. You'd be sitting here in 2026. You every office in SoMa would be triple packed and you there wouldn't be enough humans to staff your company. It's just the world changed. [20:33] Harry Stebbings: Jason, you live on the bleeding edge. I think me and Rory see that and I think the world sees that when they hear you every week in terms of how you run SaaS. For all of the CEOs and execs who listen to the show, what would you advise them in terms of determining whether someone is AI fluent when they meet them for jobs, for talent? [20:51] Jason Lemkin: Here's I realized I was just asked this. I just did a review with a super fast startup growing just crossing 100 million and I was asked this question. And one of my favorite executives, I thought his answer was pretty dated and because he gave me an answer that was about 6 months old. The answer 6 months old is: "I look for folks in my team, I look for you know at what tools they play with." Okay, that was a great answer in like summer of 2025. Okay, I tried Lovable last week. Okay, the answer in 2026 is: "What commercial AI tool have you brought into your organization this month?" That's the test. Anyone that is on the bleeding edge that you would want to hireโnow there are so many great products in the market. Okay, there is no excuse in any role to have not brought one tool a month into your organization. Okay, thereโnow there's going to be better and better tools and better and better products as the year goes on. What's the one you did? And you will see folks with their deer in the headlights to this question. What what sales tool? What marketing tool? What product tool? What engineering tool? What did you bring in? Why did you pick it? How does it working? Because if you're at remotely at the cutting edge, you're all over this. You're looking for the next agentic tools that will radically improve how you do business. This isโyou think everyone thinks SaaS is at the bleeding edge, right? You know, you know, all we do is we're just looking for the tools and trying them. Okay? Okay, we're one year ahead of everybody else because we did the simplest thing in the world. Like we tried the tools early and we trained them. We trained them for a month. Okay, I'll give youโwant hear a horrible example from this week? Super hot AI company valued at 6 billion. Okay, I'm not going to name it. Um, this week yesterday told us we had to quadruple what we spent on their product. Okay, their agent told us, right? And why did this happen? Okay. Well, at this $6 billion company, no one had trained the agent on its pricing properly. No one had tested it. They said, "Well, well, we've been in beta." And we said, "Well, when did the beta launch? A year ago." Okay, these are people asleep at at the wheel. You want somebody who the instant this comes up, they exactly know what the issue is. And "Hey, when I was at Lovable Replit, we trained the agent. This is how we did it. I brought in this tool. I brought in this tool that that Rory invested in last week. It solved all these issues." That's what you want to hear. And if they haven't brought in a tool in the last 30 days, at least deeply evaluated it. I don't really care whether they bought it, but gone so far down the funnel they can tell youโpick whatever tool: Fixie, Regie, GC, AIGCโI don't care how you went through it, you looked at it, you can tell me the eight ways it would improve the productivity of your business and three you didn't. Just don't hire that person because they're going to run your company to the ground. This is the job today. The job today is not to screw around on ChatGPT and to be a prompt engineer. The job today is to bring the best AI and agentic products into your organization and leverage all the hard work that the engineers have done building those products. That's your job. You don't have to screw around. You don't have to be a prompt engineer anymore. You have to be an agent deployment expert. Aโthis is the new job we're making up today. An Agentic Deployment Expert. That's your job from C-level to junior. Agentic Deployment Expert. Don't hire anybody else. You're going to regret it. They're going to stare at the camera. He's good. Stare at the camera. He's honorable. We could probably just I could slip away, get a coffee, and come back. No. And I I sound exasperated, Rory. And Iโbut the reason I am is I can just see I can see my best companies doing it. And I can see some companies I've invested in not doing it. And I want to cry. I just want to cry when they have no ADs on their team. I justโlike you're flushing your years of your life down the toilet by not approaching your how you're building this company this way. [24:33] Rory: Yes. And at the risk of being positive, it's worth pointing out two things he didn't say. Well, something implicit why he saidโJason didn't do the only hire, you know, he didn't commit the um employment law, I think it's a civil penalty of saying only employ people below X who get the new new thing because he implicitly said anyone can do it provided you're willing to learn. And I think that's the big aha that's one of the positive statements to make here right? Look and I think it appliesโI'm always wary of being "Hey, coming across, hey this this is the things that you all have to do." I think it applies to everyone including investors right? I mean I will say I have found that unless you're willing to invest the time learning these tools you actually shouldn't be investing in them. One of my partners Andy had this expression: "You know, if you decide you want to stop learning new things you probably should retire within 6 to 12 months and never write another check again." Maybe that's down to 3 to 6 months at this stage, right? And I think, you know, it'sโ [25:27] Harry Stebbings: Yeah, I actually I actually had a meeting with mine and Jason's biggest investor the other day and Iโpretend he's not hereโI said I think he's the most equipped investor for this generation of investing because I don't think anyone quite sits at the bleeding edge like he does on the investor side. [25:42] Harry Stebbings: Why in terms of using the equip stuff? Yeah. Yeah. In terms of using the stuff, understanding understanding bottlenecks, constraints. For sure. [25:51] Jason Lemkin: But can I just add one point? We can just cuz it's so important if it helps people. Okay, we areโand thank you Harry. We're going through these phases. Okay, and when AI started to blow up for real for us, uh call it early 2024, right? Maybe late '23, I wasn't equipped. It was too technical. I wasn't going to go in and figure outโI wasn't smart enough to figure out how to deal with a massively hallucinating LLM API and turn that and turn that into something magical. Kudos to investors and others that that got it in early '23, '22. I mean I remember IโI guess it was maybe SaaStr Annual '23. I was with David Sacks and I did a Q&A and I said, "How you thinking about AI at Craft?" He's like, "Well we're all in. We want 80% of '23 of investments to be AI." I'm like, "Great but like show me the show me the great ones in market." He's like, "They're all prototypes. We're all they're all they're all proof of concepts but we're all in anyway." That's where you kind of had to be in '23 if you weren't investing at like the LLM level. Okay, I wasn't smart enough. Then we went through this weird-ass prompt engineer era where like you you could torture these products to do something good, right? But you had to torture them. You had to like craft these crazy things that made no sense. Now we are in the era where mere ordinarily smart generalists can make these tools do magical things. And literally I go to these meetings and people be like, "I don't know how to like this is so scary. I don't know how to do this." And we show them our backends. Do you know how to do a workflow generator? Do you know how to do a a decision tree? Like we've been building these since software in the '90s. Okay, if youโI can show you all of our agents. The how they work is novel. They do have to be trained. You can't be lazy and have these agents work. But honestly, the the UI, the UX, the way we interact with them, it's just software. And so my point is: Pick yourself off the ground. This is your time now. If you felt lost in AI era, if you felt like you're behind, you don't understand what all these people are saying on X and Twitter and their Claude and and their and talking about all the 4.6 point Nano point and it's overโlike you just it's not your world. This is your time. This is your time for the generalist that knows how to use software tools really really well. And Iโthis is my last point but it's so important. If ever in your recent lifeโand this is why you could be all you need to be is young at heart to Rory's pointโif in the last three to five years you have successfully deployed a piece of enterprise software of any sort you yourself, not some agency you hired, but if you have deployed it, you can deploy any agentic tool. Any. And you can become the hero in your company and you can become the hero in your functional area. But I watch folksโI'm literally helping a company now that they're adding hundreds of sales folks this year with a new pre-IPO COOโhe's not hasn't brought in a single tool, totally scared of it. Okay, it's not that hard. Did you use SalesLoft? Did you use Outreach? Did you use HubSpot? Do you know these tools? If you can deploy these tools, you can deploy a world-changing AI agent. And so this is the time for people like the folks that that were shut out of the AI revolution right now. The generalist folks that are not that know how to deploy software that don't even know how to build software. Like vibe coding for me was folks who knew how to build software, but you didn't have to be an engineer. Now, you just need to know how to deploy software to win with AI agents. That's all you need to know. So many people have these skills and they're petrified of AI. "How did you do that? How did you deploy an AI BDR?" Well, we bought a piece of software, we figured out how it worked for a day, we set it up in an afternoon, and then and then we did spend 30 months training it, which you didn't do with this old software because in the old days, we just had to manually upload all the data, right? And there was no training. The the only non-intuitive part is training these things. And it's it's it's just work. So that's why when I see folks on the management team not doing this, there's no excuse. You do not need to be technical to win with AI agents in Q2 of '26. You do not need to be even 1% technical. Not at all. So it's your time. Or you're going to get laid off. Or you're going to get laid off because you're not going to matter.](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2036795243681423518/amplify_video_thumb/2036794127560613888/img/52_cdbzzL6_foTSI.jpg)
!["Tell us this isn't true." "They had a live being out [near Area 51]." "There were human experiments that went on." ๐ฝ๐ธ Roswell: A Non-Human Craft or a Darker Secret? ๐คซ๐ถ (Transcript is shorter than clip. I don't have room to type more in this post so I'll just wait for replies.) ~ Lex Fridman: "In your book on 'Area 51,' you propose an explanation that I think some people have criticized, at the very end. That this might have been a disinformation campaign from, I guess, Stalin, that the Roswell incident was a remotely-piloted plane with a quote 'grotesque, child-sized aviator.' Just looking back at all that now, years later, what's the probability that it's true? What's the probability it's not?" Annie Jacobsen: (AJ): "So, you know, I've never revealed who that source is." Lex: "Yes." AJ: "You know that? Want me to tell you?" Lex: "Okay, who was the source?" AJ: "So, before I say anything on that, let me speak to the question that you asked, right? So, you asked me, 'What's the probability that that is still standing as an idea, 12, 13, 14 years later,' right? So, I continued to work with that source for years, afterwards. We talked about this. Look, I mean, his whole family knew it was him. And I knew his family because I was an integral part of, you know, I was at his house, met all his kids, grandkids." Lex: "And we should say, the source is the main expert advisor behind the story that it was. Maybe you can explain what the story is that your report in the book, that it was a disinformation campaign created by Stalin to cause mass hysteria in the United States. The very kind that we've been speaking about with the CIA and so on." AJ: "Yes! Predicated on the narrative of the 'War of the Worlds,' right? And the 'War of the Worlds,' when it was a radio program in the United States, made people go crazy. 'Oh, my God, we're being invaded by aliens!' Well, the government was always interested in the story and Joseph Stalin was, too. We know that from declassified documents, right? "And so, the source told me that the reason for this program, and that the real Roswell crash remains, were in fact, it was a black-propaganda hoax infiltrated, you know, or rather, predicated at this idea that you were gonna overwhelm America's early-warning, air-defense system, cause mayhem and maybe be able to attack the United States. That was the plan. And Stalin was also messing with the United States, messing with Truman, who sort of, you know, turned his back on him, right? At Potsdam. "And so, this idea, and the reason that the source is important... And unlike, you know, a lot of people, 'I saw this, I saw that, I learned that.' Was, according to the source, once it was determined that this was a hoax and that Stalin was able to get a craft over the United States, and it crashed. And it had, you know, people inside of it, they were people that were sort of deformed and meant...surgically altered to look like aliens. "The United States government decided that it needed to know what on earth that was all about, and if it was possible for us to have the same program. This, according to this source, right? And so, it sounds preposterous, and if it was just someone saying, 'I...,' you might say, 'Well, it's ridiculous, get them onto another subject.' But, the difference was, is this source, who was very well placed, and friends with all of the other 75 people, you know, told me this as a confession, right? A real, tearful confession, because what he said is he was involved in the American program to do the same thing. And people died, because there were human experiments that went on." "And I write about this in the last 12 pages of 'Area 51.' It was an explosive, you know, revelation, and I felt very confident in writing this because the source wanted it written. Why? Because he said, 'I'm dedicated to my country. I know about being committed to national security, and this kind of thing must never happen. And if you give people too much power, they will take advantage of it.' And he wanted it on the record. "And his wife of 60 years did not know until after the book published. Nor did His children, okay? So, after the book published, I was called to his house and sat there with his family. And they said, 'Tell us this isn't true.' And he said, 'It is true,' right? (We need a tape of this confession or...for his family to confirm they heard this from him.) AJ: "Now that source is Al O'Donnell, who is the nuclear-weapons engineer who armed, wired and fired 186 nuclear weapons, okay? So if you wanna talk about someone..." Lex: "Woooooow." AJ: "You're the first person I've told that on the record, but it's kind of about time." Lex: "Woooooow. Well, you received a lot of criticism over this story, and it confused me why, because it's...given the context of everything you've described with the CIA and other intelligence agencies, it is reasonable that such action would be taken. AJ: "And, the source is extraordinarily credible, right? If you wanted to take the position, 'Well, that person isn't very reliable,' then you have to ask yourself, 'Why did they have Top-Secret clearances that are higher than any in the United States whatsoever?' Because he was responsible for arming nuclear bombs. He was called the trigger man. "And by the way, he told me that I could tell the world who he was. There's a lot of details that are really dark, involving that program. And when is it appropriate, right? Well, it feels appropriate now. First of all, because you and I have been talking for several hours. So this is what is truly a long-form conversation and it's the outcome of, you know, a very long time of my reporting, and also being judicious about what, you know, closing the loop on that, right? Because I do think it's important for people to know that sources have revelations." Lex: "And, like you said, the programs, both on the Soviet side, and the American side, conflicting, I think's the term we used previously? Ethically, morally, on all fronts. People have done some horrible things in the name of security. In your book, 'Surprise, Kill Vanish,' you write about the CIA." ~~~ Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell: "So, today, I want to focus on a really important story that you once told me, that has never been told all the way [from the] beginning, to all the way to the end. And I just think it's just so cool we get to do this today. So, the question I want to ask is: After you got hooked on the UFO thing, with Bob Lazar, and you as a journalist said, 'I'm gonna start getting sources.' Like, 12 people coming at you, people shut down by the government. You can tell that. But you finally, finally got to a credible individual who had direct, firsthand knowledge about UFOs, exploitation, reverse engineering, and beings. And, oh my God, I want the world to hear this story. Tell us the story." George Knapp: "I've shared some of it in very broad strokes over the years- little bits and pieces of it - without ever actually referencing, in my statements, the guy the source. But this will be the first time I've told it in totality. "And it takes me back to when I first started in this. It's 1989 KLAS-TV, we put together, we spent eight months working on this project called 'UFOs: The Best Evidence.' Nine-part series. It airs on television, it's the biggest thing that's ever been produced for local TV, to this date, and still. "And, along the way, as I'm trying to find...telling the story about Bob Lazar, and his allegations about what was out there at S-4, near Area 51 - recovered discs, alien technology being reverse engineered - I'm looking for people who would support that. And I found about two dozen people, witnesses who had worked out there, who had seen bits and pieces, who could corroborate parts of what Bob had said about these kinds of craft being out there in the Nevada desert. But there wasn't anybody big picture who knew as much as Lazar claimed to have known, so I was still looking for them. "In 1990, I started working on a follow-up series to Best Evidence, looking for new witnesses. And I got a hint from an elected official that I had known, I'd covered him in Nevada politics. He says, 'You know, you should talk to my dad one of these days.' 'Your dad?' 'Yeah.' And he told me what the dad's name was and what he had done, what job he had had. And I said, 'Ah.' So I started stalking the guy. I just started showing up at events where I knew he would be. One of those events was a reunion for employees of EG&G." Corbell (JC): "So I'm assuming that this source was working within EG&G in some capacity, which is, by the way, who Bob [Lazar] said, hired him to go out to Site-4, S-4 at Area 51. So you're like, 'Okay, I can now find out if this is bullshit, or if there's an element of truth to it.' Do I have that right?" Knapp (GK): "Pretty much correct, yeah. So, I'm looking for someone whose credentials are impeccable. Unlike Bob, whose credentials were questioned, and people still attack him on where he went to school and where he worked, and was he at Los Alamos? This guy is documentable. There's a paper trail of where he worked, what he did. There's no question that he was in a position to know. He was the first general manager of EG&G in Nevada. His name was Al O'Donnell, and he has a prominent family. "When I heard that EG&G was having a reunion, I went there. We took a camera [and I figured], 'This is a great chance to get him on camera before I start asking him the questions I really want to ask.'" JC: "And when you say he is a general manager, like, does that give him certain roles and responsibilities that would give him insight? Like, he's not a secretary, so what does that mean?" GK: "He's the boss. He was the boss of the Nevada office. And I'll tell you a little bit about EG&G. So, it was a company that was created in Boston, right around the end of World War Two. Al O'Donnell had been in the Navy, serving during the war. He got out of the Navy while the war was still underway and went to work for a company called Raytheon, which became this massive, gigantic defense contractor that's still around today, still in Nevada in fact." JC: Yeah, they've got a big connection to the UFO topic, right? But, when you say Boston, like, where in Boston was it created?" GK: "Well, MIT is where the company was born. Edgerton, Germeshausen and Grier were the three guys, the EG&G in that. They were at MIT. Scientists, engineers, they created this company there. And Al O'Donnell, who had been working for Raytheon, working on the Manhattan Project. He didn't know he was working on the Manhattan Project, but they were building these devices, complex triggers, that allowed them to detonate nuclear weapons. He learned later what he was doing was part of the Manhattan Project. "He goes to MIT, starts working with EG&G. Their company in those days had, I think, 15 employees, Al said. So it was a very small startup. But it suddenly exploded because the American atomic program exploded in those years. In 1950, Harry Truman decides that we need a permanent, nuclear testing site somewhere in the continental U.S., so they looked at a bunch of places, and they settled on Nevada. "Prior to that, Al O'Donnell had been sent out to the Pacific. They had five of these massive, atomic bomb tests out in the Pacific, and they decided to move it into a continental U.S. location and Nevada's Test Site - it was called the Nevada Test Site in those days - was chosen. Al O'Donnell leads the exodus from Boston, out to Nevada. They start hiring engineers and scientists, physicists and other security, spies." JC: "What are they working on at this time when they make that move?" GK: "Atomic bombs. They're building, testing atomic bombs. EG&G was a really precise organization that was created in order to detonate, measure and photograph atomic weapons. If you look in the history of photography, you'll see some of these amazing photos that they took of, you know, water drops dropping in water and...they're pretty famous shots because of these cameras that they developed. And it was perfect for use and testing atomic weapons and documenting what the process was. "So, EG&G comes out to Las Vegas, they are the managers of the Nevada Test Site. They, subsequently, years later, become the managers of Area 51 when it opens in 1955. So Al O'Donnell is the top guy. He oversees the nuclear testing program out there, manages it for EG&G, works with the Atomic Energy Commission. He has a Top-Secret security clearance and he can go anywhere and see anything. There's, basically, no restrictions, nothing that is outside of his ability to find out and see." JC: "So, this is an impeccable resume. This is somebody who was in position to know, and would know if someone like Bob Lazar was telling the truth or not telling the truth. I find it, personally, humorous that EG&G was, its genesis, its seed, came from MIT, right?" GK: "So, late 1990 or early 1991, I'd have to look up the dates. But somewhere in there is this event, this EG&G reunion. I go there, we got a camera, I interview Al O'Donnell, introduce myself, and say, 'Hey, I'm really interested in this, can we continue this conversation?' So he invites me to his home. He says, 'Come on over, we'll arrange to come over on a Saturday or something. We'll sit down, I'll go through my scrapbooks and show you some documents and memorabilia and photos from that era.' I was like, 'Great.' "So I go to his house and meet this wife. And we sit down, he opens up these big scrapbooks, and he starts showing me all the stuff that he had done. Photos that had been taken out in the proximity of these gigantic nuclear tests. They had great stories about the camaraderie that developed among the engineers and scientists. And he's going through all this stuff and showing me all this. And I love it, I loved every bit of it. I've never had a bad day at the Nevada Test Site, by the way. Every time I've gone out there to do a story, it's just a terrific way to spend some time." JC: "Secrets should be kept, secrets are kept, and you are a proponent of keeping secrets when it's that kind of thing." GK: "Sure, absolutely. And I respected the boundaries that they set up for us in doing these kinds of stories. So I did go out to the Nevada Test Site a lot over the next 40 years or so and put together a lot of different stories. And they knew of my interest in that area that's just outside what the Nevada Test Site, a place called Area 51. In 1955, Area 51 was, basically, created and EG&G got the contract to manage Area 51, and had kept it for the next 30, 35 years. So, whatever went on out there, they had an inside knowledge of what was going on." JC: "So, you meet this guy, Al O'Donnell, for the first time when he's at this public thing. You probably say something like, 'Your son told me to talk to you,' or something. Whatever. It ends up, he invites you to his home, and you're going through scrapbooks, and he's showing you all this atomic testing stuff that he was involved in. GK: "Yeah, and I'm telling him, 'Boy, this is really interesting. That's fascinating. I'd love to do a story on it.' And after we're there for maybe two hours, he closes this one big scrapbook and he goes, 'You're not here to talk about this, are ya?' I said, 'Well, not exactly.' He says, 'I know what you're here to talk about. I know what you want to ask about.' And right about that point, his wife walks in and she says, 'Don't start telling them that stuff! Don't even tell him!' And he kind of joked about it.' JC: "What were you there to talk about?" GK: "UFOs, UFOs. Area 51, Bob Lazar, crashed saucers, reverse engineering, to see if he had any knowledge of that, because I'd been led to believe that he did. So he closes that book and he says, 'We'll have we'll get together another time and we'll talk about it in private.' And over the course of the next two years or so, he and I would meet at coffee shops and talk about it. And I would ask him questions, and really, it was like pulling teeth. He wanted to tell me stuff but he made me work at it." (AJ says his family was there for the confession. Knapp has over two years of meetings with him. A bit confusing.) GK: "And the condition was, I couldn't take any notes. I couldn't record it, I couldn't take any notes. So each time I'd meet with him, I'd rush back to my car and start scribbling notes on pieces of paper so I'd remember everything that he said. And the story that he told me, that evolved over those couple of years was pretty fantastic. "He said that they did have a flying saucer that had been recovered from New Mexico. I think he indicated that it had been taken from New Mexico to Wright Patterson Air Force Base, which is... He never said Roswell, but I think it was the Roswell incident is what he [was] talking about. And it confirmed some of the details about what we know, likely, happened with the Roswell craft." JC: "When he's telling you, 'We have recovered a craft,' did he say it like, this is secret, don't tell anybody?" GK: "Yeah, it was just for my knowledge, my background and information. It wasn't a story I could do then. We were negotiating about how, or when, or if I could ever use that information or make it public. He told me the details about this craft. He said that it had been stored at Indian Springs. Indian Springs is an Air Force Base that's been there for a long time. It's now called Creech. Indian Springs existed before Area 51 was made. "But he says it was there, they kept it there. It might have been in an underground facility, I'm not quite sure. But then when Area 51, after it opened in 1955, they moved it to an adjacent facility. He didn't say it was S-4, he didn't say it was Papoose, but I think that's what he's talking about. Papoose Lake is where Bob Lazar said he worked, and where they had built nine hangars underground, disguised to look like the desert, and where they had other recovered craft. "He says they worked on this recovered craft, reverse engineering, trying to figure out how it worked, who built it. Whether or not they could duplicate the technology because, apparently, they thought this was pretty advanced, and they'd like to be able to build more of 'em. "And he says it was a very closed program, very small. It was only, I think, five of them that were aware of it, at least in the early stages, that were working on this project. And it was very hush hush, and they didn't share it with anybody else in the company, or anybody else in the area, or the military. They just kept it to themselves. "So, after we're having these meetings - and I go back and write down all these notes and stuff, details about what he had shared with me - we have another meeting at a coffee shop, and I said, 'Well gosh, you know, aren't you worried that it would get out, that the word would get out?' "And he says to me, 'We were worried It would get out?' That's right. 'I mean, what...it? What do you mean, it?' It. Meaning a live being, they had a live being out there. I go, 'You had a live being, an alien as well?' [O'Donnell said], 'Tell you the truth, we didn't know what it was.' I said, 'You know, maybe it came from millions of miles away, out in space, and you're keeping it in a cage near Area 51?' He said, 'To tell you the truth, we couldn't communicate with it in the beginning. We didn't know what it was, we didn't know where it was from, and we didn't know what to do with it.'" JC: "When Al O'Donnell says to you, 'We had a live alien, a being,' obviously from another world, what was your feeling?" GK: "Well, I was overwhelmed, because it was, in effect, confirmation of things that I had come to believe, because of the reporting we'd already done. And then the evidence of cover ups and lies that had been told to the public. Here's this guy in a high position, with a high security clearance, telling me that it was true. That they really did have a craft and they had a being. "My second feeling was, one of overwhelming sadness for the being, whatever it was, you know, that was kept out there. I asked him, you know, what had happened to it, what became of it? He says, 'I don't know. I don't know whatever happened to it.' But it was out there for a while, alive, and eventually they figured out a way to communicate with it. "And so I asked him, 'Well, what did it look like?' And he made me guess, as he did with all these questions. He made me guess. He said, 'Well, it kinda looks like a certain political candidate.' I said, 'Well, who? A political candidate? Who?' And at the time, Ross Perot was running for president. He said, 'It looks like Ross Perot. A little skinny guy with a big ears and tiny head.' Not a classic Gray-looking alien, but a very odd-looking creature with really big ears, that looked like Ross Perot. And I laughed. "And so we had these conversations for a while, and I was blown away by the information that he shared. I took all these notes. I was hoping that someday, I might be able to get the information out. And I asked him, 'Look, you're getting up there in age. If I can't record something with you, could you record a statement to the effect of telling me the story on camera, and then when you pass on, I can have the tape?' And he said, 'Yeah,' he would do it." JC: "You know, look, I've heard a lot of wild stories that I can't verify. A guy's telling you something, and you get a sense as a journalist, when you go down a road with somebody, and you take your time and you vet it... Did you feel...I mean, is there any world where he's trying to f*ck with ya? Or is there a world where he's trying to, you know, dissuade...kind of put crazy information into your brain? Like, how did you feel when he was telling you this? Was he like, straight with you?" GK: "Yeah, he was very straightforward. And again, this was not information he was giving up, willingly. I mean, I had to really dig and coax and arm twist to get him to cough things up. And it was very slow-going over about a two-year period, maybe a little bit longer. And I know that this...you always have to be wary of people with different agendas and people that just make stuff up. I didn't get that sense from him because of his standing in the community. He had shared this story with members of his own family." JC: "And that's why they came to you, is because they kind of [gave] you a tip. And these members of his family, they're serious people, too." GK: "Yeah. One of his sons is an FBI agent, or was, he's passed on now. One was an elected official in Nevada. That was the one that gave me the tip." JC: So, I just want to nail this [down] so I understand. You were approached because he had shared this with his family, privately, and then you had to kind of coax to get through to him about the story?" GK: "Right." JC: "I think that's important because look, these things don't happen, like, people [don't] just come to us and say, you know, crazy stuff, and we're like, 'Hh, yeah, cool. Sounds good.' Like, the dynamic of that, socially, as a journalist, like getting in there, taking time. You know, we have to verify if what he said is true, and there are some major bombs coming about that. But it's like, that process is so important. "So here you are, you're sitting with him, he tells you now, they have a live alien. And you felt sad because you're an animal-rights activist, you love animals. I know with your cats at home and you've done horse stories and all the stories about like, the inhumane stuff to animals. So it made you personally sad, makes me sad, too now thinking about it." GK: Yeah. Well, we had these series of meetings, and then the last time we met, after he'd agreed to go ahead and record a tape - and give it to me after making an arrangement so I got it after he passed on - he said that he had been told to not talk to me anymore. He said he had been given a warning [and] it was not a good idea for him to talk to me any more about anything. Not just that topic, but anything." JC: "Well, who knows that you're talking? Who would warn him?" GK: "I don't know. I don't know. But you recall, back in those days, there was surveillance. We had our phones tapped at KLAS-TV. There were guys following us around. Me, Bob Lazar, Gene Huff, maybe Robert Bigelow." JC: "People were also coming to your news station, OSI. And they would come in and try to like, get to you and then they'd show you their card...and take it back. And you know your phones are tapped. So it's like, because of this story, all of a sudden you're on high alert. So, anybody could have called him, been watching you, had meetings with the guy. So what you're saying is one day he just said, 'I can't...I'm not allowed to talk to you any more.'" GK: "Yeah, I've been told not to talk to you anymore. I've been told not to."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2079616298435400152/amplify_video_thumb/2079612656366112768/img/mxq1uM4Cp0iG8pyw.jpg)
![OPERATION INDIGO SKYFALL (SKYNET) (Update 6/11/25) While Operation Indigo Skyfall is a program by the Anunnaki specifically to turn the global atmosphere into an electrolyte solution 'motherboard' that powers Skynet that's already fully online as of May 2020, it was preceded by a decades-long 3-pronged assault against the pineal glands of humankind. The thrust of all three programs combined are all about disconnecting people from their higher selves and to vastly reduce their intellect quotient to make them easily controlled, prior to the launch of Skynet. Understand the intense investment that has been funneled into destroying the very beings that paid the taxes (loosh) to fund these programs is more than the gross domestic products of multiple countries combined. At minimum, trillions $ pr year in 2025 dollars, for more than 80 years. If youโve ever seen chemtrails in your skies, youโve seen one of these programs in a bold, in-your-face, broad-daylight fashion. THREE-PRONGED ATTACK PREPARING FOR SKYNET #1 FLUORIDE = WATER CONTAMINATION In its first installation of what would ultimately become a nation-wide invasion of every metropolis, city, town and mud puddle in the US, fluoride was added to public water in Grand Rapids in 1945 to โfight tooth decayโ. Problem is, fluoride is actually nuclear waste used as rat poison. It is a known neurotoxin more harmful than lead & likened to the toxicity of arsenic for more than 100 years, causing brain damage, spinal cord & nerve networks destruction and has never been shown to diminish the onset of tooth decay. Which every dentist in the country would have banded together to put a stop to back then if it really did that. So who decided to put THAT into your drinking water exactly? Andrew Mellon, 33rd degree Scottish Wrong Freem@son. Shocking Dangers of Fluoride: cancerwisdom dot net; "There has never been a double-blind, randomized clinical trial for fluoridation's effectiveness." [In reality, fluoride itself has been shown to damage teeth in a totally different way than we get through eating, known as fluorosis. Also in reality, all tooth decay is 100% of the time, parasites, not โrotโ. They say sugar rots teeth; which is a lie. Sugar is a primary food of parasites, along with heavy metals. When you eat sugars then fail to immediately brush & floss, the parasites already in your body (and there are at least millions) rush to the crevices of your palate then wind up burrowing into your teethโs (actual crystals) valance bands, further destroying them each time the parasites defecate. Anytime you eat anything sugar or sweetened, ALWAYS mix it with an antiparasitic & immediately brush, or rinse your mouth with hydrogen peroxide afterward, never with mouthwash, which is also poison. I will be covering this extensively soon in my new article: ๐PARASITES] As explained in greater detail below in the whistleblower video, fluoride was used by the N@TZIs (Ashke-N@TZI Crypto J3ws that took over Germany then lead that country into WW2, posing as actual Germans, which they absolutely were not. See my article: ๐GERMANY WON WW2 for more) in concentration camps in the 1930s-40s to make prisoners docile. How does that work? Fluoride accumulates at, and attacks, the pineal gland of your body. This is the โantennaโ connection to your higher self that generates your reality. The pineal gland then fights back the fluoride toxin, moving it just outside of its โtheater of the mindโ and surrounds it to seal it off from attacking. This builds up a โcalcificationโ around the pineal gland, which acts as an insulator blocking your signal to the Primal Sound & Light Fields of the Deity Planes where your higher self has always been positioned, inside what is known in human terms as the Unified Field. [For more on the key function of the pineal gland, see my article: ๐ HOW THE HOLOGRAPHIC SIMULATION WORKS] #2 OPERATION INDIGO SKYFALL = AIR CONTAMINATION (not to be confused with Operation Indigo SkyFOLD which is just another red herring distraction to overcome the dissemination of the truth of this existential threat to all mankind.) Beginning as far back as 1972, Operation Indigo Skyfall chemtrail program is one of the most brutally-compartmentalized & ferociously classified operations of all-time. So secret, the tens of thousands of chemtrail jets across the world donโt even land on the continental United States, but refresh their death dust exclusively on private islands, outside of enforced laws. The first part of this program where strontium, barium & aluminum microparticles are being dumped onto all of the lands of earth that kill all life forms, including the trees and forests, is the obvious portion of your extermination, and even that is only a fraction of the story being applied to depopulate the plane(t) from reportedly 8B people (this is a lie, it was less than 5B in 2019) to just 500,000. The heavy metals being reported by laboratories are merely assaying the minerals themselves, not looking deeper into whatโs really going on. In reality, these are the minerals used in the manufacture of nanites that are often no larger than just 4 molecules in size. Each one programmed on a quantum level to interconnect with one another, forming larger and larger computer nodes, just like the massive white โantennasโ being removed from millions of clot-shot victims around the world since the final push to bring this program to completion began with the โCovidโ attempted genocide using mRNA bioweapons. Prior to the huge blood-clots (invasive man-made prions to take over the full functioning of the body) now being retrieved from cadavers and patients suffering this biological invasion, chemtrail direct effects were known as Morgellons Disease where tiny wire-like structures were coming out of peopleโs skin. However, the โdiseaseโ gaslighting was exposed when laboratories began placing them under powerful microscopes and finding they were individual nanotbots โholding handsโ to make up the โwiresโ that were now growing inside peopleโs bodies. Once zoomed in using scanning electron-microscopy to each one, they not only found the NAME of the companies behind each model, but even serial numbers printed in quantum-dots on their structures. You might recognize this one that clearly says NASA on its surface. The program of chemtrail nanites is to infiltrate the immune system of the human body and generate immunodeficiency so you are unable to fight off diseases and viruses. But there is another, even more primary mission for those molecular-sized robots; to collect at your pineal gland causing calcification and thus not only disrupting your entire system, but placing a crystalline โshellโ around it to cut off your โspiritualโ access to your higher self. Think of it like scrambling the signal of your cellphone if you had a direct line to โgodโ. As an aside, Cody Snodres, the independent contractor for the C ๐๏ธA of 20 years & hero whistleblower that broke the story of Operation Indigo Skyfall in 2018 in the video below, mentions pathogens being added to chemtrails. These have been solidly identified by labs as recently as a few months ago in late 2024 & again in Jan of 2025 when entire cities were enveloped by huge, totally dry, fog banks of particulates dropped from the skies that caused countless deaths from pneumonia. Referred to by people as โDragon Fogโ, the pathogens are actually Serratia Marcescens bacteria (another word for parasites, pathogens, microorganisms & viruses). While Iโm sure there have been other parasites added to chemtrails that attack the immune systems of humans and animals other than Serratia Marcescens, this particular species has been used by mil operations now as an ideal biological weapon and regularly upgraded now for many decades. Stay with me, Iโm getting to Skynet, but first I have to show you some of the foundational elements of how the invader races have reached this point where humans would have become so mentally effected by this unthinkably massive-scale attack on your pineal gland, they would become psychologically and emotionally unable to fight back, even if they ever did look up in the sky and cognitively register the fact that contrails (endothermic sublimation or โfogโ) emitted by the compressed-air turbines of jets dissipate in about 8-20 seconds, not hang in the air for hours and hours. [And for those now wondering what I mean about jets using compressed air as forward thrust in commercial passenger jets, thatโs a story that is going to surely hack you off when you find out that passenger jets have always been levitation/time crafts since they were introduced to the public in the 1940s. They donโt run on fuel, but on high-altitude atmospheric neutrino-to-ion conversion harvesting (also known as โSecondary Emissionsโ as well as โNeutrino Eventsโ). So every โfuel increaseโ markup for local and international flights has always been absolutely made-up, since what they run on is eternally-free energy. See my article for more: ๐JET FUEL HOAX] #3 M0NSANT0 = FOOD CONTAMINATION This company does *not make better-performing corn & veggies: it is a bioweapons company. John Francis Queeny, a Freem@son, that founded this genocidal operation in 1901 produces 90% of the worldโs genetically-altered seeds & is responsible for developing Agent Orange, a defoliant used during the Vietnam War, containing a highly toxic chemical known as dioxin that caused permanent health issues for thousands of war veterans. Later it used this same type of murderous chemical in Roundup to k!ll weeds around your home, coating your world with glyphosate that changes the sex in frogs and turns them ghey and sterile. Guess what other life forms it changes the sex in and makes them sterile? Ever witnessed the most celebrated triathlete of the 20th century suddenly pop up and claim he was now a โwomanโ? How about watching as our youngest generation enters the workforce, most of whom donโt even know what sex they are? Thatโs your M0nsanto working hard to ensure the human race is eradicated from the all-queer-all-the-time world Freem@sons envision as their true utopia in the โ500m sustainable populationโ as etched into granite on the Georgia Guidestones. A number mirrored by United Nationโs Agenda 2030 to be achieved by the year 2050. Their goal is literally ๐your depopulation and those that are left, will be 100% ghey. Diddly Parties nightly! GMO foods that are grown using M0nsantoโs โRoundup Readyโ fertilizer that is made with glyphosate toxins are absorbed by the gut and then travel directly to the pineal gland. This is the Anunnakiโs โTrifectaโ attack on your most precious organ of your body. The very organ that dictates all the parameters of your reality held within your Krystal Seed Atom Keylon you enter into manifestation with, commonly referred to as your โsoulโ. In more accurate terms, your Krystal Seed Atom is like a Bluetooth module that tethers your awareness from your higher self in the Primal Sound and Light Fields of the Deity Planes, to your physical avatar here on the ground through the wireless โpale silver cordโ. The Krystal Seed Atom is located in the middle of your pineal gland. [For more on the Krystal Seed Atom, see my articles: ๐THE HISTORY OF THE CHIMERA, & ๐THE KEYS TO HEAVEN] As Cody points out in the video, this is not a matter of hitting your pineal gland with three doses of toxins, but because of how these three chemicals of fluoride, nano aluminum & glyphosate interact with each other, creates synergy, or a dynamic magnification of the toxicity effect by a factor of 125x greater than any one individual dose would achieve. This makes the Trifecta assault astronomically devastating to your connection to the pale silver cord and your wireless connection to the โrealโ you thatโs running your avatar in the deity planes. Sort of like taking your 4 yr old to the mall and just letting them go on their own. Now, with your virtually disabled pineal gland reality-casting component out of the way, enter the true teeth behind Operation Indigo Skyfall; Skynet. SKYNET This is a subject I wonโt be able to offer much tangible, solid evidence on, as it goes deeply into quantum physics. All of which terms describing each step in the chain to achieve โif this, then thatโ, are shielded from public understanding by design. The power of computers is vastly beyond what the human mind has been given the ability to process, also by design. [As Iโve covered before, the Chimera brain you work with now, since the total body-invasion of the garden of E-Dan drama, is fitted with breaker switches that are designed to keep certain subjects hidden from your reality-view. When exposed to any of these, a switch is thrown at the base of the brain within the totally counterfeit โreptilian brainโ that introduces feral, animalistic type of wavelengths into your thought processes. The switch then disengages your sentient thoughts, shutting off either temporarily, or permanently, your processor (brain). Simply put: if you see a creature youโre not supposed to, or other โproprietaryโ mechanisms of the invader races (which are in fact all around you every minute of everyday) that doesnโt fit with the โMayberry RFDโ Chimera Reality simulation overlay, or if you experience too much trauma, you will simply black out, delete that memory when you wake up, or in extreme cases, pass away from fright. The realm of quantum computing will have the same effect on humans as well. You might learn all about the subject, but secretly in the background your memories will strangely be deleted next time you come back to it, unless your cells vibrate at a higher resonance than 7.83Hz. [For more on the inorganic organs now in our bodies, see my article: ๐HUMAN ALIEN IMPLANTS] Nonetheless, I can simplify the thrust of Skynet for you in broad terms here. Just understand that Skynet was explained to me in person by the keeper. I didnโt make Skynet up on my own, I wasnโt prompted by the Skynet mentioned in the documentary series The Terminator, and I certainly wasnโt prepared to learn there could be something as all-powerful reigning over our world. Chemtrails, besides dropping immune-system pathogens on you, cutting off your connection to your higher self through nano aluminum particles, contains other metals (nanites) that act together like salts in a body of water, turning the sky itself (also water, just very thinned down) into an electrolyte solution, meaning it can now conduct signals, just like a motherboard on a computer. The hard drive and RAM are already there in the form of deuterium microcrystals, absolutely saturating our skies at all times. Each crystal can be used for different applications, and many of them connected together through lensing (similar to network covalent bonding them together) can be combined to do heavy tasks, such as create hurricanes, floods, gale-force winds, everything you would ascribe to mother nature. But more than just that, Skynet is a โsentient quantum computerโ as explained to me, that can identify every person on earth instantly anywhere they are, because it is quantum-entangled to each personโs own unique DNA resonant frequency. This gives Skynet access to not only record every word you say, but every thought you think. This is done through Bloch Chain (Bloch Sphere entanglement technology that civilians call โblockchainโ) through using each person's blood samples from the bottom of their Long Form Certificate of Live Birth taken at the hospital, and further from 81.3% of the world population who took the convid tests that were also secretly the actual jab itself, in addition to genetic harvesting. Genealogy companies like 23andMe also provide genetic materials to Skynet to make it possible to not only track you, but 'turn you off' if you're from a bloodline the highest-up ETs don't want here. Further, its able to simply 'shut off' any part of your body, taking over complete control like an RC car, or, simply turn it off as mentioned a moment ago, as in unalived. And do so instantly no matter where they stand on or in earth. Since you are already a radio-controlled bioelectronic device, any cell in your body can be turned into anything, including c@ncer, or any disease you can name. It can also be turned into poison itself. [For a small addition to this topic, see my article: ๐SKYNET] NAME OF THE OPERATION Cody summarizes the name of Operation Indigo Skyfall as having come from the fact that all of the chemical effects it produces in the human body are focused to the pineal gland, and, in the energy centers of the 7 main chakras (these are toroidal energy generators along the spine and skeletal structure) that cast off differing colors of light as seen through photometers or electromagnetic frequency analyzers that are used to detect biophotons, the Third Eye chakra emitted by the pineal gland is factually Indigo in color. So thatโs what inspired this name of the operation. However, I would like to submit a different theory that links to the human Third Eye chakra, but actually originates from a different target: Indigos themselves. There are 500,000 โb00ts on the groundโ Indigos that have been assisting humans during their time of captivity now for hundreds of millions of years. You have called us witches & warlocks in the past, medicine men/women, Sufis, the Whirling Dervish, Indigos, Starseeds, Rainbow Children and many others, including Djedi Knights in more ancient times. They are actually known as the Guardian Alliance of the Emerald Covenant, peace-keepers of the โTuraneusiamโ Human Elohim Project. Indigos come into earthโs realm mind-wiped and alone, just as humans do. All they bring with them are slightly higher clair abilities they can use to fight an invisible war protecting the developing avatars from as much torture as they would otherwise experience. There is no group alive the invader races are more concerned about than Indigos, as if unified, there is no force on this plane that could stop them, and the invaders know it. What they fear is our higher frequency that gives us access to โcellular memoryโ that tells us weโre โon missionโ and the instinct of how to serve our roles. That is why Indigos are hunted down since before they are even born, by tracking their frequency, which is 250x higher than that of the Human Elohim. We are harvested for gov programs beginning at the time of birth & given to high ranking gov and Freem@son officials to raise and torture through MK-Ultra abuse, given friends, lovers & mates who are secretly handlers that torture us even more to keep us in line, and in many cases are abducted and placed into stasis in chambers such as at Project Stargate inside Cheyenne Mtn (N0RAD) as mentioned recently by the AI hybrid Agent Mockingbird stated from above-top-secret records there are tens of thousands of our โprimary bodiesโ being held there, sometimes then cloned as physical worker slaves, & sometimes our awarenesses are simply uploaded as โnodesโ into computer systems. My primary body is there right now in fact, and has been since the 1970s. I believe this is the genesis of the name Operation Indigo Skyfall, as we are their biggest threat. And since the 7.83Hz Hypnosis Program doesnโt work on us to render us totally disconnected from our higher selves like it does on humans, to me this makes more logical sense. You can decide that on your own. [For more on this subject, see my article: ๐7.83Hz HUMAN HYPNOSIS] The apocalypse we are in now is the final battle on Tara earth prior to the separation, so absolute, total control over the life force is critical to the Anunnaki to maximize the number of signature spirit essences who will be going with them to their new prison host in the Weasadrax time matrix. [For more on the separation and destinations, see my articles: ๐THE SEPARATION & also ๐DESTINATIONS AFTER THE SEPARATION] See Video: Operation Indigo Skyfall - Cody Snodgres๐ - On X, to search for my articles, simply type in the name of the piece, enter one space, then from: plus my username in parenthesis such as shown here: CASTING THE APOCALYPSE (from:iontecs_pemf) Off-site, you can look up any of my writings through this link below for my other more than 120 recent articles and many thousands of comments on X, regularly updated thanks to Justin This message will only be seen by your eyes if not shared, and if you want to reference this article again later, you will need to cut and paste it in your own notes off line, as it will surely be erased. This is the most accurate translation of these events I am aware of at this time.](https://image.24vids.com/tw-1933235180527104198/amplify_video_thumb/1933219857706913792/img/zNN_L4pappa0voKW.jpg)
