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JD Vance has spoken with David Grusch about Crash Retrival programs “I've talked to Dave before. I called him actually after he was on your podcast. So there's the crash retrieval stuff of whether that's that's real or not. There's the videos, right? There are all of these videos,... show more
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![[UAP], "were frying the equipment on the aircraft. Some of our most state-of-the-art technology." ~Luna (Note: Transcript is much longer than video clip below) 🤔 Luna: There Are No "Holy Shit" Videos That I've Seen That The Public Has Not 🤔 The 46 videos we requested, "have all now been declassified." ~Rep. Anna Paulina Luna "ALL 46 [videos] have not been released." ~Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell to Me (I'd like to get that clarified from Rep. Luna) "If they would release the things that I've seen, you would stay up at...you'd be up at night worrying about, or thinking about this stuff." ~Rep. Tim Burchett Press Office to Rob Finnerty And Burchett added that we'd, "come unglued." We also had this... "It was one of those moments where everyone in the room gasped. Everyone. Even the staffers who are like, the most skeptical people in the room just gasped when they saw that video. Because there's not a single aerial thing that can do something like that, that can pull that off." ~Rep. Eric Burlison (Has that video been released?) Compare that to what Luna said... Douthat: "Is there anything else out there (video-wise) that is like, a holy-shit moment?" Luna: "As far as a lot of the meat and potatoes that we've been able to see and gotten briefings on, it's, for the most part, been put out." (So nothing to keep us up at night or to make us come unglued, or...make us gasp. I appreciate her being level headed with that and not hyping it. So, what are Burlison and Burchett talking about? I have learned to see things for myself first before getting too excited about what others say about x, y and z. Some of those videos in the two releases ARE very interesting but nothing has kept me up at night or made me gasp. Do videos like that even exist? It's not the first time I've asked that question.) ~~~Extended Transcript from Segment~~~ Douthat: "You have had access, before these videos were released. In what context have you seen these videos before they were released? Luna: "So I went into the SCIF and...I went and actually observed and saw all the videos before they were released to go through, numerically, to make sure that those were the ones that correlated to the ones that we had actually put out in the request. So those have all now been declassified." Douthat: "All of the ones?" Luna: "Yeah, in the list." (Remember: Regarding the list of 46, Corbell told me that, ""ALL 46 [videos] have not been released.") Douthat: "But how did you get the list of videos in the request?" Luna: "We had a group that came forward, it was bipartisan, former whistleblowers from the intelligence community that had access to... I would compare it to something like YouTube that exists within the intelligence community. And they came up with the files, and they said you need to get access to these files and have them released. And so, before the order came out from the President, we had come up with this list. We had been getting push back, and then after [Trump] gave the green light for it, it was declassified, and those are now up and able to be [viewed] at the Department if War." Douthat: "And what do you think they show?" Luna: "Well, there's some interesting stuff. I think that they show UAPs. There has been one of the videos that has since been debunked to be actually the infrared that was picking up aircraft that was farther in distance, but the optics are kind of an illusion in that sense. So there's been one that's been debunked. But there are ones that they cannot explain. They've tried to cross-reference it with other data, and the way that these things are maneuvering are pretty wild. And so, again, I think that they show UAPs in some instances." Douthat: "Right. And you think that one reason to take this stuff seriously is that they correlate with direct-pilot testimony of the kind that you've heard, right. So it's not like, I'm just... Imagine the completely skeptical listener or viewer, of which there are reasonably many, who says, 'Okay, you have some number of videos, we don't know what they are, but if one of them turns out to be sort of some prosaic explanation, we can assume a lot of them will be.' So what else makes you think..." Luna: "In the specific incident of Eglin Air Force Base, which is where we had the pilot testimony and we were able to see some images, these things were frying the equipment on the aircraft. Some of our most state-of-the-art technology is getting completely fried." Douthat: "And this is something that pilots told you had happened to them? Luna: "Yes, yep. Now, the other issue is, sometimes pilots won't report because they don't want to be taken off flight status. So there's removing the stigma of if you're supposed to have safe flying. You want to also track national security issues. You have to be able to document this stuff. But when you have this type of stuff impacting military training, impacting flight operations, impacting our technology, it's a problem. "We should follow up, and then say, 'Okay, well, is this technology that, potentially, could be advanced tech from adversary nations? I don't, necessarily, think that's the case, because if that was true, we wouldn't be number one, currently. Some of this stuff that we're seeing is pretty wild. You saw the New York Times report (2017 and the Tic Tac ~Joe), and just how it's defying physics, if you will. But then the other aspect of, what can we as Congress do next? We can declassify. I don't think, you know, this aspect of people saying it's not enough..." Douthat: "Are there things that you've seen in a SCIF, or not in a SCIF, that are wilder than this (the videos that have already been released)? That would like, make the front page of the New York Times as, you know, no one can be skeptical anymore?" Luna: "No, I think the aspect of, do I have, you know, a location where there's a little green man on a slab in a fridge (laughs). I don't think I'm gonna get that (laughs)." Douthat: "Wait, we're gonna get to that. Just stick with the videos. Is there anything else out there that is like, a holy-shit moment?" Luna: "Well, I think that there's probably going to be some more release of other videos as well, other testimony. They're still combing. But, as far as a lot of the meat and potatoes that we've been able to see and gotten briefings on, it's, for the most part, been put out."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2064130794973774042/amplify_video_thumb/2063015130917732352/img/1I_Up7yZ_LcHIuXv.jpg)
![⾨ 🛸👽 Is Dr. Hal Puthoff a True Insider and Gatekeeper? 👽🛸 ⾨ "It SEEMS like there is that crash retrieval program." ~HP "I can't say that I personally have been absolutely briefed on the crash retrieval program." ~HP ~ Gerb on Fresh Freedom Podcast: "At the UAPDF → Disclosure Foundation event, you (Puthoff) stated, if you revealed everything you knew about the subject, you would go to jail. So, I'm gonna take that as assuming you may have worked in a specific-national-program capacity on such projects of exotic, or technologies of unknown origin." (It's well known that Puthoff was involved, via his company, EarthTech, as a subcontractor in the UFO program, AAWSAP. He was the Senior Science Advisor. He was also involved with the follow-up effort (not an official program) known as AATIP. And yes, much of what they worked on was classified, and as far as we know, that's still the case today. So, Puthoff just can't share all that he knows or learned from that, or he could go to jail. In theory. Was Puthoff read into some other UFO-related program or SAP that he's just not telling us about? It seems like that's what Gerb was insinuating. My opinion? I don't think so. And Puthoff explained where his knowledge comes from in this interview from January of 2025. Did Gerb not see this?) Dr. Hal Puthoff: "Well, a program like that, crash retrievals, and so on, and deep analysis. I mean, this is something that, if it's occurring, you know, is still behind the scenes and highly classified." (IF it's occurring.) Puthoff: "However, I've interacted with the various intelligence officers who've been given the job, officially - actual official jobs - to dig out what's true about the so-called Legacy programs and crash retrievals and so on." (He's saying that his knowledge of any UFO-related Legacy programs (including anything on crash retrievals) is based on what other people have told him.) Puthoff: "People like David Grusch, who appeared before Congress, under oath, and he made the statement that, in fact, there is a Legacy program, we do have access to crash-retrieved craft, even crash-retrieved biologics. Knowing him and where he came from...he was at the National Reconnaissance Office, National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, at the highest level of clearances." (Grusch is one person Puthoff references as a source for details on the alleged crash retrieval program. And as Grusch has said, most of what he (Grusch) learned was from talking to others who claimed they were firsthand folks who worked IN the Legacy program. Grusch sent some of those folks to the Inspector General so they could share what they know. So, with this specific information (minus whatever photos or reports Grusch saw), Grusch is a second hand witness and Puthoff is a third hand "witness." Puthoff: "[Grusch] interviewed, as he claimed in his statement before Congress, over 40 individuals over a four-year period, and all this data was collected together, and it seems like there is that crash retrieval program." (Even Hal uses the word "claimed" with Grusch, and he also uses words that tell us (unless you're going to accuse him of lying) that he has NOT been read into any of those programs. "Seems like there is that crash retrieval program." SEEMS.) Puthoff: "So although I can't say that I personally have been absolutely briefed on the crash retrieval program..." (Pretty important sentence right there. He has heard things from folks (like the late Jim Ryder of Lockheed?) who claimed to have worked in that program, but he hasn't officially been read in or had to sign any NDAs, so he can speak about some of it. See my post from yesterday where Grusch says he's lucky he never signed an NDA or he would have had to keep his mouth shut.) Puthoff: "...I've interacted with people like Grusch and many others whose...I just simply can't say I'm not hearing the truth. So, I would put my stamp on the idea that there is such a program." (He's making a judgment on what he has been told. Obviously, I can't 100% rule out that Puthoff hasn't had SOME access to some of this information, and maybe he's seen the same photos that Grusch and Davis have referenced, and Bigelow has hinted at in one of his interviews with George Knapp. But I don't believe Puthoff is on the very inside and just pretending that he's not. We still have yet to hear from someone who worked in those programs, hands on. And yes, I know Puthoff seemed confused when Gerb asked him about the Legacy program being shut down and the timing related to that. I hope The Good Trouble Show with Matt Ford asks Eric Davis about that today. Play the clip of it for Eric. And I also know that sometimes, based on Puthoff's words, it seems like he may be a firsthand witness, but I think that's him just being casual with his words. This interview from 2025 makes it pretty clear how he learned all of this information, or alleged information. My Opinion: Dr. Hal Puthoff has never been on the inside of any UFO-related Legacy program and he is NOT a gatekeeper.)](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2073806696078815538/amplify_video_thumb/2073804274254176256/img/lY8XEYm1uSZ45Ik6.jpg)
![Grusch on Rogan, re: Live Beings... "there was some details provided to me but it's like, it's secondary and I don't know if that's like, the telephone game and I don't know if it was hyperbolized." (What's changed since the Rogan interview? Rogan interview was 2023 and my post/transcript below was July 9th of this year. H/T: Lisa A Cariaggi for reminding me.) Rogan: "Are there discussions of interactions with live beings?" Grusch: "Uhh, there was some water-cooler talk about that kind of thing." Rogan: "But that's it?" Grusch: "But, you know, I don't even wanna get into it because it's like, uh, there was some details provided to me but it's like, it's secondary and I don't know if that's like, the telephone game and I don't know if it was hyperbolized in any way...um, you know, in the break room, so to speak. So I just... I'm so anal about making sure what I say is accurate...I don't, you know, I don't know." (Based on what he said there, it seems like he has NOT seen any evidence of live beings. If he now comes out and says that he has, it will seem like a flip flop.) [End my July-post excerpt.]](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2088066181521686598/amplify_video_thumb/2088065797881290752/img/gWRecWbC6-Zdm0lD.jpg)
![👽 Biological Analysis of Non-Human Bodies 👽 Avi: Was Grusch Shown Russian or Chinese Craft and Bodies of Foreign Adversaries, But Mistakenly Thought it was Aliens? Professor Avi Loeb: "Garry, there is one alternative interpretation. I truly believe the integrity and the truthfulness of David Grusch. But one possible interpretation that is nothing to do with alien technology would be to say, 'Of course there are projects that are retrieving material and biologics from crash sites, but these are of objects that came from adversarial nations. And then we want to figure [how to] the reverse engineer the technologies that those nations have. "And of course, there will be different types of aliens. These would be humans from different ethnic origins. And, of course, there are places where these are stored. And suppose people were talking about it with some code names, and David Grusch heard these reports, but it's not really aliens; it's actually human-made things. "So that's the only other, you know, interpretation I can give, assuming that he's telling us the truth, as he knows. So then the question is: How do we know if it's this interpretation or real aliens, non-human?" Nolan: "I agree completely. I agree." (I disagree completely. First off, I don't think the U.S. is in the business of showing photos and videos of dead, foreign adversaries to someone investigating the UFO subject. And I'm glad Peter Skafish - Peter Skafish - chimed in with his thoughts.) Skafish: "The counter argument to the possibility that everyone is confused here, which I don't believe is the case with David Grusch. I don't believe it's the case with Hal Puthoff. I don't believe it's the case with Eric Davis. And I could name you know 10 other people like that. "The counter argument is that you could very easily verify this by not going and looking in a hangar for some kind of piece of technology that wasn't anthropogenic. You simply could, internally, get the records that show there is such a program. It says it's about the following things: non-anthropogenic technology, for example, or, as we hear, off-world technology. Get enough confirmation from people internally that yes, that's what we work on. And then the matter is solved internally. "The question is, is how then do you communicate to the public that okay, yes, part of the intelligence community knows there are technologies not made by human beings? And I think that's where it comes to the natural sciences. As you all have pointed out in different ways, that even if all of that is true, verification will still need to come, publicly, from scientists." (IMO, the public is gonna need to see the evidence (bodies, craft, etc.) on display and hear analysis from independent experts as to why they feel it's non-human or anomalous in nature. Grusch referenced that type of analysis when he was on with Joe Rogan.) ~ Rogan: "When it comes to these...actual entities...do we have an understanding of how many of them we're talking about, and the variety of them?" Grusch: "There is a variety and we have a certain number of (laughs) different things... I talked to people who were familiar with the biological analysis of everything. So we have some idea, not a complete picture because it's like, you know, looking at it, it's like, well I don't even understand the physiology at all. It's like, what the heck? It's like way different, right? So..." Rogan: "Is there a description of this physiology?" Grusch: "Yeah, no, I was in the room when uhhh... I gotta be careful, I don't wanna... I was in Washington, DC with a very number of senior people that work for members of Congress (Senate staffers seems like a safe bet ~Joe). Put it that way. When I was still in government. And I brought the people who worked on that stuff to The Hill. And this is why the members were so confident to put out the Schumer amendment and stuff. And, I was like, 'Please explain.' And they went into all those details and stuff. And I remember (laughs) some of the professional staff members were like, 'Whoa.' Like they were like, in G-Loc, right? Cause, I mean, and like a total world bubble got burst right there for a lot of people." (To me, an alternative explanation - for Grusch and Davis saying they saw photos and reports (and in Grusch's case, videos, too) of non-human craft and bodies, and Semivan saying he's seen photos of craft and MAYBE bodies - is they were all shown fake photos, videos and reports. Is that even something that could be pulled off? Dr, James Lacatski, who ran AAWSAP, had this to say about forged documents.) Lacatski: "Okay, and I have seen, in multiple cases, what I would call, can only call forged documents. So..." Corbell: "Okay, so there's another thing we should talk about. So, what do you mean by that? There have been forged documents?" Licatski: "They're forged. They're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're... They're documents talking about programs that are not legitimate documents." Corbell: "Within intelligence servers, within your industry, there are forged documents inside of our government's intel, you know... Or what are you talking about? Just on the internet? Are you talking about..." Lacatski: "I'm talking about both." Corbell: "Really. What, how could that happen, forged documents inside our intelligence agency servers?" Lacatski: "Well, you know... They even covered this on an X-Files episode. Every Special Access Program has a counterintelligence officer. That's their job! You know, it's their job." (So the counterintelligence folks make up fake documents to throw adversaries off the trail in case they ever learn about the program or, God forbid, get access? I believe that's what he's saying.) Lacatski: "So, you know, you might say, 'Well, wait a minute, Jim, and Colm are counterintelligence officers.' No, we're not. You know, there's no reason to be. But, if you're in a program, you have that person either assigned to you, or you bring him in. And there's a source of forged documents right there. Have your listeners and readers go back through the UFO history and you'll see fingers pointing to others that, again, I won't name them, that, 'Hey, this is all fabricated.'" (Grusch, Davis and Semivan need to be asked about these alternative explanations.)](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2090530066879111312/amplify_video_thumb/2090511277454217216/img/bvDRsp8ZXHEOiRWg.jpg)
!["I'm telling the administration...that if they don't release those [videos I've seen], then I have the capabilities of getting those videos and releasing them." ~Burlison (Transcript and comments by me on one of my fav segments in a long time.) ~ Will Cain: "Missouri Republican Congressman, Rep. Eric Burlison, joins me now. Congressman, thanks for being with us here today. You and I, Congressman, I think we've had a very candid conversation together. We have both talked about the fact that I am open and curious about this subject of UAPs, but I do feel like we're at a place where evidence needs to start meeting expectations. What we've seen today, what does this tell us? Does this meet any expectation?" Burlison: "I think that there's...we have to take a step back and recognize the historic nature of this. Every president prior to President Trump has really demurred any kind of questions on this. They dismissed them, they would not talk about it. People would, if anything, snicker or sneer anytime this kind of subject came up. So the fact that we have a president who is open and willing and trying to be transparent is something to celebrate. "That being said, I think that this is a teaser, this is a kind of a, you know, something to open up with. This was the low-hanging fruit kind of videos and content for this administration to release. A lot of this has been...some of this has been out there before. It's not been acknowledged, right? So, you're looking at Apollo 17 video..." Cain: "I've seen the same thing said by Rep. Tim Burchett Press Office. That this is sort of the beginning, and there will be other releases that could leave Americans with a holy crap moment. I believe that's a direct quote from Congressman Tim Burchett." (This is what Burchett tweeted today: Burchett: "The 1st drop will be big but in comparison to what is coming they will be a drop in the bucket. I would say 'Holy Crap' is coming." I hope so. Or people are going to be upset that the videos and evidence didn't meet the hype, and you may see a lot of people losing interest in this topic. Last month, he told Elizabeth Vargas: “I’ve seen pictures and video of things that defy any reason that we have." ~Burchett And also last month, he told NEWSMAX: “If they would release the things that I've seen, you would stay up. You'd be up at night worrying about or thinking about this stuff... And for the record, I'm not suicidal and I don't take risks.” ~Burchett (That's some major hype there and, again, I hope future videos live up to it. I'm gonna guess that Burlison is NOT a fan of getting people's expectation up like that.) Cain: "My question for you, or the congressman, would be: Why? Why slow roll this out like it's a season of 'Game of Thrones'? Like, why would Episode 1 be somewhat uninspiring - leave us with more questions than answered - if there's something coming after the teaser? What's the point in staging the release?" Burlison: "So, again, this...just from talking with the White House and this administration, this is not an easy thing to do. There's not one huge repository of all of these documents and videos and photos. Despite what most people believe, they're really...at least we haven't found that one, you know, big repository. So what the Agency is doing is going and finding, first and foremost, the items that are readily available to be released. And they wanna be quick...move quickly and release those." (Okay, so they haven't located the best videos yet? Then what was Burchett shown? And if what he was shown is really THAT amazing, why haven't those videos or photos been released? Drip, drip? The excuse that they haven't been able to locate them yet doesn't hold water IF Burchett's take is accurate and they showed him SOMETHING that blew his mind and will blow our minds. Or, did he just hype it up and whatever he saw is really not that impressive? As I've asked several times in the past: Do these amazing videos actually exist?) Burlison: "I would ask you, would you prefer to have them wait for, you know, years, what would probably take years if they were to do a comprehensive study and then release it all at once, in one big batch? I would prefer that they release it as they find it, and I think that that's...this administration wants to be transparent and do that." (Great! How about releasing what Burchett was referring to in his interviews?) Cain: "My criticism is not for the decisions of the administration." (Well, if the Trump administration isn't releasing the best of the best videos that they already have in their possession because they're afraid of how Americans (and the world) might react (fear and panic), then they DO deserve some criticism, right?) Cain: "My criticism is for the expectation built by many out there that have these conversations, that there will soon be a bomb to drop when it comes to revelations about aliens." (Burchett, and then Rep. Anna Paulina Luna with her repeated comments about interdimensional beings. Luna: "...this is something you can go back and watch with the Congressional hearings - but I was actually able to ask some of the witnesses, 'What are these things?' And they keep saying interdimensional. "I wouldn't call them aliens. I really like what Grusch calls it. He says that they're interdimensional beings and he's very specific about that." Grusch has NEVER said that, nor has any witness who testified in front of Congress, so I have no idea where she's getting that from.) Cain: "And, if that's true, are we trying to prepare the American people with a slow drip, drip, drip tease of this stuff? If not, then Congressman, I would say, if this is all we've got, then I'm not sure that there's anything the American government really has that tells us anything about the existence of aliens? I'm just beginning to feel like this entire story is teased out always just beyond our reach." (That's why we need just ONE (for starters) clear and close-up video of an object performing maneuvers that we thought were impossible. And as of right now, we don't have that. I've said this many times. Does that type of video exist?) Burlison: "I can sense your frustration. I've experienced it personally myself. I've seen videos that I think are in the process of being declassified, so I think that there is more to come. If they're not going to be declassified, I'll probably do an effort to release them myself under Speech and Debate." (In short, the Speech or Debate clause says that a Senator or Representative can speak freely about anything, or share anything, in either house of Congress and have absolute immunity from civil or criminal liability. I'll link to an example in the replies.) Burlison: "But again, a lot of the footage that I've seen is similar to what has been released today. There's some that are pretty interesting, and especially given the environment and the circumstances of the videos. Whether they are videos of UAP that are flying around Russian submarines or a video of our aircraft that are firing on some of these UAPs? I've seen those kind of videos. And so I'm teasing that because I know that...I'm telling the administration, through you (Will Cain) at this moment, that if they don't release those, then I have the capabilities of getting those videos and releasing them." (How much better are those videos than what we've seen today?) Cain: "Can I say one more thing about this, congressman? I expect you and I will have much longer conversations like we have in the past, where we have fewer time constraints. But what I'm seeing here, and we're sharing today, and what's been released, there are probably hundreds, perhaps 1000s, of explanations for what we see on these video screens. They don't lead us directly to extraterrestrial or out-of-this-world explanations. "Is there something else? Is there some other proof that you've seen? Is there a more compelling video that can't be described or explained as a drone or a light refraction or any other thing. Again, I'm not cynically dismissing these things, as I've always mentioned to you. I'm open and curious. I just don't think the evidence is meeting the moment." (I agree with Cain. The government-released or government-acquired footage just doesn't get us over the hump with the masses and skeptics.) Burlison: "I think you and I are at the exact same place. I continue to look for these things and try to follow the narrative that people are saying. Follow the historical narrative that we have a crash retrieval program, and this is the kind of information I keep getting presented. It doesn't mean that we don't stop looking." Cain: "Fair." (If we have recovered craft and bodies of non-humans, and it can be PROVEN, then these videos from today will be forgotten instantly.) Burlison: "And I have...and so the White House and the ODNI is looking for the next places to go investigate. And I think that...and they've actually been open in asking me where those next places should be, and so we're offering..we're gonna be working to offer those locations. A lot of this, Will, is gonna be in the hands of these agencies that are quasi-private or private companies, and that's gonna be a harder dig for this, for this administration to do, but that's where I think we're gonna get to the truth." (Let's start with the "holy crap" videos Burchett hyped and saw and see if they are as good as he's claiming.) Cain: "Well, to his defense, the President hasn't made big promises about what this would reveal. I don't think I can say that about everyone who purports to have seen something that there are big revelations, and so far, the evidence in the videos haven't met the promises. I do hope we continue to see more, congressman. I hope you do fight so we can see more. Obviously, transparency and answers is what we're seeking here on what would be a gigantic issue. Congressman Burlison, thanks, as always, for your time." Burlison: "Anytime."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2052883224360268226/amplify_video_thumb/2052858049346588672/img/orKO2FR28wwc7S1J.jpg)
!["It's not a congressional program. Only the president can say anything about this." ~Semivan Semivan: Congress Doesn't Have the Right or Need-To-Know About a Crash Retrieval Program Thoughts? Grusch decided Congress had a need-to-know, and Congress hadn't been told. "Which I don't think was true." ~Semivan ~~~ Semivan: "Some of the congressmen now that are being briefed (laughs) on it are not very happy because they think they have a right to know this. And I like to point out, I spoke to a couple of the committees and I told them, 'Look, it's not a congressional program. It's an executive program, and it's run by the president and only the president can say anything about this. I can't say anything about it, the president has to come out.'" (Note: Semivan was careful to cover his azz and say these were answers about a, hypothetical, crash retrieval program. Although, from his past comments, I'm pretty sure he knows (or at least believes) it exists. See here: Semivan Blockbuster I know where the legacy programs are located. You should take [Grusch] and everything he says to the bank. It's our inalienable right to know about this. ) ~ Semivan: "It's what Dave Grusch said. Dave Grusch...worked for AARO (He meant the UAPTF) and he went to various intelligence agencies and questioned the people that were actually working on these programs. And they all told them the same thing, the same story. So he takes this back, and he decides Congress has a need-to-know, and Congress hasn't been told. Which I don't think was true. He didn't know that, but he thought the public also had a right to know. And I'm perfectly fine... He did the exact right thing you're supposed to do if you're a government employee if you think there's something going on that's not legal. And he did it the right way. So, I give him a load of credit for that. And then he explains what it was, and then he's briefing some of the congressmen on this. Now the congressmen are upset, saying, 'Well, wait a minute, we're in charge of spending for the government and what have you. We should have the ability to know this.' But what Congress doesn't realize is these programs, you know, they exist at a very, very high classified level. They're Special Access Programs, and I would say, maybe the Gang of Eight, if them, have the clearances to basically know of these programs. And even if they were to be told of the programs, they could never discuss it, nor could they ever debate it, publicly. It's not theirs to do. They would be told, officially, but just, you know, as a professional courtesy that these things are going on. "Don't forget, the CIA works directly for the President of the United States, all right? So if the CIA would be running this program (AFAIK, they are. ~Joe), they just, basically, talk to the president and the president talks to them. And those conversations are not subject to congressional notification, approval or anything else. And when CIA goes to the oversight committees and briefs their programs, the committees can't tell them, 'We don't like what you're doing.' Well, they can say that. But the only thing they can do, they can't stop the programs. All they can do is stop the funding. "So, you know, the intelligence agencies that work directly for the president answer to him and him only, really. They do tell Congress, because Congress does give them money and there is...that's been going on since 1975 now, and it's a great thing to do. And they've been very, very open and honest with Congress, and Congress, I think, has been wonderful about it. As a matter of fact, you know, Congress has, basically, said in some of these programs, 'Holy cow, this is great! Give a round of applause, you need more money, because what you guys are doing [is] great.' The relationship has always been very good. I thought, you know, between them." (But the folks in the intelligence agencies who are aware of the alleged Legacy UAP-related programs, do NOT tell Congress about them. Except, as Semivan said, MAYBE some members of the Gang of Eight. Certainly NOT members of Congress like Rep. Anna Paulina Luna or Rep. Eric Burlison. I think they have zero chance of being read in right now.) Semivan: "But that doesn't mean if the president, like Truman or Eisenhower, issued a presidential executive-action document or something along those lines, where he said, 'This is an extraordinary circumstance. I'm creating this super-secret thing that nobody gets to know about, not even Congress.' That's, basically, his...he can do that. That's in the power, that's in the Constitution. He has that right to do that without acknowledging." (THAT is how these alleged Legacy UAP programs are protected.) Semivan: "Now, has he (a president) done that without telling somebody? Probably there's one or two people in Congress that know about it at any given time. Maybe one or two people in the National Security Council know about it. Most presidents probably got a very generalized briefing on it, you know, saying, 'Yeah, this is real. If you wanna know more, we can tell you more. But, if you know more then you don't have plausible deniability anymore. And/or, you can't do anything about it anyway, because we don't understand it. But if something happens [and] we discover something that's groundbreaking or earth shattering, we'll come back and tell ya.' "So, imagine if you're a President of the United States. Do you really want to know this? Do you really want to have that hanging on your shoulders? I think not. Particularly when you have somebody else doing the job for you."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-1964791704948703671/amplify_video_thumb/1964765866677141504/img/Oc6iqDE9eLvsulqq.jpg)
![Abby Phillip: “Why can't [Trump] see this for what it is, which is a very real thing, not a hoax, with real victims, and with a lot of people potentially involved in something, none of whom have been held accountable?” Scott Jennings: “Well, the hoax is Democrats and others who have gone on television and either implied or worse that he had something to do with it. There's not a shred of evidence that he had anything to do with it, but that's what they want people to believe. That's the narrative that they are trying to get out there.” “That's the hoax. He's never said what happened to them as a hoax. In fact, there seems to be some shards of evidence in here that Trump may have been one of the people that turned in Jeffrey Epstein, which is why Epstein, according to some of the documents, apparently hated Donald Trump. And so the hoax is not that it happened. The hoax is what people are trying to imply or worse—”](https://image.24vids.com/tw-1990756273353118060/amplify_video_thumb/1990756117983444992/img/TjZy5lay5UFHiG19.jpg)
![Grusch: "I honestly would not be surprised [if humans are the product of genetic engineering]." Grusch on The Phenomenon: "They probably don't care. They're probably neutral at best, and maybe actually fearful of us in some sense." ~~~ David Grusch: "It's funny you mentioned the Fermi Paradox, and it's like, well, where are they? And, okay, well, you know, if you're sentient life, you're certainly gonna have sophisticated cover, concealment and deception techniques that goes back to like what Jacques Vallée's work is, where, you know, the phenomenon presenting itself in different ways. "But also, I live in the mountains of Colorado, right? So, there is a mountain-lion den about 10 miles from my house in Colorado, literally. There are lower, predatory sentience, I'm higher, predatory sentience. And I'm using this as a device or an analogy for NHI and us. "Well, on a day-to-day basis. I don't care what a mountain lion is doing. I may hike in that area to explore, but day-to-day, I'm afraid of it, and I don't care. And think about what humans might be, unfortunately, to some of these higher sentients where: 'This monkey has a nuke, holy shit! Keep them in the cage! We don't wanna go anywhere near them.' "And so people think that there would be some kind of open contact with some higher sentience that is either visiting Earth or from another dimension or whatever the origin is. But they probably don't care. They're probably neutral at best, and maybe actually fearful of us in some sense? Or, we're - personal opinion - the progeny of some experiment and it's almost like living in The Matrix, but it's not like an actual simulation. It's like, we want the simulation to go we don't wanna intercede because we wanna see what, you know, homo sapien sapien 2.0 is gonna do after the great flood, or something like that, right?" Joe Rogan: "Yeah, that's one of the more fascinating ideas, is that we're some sort of a product of genetic engineering." Grusch: "I honestly would not be surprised. I don't know that to be true." Rogan: "We're so different than everything else that's here. So different, so beyond different. I mean, there's not another primate that is even, reasonably, close."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2048844614380163551/amplify_video_thumb/2048830936956153856/img/9VCXP3d0Qw2LFwYy.jpg)