Justin Verlander on the biggest change in pitching since 2005: Analytics changed everything. Some of it's great. But JV says the danger now is analysts deciding whether a pitch is good based on the data, instead of how hitters actually react to it in games.

The way JV answeed everyone’s questions was extremely detailed and thoughtful. An absolute pro. No canned answers. I actually enjoyed standing in line just listening. (That’s almost never the case with me because I have the attention span of a 3 year old.)

I mean, he speaks truth. People care more about pitch ratings than they do results.

I think it's clearly a valid point of view and very well thought out. Good teams/coaches balance it, but it definitely can go too far one way or the other. It's a sport played by people, not computers.

He's right in the abstract. If he's talking about something specifically, I have no idea if he's right. As great as the modern metrics are, they can't capture everything (and they don't claim to). And deception is an extremely hard thing for the analytics to capture.

This is what’s wrong with baseball now. You can have an absolute shit outing as a pitcher and the stupid computer says your pitches were nasty. I don’t care what time we are in , the hitters swings will always tell a pitcher if his “stuff” is good! Thanks JV

I keep saying, the analytics and metrics aren’t the issue, the application of them is. There’s zero feel for the game being applied. Awesome to figure out how to throw a better slider. Not awesome throwing it out of context.

It's because analytics doesn't factor in the delivery, how well you hide the ball in your delivery,he deception in your arm and hand.

I’d love to hear more of this conversation. Anyone know where I could access it? Not many people I’d rather hear talk about this subject than Verlander.

I’ll put it all out in one long video. I also have his pitch grips etc

Awesome

This is why Jim Leyland trusted his gut with JV. Rarely was he wrong.

The change is the people that are making decisions. They don’t know better. Verlander can get them out anytime he wants without all the bullshit

Kinda like how they tell batters to keep swinging that way after going 0-16 with 10k’s . Analytically it’s the highest probability swing . 🤣🤣🤣 couple homers every thirty at bats and everything is right with the world to these 🤓

Did you ask any follow up questions? I would love to hear how that plays out. Are the players required to listen to the analysts? Can they can a pitch if they see it's getting hit around even if it's analytically sound?

🥹

Verlander is a feel guy. Love it⚾️💪!!!!

Analysts 👀👀 WTF

Well, let’s say there has been 0 change in pathomechanical applications! So, expect the same ol injuries !!!

Can’t wait for him to be on a broadcast someday

B2B years with a one of the worst starting rotations in baseball, yet David Stearns will still say Verlander is wrong

@tangotiger I wonder if that is true about analysts over a long enough sample size

That’s a great point

I don’t think this is an analytics problem, it’s a measurement problem. We’ve gotten really good at measuring what the ball does. We’re still getting better at measuring what the pitcher does. The next frontier is combining biomechanics, deception, bat tracking, and pitch metrics into one model instead of treating them separately.

@NikNunez520

@LanginTots13 There might be 15 different metrics that will tell you specifically how hitters react to pitches.

Sounds like a poor analyst. An analyst needs to also adapt to the changes happening on the ground.

omg how embarrassing the data will show how they react to it in games

But arguably it’s working though right? I I know it’s in tandem with how hitters have changed their style but it’s way harder to hit pitching nowadays

Seems like “how hitters react to a pitch” is valuable data?