Like, considering everything that they all know about Hydra infiltrating Shield, Ross tryna harness Hulk's power for US interesrs and all this other shit im not sure how this part of the conversation isnt a slam dunk for Steve's perspective.

"Bro its the UN its not SHIELD or Hydra" As if there weren't Hydra agents and sympathizers sprinkled throughout several governments, and these people are all at the end of the day politicians with agendas. Spare me lol

"Well Steve lied about Tony's parents deaths" Damn thats awful and also not what the Sokovia Accords were about.

"What if this panel sends us somewhere we don't think we should go? What if theres somewhere we need to go and they dont let us?"

"If we dont do this now its gonna happen to us later" Alright, man.

In a way, it kind of works as an example of leftist struggles. Like, Cap is ultimately CORRECT, but he is having trouble articulating the issues while holding to their principles. Meanwhile, their opposition has no such qualms. They were about to Guantanamo Wanda for NO REASON.

"She's not a US citizen and they dont grant Visas to weapons of Mass Destruction" Steve should've slapped the shit out of him for that idc.

@DixonBrandywine And dont forget she like 16 during that period

@MaceAhWindu @DixonBrandywine She was written as a teenager during aou and civil war. It got changed later on.

@MaceAhWindu @DixonBrandywine Steve literally says she a kid in civil war 😭?

@Ikigai_354 @MaceAhWindu TBF, I think Steve sees anyone under 50 as a kid. But that's not textual, so it's not definitive.

Because they need to try to present "both sides" even though one is clearly correct. Heck, the guy championing the other side breaks the rules he's advocating for IN THIS MOVIE.

Quite frankly that crack by Ross about the Avengers "misplacing" Thor and Banner was enough to put me in Steve's side.

A lot of folks that agree with the sokovia accords forget that the government tried to nuke New York in the first movie.

Like seriously 😭 Also- the US tried to fucking NUKE New York and the Gov has the gull to blame the (in comparison) few deaths on the Avengers.

Honestly Natasha’s point made most sense that way they wouldn’t be criminals and wouldn’t be government’s lapdogs

She had the most measured response which is also why it makes perfect sense why she switches sides to help Steve at the end. She was never really ideologically cool with it She was more worried about splitting the team up and losing the trust of the public

Steve was running off book unsanctioned ops in foreign countries to find the murderer of Tony’s parents using Tony’s money and equipment. Let’s not act like his hands are all that great either.

Yall keep doing this thing where you bring up Bucky unwillingly killing Tony's parents as a reason to support the Sokovia Accords when theyre completely different issues

My argument is that Steve’s hands may not be the best to be in because he has an agenda.

To make it funnier Ross is straight a bad guy who kept a mutated random civilian, a victim and tortured him for info to make weapons. Even making his condition worse We're supposed to feel bad leader wants revenge

Steve: “What if there’s someplace we need to be and they don’t let us” Infinity War comes and a major plot point is they go to Wakanda to sort out their Infinity Stone/Thanos problem bc wouldn’t you know it - the bureaucrats and Sec. Ross are getting in the way

Because it’s not about the US agenda for Tony, it’s about his guilt. I will say this again, with the exception of Rhodey, everyone on Team Iron man was there for an emotional reason.

i hated how condescending rhodes was in this movie too

Because that logic can be thrown back at Steve. All institutions can be corrupt. All people have agendas. Yet Steve wants the Avengers to be a global spanning vigilante army with zero oversight, when virtually every nation, including democratic ones, weren't comfortable with that

This movie makes Tony act super out of character and that’s one of the main reasons I don’t like it

I think its pretty in character for where he is at that time. He was guilty, not just over the death of the lady's son that confronted him but over Ultron and his years as a military weapons developer and this is his attempt at making it right in his mind.

The Civil War story of the comic was a bit more complicated because it involved a group of reality show teenage heroes fighting a supervillain whose power is exploding near an elementary school on camera and… well…

Okay I think ppl harp on Tony’s guilt too much and don’t understand what he’s trying to accomplish. Highlighted by his convo with cap b4 Zemo lets him loose. Tony wants the avengers to stay together. If you dont sign the accords every act of vigilantism is illegal.

agreed, this movie is a good litmus test for whether I should listen to your political opinions

Idk how anyone could listen to this conversation and be team ironman

This seems relevant to share

It’s weird that Tony forgot that the higher ups in shield was ready to nuke New York if not for him

Sorry but in any real capacity, a group of super powered mostly Americans led by a white American man with US flag colors saying “the safest hands are still our own and we aren’t accountable to 117 countries asking for sovereignty” is a bad look

this is a terrible argument. “run by people with agendas and agendas change” did steve not just change agendas and fight foriegn police and damage a city to help his terrorist friend? lets not act like everyone here doesnt do stuff for their own self interests

I think a lot of people gloss over that Tony Stark is scared. He was on that "armor around the world" trauma response shit, and it ate away at him until Thanos broke his spirit completely.

it was, Civil War was poorly written. They had a conflict presumed and a weak debate just to make it happen.

Did they seriously forget that they send a nuke to New York? Yeah the only right side is Team Cap

It is because the writers didn't write any good rebuttals in this scene.

Even without all of this being mentioned, Steve was still right. Steve knew that signing that meant they could no longer choose what and where they were going or doing. Tony took it as a moral make right for all the shit he did. Steve was on the right side of this thing.

Even funnier knowing Ross, who was keeping the Leader falsely imprisoned up to bleed for information, spearheaded this.

”The safest hands are our own” Im pretty sure Peggy and Howard also thought so to when they created the organisation he had to spend his last movie disbanding.

There was a fic I once read where Garfields Spiderman is tried to be recruited by Tony and register with the government and he refuses pointing out the government was literally infiltrated by Nazis until just before Civil War and he wasn’t gonna trust his secret identity to that.

I think it's too complex a situation to really universally say that one side is right and the other is wrong. Both have good and bad points, and neither side is being entirely objective about their motives.

It’s because this conversation is exactly about Ultron. Tony decides to be monitored by the government JUST because of Ultron. Because without those who control them, they can do too deliberate things to the point of destroying the earth.

Because the movie is fucking weak. It's all nonsense so they can fight each other but the excuse for it is ridiculous because it all could've been avoided over coffee.