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Loops vs. Graphs, clearly explained! loops are great, and they have a ceiling you can watch happen: a loop goes around. it produces, checks, corrects, and goes around again. after six passes you have one job, done very well. after six hundred passes you still have one job, done... very well. Graph engineering fixes this by moving the decision up a layer: not how well one job gets done, but which jobs exist to be done at all. you need both, and here is the sentence that resolves the whole confusion: the loop lives inside a node. the graph lives between them. ↳ inside one unit: produce, check, correct, repeat until green ↳ between units: split, fan out, merge, gate, send back Prompts → Context → Harness → Loops → Graphs the loop does not go away when you build a graph. it moves inside, and now there are three of them running at once on three things you would never have thought to run. the trick is being selective about what becomes a node. only spend a model where judgment lives. merging, ranking, deduping and schema checks are edges, and edges are code. free, instant, and they cannot be argued out of a verdict. one thing to know before you scale it. a loop that cannot fail is not a loop, it is a repeat with a bill attached. and the check people write is almost always the wrong kind. ↳ the test suite exits 0 is a check. the diff touches only the files in the plan is a check ↳ the output looks good, the model says it is confident, no errors were raised, none of those are checks that last one catches careful people. absence of an error is not evidence of correctness, and a loop built on it will confidently repeat a mistake until the budget runs out, with a clean log the whole way. and the one that eats whole nights: when a unit fails, return that unit, not the batch. send back four slices because one failed and you have just rewritten three correct ones. do it twice in a run and the run never converges. below i have quoted my full guide on graph engineering. it covers the three topologies, the verifier patterns, and where the gate should actually open. save this and read it below ↓show more

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Loops vs. Graphs, clearly explained! loops are great, but they have a ceiling: a loop makes one unit of work better. it cannot decide which units exist. so you end up with a very good agent running the wrong three steps, in the wrong order, one at a time. Graph engineering fixes this by moving the decision up a layer: what runs, what runs at the same time, and what never runs at all. you need both. here's how it works: a graph splits your system into two kinds of decision. ↳ inside a unit: the loop. produce, check, correct, repeat until green ↳ between units: the graph. split, fan out, merge, gate, send back Prompts → Context → Harness → Loops → Graphs you get parallel work, isolated contexts, and steps that stop running when nothing needs them. the trick is being selective about what becomes a node. only spend a model where judgment lives. merging, ranking, deduping and schema checks are edges, and edges are code. free, instant, and they cannot be argued out of a verdict. a graph where every edge is an agent pays rent on its own wiring. one thing to know before you scale it. a graph has two return paths, and almost everyone builds one. ↳ the correction edge is short. a gate rejects one unit back to the step that produced it, and it fixes the run you are in ↳ the learning edge is long. an accepted result goes back to the splitter as a constraint, and it fixes every run after skip the second and you get a graph that is fast and never gets smarter. next week it starts from the same place with the same blind spots. and a smaller one that eats whole nights: when a unit fails, return that unit, not the batch. send back four slices because one failed and you have just rewritten three correct ones. do it twice in a run and the run never converges. below i have quoted my full guide on graph engineering. it covers the three topologies, the verifier patterns, and where the gate should actually open. save this and read it below ↓

Loops vs. Graphs, clearly explained! loops are great, but they have a ceiling: a loop makes one unit of work better. it cannot decide which units exist. so you end up with a very good agent running the wrong three steps, in the wrong order, one at a time. Graph engineering fixes this by moving the decision up a layer: what runs, what runs at the same time, and what never runs at all. you need both. here's how it works: a graph splits your system into two kinds of decision. ↳ inside a unit: the loop. produce, check, correct, repeat until green ↳ between units: the graph. split, fan out, merge, gate, send back Prompts → Context → Harness → Loops → Graphs you get parallel work, isolated contexts, and steps that stop running when nothing needs them. the trick is being selective about what becomes a node. only spend a model where judgment lives. merging, ranking, deduping and schema checks are edges, and edges are code. free, instant, and they cannot be argued out of a verdict. a graph where every edge is an agent pays rent on its own wiring. one thing to know before you scale it. a graph has two return paths, and almost everyone builds one. ↳ the correction edge is short. a gate rejects one unit back to the step that produced it, and it fixes the run you are in ↳ the learning edge is long. an accepted result goes back to the splitter as a constraint, and it fixes every run after skip the second and you get a graph that is fast and never gets smarter. next week it starts from the same place with the same blind spots. and a smaller one that eats whole nights: when a unit fails, return that unit, not the batch. send back four slices because one failed and you have just rewritten three correct ones. do it twice in a run and the run never converges. below i have quoted my full guide on graph engineering. it covers the three topologies, the verifier patterns, and where the gate should actually open. save this and read it below ↓

Hanako

73,867 Aufrufe • vor 22 Tagen

Agents vs. Graphs, clearly explained! spawning more agents is great, but it has a ceiling nobody says out loud: five agents is a count. a graph is a shape. only one of them changes the answer. point five agents at the same pile with the same window and they converge. the first one writes a finding, the rest read it, and all five reports centre on the same thing. you paid five times for one opinion with four echoes. Graph engineering fixes this by moving the decision up a layer: not how many agents, but who is allowed to look at what. you need both. here's how it works: ↳ the count buys you throughput. five things happening instead of one ↳ the shape buys you coverage. five different things happening instead of the same one five times Prompts → Context → Harness → Agents → Graphs the node that does this is the splitter, and it decides more than any other node in the system. cut a repository by folder and four workers audit the same three files. cut it by blast radius and each one sees something the others cannot. the trick is being selective about what each lane is allowed to see. separate contexts are not a nice-to-have, they are the mechanism. if two agents are meant to produce different things, they must not share a window. if they are meant to produce the same thing, you did not need two agents. one thing to know before you scale it. a branch that throws does not reject the batch. it resolves to null, and that is the containment. which means your merge quietly receives a short list. ↳ filter the nulls before the merge, or one dead lane poisons the whole result ↳ never index a merge by position. eight good branches and one failure will shift everything by one, silently skip that and the run looks like it worked. the output is just missing a lane, and nothing errored. and the one that eats whole nights: multi-agent setups can use up to fifteen times the total tokens of a single chat, because every lane reloads its own core. you are trading total tokens for a clean main window. usually the right trade, always a choice. below i have quoted my full guide on graph engineering. it covers the three topologies, the verifier patterns, and where the gate should actually open. save this and read it below ↓

Agents vs. Graphs, clearly explained! spawning more agents is great, but it has a ceiling nobody says out loud: five agents is a count. a graph is a shape. only one of them changes the answer. point five agents at the same pile with the same window and they converge. the first one writes a finding, the rest read it, and all five reports centre on the same thing. you paid five times for one opinion with four echoes. Graph engineering fixes this by moving the decision up a layer: not how many agents, but who is allowed to look at what. you need both. here's how it works: ↳ the count buys you throughput. five things happening instead of one ↳ the shape buys you coverage. five different things happening instead of the same one five times Prompts → Context → Harness → Agents → Graphs the node that does this is the splitter, and it decides more than any other node in the system. cut a repository by folder and four workers audit the same three files. cut it by blast radius and each one sees something the others cannot. the trick is being selective about what each lane is allowed to see. separate contexts are not a nice-to-have, they are the mechanism. if two agents are meant to produce different things, they must not share a window. if they are meant to produce the same thing, you did not need two agents. one thing to know before you scale it. a branch that throws does not reject the batch. it resolves to null, and that is the containment. which means your merge quietly receives a short list. ↳ filter the nulls before the merge, or one dead lane poisons the whole result ↳ never index a merge by position. eight good branches and one failure will shift everything by one, silently skip that and the run looks like it worked. the output is just missing a lane, and nothing errored. and the one that eats whole nights: multi-agent setups can use up to fifteen times the total tokens of a single chat, because every lane reloads its own core. you are trading total tokens for a clean main window. usually the right trade, always a choice. below i have quoted my full guide on graph engineering. it covers the three topologies, the verifier patterns, and where the gate should actually open. save this and read it below ↓

Hanako

96,243 Aufrufe • vor 19 Tagen

Context vs. Graphs, clearly explained! context engineering is great, but it has a ceiling: you can make one window perfect. there is still only one of it. every technique on that layer is rationing the same scarce thing. compact, retrieve less, delete, defer. all of it is deciding what to drop. Graph engineering fixes this by moving the decision up a layer: not what goes in the window, but how many windows there are and what each one is for. you need both. here's how it works: ↳ inside a window: context engineering. what loads, in what order, what gets compacted ↳ between windows: the graph. how many lanes, what each one is allowed to see, what comes back Prompts → Context → Harness → Loops → Graphs each lane gets a clean window, nothing in one competes with anything in another, and your main thread stops filling up. the trick is being selective about what comes back. a subagent reads six thousand tokens of files and hands you a four hundred token summary. that ratio is the whole point. send back the raw material instead and you have moved the problem, not solved it. one thing to know before you scale it. not everything survives compaction equally, and almost nobody knows the table. ↳ the project-root rules file and auto memory are re-injected from disk. they come back intact ↳ path-scoped rules and nested rules files live in message history. they get summarized away and do not return until a matching file is read again so a rule that genuinely must persist cannot be path-scoped. move it to the root and pay the always-loaded cost, or accept that it is advisory in any long session. and the one that eats whole nights: shared context makes parallel agents converge. four auditors on one window produce one opinion with three echoes. you paid four times for it. below i have quoted my full guide on graph engineering. it covers the three topologies, the verifier patterns, and where the gate should actually open. save this and read it below ↓

Context vs. Graphs, clearly explained! context engineering is great, but it has a ceiling: you can make one window perfect. there is still only one of it. every technique on that layer is rationing the same scarce thing. compact, retrieve less, delete, defer. all of it is deciding what to drop. Graph engineering fixes this by moving the decision up a layer: not what goes in the window, but how many windows there are and what each one is for. you need both. here's how it works: ↳ inside a window: context engineering. what loads, in what order, what gets compacted ↳ between windows: the graph. how many lanes, what each one is allowed to see, what comes back Prompts → Context → Harness → Loops → Graphs each lane gets a clean window, nothing in one competes with anything in another, and your main thread stops filling up. the trick is being selective about what comes back. a subagent reads six thousand tokens of files and hands you a four hundred token summary. that ratio is the whole point. send back the raw material instead and you have moved the problem, not solved it. one thing to know before you scale it. not everything survives compaction equally, and almost nobody knows the table. ↳ the project-root rules file and auto memory are re-injected from disk. they come back intact ↳ path-scoped rules and nested rules files live in message history. they get summarized away and do not return until a matching file is read again so a rule that genuinely must persist cannot be path-scoped. move it to the root and pay the always-loaded cost, or accept that it is advisory in any long session. and the one that eats whole nights: shared context makes parallel agents converge. four auditors on one window produce one opinion with three echoes. you paid four times for it. below i have quoted my full guide on graph engineering. it covers the three topologies, the verifier patterns, and where the gate should actually open. save this and read it below ↓

Hanako

36,970 Aufrufe • vor 20 Tagen

Memory vs. Graphs, clearly explained! memory is great, and the ceiling arrives quietly: it stores what happened. it does not store what to do about it. six runs later your file has fifty lines, and the model reloads all of them before it does anything. Graph engineering fixes this by changing what memory is: not a place things are kept, but an edge that runs backwards. you need both, and here is the sentence that resolves the whole confusion: a store keeps what happened. an edge keeps what to do about it. ↳ a store grows with every run, and every line is reloaded before the next one ↳ an edge carries one derived rule, and the rule replaces the run that produced it Prompts → Context → Harness → Loops → Graphs the transcript goes away, the constraint stays. and the constraint is smaller, because "adapters preserve keyword args exactly" is four hundred tokens shorter than the run that proved it. the same four blocks work on anything you can cut into lanes. i pointed them at token launches on Robinhood Chain, open source, nothing leaves your terminal the trick is knowing what deserves to survive. an output is not memory. "ported the utils slice, green on first pass" tells the next run nothing it can act on. the rule you derived from it does. one thing to know before you scale it. what you write down is not what comes back. ↳ the root rules file and auto memory are re-injected from disk. they come back intact, every time ↳ path-scoped rules live in message history. they get summarized away and do not return until a matching file is read again so a rule that must persist cannot be path-scoped. move it to the root and pay the always-loaded cost, or accept that it is advisory in any long session. and the one that eats whole nights: a memory file that has never had a line deleted is not memory. it is a tax on every run you will ever make, and nobody reads it back. below i have quoted my full guide on graph engineering. it covers the three topologies, the verifier patterns, and where the gate should actually open. save this, and the repo that runs it is below ↓

Memory vs. Graphs, clearly explained! memory is great, and the ceiling arrives quietly: it stores what happened. it does not store what to do about it. six runs later your file has fifty lines, and the model reloads all of them before it does anything. Graph engineering fixes this by changing what memory is: not a place things are kept, but an edge that runs backwards. you need both, and here is the sentence that resolves the whole confusion: a store keeps what happened. an edge keeps what to do about it. ↳ a store grows with every run, and every line is reloaded before the next one ↳ an edge carries one derived rule, and the rule replaces the run that produced it Prompts → Context → Harness → Loops → Graphs the transcript goes away, the constraint stays. and the constraint is smaller, because "adapters preserve keyword args exactly" is four hundred tokens shorter than the run that proved it. the same four blocks work on anything you can cut into lanes. i pointed them at token launches on Robinhood Chain, open source, nothing leaves your terminal the trick is knowing what deserves to survive. an output is not memory. "ported the utils slice, green on first pass" tells the next run nothing it can act on. the rule you derived from it does. one thing to know before you scale it. what you write down is not what comes back. ↳ the root rules file and auto memory are re-injected from disk. they come back intact, every time ↳ path-scoped rules live in message history. they get summarized away and do not return until a matching file is read again so a rule that must persist cannot be path-scoped. move it to the root and pay the always-loaded cost, or accept that it is advisory in any long session. and the one that eats whole nights: a memory file that has never had a line deleted is not memory. it is a tax on every run you will ever make, and nobody reads it back. below i have quoted my full guide on graph engineering. it covers the three topologies, the verifier patterns, and where the gate should actually open. save this, and the repo that runs it is below ↓

Hanako

47,331 Aufrufe • vor 4 Tagen

FIVE LAYERS OF AGENT ENGINEERING, EACH ONE WRAPS THE ONE BELOW IT. IF YOU SKIP LAYER 2, YOUR LAYER 5 WILL LOOK BROKEN WHEN IT IS ACTUALLY JUST STANDING ON NOTHING. for weeks i debated harness vs loop vs graph like they were competing choices. then a stack diagram made the shape obvious. they are not choices. they are floors. 01 | prompt engineering. the message. unit of work: one input. inputs are role, instructions, examples, format. output is a single raw response. 02 | context engineering. the memory. unit of work: what stays in the window. a curator selects, compresses, and drops from query, docs, memory, prior turns, and tool outputs before the prompt runs. 03 | harness engineering. the machine. unit of work: the machine itself. gather (context + prompt) → LLM → tools or sub-agents → verifier → final response. the article calls this the operating environment. 04 | loop engineering. the system. unit of work: the run. goal + success criteria + max iterations + budget + completion check wrap around one harness pass. failed pass appends results to context and retries. 05 | graph engineering. the topology. unit of work: the graph run. goal + nodes + edges + state schema. graph routes to agent nodes, tool nodes, or human approval. a reviewer node with a different model and fresh context checks the final answer. the wrapping is the whole point. layer 5 assumes layer 4 works. layer 4 assumes layer 3 works. skip layer 2 and layer 3's verifier keeps failing without a clear reason. this is why swapping the model is a one-day project and swapping the stack is a quarter. the model is the commodity. the five layers around it are the engineering. full three-layer breakdown of the top of the stack (harness, loop, graph) in the post below.

FIVE LAYERS OF AGENT ENGINEERING, EACH ONE WRAPS THE ONE BELOW IT. IF YOU SKIP LAYER 2, YOUR LAYER 5 WILL LOOK BROKEN WHEN IT IS ACTUALLY JUST STANDING ON NOTHING. for weeks i debated harness vs loop vs graph like they were competing choices. then a stack diagram made the shape obvious. they are not choices. they are floors. 01 | prompt engineering. the message. unit of work: one input. inputs are role, instructions, examples, format. output is a single raw response. 02 | context engineering. the memory. unit of work: what stays in the window. a curator selects, compresses, and drops from query, docs, memory, prior turns, and tool outputs before the prompt runs. 03 | harness engineering. the machine. unit of work: the machine itself. gather (context + prompt) → LLM → tools or sub-agents → verifier → final response. the article calls this the operating environment. 04 | loop engineering. the system. unit of work: the run. goal + success criteria + max iterations + budget + completion check wrap around one harness pass. failed pass appends results to context and retries. 05 | graph engineering. the topology. unit of work: the graph run. goal + nodes + edges + state schema. graph routes to agent nodes, tool nodes, or human approval. a reviewer node with a different model and fresh context checks the final answer. the wrapping is the whole point. layer 5 assumes layer 4 works. layer 4 assumes layer 3 works. skip layer 2 and layer 3's verifier keeps failing without a clear reason. this is why swapping the model is a one-day project and swapping the stack is a quarter. the model is the commodity. the five layers around it are the engineering. full three-layer breakdown of the top of the stack (harness, loop, graph) in the post below.

kocer

30,675 Aufrufe • vor 12 Tagen

Boris Cherny runs Claude Code at Anthropic. His line should stop you mid-scroll: "I don't prompt Claude anymore. I have loops running that prompt Claude and figure out what to do. My job is to write loops." The skill moved. From writing prompts to building the loop around them. A loop that works has three things. Drop one and it burns money in circles. 1. A finish line it can prove. Tests pass or they fail. "Looks done" is not a finish line. 2. A checker that did not write the code. A model grading itself always says yes. 3. Brakes set before you start. A step limit. A money ceiling. A stop condition. That is the whole game. The loop does the work. You design the cage it runs in. Full breakdown below.

Boris Cherny runs Claude Code at Anthropic. His line should stop you mid-scroll: "I don't prompt Claude anymore. I have loops running that prompt Claude and figure out what to do. My job is to write loops." The skill moved. From writing prompts to building the loop around them. A loop that works has three things. Drop one and it burns money in circles. 1. A finish line it can prove. Tests pass or they fail. "Looks done" is not a finish line. 2. A checker that did not write the code. A model grading itself always says yes. 3. Brakes set before you start. A step limit. A money ceiling. A stop condition. That is the whole game. The loop does the work. You design the cage it runs in. Full breakdown below.

shmidt

16,085 Aufrufe • vor 2 Monaten

the loop is not the whole agent it is only one layer of the system LOOP vs GRAPH vs HARNESS ENGINEERING LOOP ENGINEERING controls iteration turns retries budgets stop conditions success checks stalled progress use durable execution when the run must survive crashes → GRAPH ENGINEERING controls structure nodes edges state branches checkpoints routing handoffs build stateful agents as explicit graphs → inspect the topology without putting a model in the loop → HARNESS ENGINEERING controls exposure tools permissions memory sandboxes evals traces humans isolate generated code from the host machine → test behavior before users ever see it → preserve one trace across every model step and tool call → without loop control it keeps running without graph structure the path stays invisible without harness control it can reach anything the loop runs inside the graph the graph runs inside the harness the model is only one component debug the layer that actually owns the failure save this then read the article below

the loop is not the whole agent it is only one layer of the system LOOP vs GRAPH vs HARNESS ENGINEERING LOOP ENGINEERING controls iteration turns retries budgets stop conditions success checks stalled progress use durable execution when the run must survive crashes → GRAPH ENGINEERING controls structure nodes edges state branches checkpoints routing handoffs build stateful agents as explicit graphs → inspect the topology without putting a model in the loop → HARNESS ENGINEERING controls exposure tools permissions memory sandboxes evals traces humans isolate generated code from the host machine → test behavior before users ever see it → preserve one trace across every model step and tool call → without loop control it keeps running without graph structure the path stays invisible without harness control it can reach anything the loop runs inside the graph the graph runs inside the harness the model is only one component debug the layer that actually owns the failure save this then read the article below

rari

20,934 Aufrufe • vor 1 Monat

ChatGPT can write you a thousand trading strategies from one sentence. 999 will quietly bleed your account dry. Every single one of them looks like a winner. One method pulls the real one out. Quant desks have run it for years. It's called loop engineering. It's not a smarter prompt. It's a loop: generate a strategy, test it, score why it failed, feed that back, and run it again until one survives data it has never seen. Man Group runs $150 billion. They built an AI that writes and tests hundreds of strategies a week. And second agent whose only job is to hunt the ones that secretly overfit and kill them before a cent goes live. > describe an idea -> backtest 5 years in 12 seconds > read why it died -> feed that back in > run it again until one survives data it never saw AI can write a thousand strategies. Loop engineering is the only thing that tells you which one was ever real. 89% of retail lost money in 2025. Almost none of it from bad ideas. All of it from trading the first guess and never running it through backtest loop. Horizon just put the whole thing in a chat box, free while the beta's open: You're not losing to smarter traders. You're losing to the ones who opened the tab. Anyone can generate a strategy now. Almost no one runs the loop that proves it. That gap is the whole edge. You'll mean to check it later. Later is a "waitlist closed" page.

ChatGPT can write you a thousand trading strategies from one sentence. 999 will quietly bleed your account dry. Every single one of them looks like a winner. One method pulls the real one out. Quant desks have run it for years. It's called loop engineering. It's not a smarter prompt. It's a loop: generate a strategy, test it, score why it failed, feed that back, and run it again until one survives data it has never seen. Man Group runs $150 billion. They built an AI that writes and tests hundreds of strategies a week. And second agent whose only job is to hunt the ones that secretly overfit and kill them before a cent goes live. > describe an idea -> backtest 5 years in 12 seconds > read why it died -> feed that back in > run it again until one survives data it never saw AI can write a thousand strategies. Loop engineering is the only thing that tells you which one was ever real. 89% of retail lost money in 2025. Almost none of it from bad ideas. All of it from trading the first guess and never running it through backtest loop. Horizon just put the whole thing in a chat box, free while the beta's open: You're not losing to smarter traders. You're losing to the ones who opened the tab. Anyone can generate a strategy now. Almost no one runs the loop that proves it. That gap is the whole edge. You'll mean to check it later. Later is a "waitlist closed" page.

cvxv666

174,699 Aufrufe • vor 2 Monaten

HOW TO USE AI LOOPS TO RUN YOUR BUSINESS 24/7 A lot has been written about loop engineering for building products. Almost nothing about using loops to run the business itself. That's the bigger idea. A loop is when you give an agent a goal, a way to check its own work, and permission to keep trying until it hits that goal. Build. Verify. Repeat. Stop when the condition is met. Here's what it looks like in practice: 1/SEO loop You're position 30 for a term you want. The loop runs once a month, makes changes, checks where you rank, and keeps pushing until you're on page one. This is running in production right now on Inbox Zero. 2/Ads loop You're spending $100 a day and losing money. The loop tests creative, checks profitability, kills what fails, and keeps going until the account is in the black. 3/Eval loop Your AI feature is only 88% accurate. The loop keeps adjusting the prompt and swapping the model until it passes 90%. 4/LLM visibility loop People search in ChatGPT now, not just Google. Same loop, new scoreboard. Are we the answer or not? The whole thing hinges on one thing: a metric that comes back black and white. Where do I rank? Did it hit profitability? Did the evals pass? Give an agent that scoreboard and it runs for months. Loops used to run for 30 minutes. These run for a year. Take a step, sleep, wake up next month, take another one. You're basically hiring an agency that never sleeps, gets paid in tokens instead of invoices, and undoes its own mistakes when the number goes down. Full episode on The Startup Ideas Podcast (SIP) 🧃 watch

HOW TO USE AI LOOPS TO RUN YOUR BUSINESS 24/7 A lot has been written about loop engineering for building products. Almost nothing about using loops to run the business itself. That's the bigger idea. A loop is when you give an agent a goal, a way to check its own work, and permission to keep trying until it hits that goal. Build. Verify. Repeat. Stop when the condition is met. Here's what it looks like in practice: 1/SEO loop You're position 30 for a term you want. The loop runs once a month, makes changes, checks where you rank, and keeps pushing until you're on page one. This is running in production right now on Inbox Zero. 2/Ads loop You're spending $100 a day and losing money. The loop tests creative, checks profitability, kills what fails, and keeps going until the account is in the black. 3/Eval loop Your AI feature is only 88% accurate. The loop keeps adjusting the prompt and swapping the model until it passes 90%. 4/LLM visibility loop People search in ChatGPT now, not just Google. Same loop, new scoreboard. Are we the answer or not? The whole thing hinges on one thing: a metric that comes back black and white. Where do I rank? Did it hit profitability? Did the evals pass? Give an agent that scoreboard and it runs for months. Loops used to run for 30 minutes. These run for a year. Take a step, sleep, wake up next month, take another one. You're basically hiring an agency that never sleeps, gets paid in tokens instead of invoices, and undoes its own mistakes when the number goes down. Full episode on The Startup Ideas Podcast (SIP) 🧃 watch

GREG ISENBERG

83,210 Aufrufe • vor 2 Monaten

one agent → a loop → a graph → a system that throttles itself Google just put the whole ladder in one free course. most people never leave the first rung. 2 hours 4 minutes, taught by two Google Cloud engineers. no signup, no paywall. 17:55 - build your first agent 39:55 - loop engineering: iterate, check, break 1:13:25 - graph engineering 1:35:27 - agents that throttle themselves 1:56:19 - the full graph for multi-agent systems the fourth one is the step nobody talks about. an agent that cannot throttle itself is not autonomous, it is just unattended. everyone builds one agent and calls it done. this is the version where the agents wire themselves into a graph and decide their own rate. and the thing that decides when one of them is allowed to stop is not in the course. that part you build yourself. bookmark and watch it today, then read the eval setup below

one agent → a loop → a graph → a system that throttles itself Google just put the whole ladder in one free course. most people never leave the first rung. 2 hours 4 minutes, taught by two Google Cloud engineers. no signup, no paywall. 17:55 - build your first agent 39:55 - loop engineering: iterate, check, break 1:13:25 - graph engineering 1:35:27 - agents that throttle themselves 1:56:19 - the full graph for multi-agent systems the fourth one is the step nobody talks about. an agent that cannot throttle itself is not autonomous, it is just unattended. everyone builds one agent and calls it done. this is the version where the agents wire themselves into a graph and decide their own rate. and the thing that decides when one of them is allowed to stop is not in the course. that part you build yourself. bookmark and watch it today, then read the eval setup below

Hanako

53,692 Aufrufe • vor 1 Monat

OpenAI CEO, Sam Altman: "You don't need to write prompts anymore. You need Loops and Graphs." In 38 minutes he explains why his own engineers stopped writing prompts, and what they build instead Prompts → Agents → Loops → Graphs a prompt buys you one answer a graph buys you the whole job, and you are not in it watch it today then save the full graph engineering guide below before everyone catches up ↓

OpenAI CEO, Sam Altman: "You don't need to write prompts anymore. You need Loops and Graphs." In 38 minutes he explains why his own engineers stopped writing prompts, and what they build instead Prompts → Agents → Loops → Graphs a prompt buys you one answer a graph buys you the whole job, and you are not in it watch it today then save the full graph engineering guide below before everyone catches up ↓

Hanako

17,768 Aufrufe • vor 14 Tagen

Creator of agent loops: "Anthropic also using my agent systems formula and still the biggest mistake in agents: is skipping Graphs" his 3 rules for every agent: rule 1 → loop it, don't run once - think, act, observe, repeat - cut the context and it forgets why it started rule 2 → an agent is memory + tools + reasoning - drop one and it breaks rule 3 → stop fine-tuning the model - the real alpha is the infrastructure around it the formula behind every AI agent - explained by the one who wrote it one agent → a loop → a graph of loops → a system that never forgets watch & bookmark - then read how to wire it into a graph ↓

Creator of agent loops: "Anthropic also using my agent systems formula and still the biggest mistake in agents: is skipping Graphs" his 3 rules for every agent: rule 1 → loop it, don't run once - think, act, observe, repeat - cut the context and it forgets why it started rule 2 → an agent is memory + tools + reasoning - drop one and it breaks rule 3 → stop fine-tuning the model - the real alpha is the infrastructure around it the formula behind every AI agent - explained by the one who wrote it one agent → a loop → a graph of loops → a system that never forgets watch & bookmark - then read how to wire it into a graph ↓

codila

23,915 Aufrufe • vor 1 Monat

BlackRock runs on 20,000 people. Elon's Grok Bot runs the same shape for $300 a month, and it hires its own staff. You do not get an assistant. You get a company that hires. It does not throw ten agents at your problem and hand you the pile. It makes one agent that makes 10, and those ten make a 100. > LAYER ONE is one agent, the chief of staff, and it never touches the market > LAYER TWO is six desk heads, one job each, every one on its own computer with its own logins > LAYER THREE is whatever those six decide they need, spun up on the spot and shut down when the work is done Nobody writes a task list. You hand out job titles and the org fills itself in underneath. The swarm is never the same twice. Agents get spun up for one job, finish it, and are gone before I ever read their names. Not one of them sees the whole picture. The answer only exists after they hand off to each other. Wall Street cannot copy that. You cannot hire a hundred people for eleven minutes. BlackRock holds that shape together with a risk system called Aladdin. Mine holds it together with one agent that is only allowed to say no. I gave it $1,000 and told it to grow the money or get deleted. 15 hours later it was holding $3,900, on an address anyone can open and read. I was asleep for most of it, and I have still not written a line of code. The whole thing runs with my laptop shut, because none of it lives on my laptop. Setup is one evening. Create the chief, hand out the titles, run one trade on your screen while they watch, connect Telegram. Ten years ago a machine this shape had its name on a tower. Mine has a name I typed into a box. Save this while the whole thing still fits on one screen.

BlackRock runs on 20,000 people. Elon's Grok Bot runs the same shape for $300 a month, and it hires its own staff. You do not get an assistant. You get a company that hires. It does not throw ten agents at your problem and hand you the pile. It makes one agent that makes 10, and those ten make a 100. > LAYER ONE is one agent, the chief of staff, and it never touches the market > LAYER TWO is six desk heads, one job each, every one on its own computer with its own logins > LAYER THREE is whatever those six decide they need, spun up on the spot and shut down when the work is done Nobody writes a task list. You hand out job titles and the org fills itself in underneath. The swarm is never the same twice. Agents get spun up for one job, finish it, and are gone before I ever read their names. Not one of them sees the whole picture. The answer only exists after they hand off to each other. Wall Street cannot copy that. You cannot hire a hundred people for eleven minutes. BlackRock holds that shape together with a risk system called Aladdin. Mine holds it together with one agent that is only allowed to say no. I gave it $1,000 and told it to grow the money or get deleted. 15 hours later it was holding $3,900, on an address anyone can open and read. I was asleep for most of it, and I have still not written a line of code. The whole thing runs with my laptop shut, because none of it lives on my laptop. Setup is one evening. Create the chief, hand out the titles, run one trade on your screen while they watch, connect Telegram. Ten years ago a machine this shape had its name on a tower. Mine has a name I typed into a box. Save this while the whole thing still fits on one screen.

cvxv666

45,488 Aufrufe • vor 11 Tagen

your agent doesn't need a graph. it needs a verifier that isn't doing five jobs at once. a loop is already a graph - one node, one edge back to itself. you add a node when you'd hire a specialist. not before. here is the list of all 5 signals. read it before you draw another node.

your agent doesn't need a graph. it needs a verifier that isn't doing five jobs at once. a loop is already a graph - one node, one edge back to itself. you add a node when you'd hire a specialist. not before. here is the list of all 5 signals. read it before you draw another node.

Rohit

15,993 Aufrufe • vor 1 Monat

context engineering vs graph engineering. every few months the list gets a new word and everyone treats it as a replacement for the last one. these two are not on the same list. one decides what the model sees this turn, the other decides what exists at all. the cleanest way to tell them apart is to ask what a single unit of work looks like. > context engineering is the window the window opens empty, every single time. you assemble what goes in it. the prompt, the docs, the history, the tool results. the assembling is the work. the window only grows. it never shrinks on its own, so eventually something gets dropped. usually from the middle. usually without telling you. then the turn ends and the window is thrown away. not archived, thrown away. the next turn opens empty again and you re-explain what you already explained. good context engineering is knowing what to leave out, not what to pack in. the unit of work is one window. > graph engineering is the structure the same material arrives from the same sources. instead of packing it into a window, you pull entities out of it, resolve the duplicates into one node, and write typed edges between them. nothing here is stored as text you hope to find again. it is stored as a thing with a name and its connections to other things. when the turn ends, the graph is still there. the next turn does not start from zero. it starts by querying what already exists, and the query walks edges instead of guessing at similarity. good graph engineering is deciding what counts as the same thing twice. the unit of work is one relationship. > they are not alternatives the graph is what refills the window. context engineering decides what fits. graph engineering decides what there is to choose from. remove the graph and every session starts blind. remove the context work and the best structure in the world arrives as an unreadable dump. that also tells you which one broke. the answer drifted from what you actually said, or forgot something from this same session. that is the window. the answer is coherent but invents a connection that does not exist, or cannot join two facts it has clearly seen. that is the structure. people debug the prompt because the prompt is the easiest thing to edit. it keeps taking the blame for failures that live a layer down. save this - then read the full breakdown below

context engineering vs graph engineering. every few months the list gets a new word and everyone treats it as a replacement for the last one. these two are not on the same list. one decides what the model sees this turn, the other decides what exists at all. the cleanest way to tell them apart is to ask what a single unit of work looks like. > context engineering is the window the window opens empty, every single time. you assemble what goes in it. the prompt, the docs, the history, the tool results. the assembling is the work. the window only grows. it never shrinks on its own, so eventually something gets dropped. usually from the middle. usually without telling you. then the turn ends and the window is thrown away. not archived, thrown away. the next turn opens empty again and you re-explain what you already explained. good context engineering is knowing what to leave out, not what to pack in. the unit of work is one window. > graph engineering is the structure the same material arrives from the same sources. instead of packing it into a window, you pull entities out of it, resolve the duplicates into one node, and write typed edges between them. nothing here is stored as text you hope to find again. it is stored as a thing with a name and its connections to other things. when the turn ends, the graph is still there. the next turn does not start from zero. it starts by querying what already exists, and the query walks edges instead of guessing at similarity. good graph engineering is deciding what counts as the same thing twice. the unit of work is one relationship. > they are not alternatives the graph is what refills the window. context engineering decides what fits. graph engineering decides what there is to choose from. remove the graph and every session starts blind. remove the context work and the best structure in the world arrives as an unreadable dump. that also tells you which one broke. the answer drifted from what you actually said, or forgot something from this same session. that is the window. the answer is coherent but invents a connection that does not exist, or cannot join two facts it has clearly seen. that is the structure. people debug the prompt because the prompt is the easiest thing to edit. it keeps taking the blame for failures that live a layer down. save this - then read the full breakdown below

Hanako

19,160 Aufrufe • vor 1 Monat

your agent loop needs 8 exits. most people ship only one. (explained with triggers) 1) goal met → an evaluator scores the output against a rubric, and the run stops on a pass. → fires when the work is measurably done, not when the model says it is done. 2) turn cap → a hard ceiling on iterations, counted and enforced by the harness, not the prompt. → fires on the task it was never going to finish, before you pay to find that out. 3) budget cap → a limit on tokens or dollars, whichever one runs out first. → fires mid-run, which is exactly why it is the exit that saves you the 3am bill. 4) wall clock → a deadline on elapsed time, independent of how much progress was made. → fires when the run collides with a deploy window or the start of business hours. 5) no progress → hash the state every turn and compare it against the last few. → fires when three turns in a row change nothing. busy is not the same as moving. 6) human interrupt → an approval gate before risky steps, plus a kill switch that lives outside the loop. → fires whenever you decide, and it is the one exit the model cannot argue with. 7) error threshold → a counter of consecutive failures that resets on any success. → fires at n in a row, so it halts instead of retrying into the same wall all night. 8) external event → a webhook or a poll on whatever the task was actually about. → fires when the PR merged or the ticket closed and the work stopped mattering. a loop with one exit hangs. a loop with eight is a system. write the exits before you write the prompt.

your agent loop needs 8 exits. most people ship only one. (explained with triggers) 1) goal met → an evaluator scores the output against a rubric, and the run stops on a pass. → fires when the work is measurably done, not when the model says it is done. 2) turn cap → a hard ceiling on iterations, counted and enforced by the harness, not the prompt. → fires on the task it was never going to finish, before you pay to find that out. 3) budget cap → a limit on tokens or dollars, whichever one runs out first. → fires mid-run, which is exactly why it is the exit that saves you the 3am bill. 4) wall clock → a deadline on elapsed time, independent of how much progress was made. → fires when the run collides with a deploy window or the start of business hours. 5) no progress → hash the state every turn and compare it against the last few. → fires when three turns in a row change nothing. busy is not the same as moving. 6) human interrupt → an approval gate before risky steps, plus a kill switch that lives outside the loop. → fires whenever you decide, and it is the one exit the model cannot argue with. 7) error threshold → a counter of consecutive failures that resets on any success. → fires at n in a row, so it halts instead of retrying into the same wall all night. 8) external event → a webhook or a poll on whatever the task was actually about. → fires when the PR merged or the ticket closed and the work stopped mattering. a loop with one exit hangs. a loop with eight is a system. write the exits before you write the prompt.

Hanako

182,124 Aufrufe • vor 1 Monat

since everyone woke up talking about loops, this article talks about domain chips, which i think are super underrated compared to loops.. a chip is a small specialist that's only good at one job QA, trading, content, research whatever ... and not one giant brain trying to do everything.. you wrap it in three things: >a workflow (same shape every time, so it's stable) >the tools that job needs >a benchmark that says what good looks what makes this special is the benchmark; without it, a loop just changes things randomly, when with it, the chip can score every pass and keep only what actually wins.. the problem with loops is they can spin 1000× and still not improve when a domain chip not only focuses on the domain you delegate to them, but they actually improve themselves with every spin. you can start with domain chips here this repo will help you build your first chip, the workflow, the benchmark pack, and the autoloop policy, with guardrails so it can't fool itself: below you can read the article fully + i put a good example of the difference between having a normal loop and a domain chip..

since everyone woke up talking about loops, this article talks about domain chips, which i think are super underrated compared to loops.. a chip is a small specialist that's only good at one job QA, trading, content, research whatever ... and not one giant brain trying to do everything.. you wrap it in three things: >a workflow (same shape every time, so it's stable) >the tools that job needs >a benchmark that says what good looks what makes this special is the benchmark; without it, a loop just changes things randomly, when with it, the chip can score every pass and keep only what actually wins.. the problem with loops is they can spin 1000× and still not improve when a domain chip not only focuses on the domain you delegate to them, but they actually improve themselves with every spin. you can start with domain chips here this repo will help you build your first chip, the workflow, the benchmark pack, and the autoloop policy, with guardrails so it can't fool itself: below you can read the article fully + i put a good example of the difference between having a normal loop and a domain chip..

JUMPERZ

36,559 Aufrufe • vor 3 Monaten

KIMI K3 + OBSIDIAN + LOOP ENGINEERING = A VAULT THAT RUNS ITSELF the core idea: the vault is the loop's state, not the chat window everything Kimi K3 knows lives in a .md file the loop: > capture - a thought lands in 00-inbox > context - K3 pulls links, tags, and neighbouring notes > draft - edits happen inside a git worktree, never the live vault > review - a critic agent checks the diff before anything ships > commit - appended to the vault, nothing gets rewritten the key insight: frontmatter fields like supports, contradicts, and supersedes are graph edges, not metadata - the note format is the write API start with a plain loop, it runs about 2-4x the cost of one direct call > only move to a full graph once state has to outlive the session, several agents need to coordinate, or you have to explain what changed - that jump can run 10-50x one review assistant climbed from 55% to 72% to 84% just by moving through these shapes in order

KIMI K3 + OBSIDIAN + LOOP ENGINEERING = A VAULT THAT RUNS ITSELF the core idea: the vault is the loop's state, not the chat window everything Kimi K3 knows lives in a .md file the loop: > capture - a thought lands in 00-inbox > context - K3 pulls links, tags, and neighbouring notes > draft - edits happen inside a git worktree, never the live vault > review - a critic agent checks the diff before anything ships > commit - appended to the vault, nothing gets rewritten the key insight: frontmatter fields like supports, contradicts, and supersedes are graph edges, not metadata - the note format is the write API start with a plain loop, it runs about 2-4x the cost of one direct call > only move to a full graph once state has to outlive the session, several agents need to coordinate, or you have to explain what changed - that jump can run 10-50x one review assistant climbed from 55% to 72% to 84% just by moving through these shapes in order

Mr. Buzzoni

10,680 Aufrufe • vor 23 Tagen

CLAUDE + OBSIDIAN + LOOP ENGINEERING = A VAULT THAT RUNS ITSELF the core idea: the vault is the loop's state, not the chat window everything Claude knows lives in a .md file the loop: > capture - a thought lands in 00-inbox > context - claude pulls links, tags, and neighbouring notes > draft - edits happen inside a git worktree, never the live vault > review - a critic agent checks the diff before anything ships > commit - appended to the vault, nothing gets rewritten the key insight: frontmatter fields like supports, contradicts, and supersedes are graph edges, not metadata - the note format is the write API start with a plain loop, it runs about 2-4x the cost of one direct call > only move to a full graph once state has to outlive the session, several agents need to coordinate, or you have to explain what changed - that jump can run 10-50x one review assistant climbed from 55% to 72% to 84% just by moving through these shapes in order

CLAUDE + OBSIDIAN + LOOP ENGINEERING = A VAULT THAT RUNS ITSELF the core idea: the vault is the loop's state, not the chat window everything Claude knows lives in a .md file the loop: > capture - a thought lands in 00-inbox > context - claude pulls links, tags, and neighbouring notes > draft - edits happen inside a git worktree, never the live vault > review - a critic agent checks the diff before anything ships > commit - appended to the vault, nothing gets rewritten the key insight: frontmatter fields like supports, contradicts, and supersedes are graph edges, not metadata - the note format is the write API start with a plain loop, it runs about 2-4x the cost of one direct call > only move to a full graph once state has to outlive the session, several agents need to coordinate, or you have to explain what changed - that jump can run 10-50x one review assistant climbed from 55% to 72% to 84% just by moving through these shapes in order

Mr. Buzzoni

136,473 Aufrufe • vor 1 Monat

While AI timeline argues about loop engineering, a 20-year-old student in Shenzhen built the biggest loop anyone's aimed at money: 300 agents, one brain, $1,200 -> 395,000. Not a prompt. Not a bot. A loop that runs the whole job on its own - and never asks him a thing. No fund. No backers. Just a laptop, a dorm room, and a bet that a swarm beats a genius. His wallet: The smartest single model still works one step at a time. His loop moves in 300 directions at once - and never checks in with him. Claude Opus 4.8 runs the floor as the brain. 300 agents are the hands. One loop ties them together: > Decompose - Opus breaks the market into targets > Dispatch - 300 agents scatter across them at once > Execute - thousands of reads in a single pass, not one by one > Review - Opus grades every edge before a cent moves The hands find. The brain judges. The loop learns what failed and runs again, tighter each time. One daily loss cap, and it shuts itself down. It's not a bot you babysit. It's a loop that runs the whole desk. Everyone's just learning to run one loop. He runs 300 in one. The edge was never the genius model - it's the size of the loop, and the brain in charge of it. Save this - the full 300-agent loop is laid out above, start to finish. You'll want it when you build your own. 300 agents are looping right now, hunting the markets everyone skips. Two clicks and their trades land in your wallet too:

While AI timeline argues about loop engineering, a 20-year-old student in Shenzhen built the biggest loop anyone's aimed at money: 300 agents, one brain, $1,200 -> 395,000. Not a prompt. Not a bot. A loop that runs the whole job on its own - and never asks him a thing. No fund. No backers. Just a laptop, a dorm room, and a bet that a swarm beats a genius. His wallet: The smartest single model still works one step at a time. His loop moves in 300 directions at once - and never checks in with him. Claude Opus 4.8 runs the floor as the brain. 300 agents are the hands. One loop ties them together: > Decompose - Opus breaks the market into targets > Dispatch - 300 agents scatter across them at once > Execute - thousands of reads in a single pass, not one by one > Review - Opus grades every edge before a cent moves The hands find. The brain judges. The loop learns what failed and runs again, tighter each time. One daily loss cap, and it shuts itself down. It's not a bot you babysit. It's a loop that runs the whole desk. Everyone's just learning to run one loop. He runs 300 in one. The edge was never the genius model - it's the size of the loop, and the brain in charge of it. Save this - the full 300-agent loop is laid out above, start to finish. You'll want it when you build your own. 300 agents are looping right now, hunting the markets everyone skips. Two clicks and their trades land in your wallet too:

cvxv666

53,282 Aufrufe • vor 2 Monaten