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NFL Coaches Are Getting Two-Point Conversions Completely Wrong

127,370 views • 3 days ago •via X (Twitter)

64 Comments

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

Historical two-point data can blur designed QB runs and scrambles. Excluding all QB carries, non-QB runs still converted 56.0% versus 45.4% for explicit passing plays, including sacks.

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

Many have asked about how the offense/defense strengths/weaknesses play into this. Non-QB runs converted 56% vs. 45% for passes. Adjusting for team strengths didn’t erase the gap. Note: Some sample sizes are very small

BoxScore's profile picture
BoxScore3 days ago

Defenses expect pass which opens the run. If run becomes more common there’s a good chance these results flip.

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

100%

SportsBook Breakers's profile picture
SportsBook Breakers3 days ago

There’s obviously a balance. The reason runs are more successful is they are less expect with these frequency numbers. And are being called/checked to in the most advantageous defensive alignments. I suspect the optimal balance is slightly more runs but not an extreme shift.

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

It’s 75/25 now, which is way out of whack if you look at conversion rate. I think it should start trending towards 50/50 over time (if actors are rational)

Philip Edward Delphia's profile picture
Philip Edward Delphia3 days ago

This is interesting but I think the primary reason runs have been more successful is because teams that choose to run the ball are a good running team. Everyone would choose to run if they have Derrick Henry or Bijan Robinson.

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

I checked for that. Better rushing teams have a modest increase in rush usage (true mean is somewhere between 0.2 and 5.4% more runs). That is a trivial difference considering the 75/25 chasm between the plays.

Brian Connell's profile picture
Brian Connell3 days ago

@floppingdimes20 Did you treat teams as being “better rushing teams” due to overall season success or game/drive rushing success? I think the opponent’s weakness against the run may be a big factor in the differential conversion success rates

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

@floppingdimes20 Overall season. No matter how you slice the data (by team, by scheme, by era, by personnel, by opponent, etc) the trend still strongly skews towards way more passing attempts at a lower conversion rate

Chris Housser's profile picture
Chris Housser3 days ago

Good data. For the 4th and 2 anywhere on the field pass results, you should exclude data where pass is caught > 12 yards. That must account for some meaningful % of the successful times.

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

I hear you! That was kept in on purpose as I wanted to show why the conversion rates were way closer, and the condensed field is most of the reason why. I may take a peak at looking at only plays under 12 air yards and see what it looks like

mike jones's profile picture
mike jones3 days ago

pretty crazy that this video will inevitably affect play calling in the NFL

Mike Sando's profile picture
Mike Sando3 days ago

Does this assume coaches have no insight into what they think will work best for their team against each opponent? For example, coaches who decide to run the ball might do so because they feel they have a physical advantage?

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

This should add some context!

ProFootballStatCards's profile picture
ProFootballStatCards3 days ago

Man, this is a great video! Love the animation too, made it fun.

Beat The Odds's profile picture
Beat The Odds3 days ago

Love the data, love the retro bowl style presentation. Will definitely use this info next time I am in this situation while coaching an NFL team.

ⒷⓁ Brian Long's profile picture
ⒷⓁ Brian Long3 days ago

@JohnCUrschel did a whole mathematical write up on this subject.

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

@JohnCUrschel Cool thanks for linking, although this paper is exclusively about two vs kick, not run vs pass on 2 point tries

ⒷⓁ Brian Long's profile picture
ⒷⓁ Brian Long3 days ago

@JohnCUrschel Yes, your analysis is great. Just adding that writeup. And he included variance, which would be important to consider. As coaches are certainly risk adverse.

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

@JohnCUrschel Yes, absolutely! My main point is more that WHEN they go for 2, they should run it more often, not necessarily that they should go for 2 more. Appreciate the added context

Marcus Athari's profile picture
Marcus Athari3 days ago

In RPO circumstances, I presume you count run/pass outcome respectively (end up running, it’s a run play, pass it’s a pass play). Is there an advantage to running an RPO vs. straight run/pass?

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

Yes. And also, yes. RPOs seem to be one of the better options.

Marcus Athari's profile picture
Marcus Athari3 days ago

Thank you kindly for your response.

mtc's profile picture
mtc3 days ago

love this, great work eric. would love to see how the data would be affected if we control or separate by formation - since that seems to heavily affect defensive personnel and play calling.

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

Probably the best way to run it in is from 11 personnel and spread out the field. I could look into this

jim iuorio's profile picture
jim iuorio3 days ago

There’s an element that you are not accounting for. Runs become more successful if you have shown the defender that you may pass. In other words, it feels like your conclusion is just to always run, but if you did that defenses would lean on the run…they must coexist to be successful…but I don’t disagree that the ratio should flip to put the odds back in your favor.

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

I see how it could come across that way. Hopefully you don’t think I’m that dumb to suggest they should run everytime just because the success rate is higher 😂 My real contention is they should run more until the success rates start to equalize

Dakota Stiles's profile picture
Dakota Stiles3 days ago

Would love to see the passes broken down by play action vs not.

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

For 2 point tries? I can do that. Also recommend checking out my play action video if you haven't seen it:

Clevta's profile picture
Clevta3 days ago

I’ve always thought runs are under utilized on 2s but can you parse out designed runs vs QBs scrambles bc I assume the scrambles are skewing this?

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

Scrambles are passes. Imagine if it was 75% passes if you included scrambles as runs!

Jack's profile picture
Jack3 days ago

@Clevta Does the defensive formation impact the run/pass play call decision? May out bias in the data

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

If that existed, I still don’t believe it would bias the data. If defenses can actually force offenses to audible from a run to a pass, then stop the pass, that would be a legitimate phenomenon and would still be an indictment of the offense. There’s no evidence that this is happening at a significant rate. I watched 150 two point conversions to help prevent any obvious methodological flaws.

Snacktar Donutsk 🍩's profile picture
Snacktar Donutsk 🍩3 days ago

Love this video

WWIA7062's profile picture
WWIA70623 days ago

This would be different if the tush push was banned

mortimersnerd's profile picture
mortimersnerd3 days ago

Both have to remain viable options for either to be effective, so whatever the success the successful enjoys, it is quickly countered. What's not properly considered is the athleticism of 350 lb behemoths on crossing routes...or 7 ft. tight-ends....anything other than another god-forsaken back corner fade.

Jk's profile picture
Jk3 days ago

Amazing video

Dave P.'s profile picture
Dave P.3 days ago

If there was a major shift in coaching philosophy towards runs on 2pt conversions, and defenses started to account/prepare for that, could that have an impact on this analysis?

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

Yes, it would converge towards equal effectiveness

Jk's profile picture
Jk3 days ago

@CoachHebert9

querulous dude's profile picture
querulous dude3 days ago

using historical data of 2 pt and 1 pt tries (only since line was moved back), should any/all teams always go for 2?

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

Fascinating question. One issue is that teams don’t have an endless Rolodex of plays for that distance. Since the PAT moved back in 2015, two point tries from the 2 averaged 0.963 net points vs. 0.944 for kick. Thats just 2 extra points per 100 tries. Break-even is roughly 47.7%. I would say if you think your particularly good at twos and defending them, theres some +EV there

querulous dude's profile picture
querulous dude3 days ago

Thanks kindly for the analysis and insight. Do you think it’s only a matter of time before a coach/team opts for a 2 point try after every touchdown?

JB's profile picture
JB3 days ago

Does a pass play that results in a QB scramble get counted as a run in this data? I would suspect that would account for a meaningful amount of these, feel like we often see teams move the pocket on pass plays near the goal line

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

Check the replies!

Goal Line Gimli's profile picture
Goal Line Gimli3 days ago

this is amazing. Well done and shown.

MAGADONIAN's profile picture
MAGADONIAN3 days ago

This is interesting because theoretically a 2-pt conversion rush after every TD is better than kicking the extra point. Although it doesn’t account for the other team knowing exactly what you are going to do.

Matt's profile picture
Matt3 days ago

Negligible, and probably not enough sample size, but defense may also be more likely to return an interception for points than a fumble.

Just's profile picture
Just3 days ago

What about passes that break down and turn into runs? What are those counted as?

Davi Alcantara's profile picture
Davi Alcantara3 days ago

Hello @Raiders

SueUrazz's profile picture
SueUrazz3 days ago

You failed to account for the influence the pass plays have on the success of the runs. Defenses anticipate pass bc 76% of attempts are passes. Runs can catch them off guard.

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

No, they should run more for precisely that reason.

SueUrazz's profile picture
SueUrazz3 days ago

Yes but you do understand that, if everyone took your advice, that would be to runs being less effective

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

The point is they are passing at an irrationally high rate. They should pass less often until teams start to recruit more resources to stopping the run

Arminius's profile picture
Arminius3 days ago

But how many of the “runs” were passes where the QB had an option to pass but scrambled in?

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

Less than 80 out of over 2000 plays. Some of the older data it’s not possible to parse out QB designed run vs scramble, but no matter the split it’s not enough to materially change the trend

Arminius's profile picture
Arminius3 days ago

Not disputing your amazing analysis. That’s all I could thing of since it’s a common goaline strategy to roll the QB out and if defender bites he passes and if he stays with his man he lobs it.

Josh Morris's profile picture
Josh Morris3 days ago

I think you have to distinguish between designed runs and scrambles.

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

See the follow up post!

CollegeSports24/7's profile picture
CollegeSports24/73 days ago

Elite research

Daryle Hawkins's profile picture
Daryle Hawkins3 days ago

One could argue that there is a larger emotional tax to getting stopped on a run as pass. We talk about high impact plays. Id guess a team that fails a 2pt on a pass has a higher likelihood of winning the game than a team that fails a 2pt on a run.

Eagles Eric's profile picture
Eagles Eric3 days ago

Looked into it. Teams won 43% after failed runs vs. 35% after failed passes.

ron's profile picture
ron3 days ago

@TravisDHolmes Not privy to the data, but I’d imagine teams that choose to run, know they can get it, whereas teams choosing to pass likely have a poorer run game, specially in short yardage situations. As an example, Ravens and Bills are probably gonna run, a team like the chargers can’t

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