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Reflections without Raytracing Ever wonder how they had perfect reflections without RTX? They just built the room twice and flipped it. 🤯 CoD Ghosts: NextGen Testmap

1,439,542 次观看 • 10 个月前 •via X (Twitter)

33 条评论

Shaun Weber 的头像
Shaun Weber10 个月前

Yes many games back then used this technique. But it has its limits to.

TheTopMostDog 🇦🇺🐕‍🦺🏕️🎣🔫🪓🥩 的头像
TheTopMostDog 🇦🇺🐕‍🦺🏕️🎣🔫🪓🥩10 个月前

Ray tracing was the biggest marketing gimmick. I don't doubt it's technically superior, but look at when it first came out. People were frothing for miniscule improvements at the cost of most of their performance. What a joke.

Busy Panda 的头像
Busy Panda10 个月前

even death stranding 2 uses this technique

VGamingJunkie VT 的头像
VGamingJunkie VT10 个月前

Half-Life 2 famously combined this with cubic environment maps for static things like the environment. Managed to produce impressive results for only being from 2004.

ᚷᚺᛟᛊᛏ 的头像
ᚷᚺᛟᛊᛏ10 个月前

classic technique, ray tracing is still objectively a "better" technique (though obviously more compute heavy and not without it's own problems) but it's amazing how far back this method goes. Even early 3D games like DN3D used this method to render mirrors

The Daily Conspiracy Podcast 的头像
The Daily Conspiracy Podcast10 个月前

You will never not convince me ray tracing is the worst thing to happen to gaming. It's so resource heavy and almost indistinguishable to just good creative development work

k. 🇰🇿 的头像
k. 🇰🇿10 个月前

Yeah, half life 2 from 2004 has a better solution and it also includes dynamics objcts

Tobias 的头像
Tobias10 个月前

In Super Mario 64, a similar technique was used in the large mirror room; the room and Mario exist twice in this scene, so it looks as if it's mirrored. Back then, many such tricks were used to create effects that would have been impossible to render at the time.

Ashcroftnite 🇻🇳 的头像
Ashcroftnite 🇻🇳10 个月前

There's also other technique called Planar reflections, which HL2 (and even GTA 5) uses for water reflections and u don't need to duplicate the building/room at all, instead it's all done by shaders.

babinski 的头像
babinski10 个月前

This is computationally cheaper than ray tracing in most scenarios.

Jeff Treves 的头像
Jeff Treves10 个月前

Brooooooo!

Dachswerk 的头像
Dachswerk10 个月前

Because they had to improvise, adapt and overcome. You had to fool the machine into doing it and player into believing it. Everything had a computational cost, and resources were limited. Now they just fatten it up and pass the cost to consumers

Ajay 的头像
Ajay10 个月前

it is worrysome that tech is still underdeveloped. they had to build it twice.

Vaughan 的头像
Vaughan10 个月前

The thing I miss the most is using this technique for mirrors. Modern games often have ugly, muddy mirrors. Like the mirrors in the OG Dead Rising look fantastic, but in the newer ones they are awful

Robo Miner - Remastered for Android 的头像
Robo Miner - Remastered for Android10 个月前

no .. it just appears like so - in reality the world is just rendered twice - exactly how mirrors worked in games. It's not fully accurate in terms of lights, but noone cares - and they dont reflect anything. raytracing: actually reflects light onto a wall etc

MikeMumbelz 的头像
MikeMumbelz10 个月前

I have to imagine doubling the amount of everything we interact with comes with major performance drawbacks. I'm sure it works but scaling this would probably cause chaos.

Filip Coulianos 的头像
Filip Coulianos10 个月前

We used to do this trick in Half-Life 1 ^^. Works, but all dynamic characters, explosions and whatever will not reflect ^^.

clearo 的头像
clearo10 个月前

Bully from Rockstar in 2006 does the same thing, pretty cool. Portal and Portal 2 do something similar with the portal mechanic. You're not actually going through a portal you're seemlessly switching between two mirrored characters in mirrored rooms

ちえっく 的头像
ちえっく10 个月前

Yeah they've been doing this since the 90s. For planer reflections it's called the duplicate room method: in older games like Super Mario 64 or Duke Nukem 3D, developers literally built a duplicate, inverted version of the room on the other side of a transparent wall. A second "mirror version" of the player character would move in tandem with the real player to complete the illusion.

regawdless 的头像
regawdless10 个月前

Great trick for limited use cases, not scalable to larger worlds at all unfortunately. Also no dynamic reflections unless you also duplicate all the physics, particles and other actions, blowing the compute budget.

ɿoɈɒɿɈƨinim𝐃ɒ 的头像
ɿoɈɒɿɈƨinim𝐃ɒ10 个月前

Isn't this more or just as costly as Raytracing, if it were done with new games ? just asking btw

Gwydion_Wolf 🇺🇸 的头像
Gwydion_Wolf 🇺🇸10 个月前

Now you know why sometimes you'd see textures backwards on walls and such.... :P it's when they'd grab the wrong texture and use the 'reflection' one rather than the 'top-level' one :D

DevilishxDave 的头像
DevilishxDave10 个月前

Old technique if I'm not mistaken. Didn't Super Mario 64 do the same thing for mirrors? Just cloned the the room and duped the player while inverting their motion?

(Officially) Travis 的头像
(Officially) Travis10 个月前

This is a good example of why raytracing doesn’t seem as expensive as you’d think, because non raytracing tricks have to do things like this, wasting processing with an entire duplicate model

Furinji Hayato 的头像
Furinji Hayato10 个月前

Reflections without raytracing 🤯

Jilted Valkyrie 的头像
Jilted Valkyrie10 个月前

Build once and flip it, really.

Bruno Sanches 的头像
Bruno Sanches10 个月前

And duke nukem 3d in 1996 did this on the fly for the mirrors:

Dave Lindsay 的头像
Dave Lindsay10 个月前

In most 2015 and earlier rendering setups it's cheaper to have a second camera rendering a low res texture at the complementing angle of incidence to the reflecting plane. It's then layered on. Only modern pipelines would double the geometry cause of the expensive post-processing that they only want to pay for (on the GPU) once.

Kornel Kisielewicz 的头像
Kornel Kisielewicz10 个月前

Literally the same technique in 1996.

Bridgit 的头像
Bridgit10 个月前

Old technology as in Duke Nukem restroom

Wridian 的头像
Wridian10 个月前

It's a good trick as long as the "reflective" surface is pretty much flat and one elevation. Otherwise, curves or steps pretty much break the illusion, and there are more limits past that. So this by no means proves raytracing is unneeded or a waste of resources.

OSV K0d.exe 的头像
OSV K0d.exe10 个月前

when Battlefield stuff ? 👀

Lukas 的头像
Lukas10 个月前

@grok what are the limits of that technique

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