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Reflections without Raytracing Ever wonder how they had perfect reflections without RTX? They just built the room twice and flipped it. 🤯 CoD Ghosts: NextGen Testmap

1,439,542 Aufrufe • vor 10 Monaten •via X (Twitter)

33 Kommentare

Profilbild von Shaun Weber
Shaun Webervor 10 Monaten

Yes many games back then used this technique. But it has its limits to.

Profilbild von TheTopMostDog 🇦🇺🐕‍🦺🏕️🎣🔫🪓🥩
TheTopMostDog 🇦🇺🐕‍🦺🏕️🎣🔫🪓🥩vor 10 Monaten

Ray tracing was the biggest marketing gimmick. I don't doubt it's technically superior, but look at when it first came out. People were frothing for miniscule improvements at the cost of most of their performance. What a joke.

Profilbild von Busy Panda
Busy Pandavor 10 Monaten

even death stranding 2 uses this technique

Profilbild von VGamingJunkie VT
VGamingJunkie VTvor 10 Monaten

Half-Life 2 famously combined this with cubic environment maps for static things like the environment. Managed to produce impressive results for only being from 2004.

Profilbild von ᚷᚺᛟᛊᛏ
ᚷᚺᛟᛊᛏvor 10 Monaten

classic technique, ray tracing is still objectively a "better" technique (though obviously more compute heavy and not without it's own problems) but it's amazing how far back this method goes. Even early 3D games like DN3D used this method to render mirrors

Profilbild von The Daily Conspiracy Podcast
The Daily Conspiracy Podcastvor 10 Monaten

You will never not convince me ray tracing is the worst thing to happen to gaming. It's so resource heavy and almost indistinguishable to just good creative development work

Profilbild von k. 🇰🇿
k. 🇰🇿vor 10 Monaten

Yeah, half life 2 from 2004 has a better solution and it also includes dynamics objcts

Profilbild von Tobias
Tobiasvor 10 Monaten

In Super Mario 64, a similar technique was used in the large mirror room; the room and Mario exist twice in this scene, so it looks as if it's mirrored. Back then, many such tricks were used to create effects that would have been impossible to render at the time.

Profilbild von Ashcroftnite 🇻🇳
Ashcroftnite 🇻🇳vor 10 Monaten

There's also other technique called Planar reflections, which HL2 (and even GTA 5) uses for water reflections and u don't need to duplicate the building/room at all, instead it's all done by shaders.

Profilbild von babinski
babinskivor 10 Monaten

This is computationally cheaper than ray tracing in most scenarios.

Profilbild von Jeff Treves
Jeff Trevesvor 10 Monaten

Brooooooo!

Profilbild von Dachswerk
Dachswerkvor 10 Monaten

Because they had to improvise, adapt and overcome. You had to fool the machine into doing it and player into believing it. Everything had a computational cost, and resources were limited. Now they just fatten it up and pass the cost to consumers

Profilbild von Ajay
Ajayvor 10 Monaten

it is worrysome that tech is still underdeveloped. they had to build it twice.

Profilbild von Vaughan
Vaughanvor 10 Monaten

The thing I miss the most is using this technique for mirrors. Modern games often have ugly, muddy mirrors. Like the mirrors in the OG Dead Rising look fantastic, but in the newer ones they are awful

Profilbild von Robo Miner - Remastered for Android
Robo Miner - Remastered for Androidvor 10 Monaten

no .. it just appears like so - in reality the world is just rendered twice - exactly how mirrors worked in games. It's not fully accurate in terms of lights, but noone cares - and they dont reflect anything. raytracing: actually reflects light onto a wall etc

Profilbild von MikeMumbelz
MikeMumbelzvor 10 Monaten

I have to imagine doubling the amount of everything we interact with comes with major performance drawbacks. I'm sure it works but scaling this would probably cause chaos.

Profilbild von Filip Coulianos
Filip Coulianosvor 10 Monaten

We used to do this trick in Half-Life 1 ^^. Works, but all dynamic characters, explosions and whatever will not reflect ^^.

Profilbild von clearo
clearovor 10 Monaten

Bully from Rockstar in 2006 does the same thing, pretty cool. Portal and Portal 2 do something similar with the portal mechanic. You're not actually going through a portal you're seemlessly switching between two mirrored characters in mirrored rooms

Profilbild von ちえっく
ちえっくvor 10 Monaten

Yeah they've been doing this since the 90s. For planer reflections it's called the duplicate room method: in older games like Super Mario 64 or Duke Nukem 3D, developers literally built a duplicate, inverted version of the room on the other side of a transparent wall. A second "mirror version" of the player character would move in tandem with the real player to complete the illusion.

Profilbild von regawdless
regawdlessvor 10 Monaten

Great trick for limited use cases, not scalable to larger worlds at all unfortunately. Also no dynamic reflections unless you also duplicate all the physics, particles and other actions, blowing the compute budget.

Profilbild von ɿoɈɒɿɈƨinim𝐃ɒ
ɿoɈɒɿɈƨinim𝐃ɒvor 10 Monaten

Isn't this more or just as costly as Raytracing, if it were done with new games ? just asking btw

Profilbild von Gwydion_Wolf 🇺🇸
Gwydion_Wolf 🇺🇸vor 10 Monaten

Now you know why sometimes you'd see textures backwards on walls and such.... :P it's when they'd grab the wrong texture and use the 'reflection' one rather than the 'top-level' one :D

Profilbild von DevilishxDave
DevilishxDavevor 10 Monaten

Old technique if I'm not mistaken. Didn't Super Mario 64 do the same thing for mirrors? Just cloned the the room and duped the player while inverting their motion?

Profilbild von (Officially) Travis
(Officially) Travisvor 10 Monaten

This is a good example of why raytracing doesn’t seem as expensive as you’d think, because non raytracing tricks have to do things like this, wasting processing with an entire duplicate model

Profilbild von Furinji Hayato
Furinji Hayatovor 10 Monaten

Reflections without raytracing 🤯

Profilbild von Jilted Valkyrie
Jilted Valkyrievor 10 Monaten

Build once and flip it, really.

Profilbild von Bruno Sanches
Bruno Sanchesvor 10 Monaten

And duke nukem 3d in 1996 did this on the fly for the mirrors:

Profilbild von Dave Lindsay
Dave Lindsayvor 10 Monaten

In most 2015 and earlier rendering setups it's cheaper to have a second camera rendering a low res texture at the complementing angle of incidence to the reflecting plane. It's then layered on. Only modern pipelines would double the geometry cause of the expensive post-processing that they only want to pay for (on the GPU) once.

Profilbild von Kornel Kisielewicz
Kornel Kisielewiczvor 10 Monaten

Literally the same technique in 1996.

Profilbild von Bridgit
Bridgitvor 10 Monaten

Old technology as in Duke Nukem restroom

Profilbild von Wridian
Wridianvor 10 Monaten

It's a good trick as long as the "reflective" surface is pretty much flat and one elevation. Otherwise, curves or steps pretty much break the illusion, and there are more limits past that. So this by no means proves raytracing is unneeded or a waste of resources.

Profilbild von OSV K0d.exe
OSV K0d.exevor 10 Monaten

when Battlefield stuff ? 👀

Profilbild von Lukas
Lukasvor 10 Monaten

@grok what are the limits of that technique

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