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Reposting this without sound because the audio got distorted the first time. What gets lost in the low-effort memes about Auschwitz is the enormity of the data we have on the movement of people in and out of the camp. This is a time-lapse I built of the ~1,800... show more
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how and where the data was sourced
Interesting to note that most of the Hungarian Jews apparently came from the territory Hungary annexed from Romania. Any idea as to why that would be? Because Hungary kicked out all the Jews with no Hungarian citizenship in 1942 already.
Hey, great question and I had to dig into the data to make sure I had it right. It's ~1/3 from N Transylvania, and if you add up all the annexed territory it's ~60%. So it's a lot, but maybe more balanced than it looks. The reason it comes across so lopsided is the order of the deportations. They went east to west, so Transylvania and Ruthenia got cleared out first. And then the deportations were paused in July before most of Budapest could be deported.
I hate to say it, but if I were a denier, this would not be satisfactory to me. Shouldn't the bulk of the Hungarian Jews have come from Hungary proper instead of the annexed territories that should have been virtually empty at that point in time?
Were the Hungarian expulsion measurements perhaps simply ineffective and most of the Jews stayed put? Maybe there was active ghettoization going on that moved them to the east by the tens of thousands?
IIUC the expulsions were in 1941, and they only hit Jews without Hungarian citizenship, so mostly Galician and Polish refugees. ~20,000 were pushed over the border into occupied Ukraine and then shot. The annexed territory had ~325,000 Jews. So the expulsion probably affected under 10% of them.
Regrettably, I cannot seem to find an answer as to whether or not the Jews that lived in the area administered by Hungary before WW1 were unequivocally given Hungarian citizenships like the other inhabitants of that area, once annexed back, which I assume is what went down.
Interesting sidetrack though.
Yeah, for sure. Appreciate you flagging it and asking.
Those that were “transferred or evacuated”, were those prisoners set free, or moved to other camps? Would be interesting to see who was released/where they ended up etc
Hey, so transferred or evacuated doesn't mean released, since they were still in SS custody. During the final evacuation something like ~56,000 prisoners were marched out to Gliwice or Wodzislaw, where they were put on trains going West. From there, most went to Gross-Rosen, Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Mauthausen, etc.
Have you done this for all the camps? Because it's still pretty far from 12 million
I go into it a bit more here.
I added up your worst case estimates including the shooting fields and still well short.
I doubt you properly read the thread, because these aren't worst case estimates. These are the floor, using direct Nazi documentation.
No, the black dots are official, the red dots are estimated. Add those red dots up.
I think our wires got crossed. The deaths here are ~4.7 million, but it's missing roughly half the shootings. There's ~910,000 listed here, but the scholarly concensus is 1.5-2.2 million. It also doesn't include ghetto deaths or other deaths of deprivations.
yeah but there were 12 million deaths in and around the camps. 6 million jews and 6 million non jews. You are like 7 million people off with your figures. I don't get it.
Shouldn’t the net inflow be 6 million? Or are there 7+ similar camps each with slightly less than a million kills each?
1.1 million were killed at Auschwitz, and then an additional 1.7 million were murdered at Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, and Chelmno. Then you have roughly 2 million killed by shootings, another 800,000 in ghettos from deprivation and disease. + those killed in other camps
Not thorough enough. If at all.
![Jews cannot rely on others to survive. George McGovern (Senator, Presidential Nominee & Historian) flew bomber missions over Auschwitz, targeting nearby oil factories & admitted it was moral failure not to bomb the gas chambers, the crematoria, or the railways/bridges to Auschwitz. By December 1942, the US government had irrefutable proof of the mass slaughter of Jews in the death camps, including Auschwitz. Jewish organizations pleaded with the Allies to bomb the extermination camps & railways/bridges leading to them to at least minimize the slaughter. The Jews begged the Allies to do something, anything, to show the Nazis that the world knew what was happening & refused to permit it. But the Jews’ requests were always dismissed out of hand. Starting in Feb 1944, Allied photo-reconnaissance planes based in southern Italy carried out surveillance missions over Auschwitz. Those photos unequivocally showed the barracks and the plumes of smoke billowing over the constantly running crematoria, which were incinerating up to 12,000 Jews every single day. The British too carried out bombing raids on synthetic oil factories adjacent to Auschwitz as early as May 12, 1944. But neither the Americans nor the British ever took any action intended to stop, or even somewhat slowdown, the extermination of the Jews. Elie Wiesel later recounted in his best-selling book Night that he remembered seeing the Allies bomb of the oil factories when he was a 16-year-old slave laborer in Auschwitz. He wrote: “[I]f a bomb had fallen on the blocks [the prisoners’ barracks], it alone would have claimed hundreds of victims on the spot. But we were no longer afraid of death; at any rate, not of that death ... Every bomb that exploded filled us with joy and gave us new confidence in life. The raid lasted over an hour. If it could only have lasted ten times ten hours!” Meanwhile, at the exact same time that the Allies were running these bombing missions taking them directly over Auschwitz, the Allies also knew that up to 800,000 Hungarian Jews were being rounded up for deportation along those same railways & bridges to Auschwitz for extermination. But while actions were repeatedly taken against the oil factories next door, not a single bomb was dropped targeting those railways and bridges. Not a single bomb was dropped targeting the gas chambers or the crematoria. How many could have been saved if the Allies took any action whatsoever against Auschwitz? It’s not as if bombing railways and bridges was out of the ordinary. On the contrary, the Allies regularly bombed railways and bridges during the entirety of the war. The sad truth is that during the war, those in charge of Allied military action, including political leaders, repeatedly showed near total disinterest in the Nazi industrialized slaughter of millions of Europe’s Jews. And so, we love our friends today. We appreciate every one of them. We know the stories of the righteous among the nations who risked their lives to save Jews during the Holocaust. But we also know - and continue to reminded by the words and actions of world leaders today - that Jews have not the luxury of relying on the nations of the world to save us, to protect us, or even to care whether we live or die. Only Israel ensures Jews will never again be left hoping the world will come to our rescue. Only Israel ensures the Jews will ultimately be responsible for our own destiny.](https://image.24vids.com/tw-1848151538658902042/ext_tw_video_thumb/1848140709234192384/pu/img/POxy-a50pkRPhOG4.jpg)
![[WATCH] ANC UPLOADED NAMES ON TIME AND SOME WERE KICKED OUT DUE TO TECHNICAL GLITCHES “We did upload all of the candidates, it’s important to assure our members, supporters and our community that participated in the candidate selection process that took place. We did upload all of our candidates from all the nine provinces and regions on time. The 28th of August was the final day of submission of the final list, why it took place then is because the ANC undergoes an extensive process of vetting and interviewing and holding community meetings, all of this take time. We are very robust in how we’ve improved our candidate selection process. The very last portion of the batch is when the system started kicking them out. That was before 5 o’clock. We are not discussing here a lack of compliance on the part of the African National Congress with regards to meeting the deadline but a batch of names on the uploaded list that were kicked out. We are asking the IEC to consider for submission all those candidates who had already been captured in the IEC system but were kicked out. The second thing we are asking is to get to the bottom of why the very last batch was kicked out. We are asking for an investigation and this will get us to the bottom of the issue. This ties in with the question of are we fighting with the IEC? We are not. We respect and continue to have the full confidence in the integrity of the IEC run processes. It continues being one of the most important institutions and hallmarks of our democracy and that is why we hope that a constructive engagement can take place and an investigation on whether there were technological challenges that were not foreseen” -ANC SPOKESPERSON MAHLENGI BHENGU](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2095257439692312973/amplify_video_thumb/2095256989681278976/img/-ah_t2P95yLreFd0.jpg)
![On this day — June 23, 1944 At the Holocaust's peak — as Nazis liquidated nearly 500k Hungarian Jews (over 434,000 deported to Auschwitz in May–July 1944, ~330,000 gassed immediately, up to 10k–12k per day) — Jewish leaders begged the Allies to bomb Auschwitz & its rail lines. This was the exact date the U.S. War Department issued its cold rejection, signed by Major General Thomas T. Handy: “It is impractical ... [it] could be executed only by diversion of considerable air support essential to the success of our forces now engaged in decisive operations. The War Department fully appreciates the humanitarian importance ... but decided the most effective way to help is to defeat the Axis powers.” The excuses and the obscenity: - American bombers were already striking targets less than 5 miles from the gas chambers. - Requests came from the World Jewish Congress, the War Refugee Board, and escapees Rudolf Vrba & Alfred Wetzler. - No genuine feasibility study was ever conducted. Hundreds of thousands could have been saved. Senator George McGovern, who flew B-24 bomber missions near Auschwitz, later said: “I think we should have gone after Auschwitz and taken our chances on killing some of the people there who were innocent but knocking out those gas chambers and the mass weapons of death. I also think it would have helped if we had bombed the railroad lines leading to Auschwitz. The purpose of those rail lines was to carrying human beings to their death.” They knew. They had the capability. They chose not to. Today, we draw the only lesson history permits: When the lives of Jews hang in the balance, Jewish sovereignty is not optional — it is the difference between survival and slaughter. Never again will the fate of hundreds of thousands of Jews be left in the hands of others who weigh the value of Jewish lives against “decisive operations.” The Jewish state exists so that never again will Jews be helpless, having to beg strangers to save them while Jewish children burn.](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2069405118169292898/amplify_video_thumb/2069208169109422080/img/aRZjz3qUfgOWCwQB.jpg)
