Special report on Séb Krier's recent post:

@sebkrier I will say that this is the first episode of Doom Debates I’ve watched in full, so it’s not like this is coming from some longstanding fan, but this episode is pretty thoroughly discrediting to me for reasons already discussed elsewhere.

@sebkrier I guess we’re at an impasse on this topic. Thanks for watching.

I watched it and had a positive impression. It all seemed well argued to me. Good job spelling out the gun angle issue. However, thinking it over, the elephant in the room is that Holly "Pause Button" Elmore, seems to be deliberately flouting existing free speech norms, openly in the public sphere. Directly calling for someone to be fired, calling the cops on them, etc. is VERY extreme and VERY unlike posting a bad taste self deprecating meme about being paranoid of the government. A little louder for those in the back: It is NOT NORMAL to CANCEL someone. Therefore, saying "she doesn't have to follow these rules, because she's Holly" is sending a message.

@tracewoodgrains @sebkrier Thanks. While I agree with Holly that the post should not be tolerated, I'm open to a slower consequence escalation ramp, like a first warning, cuz most people in this echo chamber came into the situation in need of a Communication 101 lesson such as the episode I just recorded.

@sebkrier you are very consistently one of the most obviously bad faith actors within the pause movement and i suspect your presence is counterproductive for your own movement

@sebkrier Which part?

@SHL0MS @sebkrier For starters, you invoke “stochastic terrorism” over a meme when all of the the actuall terrorism comes from your side. “Our boring policy proposal [apocalyptic ideology that treats AI development as existential threat] can't produce violence.” lol ok mr bad faith

@SHL0MS @sebkrier Thanks for being specific about what you object to. I know that distinction is cognitively taxing for folks but I stand by it.

@SHL0MS @sebkrier Thanks for dying on this remarkably bad-faith hill. I hope others take it as a warning about what happens when you read too many blog posts and not enough old books: your brain atrophies, and eventually you find yourself defending stupid means in pursuit of even stupider ends

@SHL0MS @sebkrier Interesting how the same people who go with "bad faith" as their criticism see fit to do it in such a low-quality way

@SvenSchnieders @sebkrier high quality is pulling strings to get people fired and low quality is using the word stupid

@SvenSchnieders @sebkrier What strings have I pulled?

@sebkrier You've done a whole video about a meme tweet. Have you not stepped back for a second and thought about how negatively this reflects upon you and your movement?

@sebkrier I’m comfortable making a whole video about a meme tweet based on who tweets it, what it contains, and whether their echo chamber wants to die on the hill of not taking it down.

@sebkrier Your prerogative but have you stepped back and considered how this looks to people who aren't ⏸️ advocates? Your doing a huge amount of damage to a movement you claim to support. At what point are you doing a cost benefit analysis over this sort of action?

@sebkrier I communicate outside our echo chamber on a regular basis, and my best sense of the general reaction to Seb’s post is that it’s unacceptable. Would you personally advise him to leave the tweet up?

@sebkrier Yes, judging by the approach ⏸️ have taken deleting it would be interpreted as some admission of wrong doing, despite him doing nothing wrong I don't know what his personal views are but if he's anti ⏸️ keeping the tweet up and so ⏸️ continuing to discredit itself is wise

@sebkrier But I think you may be missing the point - by discussing this for yet another day, doing a whole half hour video on it, you are coming across to the outside world as not serious people who's campaign is not serious.

@sebkrier Regardless if you think Seb was wrong or right, continuing this conversation is hurting your movement. The best steps strategically, even if you think Seb is wrong, is to delete all the tweets about it and stop talking about it and hopefully recapture a bit of credibility

@sebkrier To clarify, you think the right move for Seb and DeepMind right now is to not delete the tweet, and also to make it publicly visible again?

@sebkrier This is a bad take. Unfortunately, it seems like the only thing you're accomplishing is making things more combative and trying to bring attention so people can be aggrieved or upset.

@sebkrier I disagree it’s a bad take. I also don’t know why you think the way to resolve the situation is through me.

@sebkrier Bringing more attention to this seems bad, mobs piling on and attacking people for bad takes seems bad, and making this about Seb supposedly disagreeing with GDM seems like it's undermining your own goals by poisoning the doscourse.

@sebkrier Have you considered simply calling for the tweet to be deleted, or are you comfortable with the tweet being left up publicly? Cuz I’m not comfortable with the tweet being left up, and the potency with which it draws attention is actually related to the reason it’s unacceptable.

@sebkrier 1. He locked his account, it's not publicly accessible. 2. The screenshots like the ones you included will keep it available forever either way. 3. Don't pretend most of the Pause folks would stop yelling if he deleted it; they'd demand an apology, then his resignation, etc.

1. Leaving the account private with the tweet posted to 25k followers isn’t a great resolution - it’s a way to die on the hill that the tweet wasn’t inappropriate to begin with. I for one would continue finding it useful to point to the semi-private undeleted tweet to point out ongoing unacceptable behavior, but hey, it’s less additional unacceptability per day than before. 2. Yes, something happened whose consequences can’t be fully erased, but deleting it helps takes the temperature down and advance toward a resolution. 3. I don’t speak for other folks. I personally have consistently said that I see “fireable” offenses made but that there are other acceptable resolutions. It’s true that I personally would be looking for explicit acknowledgement by Seb or a company representative that the tweet was unacceptable.

@sebkrier I definitely think that @sebkrier could lower the temperature by deleting the tweet. You've admitted that wouldn't be enough, but fine. And I think any apology would be about how it was taken, since intent has obviously been grossly misinterpreted, which should not be validated!

@sebkrier All of that said, the temperature he would lower by deleting the tweet is mostly the fault of AI pause folks' reactions - so I'm now at least somewhat against Seb deleting the tweet, on general principles, since it would be a response to the bullshit, grandstanding, and mobbing.

You all have done more to discredit the possibility of a pause than any other group in history. You run around with this cancellation bullshit because you either can't understand memes or are willfully misinterpreting them all while inspiring your discord members and others to commit acts of violence and make violent threats. PauseAI is currently the most effective anti-pause, accelerationist organization on earth.

@sebkrier

@sebkrier Good lord delete this and never ever post again

@sebkrier Oh my god, you just can't stop. This is narcissistic injury behavior.

@sebkrier After the last 48 hours, I wouldn't trust you to write parking regulations let alone AI.

@sebkrier i’m sorry man but this is a completely unhinged level of response to a meme

@sebkrier If you like naive reasoning by category membership, you'll love "AI is just a tool"

@sebkrier ok serious and important question. do you believe a) seb does not actually intend physical harm, but the very presence of a gun in the meme is threatening, so it’s concerning independent of a threat OR b) the image itself indicates seb might actually brandish a firearm

@sebkrier (a) is on the right track. Here's another explanation:

@sebkrier ok so *you* don’t find it threatening. and you’re worried about literal minded people taking it the wrong way so why on earth didn’t you rt it with “hey i know seb doesn’t mean harm, poor choice of meme” instead you poured gas on the fire!

@sebkrier This is the hill you want to die on? Weird choice, but OK, I guess. Your reputation is definitely dead.

@sebkrier Since you know enough to predict the future of my reputation, I wonder what you predict will happen with Seb's tweet?

@sebkrier Nothing will happen. When the next event happens in outrage cycle, his tweet will be forgotten, but your reputation outside the ⏸️ community will be forever ruined.

@sebkrier the quadruple down, impressive.

@sebkrier Dressed in a suit, spoken like a clown. Worlds a circus.

@sebkrier

@sebkrier This seems in bad faith, you are usually much more reasonable that this. Please go back to virtuous Liron

@sebkrier Pause has done enormous damage to their movement in the last 24 hours

@sebkrier Why is everyone dunking on this video? It made clear points and wasn’t unreasonable in the slightest Also:

@sebkrier Thanks

If you’ve been deep in the Twitter echo chamber, you might want to run the Seb tweet situation by the outside world.

@sebkrier i can't trust a man with the vocal tone of a 7 year old. respectfully, of course.

@sebkrier Maybe peptides can fix me

@sebkrier one can dream.

@sebkrier Have you asked Claude if doubling down on this by making a video is a strategically correct PR move?

@sebkrier I dont even have a real opinion on AI and still I think you are being a lil bitch lmao.

@sebkrier i thought this was all gonna be in russian for a sec

@sebkrier Extremely well-articulated position (only watched the first ten minutes, but assume it continued). Ultimately I think deconstructing memes or imposing any kind of tax on frontier AI workers expressing their own views is a bad direction to go - outside the specifics in this case.

@sebkrier I disagree and plan to continue taking all public AI company leadership communications seriously and literally.

@jeffcafe_ @sebkrier This is the correct approach, especially since an estimated 10% of their employees are successionists who actively want us wiped out.

@liron @sebkrier It’s a consistent approach, but I just don’t think it’s a good idea to strip the context here of it being a casual cartoon reply to a cartoon character account. Judgement call - this needs lower weight, I want these off the cuff responses to be encouraged so we get a sneak peek.

@sebkrier Haven't watched this yet. Q: will liron have a normal response to this, disavowing those who replied to Seb for weird awkward political reasons, & offer support to Holly during her time of crisis? Let's watch and see!

@sebkrier i feel like i'm going crazy. everything you say here is extremely reasonable and i don't understand the people in the comment section

@sebkrier Shut up pussy

@sebkrier you brought up comparing violence to enforce a treaty vs vigilante violence. there's a meaningful distinction between the two that Yudkowsky explained here better than i could, worth reading if you haven't already:

@sebkrier Great post. I endorse these distinctions.

@sebkrier mate, why am I not fucking surprised to see a WEF puppet in the opening of your video. Look, it's quite simple; If governments are now using models against their populations, it cannot be paused. It is now a Second Amendment RIGHT. All men, created equal.

@sebkrier Hey Liron any way you can give a summary? I wanna hear what you have to say but I don’t have half an hour right now.

@sebkrier If you read my recent tweets & replies, it elaborates on the same “Communication 101” reasons why Seb’s tweet is unacceptable to post or leave up. Much of the X echo chamber has been blind to these because they’d rather focus on whether people are “pretending they don’t get it”.

@sebkrier Thank you