:they are both right the difference is that they are arguing from a different point of view.

1st guy's point is not so clear, while the 2nd guy is asking all the right questions . It's like the 'men are trash' issue . To me, that translates that all men are trash . No matter what good you'd do , it would never be acknowledged cos you're a man . Male feminists have this tendency of excluding themselves from 'men' .

How did men start patriarchy? This is a genuine question.

being fluent in English is a problem coz some people just talk for the sake of talking fluent English like Jabulani

He’s saying firefighters can’t be praised for switching off the fire because it was started by humans. And by virtue of being humans, they created the fire. Stupid take.

This is the same argument whites have that they didn’t start apartheid or perpetuated it so why are they blamed for something they didn’t do, and it’s not all whites. Do we ever accept this argument when the system favours them or we hold them accountable since they caused the🔥

The first guy needs to make a unique distinction between problems caused by men towards women and problems caused by women to other women, and also self-inflicted wounds. He’s mentioning patriarchy and insisting that all problems that lead to women needing protection from men are

Absolutely men are the problem and women never needed protection 🤧

Haha paradox situation...

Every men in South Africa particular us black men are responsible to protect our own women and children. It doesn't matter what you think, and say that 1 can't be exempt. You responsible because you raise these men but since most South African men are deadbeats you create this kids and leave them with no fundemtal of morals and values nor role models, that's your responsibility as a father, community leaders and as human beings. I've seen lots South African like this gentleman here not being able to comprehend the realities of what role his suppose to play in society, not a single time do we acknowledge and hold other men responsible. There's a rooted cause and instead of pointing stupid fingers we men should be holding ourself accountable. What are teaching the kids????

Now , here’s a constructive debate