This is a great skirmish/ heated discussion about church transparency between 'The Religion Business' filmmaker Nathan Apffel and Ruslan KD. From religionbusiness on Instagram.

Also here is the pie chart in question.

Also who do you side with?

Ain’t this one of the big problems with some Christian’s today? The entitlement? If I give to my Church, I’m giving willingly because I believe in the work the Church is doing through Christ. If they use my donation improperly than that’s on them. It’s not my money anymore…

A church shouldn't have a board of directors. Its not a business. The governing body of a church is a plurality of elders.

Transparency doesn’t threaten integrity, it proves it. 🎯

Never heard about Nathan but I don't think he's wrong at all. I'd love to see that kind of transparency in all SBC entities.

I just pulled up 5 excel spreadsheet pages of my churches budget. Shows pastor salaries and everything. They emailed it to me. I didnt even ask for it.

Unfortunately, Nathan's documentary relies on discredited figures like Julie Roys. Effectively stunts the message.

Tbh I don’t see why anyone would be against complete church transparency. The church I go to does an annual business meeting where they go through the financials and answer any questions the congregation has If you give money to a place, you’re entitled to know what exactly is being done with that money

This is exactly what we were given at my last church. Not cool

And there it is. His view of a congregant and their relationship to the church is stakeholder and the offering an investment. It’s no wonder he’s up in arms about treating churches like businesses, he completely misunderstands what a church is and b what the offering is

Should the early Christians have demanded transparency into how the apostles were using each of the donations they gave them?

Every church I have ever been a part of had detailed financials each year, even down to how much spent on office supplies. Each ministry, staff position, how much spent on missions, questions asked and presentations given at the annual meeting - no fancy, colorful pie charts.

The most revealing thing in that 3 hour conversation is that Nathan clearly does not hold to an orthodox view of the authority and inerrancy of scripture. His argument about the Apostle Paul’s words could just as easily be applied to the apostles that recorded the words of Jesus

The difference between churchepreneurs like my neighbor Rhythm “Church” & it’s influencer Ruslan & @OceansideURC is what this video said: one is a business while one is a ministry of the gospel with oversight, accountability, & the fear of the Lord for what we do in his name.

We belong to a GARB church that is mildly reformed. Open books. Pastors salary's out there and voted on. Not that hard folks if you have nothing to hide let the church see it

LCMS Lutheran here. Every member of the church can see the financials. We even vote to approve the budget. We see how much every employee makes and what boards can spend. I love the transparency and it motivates me to support the work of the church.

I’m very thankful for Nathan’s work/exposore

Apffel has a point and I wish people wouldn’t just shrug him off because they may like Ruslan. If you can’t tell someone how much a pastor makes, that’s wrong. Not because they always think he is overpaid. What if he’s being underpaid and funds are going to something shady?

I am not sure why this needs to be discussed publicly. It’s between Russian, his church members and God.

I think Nathan is pushing too hard against the pie chart. I think it’s about the bare minimum of acceptability. I think the biggest issue with it is what he said, making sure that one or two people aren’t eating an unhealthy portion of that line item, while everyone else is unpaid. The biggest issue he brought up here is not knowing the board members. This is different from what I’m used to which is members approving an annual budget and any capital projects and getting quarterly reports drifting congregational meetings. I think this is the best way to handle it while not having to have avote on buying a box of crayons for the kids ministry. Openness should be preferred I think.

We do a line item by line-item budget that we give to our congregation. Yes, we are a small church, but we show where every dollar is going and will even give a printout of the account spending if they want.

OK but why is this so accurate

He’s only showing expenses too 😹

Don't trust, verify. Trustless is the future.

What Nathan is doing is so crucial for the future of the American church. Hopefully the people who get the correction will receive it, repent, and make the changes for everyone to see. Set an example, and others will follow suit. Nathan really is doing gods work out here to restore and rebuild the American church, biblically.

Healthy skepticism and accountability are not bad things. Paranoia, mistrust and whatever Apfell has going, is another thing entirely.

Fantastic exchange.

Nathan is a fraud and he’s been debunked time after time.

Ru$lan

Ruslan is obviously correct here. Nathan doesn’t even have his theology right.

um.... "touch not his anointed"?

My dad always asked to see a church’s financials before we joined because a main way an unhealthy church is shown is in its relationship with money.