Turn JavaScript off in your browser and then come talk to us

Listened to this bit this morning and I wanted to reiterate what @stolinski said about it working *before* the JS loads. It's similar in a way to your point that the site should not require JS for the initial render. But in either case, a big part of the benefit of doing this actually has more to do with DX than UX. If you commit to things working without JS, then you commit to keeping state out of the client which means you simplify your data management and syncing a great deal. This is why people loved talking about how Remix's approach (and the approach adopted by all the frameworks now) allows us to not think about application state management anymore. Because when you're progressively enhanced you naturally have a simpler mental model. I talk about this more with an example in my RenderATL talk:

The point is not to accomodate for those who disable JavaScript...is to allow users with spotty internet connection to still use your website before JS loads. My stance is: make your website usable without JS (use forms, links, query parameters, SSR) and go crazy as soon as JS loads!

Counter point:

Turn the WiFi off and then come talk to me.

This is a spicy take but it's realistic one

nobody turns off JS - but it’s a very useful proxy for when JS breaks or fails to load, which happens way more often than people like to realize

Every @remix_run demo ever 🤣

What about people like me who want JS but also have to deal with rubbish phone signal on my morning commute? Also define "works"...it's not that everything has to be perfect but I should be able to get at the content.