why you should NEVER buy ROA as Ryze

Youre not counting the stats you get from the level, the catalyst passive, and the seraphs shield has a cooldown and usually gets partially wasted.

the entire point is to snowball fast and hard with this build i can confidently say i generate 1k extra gold / game compared to if i went bumass RoA in my games just because i have better combat stats to win fights and snowball and play risky also s16 is recall meta, you can instantly reset a lane condition to net 0 by taking a base after shoving, which ryze excels at

I dont play ryze so idk whats correct im just saying a pure numbers calculation is not the way to show it because ROA passive has a ton of raw stats value, a slightly better build path and probably was "meant" to be ryze 1st item whether its correct or not

people seem to be misunderstanding the point of the build. 1. it is not the "theorical mathematically best" build. obviously RoA is a good item on ryze in isolation, but your 1st item spike is just too pissweak and does nothing, and the power from seraphs just ends up getting you more fed. 25 ability haste is INSANELY VALUABLE when ryze's E CD scales down with rank, from 3.5 to 2.5s. i will get 1-2 more E's off per skirmish, and 0-1 extra W's when it's needed in close fights. I can say with confidence that Seraph's rush is what wins me fights in chall solo queue in the first 10-15 mins. 2. the biggest reason this build is good is because of actualizer. you can go seraphs -> actualizer, and get it within the first ~20 mins of the game and come online 5-7 minutes quicker than with the standard build. this 2 item spike has much better 1v9 potential than roa seraphs. not to mention, your CDs also tick quicker during actualizer and your shield is amped. 3. you compensate for your "lack of tankiness" by building more lost chapter items. MANA = AP = DMG, and also MANA takes your actualizer active from 30% all the way up to 50% with seraphs -> actualizer -> ludens -> blackfire -> dcap. blackfire is optional, you can sub it out for void staff, zhonya, etc. You deal an insane amount of dmg and catch ppl offguard with a 1.8k hp shield. 4. if you think you need catalyst for lane, and you're not vs qiyana/zed/fizz/viktor, then you are playing the champion wrong or don't understand how to lane / play with waves / recall. aside from those champs, i have never once thought "i wish i had catalyst here!" when instead i can 1shot the casters at lvl 9 (even lvl 7 sometimes when i get fed) and become a tempo machine. not to mention how forgiving season 16 is with homeguards lasting to the furthest wave, even on the worst recall i will lose 1 minion on avg, or none at all.

You buy ROA to get your level 16 power spike faster

and im saying your solo queue teammates will sprint it down faster than you can reach level 16 (i speak from personal experience, the inting never stops, not even in challenger) if you are a pro player, ur teammates wont int you before your spike, making RoA a good purchase in comp but in solo queue its too weak

I agree

*correction: 53 more ap not 63

"You cant be playing for the 25th minute when you're playing Ryze". ??? Imagine playing for mid to late game with a scaling champ. Lets give up so much survivability and scale to deal %10-20 more dmg at min 10-15. And When you compare why is roa unstacked and seraph is stacked?

giving up what survivability? you literally have better survivability from 1st-2nd item spikes and at 3rd-4th item spikes it is equal or slightly worse a 1200 hp shield with 50% amp from actualizer is 1800 hp if you can't pilot the build because you're bad, just say so

I don't rlly agree w the roa topic but if u want to go seraphs, why not go fimbulwinter 2nd and THEN go actualizer?

good question, i have tried this before. it just deals no damage. and 2k spent is 2000/2800 = 71.4% of the way to actualizer, which is far more valuable to get. not a single champion in the game can out statcheck ryze during actualizer if he buys it within his first 7k gold spent. also, i'm sure you know as a zac player, there's a ton of %max hp dmg in the game. unlike other champs that have the ability to build a ton of ap, ryze doesn't want to spec into resistances. so you just get 1shot by champs like gwen gnar vayne etc. the fimbulwinter build for ryze would be: roa -> seraph -> actualizer -> fimbulwinter (stacks dont matter) -> riftmaker. honestly, this is the build i recommend for lower elo ryzes, but if someone is able to pilot ryze and knows their fundamentals, then my build that skips roa is the best for game impact in solo queue. and i must stress again (not saying u dont get it, but someone reading this might not), that this BUILD IS OPTIMIZED FOR SOLO QUEUE GAME IMPACT! So many fights where I used to go RoA, my opponents would survive because my rotations are on cd (0 haste) or my champ just does no dmg because 45 AP item XD. so i ditched it entirely in season 16.

ton of hp* not ap, typo sry

aren't you ignoring the roa healing

healing won't matter when you 1shot them in fights, or can cheat recalls in lane thanks to ur champ identity

nigga you are retarded ROA passive and sustain is what makes worth for its statistical lack also you are also comparing min 1 roa with fully charged seraph nigga you are dishonest AS FUCK fuck you nigga

I think you're cooking here fr. Coming online at 1-2 instead of 2-3 would work a lot better in current league esp in solo q.

I feel like the stat comparison is a bit disingenuous because Seraph is 90AP (95 with manaflow which you will have fore sure) and it's less if not stacked but in general I'd say RoA into Seraph isn't a good build in solo Q for ANY champ because it's way too lategame skewed

The point of roa is surviving lane with ruby crystals

you really don't need that to win lane... and recalling is insanely broken in season 16, esp. with ryze's waveclear, you can just get back to 100% HP, lose 0-1 minions (usually 0), and be stronger for the skirmishes instead of spending 1.3k gold on jank ass tank stats

@Chaveco_23

The build path is good and the teory I like, but wont you need HP for surviving early bad MUs? Learning ryze and I too feel RoA is a fake item in general

Does this only apply to ryze? What about other champs that can build both?

i think the effective HP(shield) on seraphs can be fake at times against cooldown based champions - initial burst to proc seraphs -> wait for cds as seraphs shield expires -> 2nd round of burst also as ryze maybe if you go rod you can opt for only numbers advantage scenarios and not take even fights, its kinda like saying a smolder should play for every early dragon and not wait for his power spikes i think its a good idea if the rest of your team wants to perma fight early but it shouldnt be a default every game 1st item

Ragebait or retardation?

bro thinks hes redesu 🤣🤣🤣 nahhh i cant with these retarded league nerds thheorycrafting shit Bruhh Ong

How many minutes after purchase does it actually turn into Seraph? You don't have it the instant it is rushed

This man working hard to lower Ryze wr, so he dodges nerfs. RoA is about sustain, not power. If you wanted to make that argument, ok, but don't pretend we buy RoA for it's fight potential and not for how good catalyst is for sustain in lane.

how about muramana as an item? basically youre stacking so much mana that maybe buying a tear early after seraphs to get it as 3rd/4th sounds kinda good?

unfortunately the build path kind of blows. i build all lost chapter items (except for malignance) because the build path is insanely busted on ryze. for reference: sapphire crystal is >= amp tomb for ryze when u buy a lost chapter, it's as if you bought a 60-70 ap item instead of a 40 ap item, since the mana gives you dmg on seraphs, actualizer, and ur abilities. and it comes with haste, and the mana converts to shielding on seraphs activation

I don’t play ryze, or even really any mages at all, but does the catalyst passive not make any difference? Regardless, the value of 25 haste alone is insane.

i only build RoA vs champs like zed/qiyana/fizz. the catalyst passive doesn't matter if you're piloting ryze correctly. i have never once thought "oh i wish i had catalyst for sustain" in any of my challenger solo queue games. just shove and recall if it gets dicey

Dumbfuck takes. Everyone knows you get both. RoA first. All you need to know.

I think roa is bait, but you are undervaluing roa's effects for making yourself tankier and also overvaluing archangels shield as it's not likely to be fully tanked + its conditional. Do agree though its hard to play a scaling playstyle in soloq when game is decided by 15-20min.

@Veigar_v2 thoughts? (u play ludens seraphs, but seraphs first?)

roa seems fine here only if you need catalyst to survive the lane since that component is op

Uhhhhhh tear rocket belt seraphs shadow flame only build for ryze

My actual main its ryze and I understand the purpose of the build, but you dont think that you need the extra hp and level in sidelane? And i want to know if you build this when you're behind? Im gonna try this build some games to check it out

if i fall behind, something has gone wrong but it is still strong while behind, building pure dmg while behind is generally good

Korean ytber built this long time ago. I tried but as a main Ryze, this build work only when you super fed and your enemy is squishy. Otherwise, you just short range zigg.

the build is what gets me fed every game in challenger - with RoA, i would not get as many kills and get fed it takes a lot of ryze mastery to pilot for sure though

I think this build will suit more on Top than mid thank to range-melee matchup and you can take the level from ROA from toplane quest. In mid, before you can touch enemy, they threw a 88 skillshot at you and back under turret wait for CD. You literally can do nothing

all this did is show me how disgustingly busted ryze is holy

Seems interesting Does this work for cassio as well? I assume you also need roa vs heavy dive/assassins though What would you change for top lane ryze or do similar arguments hold?

no it does not work for cassio cassio has a different build. Seraph -> Riftmaker -> Liandrys -> Bloodletter -> flex item (dcap/zhonya/jaksho/visage/shadowflame) riftmaker: 8% dmg amp liandrys: 6% dmg amp bloodletter: 6% dmg amp at first, then mr shred so u get anywhere from 20% to 14% dmg amp. cass has enough mobility this season, she needs more damage. obv, difficulty curve is high because foregoing rylais makes it harder to pilot the champ

Ryzes meta build rn is roa seraphs actualizer what you on

and yes, that build is GREAT in competitive! but not for solo queue. ryze feels giga useless in solo queue when ur first item has 0 haste and 45 AP upon completion. whereas the alternative is 100 AP, 25 haste, and more mana + comparable tankiness. why dismiss a build just because its "not meta?" i've mained ryze for 10 years in challenger with a ~60% winrate. i know the champion's limits, and going seraphs and not building RoA allows me to make far more plays than I ever could with RoA, thanks to the raw damage and haste. Not to mention the tempo/waveclear, you won't have an awkward phase at lvl 9-10 where your EQ leaves the casters with 1 hp.

This is cool and all, but why would Riot recommend RoA if I should never buy it

yes please, so that i can vs ryze as katarina

Thoughts on starting tear then 1st back lost chapter into then ROA or do you think it will delay full item spikes?

Your options are: 1. Dring 2pots 2. Refillable sapphire 3. Tear 2 pots 4. 4 pots sapphire Ive been liking dring or refillable sapphire these days. 4 pots sapphire reserved for top lane or super volatile lane in mid Starting tear is a bit meh, would rather cheat economy with refillable or be strong with dorans