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๐๐๐ฒ ๐๐๐ฅ๐จ๐๐ฒ ๐๐๐ค๐๐ซ๐ญ๐, ๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๐๐ฌ ๐ ๐ฆ๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐๐ ๐ ๐ฃ๐ฎ๐ฌ๐ญ ๐๐จ๐ซ ๐ฒ๐จ๐ฎ ๐คซ๐ Theyโve prepared something truly specialโwanna know what it is? Check out the video and make sure youโre ready to meet them soon! ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐-๐๐๐ โ๐,๐,๐ ๐๐! ๐๐๐๐ฒ๐ฆ๐ฉ๐ข๐โ ๐ข๐ง ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ Date: 7 June 2025 (Sat) โฐ Time:... show more
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#ExtraCancha LO TIENE PRESENTE TODO EL TIEMPO ๐ฅฐ Taylor Swift no solo brillรณ en el escenario de los Grammys 2025, sino que tambiรฉn por su presencia y su peculiar outfit que podrรญa ir con dedicatoria incluida. Entรฉrate aquรญ. ๐ #Grammys2025 #GRAMMYs
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![Oh My God!!! ๐ฑ Corbell Threatened to Release Hundreds of UFO Files, Which Were Also Given to Hundreds of Journalists! And Then He Backed Down! One Problem: It Never Happened I found the Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell clip I wanted to show you. But First: The claims... "Jeremy Corbell threatened to release hundreds of UFO files." ~Red Panda Koala And... "Jeremy Corbell says hundreds of journalists have been given the secret UFO files that will be released, if..." ~Red Panda Koala Full (inaccurate, IMO) claims, and the actual transcripts, are here: โฌ๏ธโฌ๏ธโฌ๏ธ The following interview was uploaded several days after Corbell made those early-June comments that are now going viral, and for which he's getting a lot of hate over. This is a more complete explanation of the situation. Andy, forgive me for uploading such a long clip. I know this won't answer every question but it should educate folks on what was said. Or what was meant. And I'm sure it will calm the haters. ๐ฅด ~ Andy (That UFO Podcast): In 'Sleeping Dog,' you get your laptop out towards the end of the documentary. You know, dramatic, you dig some sh*t up. You've got a pen drive, you open it, and you see these files. And I'm sure, like many folks, I'm pausing frantically, reading all these names of files. I can just see the bottom of and the top. And I'm looking around your laptop screen. "And we begin to see clips of those videos. Now, those came out within the second release from the war dot gov, UFOs. Can you, first of all, clear up for me...we heard you had 46 videos that you were going to release." Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell: "No, who said that?" Andy: "So, generally, online, there was 46 videos were coming out. I think 52 came out. This is what I want cleared up, though. You know about those 52 videos that came out. How many came from you? Because the feeling online - and this even was for me - was, Jeremy's got his documentary, he showed what's going to come, and then within a couple of weeks we had the second drop, and bang, here's all these videos. Can you just clear up how many videos that were dropped, came from your end, and what's the story there?" Corbell: "Zero came from my end. Zero. Those are government-filmed UAP. They were provoked to release them by a variety of ways. George Knapp and I gave a multitude of lists of UAP filmed by our military, to Congress. They validated, they vetted, they found out where they were. We told them where they are, we had eyes on them, making sure they're not going to be deleted. "This is something we've acquired over decades, George and myself. You know, the newer ones are kind of the the best, I would say. You know, better hardware than, let's say, 15 years ago. But...so none of them came from us. That...it is government-filmed footage. "We identified the file names and file structures and location of holdings, gave that to Congress, and it's not just the 46. It actually surprised me when Rep. Anna Paulina Luna put out, and it was a gangster move. Rep. Luna put out a public letter to Pete Hegseth saying, 'Here are 46 files that we want.' "They didn't mention...it's actually 14 Air Force files that we've identified - even to the Department of Justice - that there's a bottleneck in UAP reporting within our own government. Remember 'Immaculate Constellation,' the idea of like, siphoning off the best footage. Well, George and I were able to identify that in Central Command, that there was a nexus point where there was a bottleneck, and the best UAP footage and evidence was being siphoned off even before it got to AARO. "Even our, you know, who were kind of enemies at a time, we informed AARO that there's this bottleneck, and if you want to find out where the good sh*t's going, we told them where. So, when you say 46 videos, 52 videos. Bro, there are probably hundreds of thousands. Very little ever get to reporters like George and myself, and it takes years for us to vet and verify. "And then, you know, anybody that leaks videos to journalists - if you consider them sources- they're at risk, you know, when journalists publish them. So, I have always been fighting. And then people yell at me, and they're like, 'It's not good enough, and the frame rates aren't right.' And all this weird sh*t. They're just baiting to try to like, dig in and try to investigate sources. It's all a charade. Everything with that online is a charade. They're just trying to entrap people. "So what we do, is we take the heat and we just keep doing the reporting. We gave Congress way more than 46 file structures, file names with locations, with evidence they exist. But we don't possess anything. We can't, legally. We can obtain and release. I'm familiar with, have access from time-to-time, too. "You know, you have to be really smart as a journalist on what your rights are. That's why I have a federal lawyer, which you learned in the movie is Chuck McCullough. Kind of one of the best federal lawyers you could have, now that I've admitted it, right?" (McCullough was the first Intelligence Community Inspector General, represented David Grusch, and is HIGHLY respected. The fact that he's representing Corbell is something that's lost on the Corbell haters.) Corbell: "So, basically, those are the protocols. Our government has hundreds of thousands, in full-motion video, which is like a layered, sensor system from satellite platforms, as an example, which you've never seen, no one's ever seen. With incredible fidelity, showing all-domain UAP coming from space-to-air-to-sea and back out, from sea-to-air-to space. That's fact. I know that for a fact. I have been witness to a lot of that information. "But I did not give anything to Congress except file names, and they verified, vetted, and put out a public letter for 46. They kept the other ones private, which I think was smart. Because sometimes even just the the file names themselves, you know, could be an issue for 100 reasons. Does that clarify what you're asking?" Andy: "100% And even in the Discord, when that drop happened, everyone's Discords and stuff were going crazy. People were asking, 'Are these the videos that Corbell and Knapp have provided?' So there has been this idea, from some, that you guys gave them the videos. But what you've given was the locations, how to get them, where they were." Corbell: "The exact file names and locations, with verifiable proof that they do exist, that they did exist upon delivery, of those titles. You know. I'm not gonna just... You know, and also, what we get, when they ask for them, from Pete Hegseth and Department of War, is when they do release them, which they were provoked to do. That's the thing. "And they're not all out. The 46, just read the file names that were in that list, and then look at what was released. They are not all out. So think about that. They give you the underhanded pitch, the bottom of the barrel. And George Knapp and I, as I have said, we're gonna continue our reporting. "But it's kind of like a warning shot. You're like, here's what is in the hands of over 100 journalists, including podcasters now. Meaning they they can get access if they need. That's a whole process. But, essentially, we're telling them what journalists have. So what you can do is get in front of it and release the full, original files. And then nobody argues about frame rates, nobody goes after sources. "That's the way it should work because the onus is on the United States government because they themselves have said that we are going to be transparent about this, we're gonna be putting out all this information. Good, good. "So you've started, and it was total happenstance that the first release was on the premiere of 'Sleeping Dog' date, In in the sense that, I had no idea they were going to do that. It's kind of hilarious. But, you know, we did inform them before about the movie and that we're gonna, you know, do our journalism. So, you do the math." Andy: "Yeah, no, that's useful. And can we just confirm, I am not one of the podcasters who has those files before I am raided, or the CIA get in touch." Corbell: "Nobody has the files. You know, George and I have been sure to back up our work and provide an ability, if anything goes sideways, that, you know, the American public gets what they need. You know, it's very simple, dude. It's not like cloak and dagger. "You have to make sure that when you're reporting on things of national-security concern, that you don't damage national security, A number one. I'm an American, I live here, I love my country. Like, straight up. But also, you put things in place so that you're not the only one who's been able to see or have access, at time. And that's what we did. "We did that to protect sources, whistleblowers, and the information itself getting out to people. I don't possess anything, Andy. Of course, you don't. You're a foreign journalist to me. I'm sorry, but that that's another aspect to it. Is that, even though we have Five-Eyes Alliance, we've never hung out and had a beer, dude." Andy: "Not yet." Corbell: "[Laughs] I hope to." Andy: "Next year's Contact [in the Desert], maybe. So those 100 journalists... Because so many folks got in touch with me to ask..." Corbell: "100-plus." Andy: "100-plus, journalists and podcasters. It's not like you've sent out a special-edition pen drive and went, 'Here's all the files, if something happens.' But there are ways and means that if something did happen to yourself and/or George (Corbell: "Oh yeah"), these folks can access this material?" Corbell: "Yeah. I said it in Episode 60 of Weaponized, right? So we have, as journalists, we have covered and made sure the American public will never be, you know, the American public will never stay in the dark about what we've reported on or what we have to report on. But, you know, we have to go slow, we have to vet everything. It's just an insurance thing that that people would have instantaneous access. "I don't want that, either. Like, I don't want...you can't tell your friends, somebody, without telling your enemies. You know, and I don't...I would rather that we just continue doing our journalism under First Amendment, in America, without any interruption, in any way, that is illegal. And that's what's been happening. You know, the influence campaigns and the threats and that kind of thing. "So, yeah, man, I don't know how far we wanna go into that, but just base-level, we have made sure to protect the information that George Knapp and I have obtained over the decades. We don't hold in possession of anything, but at the same time, we've democratized the way that information will get out if we're stopped in any way, and that's just how it is." Andy: "And you guys are in full control of that, that no one can go rogue that has the information, or, you know, 'Ah, f**k Jeremy and George. I can access this. I'm gonna go off and find.' No, you guys are in complete control of that?" Corbell: "No, because that's a national-security issue because the nature of any information that comes to us in this realm. But additionally, that's not the right way to go about... I don't wanna go too deep into this, but that's not the right way that journalists operate, right? Is, you don't just haphazardly... So, no. Is that okay? Just end with no?" Andy: "You can end with 'no' on that one. It might come back round in one of these other answers to a different question." Corbell: "Okay, yeah."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2081202383699493125/amplify_video_thumb/2081202165331509248/img/jsys9LHkgy_JDuJI.jpg)
![๐ฝ๐ธ Grusch on Disclosure: "I am, surprisingly, confident." ๐ธ๐ฝ New Grusch: Disclosure, "could trigger a response [from 'them']." Lue in 2022: "If you acknowledge it exists, you can force the hand of...something to do something that you're not prepared to have happen yet." ~~~ (I am NOT confident, but I'm REALLY hoping to be wrong. If Trump brings us meaningful disclosure, his name will go down in history.) Grusch: "There's a lot of like, collateral effects. If you're not careful with certain stuff, you can, you know, trigger a response. And there is great fear that... I don't necessarily believe in this, but like, there has been assessments in the past that, you know, revealing certain things may, you know, trigger a response from a third party." Rogan" "Trigger a response from them? From these entities?" Grusch: "Possibly, yes. And that has been written up. Government think tanks wrote that up in reports to previous presidents." Rogan: "So, the theory is, that we disclose, people are now aware of it all over the globe, and they decide to show themselves?" Grusch "Yeah, I mean, I think there's a real fear of like, a Ghostbusters moment, I'll say." Rogan: "Oh boy,." (Are we talking about pulling Gozer and lots of spirits into our dimension, or a Stay-Puft-Marshmallow-Man event? ๐ Lue Elizondo, and others, have spoken about Disclosure possibly triggering an event.) Timothy Good: "From what I've gathered, many of the aliens don't want us to know what they are doing here. And that's kind of understandable. And 'they' could take retaliatory action if, say, those few people in the United States Government wanted to start talking. And it's quite possible they've done that already. So, it's not in their best interests." (I don't have the date for that quote but I'd guess that it's from a book or lecture of his from the 90s.) Lue in 2022: "From a national security, when we go into a country, and we're doing, let's say, Long-Range Surveillance, right? And I send in a LRS team to go do reconnaissance because we're gonna invade a country. Well, the moment that country finds out that I'm conducting reconnaissance into their borders, the jig is up. I now have to invade, I have to attack because the element of surprise is over. "So let's just say, hypothetically, waaaay just remote possibility that whatever is out there is planning to come here in 50 years. Let's just say. But, the moment that the American people find out it's real - and by the way, the American government acknowledges it, and the world acknowledges it, right? Now, whatever. may happen in 50 years, now has to happen tomorrow. And by the way, we don't have any type of way to counteract it, or to neutralize it, or to exploit it. We don't under[stand?]...there's not a damn thing we can do about it. "So that's not really good, from a national-security perspective, that's not really a good place you wanna be in, especially when it comes to national security. Because the mere fact of telling somebody, 'Yes, they're here and we don't know what it is and we can't do anything about it,' may actually predicate an action you're not ready to have yet! "And so, in a very weird, kind of twisted sort of way, it actually may be a sense of patriotism that certain people have kept this quiet for so long, bc we don't have a counter-measure! And so, it is the one secret that, if you acknowledge it exists, you can force the hand of someone or something to do something that you're not prepared to have happen yet. And so, it's something to consider. "Now, let me say, for the record: I don't agree with that, OK? But, I can appreciate that, I can understand that. I can understand that somebody who's very patriotic and very senior, says, 'Look, the mere fact that we have this conversation could lead to something we're not ready to deal with yet.' And so, I get it. And again, I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm simply saying, I can appreciate that, and I understand it, and it's not as...it's harder to demonize someone if that really was their motivation." Source is my 215-tweet thread from 2002: ~ John Keel to Friends in 1967: โOnce the UFO powers realize fully that we are aware of their plans, they might feel it necessary to take immediate action." ~Back to Grusch on Rogan Today~ Grusch: "And it's one of those things where I'm trying to walk the line and be as diplomatic as possible, and also trying to prepare the populace at the same time. Because clearly, the government hasn't right now, and, I mean, Trump wants it out for sure. His team needs to be astute enough to know what to ask for, you know, massage the deep state, and get that information. Because we just saw Tim Burchett on Benny Johnson's podcast talk about, Stephen Miller called him and was like, 'Hey, I'm getting blocked, like, physically blocked from access to a lot of this stuff.' And, you know, that's very concerning." (Matt Laslo broke that story.) Grusch: "I would say Stephen Miller is an alpha dog, he's a pit bull. I do appreciate the fervency he is attacking the issue behind the scenes, and I just, I think he needs guided the right way and informed, and kind of how to cut this deal." Rogan: "I met him very briefly at the UFC event at the White House, and he told me that it's gonna come out. I'm like, 'Okay.'" Grusch: "That's good! Well, there you go." Rogan: "It was really quick." Grusch: "Yeah." Rogan: "He's like, 'I know you're interested in this.' This is literally all we talked about. 'The UFO thing is gonna come out.' I'm like, 'Okay, when? When's that coming out? Let's go [laughs].'" Grusch: "Exactly. (Just for context: The first three batches of UFO files were released on May 8th, May 22nd, and June 12th. The White House UFC event was on June 14th.) Grusch: "And Trump understands the subject pretty good, and, you know, he's in the know. And he understands some of the implications." (If he understands the subject pretty good, why does he only know SOME of the implications?) Grusch: "So, like I said, he has a lot of courage because this is likely gonna change society in a big way. I'm not like a social anthropologist or a psychiatrist. Like, I can't necessarily predict in what specific ways it might reduce, you know, feudal-nation-state, peer competition and other things, but it is gonna change. And I think, when people look back at this interview, it's gonna be very haunting because I think, in short order, you know, before Trump leaves office, we're gonna be in a new paradigm. "And I'm normally a very pessimistic, cynical person. A lot of my friends know that. But I have great confidence that the President is doing the right thing. And I feel there's eventually gonna...the people that are in charge of this are gonna have to comply with the President's order. But there's a right way of of doing this, I think. And like I said, I'm not some sycophant for the deep state. I'm a whistleblower, obviously, and, you know, I have philosophical differences about how this was kept and how they could possibly reveal stuff. "But, I am, surprisingly, confident, which is kind of weird for me to say. Because I just see the tea leaves, I know Miller's serious. There's other people in government serious. I mean, you even see Aaron Lukas, the DDNI, the Deputy Director of National Intelligence, you know, sign these big NDA waivers. It includes like, any kind of waiver of not even telling the president, sorry, you-have-to-tell-us kind of thing. And so, you're seeing kind of the chessboard being set. "I know everybody's not happy with the tranches coming out, with the low-hanging fruit videos and recordings and stuff. And Representative Burlison and I, before I left his office, recently, got a 1952 recording that was still classified from Blue Book, talking about the seriousness of this issue and all the crazy shit that they're seeing near nuclear sites and test ranges. Which is interesting, because in that video (it's audio) that's been declassified, it mentions the very sites that, in modern day, have that same anomalous activity to include stuff in the Southwest. I can't say where, it's in the ecosystem in the open source, but the executive branch hasn't acknowledged what specific tests and training range. They're seeing crazy orbs that they can't explain [that] accost helicopters and all that, so."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2105474269392314473/amplify_video_thumb/2105419286986784768/img/HvfaRQJkkEGOxr2U.jpg)
![๐ฝ Did Grusch See Footage of Live Aliens? ๐ฝ "Grusch has seen evidence that will leave you slack-jawed when you hear it." ~JF ๐ถ What Left Congress Speechless, and Staffers with Their Eyes Popping Out of Their Heads? ๐ฑ ~ "Examine biological evidence of living or deceased non-human intelligence." ~Burlison Proposed Legislation (I'm gonna break all of this down and give you my speculation on what left Fox with his jaw on the floor, members of Congress speechless, and their senior staffers with their eyes popping out of their heads.) ~ James Fox: " Probably about two weeks ago (late May), we were having meetings on The Hill with members of Congress. We brought in a PR firm, 42 West, and we were having a meeting with staff members, bipartisan. We had Rep. Anna Paulina Luna, Rep. Tim Burchett Press Office, Rep. Eric Burlison. We had a representative from Congressman Jared Moskowitz's office. We had a number of Chiefs of Staff (top staffer for a specific member of Congress), like, present." (Don't really know why they needed a public relations firm in attendance, but if it helps them with advice on how to handle this, so be it. Just know: it appears like members of that PR firm know what Grusch said, and we don't.) Fox: "And, I can't reveal what was said. I thought it was gonna be said at the actual event that we had yesterday (June 9th) in DC with Mr. Grusch." (Don't be mad at Fox for keeping his word to Grusch and not sharing what was said in that private meeting. But I don't blame people for being annoyed that Grusch shared this information six or so weeks ago and we still don't know what he said in that room.) Fox: "Then, what Mr. Grusch revealed to all of us, what he had seen with his own eyes, left the room speechless. It drew the oxygen out of the room. I looked at everybody in that room, and their eyeballs were popping out. My jaw was on the floor. Like, I simply couldn't believe what he'd seen with his own eyes. Like, I can't wait for it to come out. "So I asked Mr. Grusch today, 'Can I talk about what I heard?' And he's like, 'No, but I will be addressing it very soon.'" (Like I said, it's almost been one month now (June 12) since Fox said this, so what does "very soon" mean? Was Grusch supposed to share this information on CNN with Jake Tapper last week but it didn't happen because that interview was, reportedly (Fox told us), postponed?) Fox: "So that's where we stand right now. But I can tell you, Mr. Grusch has seen evidence that will leave you slack-jawed when you hear it. It's coming, it's coming." (We heard that Gruch's Op/Ed was coming soon and that was 2.5 years ago. It never happened. So, I don't blame people for being skeptical about this. If Grusch hasn't told us by this time next week, I propose someone (a member of Congress) who was in that room just tell us. That's fair, right? Total transparency from our elected representatives?) ~ Fox: "Mr. Grusch is legitimately concerned about his personal safety. He's coming out with it, I promise you, this is coming out. He assured me today that he will address this issue to the general public very soon, in the near future." (I'm glad Grusch told a room full of people what he saw, as that may offer him some protection from people who allegedly want him to stop talking.) Fox: "So I can't speak to what he's gonna say, but I'm just telling you from what I heard out of his mouth, sitting in an office of a member of Congress? And everybody (Fox laughs) in the room, you could have heard a pin drop." Clayton Morris: "Could you give us a hint? Is it related to craft? Can you maybe dance around it a little bit? I want to say, 'You're killing me, Smalls (laughs).'" Fox: "Yeah, so if you can imagine, if you know about 'Moment of Contact,' that involves captured non-human intelligent beings. Think about that for a minute. Think about that case. I heard it out of his mouth, and I can tell you, I was in the room. And I looked around the room, and I'm looking at these young, like, guys in their 20s, you know, the staff guys? And their eyeballs were popping out of their head. My jaw was on the floor. I couldn't believe it." (There's a reason why I included that quote (living or deceased non-human intelligence) from the new Burlison/Carson/Crane legislation at the top of this tweet: At the very least, I'm confident Grusch told them that he saw photos of dead non-human beings. Bodies. But what about evidence of LIVING non-humans, aka aliens of unknown origin? More on that at the end. Fox: "My jaw was on the floor. I couldn't believe it." (Would Grusch saying he saw photos of craft and dead non-humans have that type of effect on Fox? Seems like that's something he would have expected to hear.) ~ Fox: "It was an [out of] body experience when I heard that. But I can tell you...the impression I got, was that he felt a little more protected to talk about this because of President Trump's directive to release the files, and that this... Again, this is my speculation, okay? This is not what Mr. Grusch said. "I got the impression that he was much more relaxed - even though he was still not fully relaxed - because of President Trump's directive to release these files. And that it was something that he had seen during his official investigations just within the last few years." (Imagine how much more relaxed Grusch (and others) would feel if we had an actual Executive Order from Trump with strong language to protect whistleblowers?) Fox: "And that it...I think it had an extremely profound impact on his life when he saw this evidence that he described. Again I'm leaving it right there. I've been talking with Republicans, and they said if Joe Rogan tweets about this, that the President will hear it, And I can't overstate the significance of that." (Why hasn't Rogan already done that? No excuse. Fox has been on Rogan and I'm sure he has Joe's contact information. Make it happen.) Fox: "We need people. We're not asking for money, we're not asking to get on your show, we're just asking, Mr. President, please, as many people as possible, release the files that should not be associated with national security. And that's the alien or non-human sentient beings. That's it." ~~~ (I'm going to speculate on what Grusch may have said in that room.) Fox: "I think it had an extremely profound impact on [Grusch's] life when he saw this evidence that he described." (Grusch has said he started out as a skeptic when he started looking into this. If he was shown what he felt were photos of non-human bodies, I think that might be enough to have an, "extremely profound impact on his life." Depending on exactly what those photos showed, of course.) In "Moment of Contact," Eric Davis had this exchange with Fox: James Fox: "Put me wherever you were when you got to see photographs of crash retrieval and documents. What did that feel like?" Dr. Eric Davis: "That was startling, when I actually see recorded evidence with my own eyes. Photographs, reports, and whatnot. That took it to a higher level, that kicked it up several notches of reality. And that made it very clear that this reality is very hard, very physical, very real. "And this type of evidence, you can't come by in the open literature, it's not public, it's classified. And I can't discuss what it was, but I can tell you, yeah, it's a crash retrieval, there's a craft, and there's alien bodies. That's all I can say about it." Fox: "You swear on your life that you saw those pictures?" Davis: "Oh, I swear on my life, and everybody's...my children's life, so (laughs). Yeah, I'm absolutely telling you the truth. I saw the evidence, and it's stark! I can't tell you the exact number, because it's classified, but I'll just say, there's a few dozen total retrievals." Full exchange with video... ~~~ As I said in my other post, I think Davis, Semivan, Puthoff, Kelleher, Grusch, Lacatski, Stratton, aka The AAWSAP Gang (I just made that up), may have seen the same evidence of photos and reports. Has Grusch seen more than that? I don't know. In 2025, Davis said this... Burlison: "Can you comment on whatever species have been piloting these craft? Are they largish? Are they multiple species? What was their size, and how many are usually on a craft?" Davis: "They're typically the multiple species people are familiar with. The Greys, the Nordics. People have talked about Reptilians and Insectoids. It's not that they're Reptilian or Insectoid, it's that they resemble, to the participant, a reptile, or insect type. A humanoid, because they have this...a hand, and four limbs, and a torso, so..." Burlison: "Large? Small?" Davis: "Human size, human scale." Burlison: "How many are in a crew?" Davis: "Well, the group, well, the Greys I'm familiar with from investigating the crash at Corona, which is misnamed the crash at Roswell. It's not the crash at Roswell, it's the crash at Corona, New Mexico. Those were Greys, those were four-foot tall. And the Nordics are typically human-sized, probably...I've heard five, six-feet tall. And same with the people who mislabel Reptilian and Insectoid. They're roughly that height, too. I haven't heard anything about anything seven or eight feet or nine-foot tall, of that nature." Full post with video... ~ And this past Sunday, Davis said this to The Good Trouble Show with Matt Ford... Davis: "I can say to you guys that there are a minimum of four different alien species. The credibility of that ranges on the spectrum from no credibility to high credibility. The high credibility is the classified part." Full post: My Final Thoughts (Based on everything Davis has shared, it seems he saw classified photos of what appeared to him to be non-human craft and photos that appeared to show dead non-humans (bodies) with enough detail that he could see that some resembled reptiles and others resembled insects. Were there also photos of Greys and beings that looked human (Nordic)? I don't know. These images of non-humans would fall into what Davis deemed "high credibility" and "the classified part.") Davis: "I saw the evidence, and it's stark!" (If Davis saw close-up photos that showed details of beings that looked like Reptilians and Mantids, I'd say that qualifies as stark!) Back to what Fox said... Fox: "Then, what Mr. Grusch revealed to all of us, what he had seen with his own eyes, left the room speechless. It drew the oxygen out of the room. I looked at everybody in that room, and their eyeballs were popping out. My jaw was on the floor. Like, I simply couldn't believe what he'd seen with his own eyes." (I think what caused that reaction was Grusch describing seeing close-up photos of different types of non-human beings. Maybe.) However, Fox also said this: "...if you can imagine, if you know about 'Moment of Contact,' that involves captured non-human intelligent beings (This is the Varginha, Brazil case. ~Joe). Think about that for a minute. Think about that case. I heard it out of his mouth, and I can tell you, I was in the room." (The biggest CLAIM in that film and from that case is that a live, non-human being was captured and that Dr. Italo saw video of it, and then stood next to it for a few minutes when it was in the hospital, in a bed, being cared for by another doctor. Did Grusch say he saw evidence (photos or videos) of a live being that appeared to be non-human? Joe Rogan asked him that in his November 2023 interview... Grusch: "Once you realize the phenomenon's real, then you realize we've recovered artifacts and, you know, biologics or, you know, dead pilots, if you will, even though it's kind of creepy to think about in your world view. You don't think they were ever, you know, alive sometimes, too, right? And I'll leave it at that, only because, you know, that is something the President and his cabinet need to disclose this in a controlled manner." (He was either hinting that he's seen them alive or that them being alive and on this planet is a huge deal and not his responsibility to announce. I think it's the latter.) Rogan: "Are there discussions of interactions with live beings?" Grusch: "Uhh, there was some water-cooler talk about that kind of thing." Rogan: "But that's it?" Grusch: "But, you know, I don't even wanna get into it because it's like, uh, there was some details provided to me but it's like, it's secondary and I don't know if that's like, the telephone game and I don't know if it was hyperbolized in any way...um, you know, in the break room, so to speak. So I just... I'm so anal about making sure what I say is accurate...I don't, you know, I don't know." (Based on what he said there, it seems like he has NOT seen any evidence of live beings. If he now comes out and says that he has, it will seem like a flip flop. So, I'm gonna go with Grusch said he saw photos of non-human bodies and they were of the different types/species that Dr. Eric Davis referenced. One more flashback to what Davis said in that public, congressional briefing in May of 2025.) Davis: "It's not that they're Reptilian or Insectoid, it's that they resemble, to the participant, a reptile, or insect type." (That sounds like someone who has seen exactly what they look like, via photos.) Final point... "Examine biological evidence of living or deceased non-human intelligence." ~Burlison Proposed Legislation (That language was in the original UAPD Disclosure Act co-sponsored by Senators Schumer and Rounds, and four other senators. Why put that language in there if you haven't heard credible reports of living or deceased (bodies) non-human intelligence? Are there stories of living, non-humans on this planet? Yes, and I'll leave you with one of them.) ) (Just to make it clear: I think Grusch will say that he saw clear photos of different types of non-human bodies and some looked like reptiles and others looked like insects. It would be amazing to hear Grusch say he saw video or film of living beings, but I don't expect that. However...this still bothers me... Would Grusch describing seeing photos of craft and different kinds of dead aliens leave veteran-of-the-UFO-field, James Fox, with his jaw on the floor? I guess we're gonna see. And hopefully soon.)](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2075447649453691237/amplify_video_thumb/2075447438866006017/img/nXEwcYZHCI2fyrrG.jpg)
!["Tell us this isn't true." "They had a live being out [near Area 51]." "There were human experiments that went on." ๐ฝ๐ธ Roswell: A Non-Human Craft or a Darker Secret? ๐คซ๐ถ (Transcript is shorter than clip. I don't have room to type more in this post so I'll just wait for replies.) ~ Lex Fridman: "In your book on 'Area 51,' you propose an explanation that I think some people have criticized, at the very end. That this might have been a disinformation campaign from, I guess, Stalin, that the Roswell incident was a remotely-piloted plane with a quote 'grotesque, child-sized aviator.' Just looking back at all that now, years later, what's the probability that it's true? What's the probability it's not?" Annie Jacobsen: (AJ): "So, you know, I've never revealed who that source is." Lex: "Yes." AJ: "You know that? Want me to tell you?" Lex: "Okay, who was the source?" AJ: "So, before I say anything on that, let me speak to the question that you asked, right? So, you asked me, 'What's the probability that that is still standing as an idea, 12, 13, 14 years later,' right? So, I continued to work with that source for years, afterwards. We talked about this. Look, I mean, his whole family knew it was him. And I knew his family because I was an integral part of, you know, I was at his house, met all his kids, grandkids." Lex: "And we should say, the source is the main expert advisor behind the story that it was. Maybe you can explain what the story is that your report in the book, that it was a disinformation campaign created by Stalin to cause mass hysteria in the United States. The very kind that we've been speaking about with the CIA and so on." AJ: "Yes! Predicated on the narrative of the 'War of the Worlds,' right? And the 'War of the Worlds,' when it was a radio program in the United States, made people go crazy. 'Oh, my God, we're being invaded by aliens!' Well, the government was always interested in the story and Joseph Stalin was, too. We know that from declassified documents, right? "And so, the source told me that the reason for this program, and that the real Roswell crash remains, were in fact, it was a black-propaganda hoax infiltrated, you know, or rather, predicated at this idea that you were gonna overwhelm America's early-warning, air-defense system, cause mayhem and maybe be able to attack the United States. That was the plan. And Stalin was also messing with the United States, messing with Truman, who sort of, you know, turned his back on him, right? At Potsdam. "And so, this idea, and the reason that the source is important... And unlike, you know, a lot of people, 'I saw this, I saw that, I learned that.' Was, according to the source, once it was determined that this was a hoax and that Stalin was able to get a craft over the United States, and it crashed. And it had, you know, people inside of it, they were people that were sort of deformed and meant...surgically altered to look like aliens. "The United States government decided that it needed to know what on earth that was all about, and if it was possible for us to have the same program. This, according to this source, right? And so, it sounds preposterous, and if it was just someone saying, 'I...,' you might say, 'Well, it's ridiculous, get them onto another subject.' But, the difference was, is this source, who was very well placed, and friends with all of the other 75 people, you know, told me this as a confession, right? A real, tearful confession, because what he said is he was involved in the American program to do the same thing. And people died, because there were human experiments that went on." "And I write about this in the last 12 pages of 'Area 51.' It was an explosive, you know, revelation, and I felt very confident in writing this because the source wanted it written. Why? Because he said, 'I'm dedicated to my country. I know about being committed to national security, and this kind of thing must never happen. And if you give people too much power, they will take advantage of it.' And he wanted it on the record. "And his wife of 60 years did not know until after the book published. Nor did His children, okay? So, after the book published, I was called to his house and sat there with his family. And they said, 'Tell us this isn't true.' And he said, 'It is true,' right? (We need a tape of this confession or...for his family to confirm they heard this from him.) AJ: "Now that source is Al O'Donnell, who is the nuclear-weapons engineer who armed, wired and fired 186 nuclear weapons, okay? So if you wanna talk about someone..." Lex: "Woooooow." AJ: "You're the first person I've told that on the record, but it's kind of about time." Lex: "Woooooow. Well, you received a lot of criticism over this story, and it confused me why, because it's...given the context of everything you've described with the CIA and other intelligence agencies, it is reasonable that such action would be taken. AJ: "And, the source is extraordinarily credible, right? If you wanted to take the position, 'Well, that person isn't very reliable,' then you have to ask yourself, 'Why did they have Top-Secret clearances that are higher than any in the United States whatsoever?' Because he was responsible for arming nuclear bombs. He was called the trigger man. "And by the way, he told me that I could tell the world who he was. There's a lot of details that are really dark, involving that program. And when is it appropriate, right? Well, it feels appropriate now. First of all, because you and I have been talking for several hours. So this is what is truly a long-form conversation and it's the outcome of, you know, a very long time of my reporting, and also being judicious about what, you know, closing the loop on that, right? Because I do think it's important for people to know that sources have revelations." Lex: "And, like you said, the programs, both on the Soviet side, and the American side, conflicting, I think's the term we used previously? Ethically, morally, on all fronts. People have done some horrible things in the name of security. In your book, 'Surprise, Kill Vanish,' you write about the CIA." ~~~ Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell: "So, today, I want to focus on a really important story that you once told me, that has never been told all the way [from the] beginning, to all the way to the end. And I just think it's just so cool we get to do this today. So, the question I want to ask is: After you got hooked on the UFO thing, with Bob Lazar, and you as a journalist said, 'I'm gonna start getting sources.' Like, 12 people coming at you, people shut down by the government. You can tell that. But you finally, finally got to a credible individual who had direct, firsthand knowledge about UFOs, exploitation, reverse engineering, and beings. And, oh my God, I want the world to hear this story. Tell us the story." George Knapp: "I've shared some of it in very broad strokes over the years- little bits and pieces of it - without ever actually referencing, in my statements, the guy the source. But this will be the first time I've told it in totality. "And it takes me back to when I first started in this. It's 1989 KLAS-TV, we put together, we spent eight months working on this project called 'UFOs: The Best Evidence.' Nine-part series. It airs on television, it's the biggest thing that's ever been produced for local TV, to this date, and still. "And, along the way, as I'm trying to find...telling the story about Bob Lazar, and his allegations about what was out there at S-4, near Area 51 - recovered discs, alien technology being reverse engineered - I'm looking for people who would support that. And I found about two dozen people, witnesses who had worked out there, who had seen bits and pieces, who could corroborate parts of what Bob had said about these kinds of craft being out there in the Nevada desert. But there wasn't anybody big picture who knew as much as Lazar claimed to have known, so I was still looking for them. "In 1990, I started working on a follow-up series to Best Evidence, looking for new witnesses. And I got a hint from an elected official that I had known, I'd covered him in Nevada politics. He says, 'You know, you should talk to my dad one of these days.' 'Your dad?' 'Yeah.' And he told me what the dad's name was and what he had done, what job he had had. And I said, 'Ah.' So I started stalking the guy. I just started showing up at events where I knew he would be. One of those events was a reunion for employees of EG&G." Corbell (JC): "So I'm assuming that this source was working within EG&G in some capacity, which is, by the way, who Bob [Lazar] said, hired him to go out to Site-4, S-4 at Area 51. So you're like, 'Okay, I can now find out if this is bullshit, or if there's an element of truth to it.' Do I have that right?" Knapp (GK): "Pretty much correct, yeah. So, I'm looking for someone whose credentials are impeccable. Unlike Bob, whose credentials were questioned, and people still attack him on where he went to school and where he worked, and was he at Los Alamos? This guy is documentable. There's a paper trail of where he worked, what he did. There's no question that he was in a position to know. He was the first general manager of EG&G in Nevada. His name was Al O'Donnell, and he has a prominent family. "When I heard that EG&G was having a reunion, I went there. We took a camera [and I figured], 'This is a great chance to get him on camera before I start asking him the questions I really want to ask.'" JC: "And when you say he is a general manager, like, does that give him certain roles and responsibilities that would give him insight? Like, he's not a secretary, so what does that mean?" GK: "He's the boss. He was the boss of the Nevada office. And I'll tell you a little bit about EG&G. So, it was a company that was created in Boston, right around the end of World War Two. Al O'Donnell had been in the Navy, serving during the war. He got out of the Navy while the war was still underway and went to work for a company called Raytheon, which became this massive, gigantic defense contractor that's still around today, still in Nevada in fact." JC: Yeah, they've got a big connection to the UFO topic, right? But, when you say Boston, like, where in Boston was it created?" GK: "Well, MIT is where the company was born. Edgerton, Germeshausen and Grier were the three guys, the EG&G in that. They were at MIT. Scientists, engineers, they created this company there. And Al O'Donnell, who had been working for Raytheon, working on the Manhattan Project. He didn't know he was working on the Manhattan Project, but they were building these devices, complex triggers, that allowed them to detonate nuclear weapons. He learned later what he was doing was part of the Manhattan Project. "He goes to MIT, starts working with EG&G. Their company in those days had, I think, 15 employees, Al said. So it was a very small startup. But it suddenly exploded because the American atomic program exploded in those years. In 1950, Harry Truman decides that we need a permanent, nuclear testing site somewhere in the continental U.S., so they looked at a bunch of places, and they settled on Nevada. "Prior to that, Al O'Donnell had been sent out to the Pacific. They had five of these massive, atomic bomb tests out in the Pacific, and they decided to move it into a continental U.S. location and Nevada's Test Site - it was called the Nevada Test Site in those days - was chosen. Al O'Donnell leads the exodus from Boston, out to Nevada. They start hiring engineers and scientists, physicists and other security, spies." JC: "What are they working on at this time when they make that move?" GK: "Atomic bombs. They're building, testing atomic bombs. EG&G was a really precise organization that was created in order to detonate, measure and photograph atomic weapons. If you look in the history of photography, you'll see some of these amazing photos that they took of, you know, water drops dropping in water and...they're pretty famous shots because of these cameras that they developed. And it was perfect for use and testing atomic weapons and documenting what the process was. "So, EG&G comes out to Las Vegas, they are the managers of the Nevada Test Site. They, subsequently, years later, become the managers of Area 51 when it opens in 1955. So Al O'Donnell is the top guy. He oversees the nuclear testing program out there, manages it for EG&G, works with the Atomic Energy Commission. He has a Top-Secret security clearance and he can go anywhere and see anything. There's, basically, no restrictions, nothing that is outside of his ability to find out and see." JC: "So, this is an impeccable resume. This is somebody who was in position to know, and would know if someone like Bob Lazar was telling the truth or not telling the truth. I find it, personally, humorous that EG&G was, its genesis, its seed, came from MIT, right?" GK: "So, late 1990 or early 1991, I'd have to look up the dates. But somewhere in there is this event, this EG&G reunion. I go there, we got a camera, I interview Al O'Donnell, introduce myself, and say, 'Hey, I'm really interested in this, can we continue this conversation?' So he invites me to his home. He says, 'Come on over, we'll arrange to come over on a Saturday or something. We'll sit down, I'll go through my scrapbooks and show you some documents and memorabilia and photos from that era.' I was like, 'Great.' "So I go to his house and meet this wife. And we sit down, he opens up these big scrapbooks, and he starts showing me all the stuff that he had done. Photos that had been taken out in the proximity of these gigantic nuclear tests. They had great stories about the camaraderie that developed among the engineers and scientists. And he's going through all this stuff and showing me all this. And I love it, I loved every bit of it. I've never had a bad day at the Nevada Test Site, by the way. Every time I've gone out there to do a story, it's just a terrific way to spend some time." JC: "Secrets should be kept, secrets are kept, and you are a proponent of keeping secrets when it's that kind of thing." GK: "Sure, absolutely. And I respected the boundaries that they set up for us in doing these kinds of stories. So I did go out to the Nevada Test Site a lot over the next 40 years or so and put together a lot of different stories. And they knew of my interest in that area that's just outside what the Nevada Test Site, a place called Area 51. In 1955, Area 51 was, basically, created and EG&G got the contract to manage Area 51, and had kept it for the next 30, 35 years. So, whatever went on out there, they had an inside knowledge of what was going on." JC: "So, you meet this guy, Al O'Donnell, for the first time when he's at this public thing. You probably say something like, 'Your son told me to talk to you,' or something. Whatever. It ends up, he invites you to his home, and you're going through scrapbooks, and he's showing you all this atomic testing stuff that he was involved in. GK: "Yeah, and I'm telling him, 'Boy, this is really interesting. That's fascinating. I'd love to do a story on it.' And after we're there for maybe two hours, he closes this one big scrapbook and he goes, 'You're not here to talk about this, are ya?' I said, 'Well, not exactly.' He says, 'I know what you're here to talk about. I know what you want to ask about.' And right about that point, his wife walks in and she says, 'Don't start telling them that stuff! Don't even tell him!' And he kind of joked about it.' JC: "What were you there to talk about?" GK: "UFOs, UFOs. Area 51, Bob Lazar, crashed saucers, reverse engineering, to see if he had any knowledge of that, because I'd been led to believe that he did. So he closes that book and he says, 'We'll have we'll get together another time and we'll talk about it in private.' And over the course of the next two years or so, he and I would meet at coffee shops and talk about it. And I would ask him questions, and really, it was like pulling teeth. He wanted to tell me stuff but he made me work at it." (AJ says his family was there for the confession. Knapp has over two years of meetings with him. A bit confusing.) GK: "And the condition was, I couldn't take any notes. I couldn't record it, I couldn't take any notes. So each time I'd meet with him, I'd rush back to my car and start scribbling notes on pieces of paper so I'd remember everything that he said. And the story that he told me, that evolved over those couple of years was pretty fantastic. "He said that they did have a flying saucer that had been recovered from New Mexico. I think he indicated that it had been taken from New Mexico to Wright Patterson Air Force Base, which is... He never said Roswell, but I think it was the Roswell incident is what he [was] talking about. And it confirmed some of the details about what we know, likely, happened with the Roswell craft." JC: "When he's telling you, 'We have recovered a craft,' did he say it like, this is secret, don't tell anybody?" GK: "Yeah, it was just for my knowledge, my background and information. It wasn't a story I could do then. We were negotiating about how, or when, or if I could ever use that information or make it public. He told me the details about this craft. He said that it had been stored at Indian Springs. Indian Springs is an Air Force Base that's been there for a long time. It's now called Creech. Indian Springs existed before Area 51 was made. "But he says it was there, they kept it there. It might have been in an underground facility, I'm not quite sure. But then when Area 51, after it opened in 1955, they moved it to an adjacent facility. He didn't say it was S-4, he didn't say it was Papoose, but I think that's what he's talking about. Papoose Lake is where Bob Lazar said he worked, and where they had built nine hangars underground, disguised to look like the desert, and where they had other recovered craft. "He says they worked on this recovered craft, reverse engineering, trying to figure out how it worked, who built it. Whether or not they could duplicate the technology because, apparently, they thought this was pretty advanced, and they'd like to be able to build more of 'em. "And he says it was a very closed program, very small. It was only, I think, five of them that were aware of it, at least in the early stages, that were working on this project. And it was very hush hush, and they didn't share it with anybody else in the company, or anybody else in the area, or the military. They just kept it to themselves. "So, after we're having these meetings - and I go back and write down all these notes and stuff, details about what he had shared with me - we have another meeting at a coffee shop, and I said, 'Well gosh, you know, aren't you worried that it would get out, that the word would get out?' "And he says to me, 'We were worried It would get out?' That's right. 'I mean, what...it? What do you mean, it?' It. Meaning a live being, they had a live being out there. I go, 'You had a live being, an alien as well?' [O'Donnell said], 'Tell you the truth, we didn't know what it was.' I said, 'You know, maybe it came from millions of miles away, out in space, and you're keeping it in a cage near Area 51?' He said, 'To tell you the truth, we couldn't communicate with it in the beginning. We didn't know what it was, we didn't know where it was from, and we didn't know what to do with it.'" JC: "When Al O'Donnell says to you, 'We had a live alien, a being,' obviously from another world, what was your feeling?" GK: "Well, I was overwhelmed, because it was, in effect, confirmation of things that I had come to believe, because of the reporting we'd already done. And then the evidence of cover ups and lies that had been told to the public. Here's this guy in a high position, with a high security clearance, telling me that it was true. That they really did have a craft and they had a being. "My second feeling was, one of overwhelming sadness for the being, whatever it was, you know, that was kept out there. I asked him, you know, what had happened to it, what became of it? He says, 'I don't know. I don't know whatever happened to it.' But it was out there for a while, alive, and eventually they figured out a way to communicate with it. "And so I asked him, 'Well, what did it look like?' And he made me guess, as he did with all these questions. He made me guess. He said, 'Well, it kinda looks like a certain political candidate.' I said, 'Well, who? A political candidate? Who?' And at the time, Ross Perot was running for president. He said, 'It looks like Ross Perot. A little skinny guy with a big ears and tiny head.' Not a classic Gray-looking alien, but a very odd-looking creature with really big ears, that looked like Ross Perot. And I laughed. "And so we had these conversations for a while, and I was blown away by the information that he shared. I took all these notes. I was hoping that someday, I might be able to get the information out. And I asked him, 'Look, you're getting up there in age. If I can't record something with you, could you record a statement to the effect of telling me the story on camera, and then when you pass on, I can have the tape?' And he said, 'Yeah,' he would do it." JC: "You know, look, I've heard a lot of wild stories that I can't verify. A guy's telling you something, and you get a sense as a journalist, when you go down a road with somebody, and you take your time and you vet it... Did you feel...I mean, is there any world where he's trying to f*ck with ya? Or is there a world where he's trying to, you know, dissuade...kind of put crazy information into your brain? Like, how did you feel when he was telling you this? Was he like, straight with you?" GK: "Yeah, he was very straightforward. And again, this was not information he was giving up, willingly. I mean, I had to really dig and coax and arm twist to get him to cough things up. And it was very slow-going over about a two-year period, maybe a little bit longer. And I know that this...you always have to be wary of people with different agendas and people that just make stuff up. I didn't get that sense from him because of his standing in the community. He had shared this story with members of his own family." JC: "And that's why they came to you, is because they kind of [gave] you a tip. And these members of his family, they're serious people, too." GK: "Yeah. One of his sons is an FBI agent, or was, he's passed on now. One was an elected official in Nevada. That was the one that gave me the tip." JC: So, I just want to nail this [down] so I understand. You were approached because he had shared this with his family, privately, and then you had to kind of coax to get through to him about the story?" GK: "Right." JC: "I think that's important because look, these things don't happen, like, people [don't] just come to us and say, you know, crazy stuff, and we're like, 'Hh, yeah, cool. Sounds good.' Like, the dynamic of that, socially, as a journalist, like getting in there, taking time. You know, we have to verify if what he said is true, and there are some major bombs coming about that. But it's like, that process is so important. "So here you are, you're sitting with him, he tells you now, they have a live alien. And you felt sad because you're an animal-rights activist, you love animals. I know with your cats at home and you've done horse stories and all the stories about like, the inhumane stuff to animals. So it made you personally sad, makes me sad, too now thinking about it." GK: Yeah. Well, we had these series of meetings, and then the last time we met, after he'd agreed to go ahead and record a tape - and give it to me after making an arrangement so I got it after he passed on - he said that he had been told to not talk to me anymore. He said he had been given a warning [and] it was not a good idea for him to talk to me any more about anything. Not just that topic, but anything." JC: "Well, who knows that you're talking? Who would warn him?" GK: "I don't know. I don't know. But you recall, back in those days, there was surveillance. We had our phones tapped at KLAS-TV. There were guys following us around. Me, Bob Lazar, Gene Huff, maybe Robert Bigelow." JC: "People were also coming to your news station, OSI. And they would come in and try to like, get to you and then they'd show you their card...and take it back. And you know your phones are tapped. So it's like, because of this story, all of a sudden you're on high alert. So, anybody could have called him, been watching you, had meetings with the guy. So what you're saying is one day he just said, 'I can't...I'm not allowed to talk to you any more.'" GK: "Yeah, I've been told not to talk to you anymore. I've been told not to."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2079616298435400152/amplify_video_thumb/2079612656366112768/img/mxq1uM4Cp0iG8pyw.jpg)
![๐ธ ๐ฅ Grays vs. Reptilians โ or Something Much Stranger? ๐ฅ ๐ธ โWeโve documented that.โ ~Grusch, on apparent NHI-versus-NHI conflict โIs this some other kind of weird shit?" ~Grusch (That line stood out to me. โฌ๏ธ) Grusch - Tic Tac = Reptilians Davis - Tic Tac = Grays (Credit to Grusch for sharing things that most people will immediately reject because it's all so outside of their worldview and sounds crazy. Is it true? Let's hear from the people who claim they experienced this and let's see the photos, reports and videos Grusch says he's seen. Until then, I'm withholding judgment. But it's not as if we haven't heard about Grays, Reptilians, Nordics and others...for decades.) ~ Joe Rogan: "So tell me more about these Reptilians that your friend encountered. They were alive?" David Grusch: "Yeah." Rogan: "So they were alive post-crash?" Grusch: "Yes." Rogan: "Why do these things keep f*cking crashing?" Grusch: "So, some of it is NHI versus NHI." Rogan: "What?!" Grusch: "Yeah." Rogan: "They war in the sky?" Grusch: "Yeah." Rogan: "Isnโt that in the..." Grusch: "You think itโs like, wouldnโt they get along? Theyโre so advanced. But uh, the...we have records of them f*cking around with each other." Rogan: "Is that in the Mahabharata or the Bhagavad Gita?" Grusch: "I don't know." Rogan: "Thereโs like, talk about sky wars in ancient Hindu texts." Grusch: "Oh yeah, in the Vedic texts, the blue people. And I know thatโs why you asked blue. I donโt recall them being that blue, but, you know." (He's referring to the human-looking cadavers. โฌ๏ธโฌ๏ธโฌ๏ธ โฌ๏ธโฌ๏ธโฌ๏ธ ) ~ Rogan: "Right." Grusch: "I got a short little look, I'm like, ten seconds." (Again, talking about the video pan Grusch says he was shown of human-looking cadavers.) Rogan: "Maybe when theyโre alive, theyโre darker." Grusch: "Well, that is true. Thereโs like a postmortem change in that affect (appearance/complexion is what he meant)." Rogan: "Sure, like people." Grusch: "Yeah." Rogan: "Thatโs what happens with people." Grusch: "That is true, because, you know, as they were struggling and then died, obviously, their affect changed (Cross-talk so I can't make out the last few words. Maybe, "looked like sh*t.")." Rogan: "Now, this friend that encountered Rep[tilian]... First of all, weโll go to the Greek-god people first. What did their craft look like?" Grusch: "Uhh. boomerang, crescent moon, usually. Not all the time. Itโs kind of like, once I go back, some people like to drive the Porsche 911. That tends to be - not all the time - but thatโs what they like to roll up in [shrugs]." (What type of sources does he have for that? How many?) Rogan: "They talk about them as the Tall Whites." Grusch: "Yeah." Rogan: "Were they tall? Were they large?" Grusch: "They looked tall to me. I didnโt have..." Rogan: "Hard to tell because you donโt..." Grusch: "I didnโt have a ground reference, really. I would say at least human size. They could be like..." Rogan: "Just looked very similar to humans to you." Grusch: Yeah, they could be, my big ass is 6'6", but, like, they looked big." Rogan: "Similar to humans?" Grusch: "I think so. And, there might be taller... Once again, Iโm sure thereโs other stuff I donโt know about. Iโm sure thereโs other variants of them, too, that look more towards, like, the classic um... What is it in ufology, like, Nordic or, you know, Tall Whites - that are probably even taller." (He's sure there are other variants of the human-looking beings ? Based on what? Is that speculation or did he hear or read about that from a credible source, or sources? And I'm not talking about civilian reports.) Grusch: "If some of those experiencer stories are true, which, once again, as long as that source is credible, that might be a thing. So, I think we need to be prepared to kind of...that being a thing. I donโt know, So, yeah." (As long as which source is credible? Each individual experiencer, or the source(s) he (Grusch) dealt with?) Rogan: "Yeah, that makes sense. Now, the Reptilian craft, what did that thing look like?" Grusch: "That one is Tic Tac-looking." Rogan: "Uh-oh." Grusch: "Yeah." Rogan: "I was hoping they were the cool ones." Grusch: "Yeah." Rogan: "The Reptilian ones are the ones that everyoneโs terrified of." Grusch: "Yeah, and once again, like, weโre doing like... And, of course, itโs not always the Tic Tac. Once again, kind of like, what I said, but, like, that tends to be them. From what I understand...obviously, hopefully Iโm not wrong, but Iโm, you know, pretty good sourcing on that." (Tends to be them? So the Reptilians sometimes ride in Tic Tacs, but other times they ride in craft that have different shapes or configurations? Or, are the Tic Tacs usually piloted by Reptilians but other times piloted by other types of beings? Why do I ask? โฌ๏ธ) ~~~ H/T: Neil Goodman for also noting this. Here's Dr. Eric Davis in the "Age of the Disclosure," released in November of 2025. Dr. Eric Davis: "We have seen highly-credible, U.S. government intelligence on the Soviet recovery of a crashed UAP in 1989. They recovered a Tic Tac-shaped UAP that was twice as big as the Tic Tac that was encountered by the USS Nimitz Carrier Strike Group, and they did recover four bodies of humanoid aliens. The Soviet scientists took apart the recovered craft and discovered a very advanced directed-energy weapon." ~ And this is from "Moment of Contact: New Revelations of Alien Encounters," released in December of 2025... James Fox: "Put me wherever you were when you got to see photographs of crash retrieval and documents. What did that feel like?" "Dr. Eric Davis: "That was startling, when I actually see recorded evidence with my own eyes. Photographs, reports, and whatnot. I can tell you, yeah, it's a crash retrieval, there's a craft, and there's alien bodies. That's all I can say about it." ~ (And finally, this, from an interview Josh Golembeske (Josh Golembeske) did with Dr. Eric Davis in July of 2026.) Josh: "Is that the one you saw in the photos, the Grays?" Davis: "Yeah. Yeah. This was foreign intelligence collected so this is a foreign crash, and that's classified, so I can't get into that. But the photos I saw came from the site of a foreign crash retrieval during the Cold War." Sourced here: ~ (If those comments refer to the same Soviet retrieval โ and I'm connecting dots here โ Davis appears to be saying the Tic Tac-shaped craft contained Gray bodies. Where does that leave us with what Grusch said about the preferred craft of the Reptilians being a Tic Tac?) ~~~Back to Grusch on Rogan~~~ Grusch: "When you see, like, malevolent behavior, right? Itโs like, well, thatโs a humanistic lens. Youโre seeing, like, an animal-lash-out-in-captivity kind of thing. Or theyโre in duress, theyโre having an emotional experience, et cetera. And itโs like, you know, are they actually scary, or is it just because of the situations weโve been in with them? And so, weโre kind of biased and all that. So, yeah." (In other words, the Reptilians might not be so scary and "malevolent" if we encountered them in a different situation. There are reports of positive encounters with Reptilians. Like this... โฌ๏ธ ~ Rogan: "And so, these Reptilians, what did they look like?" Grusch: "Now, Iโve never seen that, personally." Rogan: "Right, but what did your friend describe them as?" Grusch: "But, itโs like, very, almost like, um, seven-foot-tall-plus, uh, sort of gorilla-looking, scaly skin, though." Rogan: "Gorilla-looking...reptile gorillas?" Grusch: "But thereโs multiple types. Thereโs ones that are more humanoid-looking, so." (What's he basing that on?) Rogan: "Thereโs multiple types of Reptilians?" Grusch: "Yeah, and Iโm not an expert on that one. Thatโs, once again, I never saw it in person to get the exact, you know, description." Rogan: "See if thereโs an artist rendition (laughs)." Producer: "I'm looking already." Rogan: "Of course you are." Grusch: "Yeah, and once again, it sounds so schizo." Rogan: "It does (laughs). A gorilla with scales." Grusch: "Like, even for me, as an ex, deep-state intel officer, Iโm like, I cannot f*cking believe Iโm talking about this shit on Joe Rogan." Rogan: "Seven-foot-tall, scaly gorilla (laughs)." Grusch: "I know. I mean, it sounds schizo. And itโs like, coming from somebody like me, you know, who is a credible person and has been in government, itโs like, Iโm gonna be that guy. Iโm gonna be that guy. And then, like, down the road, people will review Joe Rogan and heโs like, 'That motherf*cker, we thought he was crazy, but, what do you know? You know, itโs true.'โ (Time may tell.) Rogan: "Well, of course, if there are things from somewhere else, youโre going to sound crazy describing any of it." Grusch: "Because itโs so outside my experience, because I never had some kind of woo thing growing up or some sort of interaction with the phenomenon. So, it feels so outside my personal comfort level and experience because Iโm relying on the personal experience of others, you know, audio/visual stuff." Rogan: "Yes." Grusch: "And it still feels like Iโm watching a movie. Like, itโs like, โIs that...is it real?โ I mean, I know it is, but, like, I have a cognitive dissonance a little bit, you know? So," (I'd think that most of the world will have cognitive dissonance if this is ever proven to be real.) Rogan: "And how were you able to watch this video? Do they have to put you into a secret room?" Grusch: "Yeah, I wonโt get into the exact way it went down, but, uh, weโll just say it was kind of sketchy, but...to keep everybody safe." Rogan: "And so, there apparently is NHI-versus-NHI warfare?" Grusch: "Weโve documented that." Rogan: "Documented it?" Grusch: "In collection. Well, what we perceive as warfare. So, unless itโs something..." (I'd love to see what intel has been collected and how many sources and incidents are involved.) Rogan: "Conflict?" Grusch: "Yeah, it looks like conflict, it smells like conflict. Is this some other kind of weird sh*t? I donโt know. And thereโs maybe an assessment on that, but it..." ("Is this some other weird sh*t?" is an important comment from Grusch, IMO. It shows he's using his analytical mind (like all of us should be doing) and not accepting things at face value. Is it two NHI species at war with each other, or is that just what something wants us to think?) ~~~ "We're part of a symbiotic relationship with something which disguises itself as an extraterrestrial invasion." ~Terence McKenna โI think itโs something so bizarre that it actually masquerades as an extraterrestrial so as not to alarm us by the true implications of what it is.โ ~Terence McKenna "I discussed this once with an entity and it said to me, 'Well, you know, we've disguised ourselves as an extraterrestrial invasion so as to not alarm people with what's really going on.'" ~Terence McKenna What did he mean by that? McKenna: "What I meant by that was that an alien invasion is a myth of our culture. Since the 50โs weโve had the example of The Day the Earth Stood Still and When Worlds Collide right on up through that television series which I didnโt see, where they changed all the Nazis to aliens and then it was a huge success. So alien invasion is a piece of our cultural toolbox, but thatโs not whatโs happening. Whatโs happening is somethingโฆ less easy to name than 'alien invader' is reaching out toward us. It could be the Gaian Mind, it could be the Oversoul of humanityโฆ I donโt think it comes from the distant stars โ it knows us too well, and loves us too much. It could come from the dead. Now thatโs what I mean by something weirder than an alien invasion. An alien invasion compared to a collective mass contact by the dear departed is pretty mundane stuff. "So, whatever this thing is, it keeps itself masked. So what I mean is that our journey through time, our historical journey to this moment, has not been unaccompanied. We have always been accompanied by this thing. The Demiurgos โ some people just throw down their cards and call it God and be done with it. Iโm not ready for that, because I donโt think itโs the God who 'hung the stars like lamps in Heaven,' as Milton said. Itโs not that God. If it is a god, itโs the god of Biology. And I donโt have any problem with that." He adds more and I'll link to that in the replies. Then we have this from 1970 and John Keel's "Operation Trojan Horse." ~Begin OTH Excerpt~ Whatever "it" is, it is often inimical (tending to obstruct or harm. ~Joe) to the human race, and the manifestations range from childish mischief to acts of horrifying destruction. The phenomenon has driven many people mad; but it has also produced miraculous cures. A cosmic system of checks & balances seems to be an actual fact. There are now well-documented cases of people being seriously injured, even killed, by flying saucers. But there are equally well-documented events in which the mysterious objects and their enterprising occupants have interceded directly in human affairs and thwarted disaster. Many flying saucers seem to be nothing more than a disguise for some hidden phenomenon. They are like Trojan horses descending into our forests and farm fields, promising salvation and offering us the splendor of some great super-civilization in the sky. But while the statuesque long-haired โVenusiansโ have been chatting benignly with isolated traveling salesmen and farm wives, a multitude of shimmering lights and metallic disks have been silently busying themselves in the forests of Canada, the Outback country of Australia, and the swamps of Michigan. Before we can find any answers, we must first find the right questions to ask. We must understand the exact nature of these visitors, and of ourselves. I also believe that this same phenomenon is flexible to an unbelievable degree. It can create and manipulate matter through electromagnetic fields above and below the range of our perceptions and our own technical equipment. The phenomenon is mostly invisible to us because it consists of energy rather than solid earthly matter. It is guided by a great intelligence and has concentrated itself in the areas of magnetic faults throughout history. It makes itself visible to us from time to time by manipulating patterns of frequency. It can take any form it desires, ranging from the shapes of airplanes to gigantic cylindrical spaceships. It can manifest itself into seemingly living entities ranging from little green men to awesome one-eyed giants. But none of these configurations is its true form. The UFO sighting data confirm this theory, but we lack the necessary technology to prove it conclusively. There are thousands of microscopic life forms in a drop of water. You canโt see them, feel them, or taste them because they are too small. A teenaged boy with a cheap microscope can peer into that drop of water and invade the privacy of those microbes. But the microbes donโt know he is there. They swim about in their liquid environment totally unaware that their tiny world is actually an insignificant part of a much larger, and very different, whole. Our world may also be part of something bigger, something beyond our senses and abilities to comprehend. That bigger something is undoubtedly made of energies, too. But energies of a different frequency, forming atoms radically different from the atoms of our own world. These energies could coexist with us and even share the same space without our becoming acutely aware of them. The evidence we have outlined in this book does clearly point to this unperceived coexistence, and now we must come to terms with "it" or "them" or the Great Whatzit in the sky. This intelligence is able to manipulate energy. It can, quite literally, manipulate any kind of object into existence on our plane. (Assuming what Grusch says is true, and there's evidence of conflict between different NHI, is the phenomenon able to manipulate energy and create multiple physical craft and "species" into existence, and make them appear to battle so that we think it's the Grays vs. the Reptilians? Or is it actually a battle between the Grays and Reptilians? I don't know, but I'd love to hear what Keel would have thought.) Back to Keel's OTH... There have been many bewildering accounts of shell-like objects with no visible means of propulsion, no signs of any kinds of technology. Contactee Reinhold Schmidtโs German-speaking ufonauts, who invited him aboard their saucer in Nebraska in 1957, didnโt walk but glided across the floor of their spaceship as if they were on roller skates. Other sober and baffled witnesses have described how the UFO occupants seemed to fly from the ground to their waiting saucers. Still others have claimed that the ufonauts simply walked through the sides of their craft like ghosts. In story after story we have testimonial proof that the objects and their occupants are not made of normal substances. The hard (seemingly solid) objects are another problem. Bullets have been fired at them and have ricocheted off. They sometimes leave imprints on the ground where they land. If they are the product of a superior intelligence with an advanced technology, they seem to be suffering from faulty workmanship. (Maybe Keel would differentiate between "soft" objects and beings allegedly manipulated into existence by the phenomenon, and hard, physical objects and beings allegedly recovered, captured, and sometimes killed, at crash sites? Maybe there are multiple intelligences at work here? One that is physical and one that is not physical but can mimic the one (or other ones) that IS physical? ๐ตโ๐ซ) More from OTH... Since 1896 there have been hundreds of reports in which lone witnesses have stumbled onto grounded hard objects being repaired by their pilots. In flight, they have an astounding habit of losing pieces of metal. They seem to be ill-made, always falling apart, frequently exploding in midair. There are so many of these incidents that we must wonder if they arenโt really deliberate. Maybe they are meant to foster the belief that the objects are real and mechanical. In the foregoing I have tried to demonstrate how the soft objects seem to be directly related to the electromagnetic spectrum. This is hardly a new theory. Not only have the occultists, spiritualists, and religionists been telling us about frequencies, vibrations, and the color spectrum for centuries, but modern researchers such as Dr. Meade Layne worked all of this out years ago. Dr. Layne evolved a theory of mat' and 'demat; (materialization and dematerialization) of extradimensional objects. His findings were privately published and not very widely circulated. Others, such as British ufologist Harold T. Wilkins, also worked this out and published books about it in the early 1950s. But the spectrum theory lacks the strong emotional appeal of the extraterrestrial thesis. There is a rather curious entry in Project Blue Book Report No. 14 (1955) on page 295. In the section showing how various sightings are classified, "number 8 in Code 79-80 Final Identification is "Electromagnetic Phenomenon." This is crossed out (the report was reproduced by photo offset), and the now well-known classification of "Unknown" was substituted." ~~~End OTH Excerpt~~~ (If, as Grusch says, there were situations where Reptilians injured and killed humans, and humans defended themselves by killing Reptilians, that throws another major wrinkle into this. If it walks, talks and growls like a Reptilian...) Rogan: "And when this Reptilian craft crashed, the assumption was that it was some sort of conflict?" Grusch: "Correct." Rogan: "Because I would imagine that theyโre the ones youโd have to worry about." Grusch: "Correct, because there was dead...uh, dead Grays there, too. So, yeah." Rogan: Oh. So the Grays and the Reptilians were duking it out?" Grusch: "Yeah." Rogan: "Noo." Grusch: "I guess! I guess! You know. You know, I know the people who were there, and..." Rogan: "This sounds fucking insane, David (laughs)." Grusch: "It sounds fucking crazy. And once again, I donโt want to get into too many specifics, because this is a very unique...thereโs a couple unique retrievals out there that, to protect the innocent, and people that have risked their f*cking lives. Because a lot of the people that came to me with that kind of information, I mean, they were physically threatened like me and all that. And so, like, me going public was taking it for the team because I was able to create this umbrella of tacit, you know, protection in case somebody got f*cked with. Now, unfortunately, you know, my friend Matt (Sullivan), who knows what happened to him, but, you know, tragically he died, you know, mysteriously, so..." ~ "When people like Matthew Sullivan die in the way he did, unexpectedly, just before he was going to testify, I think that reaches the threshold that you say, 'Yeah, somebody should look at this.'" ~Christopher K. Mellon (And elsewhere in this Rogan interview, Grusch says Sullivan was part of the Legacy UAP program.) ~ Rogan: "Now, these Reptilians, what was their craft like?" Grusch: "Oh, like I said..." Rogan: "The Tic Tac." Grusch: "The Tic Tac stuff." Rogan: "And was their craft crashed into the ground, like broken up?" Grusch: "Yeah, yeah." Rogan: "Okay." Grusch: "It was like wedged into a hill." Rogan: "Like, had it been hit with something?" Grusch: "Um, I donโt remember exactly what happened in that regard, but it did crash, so. And I donโt want to misspeak on what exactly happened, so." (I'm going to go through the Grusch clips I shared in a future YT video.)](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2106817044981367295/amplify_video_thumb/2106816629791469568/img/YJFZwqyEKISu5y2Y.jpg)
!["There was a willingness to communicate. [The non-human entity] wanted to establish communication with us." ~JV ๐ฅ Has AI Figured Out the Identify of Gilbert? ๐ ๐ฝ Did an Alien Volunteer to be Studied and Communicate with Humans in a Secret USG Facility? Is it Still There? ๐ฝ "My understanding is that there were teams there that had been working with that being and perhaps other beings for a while." ~JV This is Pt. 1 - Pt. 2 has the AI sleuthing on the possible identity of Gilbert. Excellent job by Ross Coulthart. And if you wanna see my post on Gilbert, the alleged Alien Entity, Vallรฉe...and ALL Gilbert-related entries in FS V7 โฌ๏ธโฌ๏ธโฌ๏ธ I'm taking with this with a major grain of salt until we hear from Gilbert. Then, I'll revaluate.) ~ Ross Coulthart: "You write in your Forbidden Science (7) diaries, in October 2021 for the first time, you mention someone called Gilbert. It's a pseudonym, but essentially, it's a long-lost friend, a discreet master remote viewer at the level of Uri Geller and Ingo Swann." Jacques Vallรฉe: "Yes." (If your response to hearing Geller's name mentioned is, "Oh, he's been proven to be a fraud. See Johnny Carson,' then you haven't done your homework on Uri. Drs. Kit Green and Hal Puthoff on Geller. ~ Kit Green: "Anybody who has studied Geller and seen what he does and the films of what he does recognizes that there are profound differences between what Geller does and magician's tricks. Thereโs not even a remotely qualified individual whoโs ever investigated Geller who believes this orthodoxy โ that itโs all trickery. The RV [remote-viewing] experiments for me were astonishing. He was a superb remote viewer, he was a superstar." ~ Coulthart: "And Gilbert tells you that, through official channels, presumably, government channels, he was taken to participate in a controlled, personal exchange with a, supposed, alien. And you acknowledge in your diary that these revelations are explosive. "And by September 2023, you've received five closely-typed pages detailing how Gilbert says he was taken to a U.S. laboratory, sheltered inside rock, where military guides exposed him to what they explicitly told him was a living alien entity. Now, do you believe Gilbert's account, Jacques? I know at one stage you query: was this a fully veridical (truthful) account? Do you think Gilbert was telling you the truth?" Jacques Vallรฉe: "I have....I believe it for two reasons. You know, believe is a bad word. It's a religious word, it's a commitment, and so on. And everybody is free to believe whatever we want to believe. In science, you know, belief is a contingency. You face a phenomenon. You build a theory of a phenomenon, but the theory, there is no such thing as a theory without a way of testing it. "Now I have no way of testing what Gilbert has told me. I'm not going to reveal the rest of his data because that's his data, and I know there are plans to publish it in the proper way, so that everybody has access to it. I have the data, but it's not up to me to publish it. "There have been other cases, and I've had one personal occasion of coming face-to-face with an entity that is very similar to the entity that he describes. To my shame, I was so scared because this was unprepared. I was not intending to do that." Coulthart: "Are you saying that you had your own personal encounter with an entity? Vallรฉe: "Yes." Coulthart: "When did that happen?" Vallรฉe: "I had no communication with that entity because I was simply too scared, and I mention it in the book." ~Begin excerpt from FS V6~ Hummingbird. Saturday 27 October 2018. ...something brief and terrifying happened last night, far more tangible than a nightmare. As I review it, I have to accept an experience outside my body. All I know is that in the middle of the night I found myself propelled away into the kitchen, a tall being between me and the window. I couldnโt see a face, but it was tall like me, human-like, solid. A few seconds later I woke up suddenly, back into my lying body, panting and whimpering, terrified. It had been absolutely, shockingly real. No transition, none of that slow lifting of the soul people describe. I had been translated from the bedroom, standing up, totally aware, next to the entity that hovered near me without touching, yet encompassing me in a formidable presence. This is as close to a full out-of-body experience as I have ever had. It left me whimpering and scared. (Not a fan of JV mentioning this dream-like/out-of-body experience in the same breath as Gilbert's, alleged face-to-face, physical encounter with a living entity.) ~End Excerpt from FS V6 - Back to JV with Coulthart~ Vallรฉe: "Now in [Gilbert's] case this was very structured. He was asked to be there. And, by the way, it's not classified. I asked him if it was classified, he said, 'No.' And this was 20 years ago, this is not recent." Coulthart: "So, let's go through some of the detail of what you do reveal in [FS 7]. In December 2024, you write that you've seen Gilbert's structured results, and he says he was, apparently, instructed to put specific questions directly to the entity. And it gets fascinating. "Some of the questions generated impressions and responses he couldn't decipher. And what you conclude is that there may be two different levels of NHI, non-human intelligence. Your interpretation, or your friend's interpretation of what he got from the being, is that the higher-level controllers are genuinely alien, whereas the small beings - perhaps the Grays associated with UFO encounters - may be primitive biological hybrids, specifically engineered for terrestrial operation. Is that your conclusion, Jacques?" Vallรฉe: "Well, again, I'm an information scientist. I try to look for patterns of things, so I don't look at one case, you know, separate from others. I look for patterns of cases. In Trinity, in Socorro, in Valensole, and now in the case in Brazil that was revealed recently. "We have a dozen entities. These entities were small; they were the size of, you know, a 10-year-old or 12-year-old kid. They had two eyes and a mouth. They were breathing air. They did not look like our astronauts with, you know, all kinds of suits and [a] support system. They were breathing air. You could understand the, you know, any sense from their eyes. Overall, their structure was human." "Over the years, there have been efforts to theorize in biology about what it would take to create a different kind of human adapted to certain things. We are going to face that problem in space. NASA has looked at that. But before NASA, you know, certainly in World War II, that question was raised already. "And there are...and I mentioned a case from an American biologist who came back from Russia with at least a rumor that the Russians were developing short humanoids for future space missions, because that would save, you know... The most expensive part in the space missions we have now, like the Moon, is the human pilot, okay? If we could do away with the human pilot, or if we could minimize that pilot, then the technology would be safer and would probably function better. "So that question had been discussed in biology. Now, the threshold was, you know, a moral threshold. Are we permitted to create? I mean, we are clearly at the position where, as you know, that the question arose in China recently. You know, was there an experiment to manipulate an egg and create them? So, those are very current questions in biology. "Could some of the beings be just operators? Because in Brazil, especially, they did not seem to be in control at all. And the same thing in Trinity. Trinity is a very important case." (Speculatively speaking: If Gilbert actually came face-to-face with a non-human entity, how would we know if it was one of the actual alien "controllers (as JV suggests)" and not a different type of lower-level, artificial-intelligence-fused being designed to trick us into thinking we've actually met the controllers? Is there any way of knowing? Maybe Gilbert can shed light on that? Maybe what he encountered was just another type of being engineered and created by the controllers for terrestrial operation in order to keep their distance from us, or for some other reason? Or, maybe JV is correct and that was one of the actual alien controllers?) ~ Coulthart: "Can I just pull you back for a moment, though, to Gilbert's story, Jacques? Because I think it's incredibly important. What it's unique for, is it's actually somebody you have spoken to, directly, giving a first-person physical account of an encounter with a non-human being in what sounds like a U.S. military government facility." (Is the entity still there now?) Coulthart: "And there's actually a moment in your diaries, 12th of March 2025, where you actually get from Gilbert, a physical description of what he saw. He was, apparently, brought in as a specialist. He didn't know whether there were other captured or, interestingly enough, volunteer beings. But he had a rough idea of approximately where he was being taken. "He couldn't see outside the vehicle, but he was inside a small mountain, some kind of, perhaps, deep underground military bunker. Inside was a large, well-lit laboratory staffed by men and women wearing uniforms without rank or unit identification. There was no medical procedures or drugs. "And then, Gilbert says to you, he was brought face-to-face with the alleged entity. And it wasn't a Gray. It was over six feet tall. It, apparently, emitted light from different parts of its body, may have been enclosed in some sort of wired suit, test article, or a containment apparatus." (Was the suit designed to protect the being from our environment or to protect the humans in that room from the being? And just to reiterate, I'll assume it was an alien being. My friend made these excellent points... "We don't know if the parts of its body emitting light were its body or some sort of harness or device it was wearing. And if it was some sort of harness/device what was its purpose and whose device was it? Was it life support? Alien shackles? Was it meant to help, or control? "Say for instance, a harness device that emits a frequency that prevents the being from doing something? Leaving? Disappearing? Communicating?") ~ Coulthart: "And it, apparently, communicated through combinations of light, and permitted questions concerning psychic functioning. And he had several hours of communication with this being. Now, you've made it clear you believe Gilbert's account, you accept Gilbert's account. This is extraordinary." Vallรฉe: "I've known him for a long time, and I know what else he's done, which is extraordinary. So..." Coulthart: "I mean, this is very important, Jacques. Is this person willing to give evidence to a congressional inquiry, if they're not subject to classified limitations, security oaths, or NDAs?" Vallรฉe: "I asked him that because, obviously, I did not want to get into something that would take me, you know, beyond that range. And he said, 'No,' he was not... He asked, 'You know, do I need a special clearance for this?' He has done other work, you know, for the military." Coulthart: "Right. But I was analyzing the implications of what you say in the diary about Gilbert. And to summarize it, it's more than a psychic once met an alien. What it is, is, a classified U.S. group allegedly possesses, or hosts, a living, non-human intelligent being, and they've been operating a systematic, multidisciplinary communication program with it, over time. And Gilbert was brought in as one specialist to conduct controlled communications with it. Do you accept that that's the implication of what you say in the diary?" Vallรฉe: "This is logical in terms of what we know from a long time. What the procedure would be. The structure was...did not go into psychic functioning, you know? The questions that they had been asked were basic physiological, physical questions. They brought [Gilbert] in so that he was authorized to create his own questions and to probe...to see to what extent he could elicit a response that would be a psychic response from that entity. "The question is: At what level do they function? We know we have some ability to function on a psychic level. Some people can practice this better than others. We know from the SRI work by Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ and others that this can be trained. As you know, I was involved in that project to some extent over several years, and with Ingo. So, I went through the procedure with Ingo for an entire year. What Gilbert is describing matches that very well. In other words, there was a procedure." Coulthart: "So, you allude, Jacques, to the fact that Gilbert is, apparently, writing his own book about what he encountered. Can you clarify for me, though, is Gilbert willing to give evidence to the ongoing congressional investigations into this?" (Good on Ross to follow-up because JV didn't answer it the first time.) Coulthart: "There are very few people who are willing to give first-person evidence. And if he's not restrained by classification-security-oaths constraints, what's stopping him from coming forward, even confidentially, to a secure SCIF in the Congress, and giving this evidence?" Vallรฉe: "I cannot answer for him. He has a long career in helping, you know, different projects in a classified setting. So, he's quite capable of answering that. What I know is...I don't know that he is writing a book. There is a project for a series of interviews, and I've participated in that. I've given a few interviews about my own work. But I know he's been part of that project. I don't know how it's going to be released or whether it's going to be released. I'm not part of the business that owns that data." (Well, whatever that is, it really needs to be released. Interviews in written form, or on camera?) Coulthart: "I'm very excited by the Gilbert character, and forgive me for harping on about him. Can I at least clarify, Gilbert is a he." (I'm just as excited. This COULD be HUGE!) Vallรฉe: "I don't want to give away any indication. You know, I have not had communication, recently. I don't know how far that project has gone. It's their project, and there is a boundary to what I can say." Coulthart: "But who are they, Jacques? Like, when you say it's their project, you're talking about the individual known as Gilbert by pseudonym?" Vallรฉe: "And the release of that information. His intent is to release it." Coulthart: "I've got to ask you this, and I appreciate you may not want to disclose, but is the person that you're talking about Keith Harary?" Vallรฉe: "Umm, no. I can definitely tell you it's not Keith." (Later in this interview, JV said he met Gilbert when he (Gilbert) was 22. Out of the public names associated with gifted psychics and remote viewers, Harary comes close. But there's another possibility that I'll let ChatGPT lay out in the 2nd tweet. If you've studied remote viewing, you know the name Keith Harary. If you'd like to read an excellent article written by Keith "Blue" Harary in Psychology Today, here ya go: dot com/us/articles/200411/confessions-of-a-star-psychic ~ Coulthart: "Is it Joe McMoneagle?" Vallรฉe: "[laughs] I shouldn't play... It's an interesting game, but, you know, there are two or three other names." Coulthart: "Joseph McMoneagle, of course, Jacques, as you and I both know, he worked with you at SRI. He was remote viewer number one in the U.S. Army intelligence program." Vallรฉe: "I have enormous amount of respect for Mr. McMoneagle." Coulthart: "So do I. Joe is probably one of the most respected remote viewers known to the U.S. military (JV shakes his head up and down in agreement) and the U.S. intelligence community. And I noted back in Forbidden Science 3, Joe told you about UFO-related material. And Joe talked about how a photograph of a disc had inexplicably disappeared from a classified safe under his sole control. And he you quoted him saying to you, 'There must be a higher level of authority that controls UFO data.' What's going on here, Jacques?" Here's the excerpt from FS V3... "Joe [McMoneagle] once obtained a detailed photograph of a disk. He placed a copy in a locked safe with double combination, a classified safe under his sole control. Yet the photograph vanished. โ'There must be a higher level of authority that controls UFO data,' he said, 'a level beyond the folks who run the satellites.'" (The Gatekeepers?) ~ Coulthart: "Clearly, someone - if it's Joe McMoneagle, let's just call them Gilbert. Someone invited Gilbert to a secure facility, presumably, a secure-government facility, yet at the same time we have the government - in the form of AARO, the Pentagon - asserting, blue and blind, that there is absolutely no evidence of extraterrestrial-non-human-intelligence engagement with this planet. We know that's not true. What's going on, sir? You, probably more than anyone, know the answer to that question." Vallรฉe: "It's a central question, of course, and I don't want to make, you know, to treat it in a humorous way. But I recall a conversation with Dr. Hynek when I was working with him back at Northwestern. And I said, 'You know, what does the Air Force say and what does the Air Force think?' And he said, 'Jacques, you have to understand, there is no such thing as the U.S. Air Force. There are projects within the Air Force that do different things.'" (Kind of like when people say, "The GOVERNMENT does this and that." Like the Air Force, the U.S. government is not a monolith. AARO may have had no clue about the Gilbert story, until JV put out V7. Maybe they still don't know?) Vallรฉe: "And that's legitimate. [The USAF] are looking at different parts of, you know, the whole planet, with the tools they have. And they have different opinions about things, and they have budgets to pursue different things with different projects. And many times they don't know about the other project." Coulthart: "Is it possible that Gilbert was being played?" Vallรฉe: "[shakes his head back and forth] No. No." Coulthart: "That he was shown something that was an intention to try and see what a master remote viewer would think of what he was being shown?" Vallรฉe: "He's one of the best psychics in the world today, and has been throughout his career." (It's impossible to know 100% that what Gilbert encountered (assuming this actually happened) was a non-human entity. And even if/when he comes forward, that won't change. We're going to need evidence besides anecdotes.) ~ Coulthart: "So you find him very credible." Vallรฉe: "I met him when he was 22." Coulthart: "What state was the location in, where this facility that he was taken to is located? Did he give you that indication?" Vallรฉe: "I don't know the level of if there is a security wrapper around this. I don't know at what level. So, I've purposely been vague in the book, again." Coulthart: "I got that. Was there a date for the encounter? I think you indicated to me earlier it was about 20 years ago. Is that right?" Vallรฉe: "Yes." Coulthart: "Have you seen any evidence proving that Gilbert was actually at that location? Has he provided you with any substantiating...or corroboration?" Vallรฉe: "No. No. No. And that's why I don't want to go beyond, you know, reporting about that conversation and my trust in the conversation. I have no way of checking this. My own experience would indicate that that kind of thing is happening. Probably (in many places)." (Crosstalk, so I'm not 100% sure on "in many places." And what "experience" is JV talking about?) Coulthart: "Can I ask you a few questions, though? And you don't have to answer these if you're uncomfortable. Did he physically touch the entity?" Vallรฉe: "No." Coulthart: "Was the entity a prisoner?" Vallรฉe: "No. I asked him that question, of course, and he said the entity was a volunteer." (We need all the details on how that happened. Via a crash retrieval? Did it knock on the door one day? Teleport into their lab? Amazon Prime delivery in a REALLY big box with holes in it? ๐ And why should we trust the entity? My friend added this: "A death-row prisoner agreeing to cooperate with authorities on something could be considered volunteeringโฆbut is still a prisoner. Did the being say itโs a volunteer or was it the people at the facility? Do we really have to wait around for a possible book we actually might never see?") ~ Coulthart: "You, intriguingly, talk about, in your diary, captured or volunteer beings. You're clear that this being was there voluntarily?" Vallรฉe: "Yes." Coulthart: "But it suggests that there are other beings that are captured." Vallรฉe: "I don't know. I'm not, you know, fudging here. I really don't know the answer." Coulthart: "Okay. Do you know from Gilbert how long the entity had been with this facility, with the humans?" Vallรฉe: "No, and I asked Gilbert that. He did not know that. He was there just for that one presentation and that was..." Coulthart: "Was the entity alive, in the sense that we think of something being biologically alive?" Vallรฉe: "Yes. Now, I have no doubt, as you know, I'm not an expert about Hollywood, but I've, occasionally, seen what Hollywood could do in terms of special effects. And, of course, everything can be a special effect." (Again, according to JV, Gilbert may have seen, "a test article, a wired uniform or a safety container for the being rather than the body of an actual Alien." So, Gilbert may not know what it actually looked like. Hard to be definitive on what this entity was and we'll need to hear from Gilbert for more details.) Coulthart: "Did Gilbert explain why he, a remote viewer, was required to communicate with the being, if, as you say in the diary, it was communicating with light?" Vallรฉe: "Yes, yes. Because the people in charge were smart enough to understand that the communication that that being was capable of was beyond the... I mean, we have the same thing with whales, you know? Whales can read the inside of your body. I mean, women who were attending to whales, the whale would know they were pregnant before they knew they were pregnant." (That hasn't been proven.) Vallรฉe: "So, those situations are, you know...we have aliens (he smiled and I believe he used quotation marks with his hands) here on Earth in the form of some very intelligent animals that perceive things completely outside our range. So, it's not a new situation." Coulthart: "No, but I think this is the revelation - I think, one of the most important revelations in your latest book - that we are talking here about someone who you accept as telling the truth, who says they were part of what sounds like a U.S. government, U.S. military program, where they were asked to communicate with a non-human being. Can I ask you this, sir? Did conventional spoken language fail, or was it not possible with this being?" Vallรฉe: "The answers were in the form of light configurations." Coulthart: "And so, had we learned, had humans learned how to communicate with it through light?" Vallรฉe: "From what he told me, there was limited knowledge of what was positive and negative. He was asked to only frame questions in a way that where the answer could be yes or no, And that's why there were situations where he said he couldn't understand the answer." (Yes or no questions? I'm gonna assume the entity had no thumbs. Thumbs up? ๐๐ฝ Thumbs down? ๐๐ผ ๐) Coulthart: "One of the things you say in your diary - and I've learned to read Jacques Vallee's diaries very, very closely indeed - you say Gilbert's answers matched earlier results. Earlier results from whom, Jacques? I really think this is a very important question. What are you talking about there?" Vallรฉe: "Well, the...you know, my understanding is that there were teams there that had been working with that being and perhaps other beings for a while. I mean, this isn't just a one-off situation. They had a base. Again, I said, 'What were the insignias?' He said, 'They were probably people from different branches of the armed forces there. You know, the people there were experts, men and women, you know, who seemed to be coming and going.' There may have been other labs. You know, he was in one lab." Coulthart: "Is it your understanding that this communication with this being is communicating today? Is it still happening?" Vallรฉe: "I have no way of knowing." Coulthart: "So it was happening 20 years ago, but we don't know if that program is still operating today." Vallรฉe: "What was important to me, again, in terms of what we can derive from the database and from other, you know, all the other contact cases, is that the communication was primarily light, in the form of light."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2104287905443434740/amplify_video_thumb/2104285861336739840/img/AgvdmqeGRC_Dzu5K.jpg)
![๐ฅ LAP Alert ๐ฅ "I did this sort of spy thing where I changed hotel rooms and I changed taxis. I was making sure I wasnโt followed." ~Knapp Is Lacatski Lying to Us About the Craft and Breaching the Hull? ~ "If not for that [2017 NYT] story about AATIP and the problems that [Lacatski] saw with it, he would never have mentioned [AAWSAP]...I don't think, ever." ~Knapp (So, in other words...thank you from the UFO community, to the NYT, for getting it wrong? ๐) ~ Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell: "Should we listen to Dr. James Lacatski on UFOs, on the fact, or the idea, that our government has at least one, he's admitted, and we breached the hull? Should we listen to him, George?" George Knapp: "I know a lot of people have noticed that he's talked about his role in counterintelligence as part of the AAWSAP program. And because they equate counterintelligence with lies, false info., cover stories, misdirection. Aha! He's putting out a bunch of false info. a decade after he retired from government service." (I saw one person suggest that, and I thought it was a questionable take...) Grant Lavac: "Given that Dr. James Lacatski was the 'counterintelligence coordinator' for AAWSAP, how much confidence can we invest in the veracity of his public statements that 'at least one recovered craft of unknown origin, a flying machine with no wings, no engine, no fuel, and no fuel tanks' is in the possession of the US government and that they had 'breached the hull' of the UFO? In the context of the counterintelligence value of UAP/UFO, his comments in this most recent interview on WEAPONIZED (edited for brevity) only raise more questions for me." ~~~ Knapp: "A, it's not [Lacatski]. He's not out there beating the bushes. He's talked to us, but that's pretty much it. He's telling the full story as much as he can in a series of books. And I was co-author on two of those, not on this one. And, you know, I remember the first time I met him, it was in 2018." ~ (In April of 2019, Knapp shared that story, minus Lacatski's name, at UFO MegaCon. Knapp in 2019: "I thought today I would share with you, sort of the informational foundation that Iโve acquired. So, one year ago, I made this trip to Washington, D.C. at the invitation of Senator Harry Reid. It was St. Patrickโs Day, 2018 and I already knew a little bit about AATIP and AAWSAP and what theyโve been studying and where the money came from and how the program was created. I did this sort of spy thing where I changed hotel rooms and I changed taxis. I was making sure I wasnโt followed. And if there was ever actually, anybody following me, they must have thought I looked ridiculous because it was way over the top. "But I ended up having to meet with Senator Reid and some other people who were directly involved in these programs and they gave me a download. And I thought I knew a lot about these programs when I went there and realized that I only knew a little tiny bit. The purpose of this was to learn about these programs. We all know about AATIP, but in reality, there was something before that. "I sat down for a couple of hours with Senator Reid and other people whose names, they donโt want to be known. They brought me up to speed on how AATIP was created. How its predecessor was under way for a number of years. It coexisted for a long time. People in this room. People who investigate this topic may have suspected for a long time that there was some kind of a program that still existed. Weโve all heard that Project Bluebook was the end. 1969 it ended and the government was done with UFOs. They closed up shop. And the reason they closed it down is because there was no evidence that it involved national security. "And we all knew that was baloney because of the stories that weโve seen that are really well documented. For example, UFOs over nuclear missile bases. UFO encounters with the military installations and atomic facilities. Things of that sort the have been well documented over the years. There are cases that involved national security. So at the end of Blue Book, of course, this memo said, alright, any cases involving national security will continue to be investigated in the regular way. Well, what the heck was the regular way? We didnโt know. Well now we do know. At least a little bit of it." (Project Blue Book was shut down in December of 1969, but a few months earlier, in October, we had the Bolender memo, which noted that "reports of UFOs which could affect national security should continue to be handled through the standard Air Force procedure designed for this purpose." What standard Air Force procedure? The regular way? Where did those cases go? We still don't know what Bolender was referring to in that memo.) ~ Knapp in 2019: "And one of the regular ways was this program called AATIP. So I went on this trip. [and] I learned this stuff about AATIP. I had known a lot about it before but I got this briefing about this alphabet soup of different programs, how they began and what they studied. December 2017, the New York Times breaks this story about AATIP. Now, I had known about it for a long time because I lived in Las Vegas. I knew Bob Bigelow. I knew Harry Reid. Weโd talk about UFO stuff and what was going on. "So when I was told the New York Times was gonna break the story, Iโm kind ticked off about it. Because hey, Iโve been sitting on this for a long time. Why donโt I get to break the story? And they had to, one after another, gently remind me, 'You know. Youโre not the New York Times.' Which I had to admit! It was true. And if I had done the story, the Times had said that they werenโt going to do it if somebody else breaks it. So, if I had done it, itโd be another story from a UFO reporter. "The New York Times did it and they changed everything. Because they did it, wider organizations did it. Some of them took shots at the New York Times because The Times got the story and they didnโt. But that story was accurate, to a degree. But the story that it told was not the full story. AATIP, that we know aboutโฆthe AATIP that studies nuts and bolts saucersโฆcase of UFOs that have encounters with military units such as the USS Nimitz, that is studied by a group of people, Lue Elizondo was the head of it. "Itโs not so much a program as it was a loose network of intelligence officials in different agencies, including the Air Force and the Navy, CIA, DIA, DARPAโฆthere might be a couple of other agencies. But a case would come in from any one of their units [and] it would be shared with this group of people, analysis would be done, evidence would be looked at and then stashed in a draw and nobody ever sees it. Itโs not passed up the chain of command. "In 2007, that changed. One of the guys (Lacatski. ~Joe 2025) I met with in this meeting in Washington is the one who changed it. He had been in the same position that Lue Elizondo had been in. And his name is just not out there. He grew frustrated with what was happening with the phenomenon and he suspected that UFOs flying around the sky, buzzing our military units every once in a while, is not the full story. Even if you could solve that part of the mystery it wouldnโt solve the bigger part of the picture. "So he grew interested in Skinwalker Ranch and he had read the (Knapp/Kelleher โ 'Hunt For The Skinwalker') book. And after he read it, he called up Bob Bigelow and saidโฆactually, he wrote him a letter and said, 'Hey, can I go to the ranchโฆgo look around? Iโm with the DIA.' Bigelow says, 'Come on out to Las Vegas and Iโll take you there.' And thatโs what happened. He flew to Las Vegas. They flew on Bigelowโs jet. They went to the ranch. "This guyโs not there fifteen minutes and he has an experience. And Iโm not gonna go into detail. Iโm hoping that heโs going to maybe come forward at some point and describe his experience. But it was just for him. Of all the people in this room, in the encounter, he was the only one who could see it. Heโs the only one who had an angle on this thing that appeared. And heโs pretending that heโs not seeing it but itโs right out of the corner of his eye. And he doesnโt say anything until he leaves the ranch. And he gets off and he asks Bigelow if he had seen it. And he had not. The other people who had been in the room had not seen it. "He flies back to Las Vegas, goes back to Washington, D.C. and looks up Harry Reid and tells him about it. Now Reid had some experience in these matters that Iโll get into in a little bit. But as a result of that conversation, Reid, who had an interest in UFOs and had maintained that interest over many years โ and I can attest to that personally โ called in a couple of his friends in the Senate โ Daniel Inouye and Ted Stevens. They had a conversation in a secure room and they decided to provide some funding for a much broader study. Something that looked atโฆbeyond flying saucers, that looked at other paranormal aspectsโฆsupernatural aspects that we would not normally associate with aliens or ETs. Assuming that thatโs what this is, which Iโm not sure anyone knows for sure. And that is how AAWSAP was born. The Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program." ~~~ Knapp Yesterday: "The only reason [Lacatski] came forward, he was ticked off about how AATIP had been described in major media reports, and no mention had been given to the actual, real program. That one that had a $22 million budget, lasted 27 months, and which put together the biggest UFO data warehouse in history, that had written all these papers that still have not been released." (In the most-recent interview (Part 1) with Weaponized, Lacatski let it fly with his issues related to the 2017 NYT article: "The initial reporting...by the New York Times story in 2017 was totally inaccurate. Contrary to what some people claim, the authors knew my name and position at AAWSAP, yet never attempted to contact me. Likewise, the The Washington Post. POLITICO (laughs) contacted me within hours after the articles were published in the free publications, asking for my opinion. They knew my name, they had my phone number. Why didn't they contact me [beforehand]?" ~Dr. James Lacatski on Weaponized ~ Knapp: "So, Jim was a counterintelligence guy for AAWSAP, but in this role. He wasn't putting out cover stories or lies, he didn't put out anything. The world didn't hear that AAWSAP existed until years later, at least by that name. There was one statement made to the press about that program. It was by Robert Bigelow, whose company, BAASS, got the contract. A week after he signed it, he came on with me on Coast to Coast AM and said, 'We got this program dealing with UFOs, we have an unnamed partner, and we're excited to get going.' That was it. "Jim Lacatski wasn't putting out PR releases about AAWSAP. There was nothing. That was the last thing anybody said until the New York Times did the AATIP story, and then Jim Lacatski felt the real story was being covered up. If not for that story about AATIP and the problems that he saw with it, he would never have mentioned this. I don't think ever." (Well, then, thank you to the NYT journalists and editors for pissing off Lacatski!) Knapp: "You'll recall, AAWSAP, at the time that things went downhill, that the funding was moved away, they were trying to make it into a SAP, a Special Access Program. And if it had happened, we probably would never have heard of it. If it had happened, Lue Elizondo would have been the counterintelligence guy for AAWSAP, that he had already talked to Lacatski. "But Lacatski is not proclaiming the greatness of the program. He's not out there beating the bushes on podcasts and newscasts, other than with us, and he never put out in counterintelligence. His role, counterintelligence, meant something different for AAWSAP. The thing that DIA had told him was, 'Look, you know, it's not a rogue program. I know it gets weird into some of the phenomena that was at Skinwalker Ranch and other places. We don't care. Here's what we care about: Don't let the secret out. We don't want to see this on the front page of the Washington Post. We want it kept secret.' (John Greenewald was one person questioning whether AAWSAP was actually a prosaic program and Lacatski just decided to go rogue with a foray into UFOs and the paranormal.) Greenewald Tweet: "Did the U.S. government really sanction this, and if so, is this really how it was run? Or was this a rogue operation by a select few on the inside playing with Uncle Sam's coffers?" (Greenewald was quote tweeting a Greenstreet hit-piece video on AAWSAP. In his interview on Weaponized aired over the past few weeks, Lacatski said that former Deputy Director of AARO, Tim Phillips, also used the "rogue" word when describing AAWSAP. Did DIA really not know what AAWSAP was about? Did Lacatski go rogue and turn a program that was supposed to look at prosaic, advanced technology into one that studied UFOs and the paranormal? Here's an exchange from the 2023 interview Knapp and Corbell did with Lacatski and Colm Kelleher.) Kelleher: "The critical part of AAWSAP that we tried to convey in 'Skinwalkers at the Pentagon,' was that there were two fundamental, parallel tracks that AAWSAP ran on. The first one was the examination of UFO performance. And, you know, the UFO performance part was getting all of the data from eyewitnesses, plus deploying sensors into the field, in order to gather data on the performance of UFOs. That was track number one. And track number two was: What effects do UFOs have on humans? That was a parallel track that, from the get go, AAWSAP decided, unambiguously, to run both tracks in parallel. We documented psychological effects, and then we also documented paranormal effects." Lacatski: "Anything can be said on the internet it seems, factual or not. Well, one thing that is not factual is, DIA knew what it was getting into in regard to both aspects that Colm just described to you. And let me end my statement right here. We had no choice but to pursue both aspects." (That was a poor way of him saying: The claim that DIA was unaware of AAWSAP looking into all aspects of UFOs, including the paranormal, is NOT true.) Lacatski: "I want to emphasize something I said on my first and only interview. It was a closed program. It operated very similar to a SAP. The director, the director of analysis, and my office chief...and, of course, division chief, knew about this program. No one else did. Now, I was also protected by the stovepipe nature of that. I did not have to address political-type questions. I was insulated, but they were, too. There was no one else. People in the surrounding cubicles didn't know. Nothing was purposely being hid. It was a closed, stovepipe system, and it needed to be. It needed to be operated that way." ~~~ Knapp: "And so, Jim Lacatski took it on himself, put it in his own hands. He and Colm Kelleher interviewed all these people who applied for the jobs, the 50 full-time positions that they staffed, in a matter of months. They did background checks, they required security clearances for all those people, and they were worried about leaks. They didn't want information to get out. "They also were concerned about espionage by foreign players, by foreign companies, things of that sort. And some of that really did happen. As Jim has shared with us, there were a couple of phones that were transmitters that were found inside Bigelow Aerospace, inside the Bigelow, uh, facilities, and it was very alarming because they weren't sure who was doing it. I think they think it was a foreign government. I'm not going to say which one, uh, they suspected the most." (Lacatski said that the phones in question were made in China.) Knapp: "But, and then they also found weird frequencies emanating from Skinwalker Ranch. That's not strange, and there's a lot of unusual stuff that happens there, but it was some sort of a an espionage program that they believed was was not only looking at the ranch, but also at BAASS. "That was his primary concern. He was worried that the story gets out, because secrecy was of paramount interest to the heads of DIA and he's worried about the information getting out to the public. Because once it happened, then the knives come out in the Pentagon and within the intelligence community, which is kind of what happened. A memo was sent from Harry Reid's office, let other people know that AAWSAP existed, and that's when things started getting problematic." Corbell: "The bugging thing. So, it's not just like Bigelow Aerospace was tapped with something, he said, specifically, AAWSAP, right? So they were looking at that new UFO program. And I don't know how public this is, but he did say it was - not just him, other people have all said - it was multiple nations, multiple, different devices from those phones. And he also said that they worked with FBI, they had FBI liaisons looking at the ranch property, and also at Bigelow Aerospace. "Because, remember, they were supposed to receive a transfer of materials. That's why they reverse, reverse engineered (laughs), you know, they built everything to be able to hold SCIF-capable and material-capable property at that classification level. So, look, I think if we pull it back, the whole idea is, James Lacatski made a statement at some point that he was, you know, head of, or part of, or running the counterintelligence for AAWSAP. But his point was to keep AAWSAP itself secret from foreign nations. So then he has to keep it secret from the U.S. He did it. He did a great job. They actually kept it secret. That doesn't mean he's going out and creating false information to the public like he's been accused of. "So, should we listen to Jim Lacatski? That was like, you know, the main question. Oh, one second. He also identified that there is currently a counter-programming, counterintelligence operation going on to the American public, but not against the American public, by AARO." (In other words, spread misinformation to the American public so they can advance their goal of misinforming and confusing our adversaries who are always listening. National security! IMO, that's only acceptable if we're talking specifics related to propulsion, technology and weapons that can be used to give us a leg up on said adversaries. But everything else should come out and be made public. We shouldn't be told a bunch of lies about information we paid for and that could, potentially, give us some clarity about our species and other lifeforms on this planet.) Corbell: That was so clear in our interview with him that he said that, you know, 'Look, they're acting this way. They are telling you lies about AAWSAP and what happened.' And that's why he said, 'My books, I'm a government employee. This was paid by taxpayers. I'm trying to give you information.' And that's what his books are. "So it's clear from these rounds of interviews that we just had with Dr. Lacatski that he supports a controlled UFO disclosure. He made that very clear. So should we listen to what he has to say? I mean, he was a big dog, right, George?" Knapp: "He was the head of the largest U.S. government-funded UFO investigation in history, that we know of. He worked with Colm Kelleher, who was the boots-on-the-ground guy in Las Vegas. He worked with Jay Stratton. Stratton's role in the development of AAWSAP has not been really fully explored, but he's got a book coming out at some point, once it gets through the DOPSR process. But then we'll get additional information to buttress what Lacatski has said."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-1991268528771748027/amplify_video_thumb/1990932248116539392/img/QA2EH0b-Bfna8TB4.jpg)
![We know that the incident that happened at present in Zambia has attracted a little attention, but particularly the use of a fraud gang leader, Hopewell Chinโono, and Emmanuel Mwamba. I think people have seen me in the past, in the last few years. Iโve confronted these two characters on matters that I was able to demonstrate were matters of fact, but there are also matters of accountability in a very big way. They were matters relating to money, movement of money across countries. How many people have seen my documentaries? How many have seen the Gatwick Airport hacking documentary that features a man called Hopewell Chinโono? In the last two years, I personally, physically recovered over a million British pounds in a property that had been robbed from a British man. Two years ago, in 2024, and the person who was singularly behind that scam is a man called Hopewell Chinโono. Brian Mundubile, the opposition leader, and Emmanuel Mwamba, the opposition spokesperson โ Iโm not sure what title he has in Zambia. If youโre watching right now in Zambia, please let me know which title he carries, because I know that there have been entities and institutions that have switched names, switched sides, or switched shape. So Iโm not aware what title Emmanuel Mwamba now has, but Emmanuel Mwamba and Brian Mundubile, as the opposition leader, have been using this man who will lead a fraud gang, and is [a] fraudster, I would be [saying]. So Iโm going to say it in Zimbabwean English, okay? Accent, Zimbabwean and Zambian, for I would beโฆ [Speaking in a local language.] And on Hopewell Chinโonoโฆ [Speaking in a local language.] A million-pound property from him and his friend and his colleague, called Jennifer Bangurรฉ, in East Midlands. I think people have seen him sometimes posting a picture of him dressed in very, very buttoned trousers, boasting that heโs got a house in East Midlands. Right there in East Midlands, two years ago, I had a copy of [the] property, but he himself and the colleague of him had taken off, unlawfully taken away from a British man. And so Hopewell Chinโono has been used by Mundubile and Mwamba with the two knowing well that he is a fraud gang leader. Some people have been claiming, โOh, Brian Mundubile,โ and the likes of him that this man is a journalist. This person is a fraud gang leader, just using the face in the front of journalism. There is no person who is law-abiding who uses Hopewell Chinโono for anything. But what was happening was that Brian Mundubile and Emmanuel Mwamba were using this shady character for their communications, which were not factual at all. I mean, people were following over the time, every post that this man has been posting โ this character that Brian Mundubile has been using to make communications. In every single post, thereโs always been some falsification, some misleading. This is not a character that anyone would want to sit having tea with, because heโs well known for more than 30 years for being dodgy, shady and engaging in some of the most horrible [activities]. Iโve done thorough investigations over the years. Iโve done more investigations on this man than Iโve done on all my other documentaries and stories over the years. And so, what were they discussing? What were they doing? But mainly, โ what have they been posting around the elections, not just today? Over several years, by the way: this whole operation didnโt start today. Even during the Edgar Lungu death days last year, I think people remember โ how many people remember? Thereโs a dossier that I presented to South Africa, to the courts, where I was arguing, and I was even taking the SABC, the South Africa Broadcasting Corporation, to court. Very soon I will, for them using this type โ this character. And this is a big, big scam. Itโs not a small scam. So, what has happened right now, thereโs another operation that law enforcement have done in [Zambia]. Iโm not going to talk about that because itโll be sub judice, and Iโm not aware of the full circumstances of what that is. But I am aware. Iโm fully aware. I think people saw me a few years ago. I was in Lusaka physically, and I was on live camera. Iโm fully aware that Brian Mundubile and his crop were cooking some activity. Thatโs how I was there. I saw it physically. They were doing something there that I canโt say right now because it would be sub judice. People understand what the law says. I am aware of certain things that were happening around that time that were not clean. And thatโs how suddenly I was in Lusaka around the same period in August 2023, which was the first time Iโd been to Lusaka before, a few years before. My work โ I investigate, I investigate, I investigate matters relating toโฆ Excuse me, sorry, I apologise. Iโm just getting distracted. Just two seconds here. Those are coming right now live. I am just two seconds, just two seconds, folks. I think itโs me, love. Yes, itโs me. Walter. Yes. Okay, so just two seconds, folks. Okay, so what I was saying was that a few years ago, I was in Lusaka, Zambia. And the things that I witnessed there โ Iโm not going to talk about the rest and things that have happened today because itโs sub judice. I canโt do that. And Iโm not aware of the full circumstances. But there are definitely things that I know, and people have seen over the years. When Edgar Lungu died, there was one character who Emmanuel Mwamba started using. Many of the people started using. And they were firing an algorithm. And if you are in law enforcement here in Zambia, and if you are in law enforcement in any other country, I hope you can hear this tidbit that Iโm dropping here. I investigate wrongdoing by notorious people, particularly people who target crowds. And so this person that Brian Mundubile has been using has been fronting the face and the badge of journalism. But, in actual fact, he leads a fraud gang โ a whole gang of people, some who were fully convicted and served prison sentences. This is all public record, by the way. So itโs not what Iโm saying here, so people listening โ itโs not something from a special investigation that I guess, of course, there are things that Iโve done, that Iโve done. But this is public record. There is no person who is law-abiding. Thereโs no person who follows the law who uses a man called Hopewell Chinโono for anything. For anything. [Speaking in Shona.] This is a record that is over 30 years old โ 30 years running, every year. Every year, this man called Hopewell Chinโono has a repeating incident, or for high-profile โ weโre talking high-profile crime here. And one of them involves a million-pound property that I personally reversed in a documentary called โGatwick Airport.โ โGatwick Airport.โ So if you Google โGatwick Airport,โ you see it. I mean, this is a whole broad, multi-million-pound property, massive property that I investigated and helped to reverse two years ago. And the records are all there. They are replete. Thereโs also an article that was published that is on the New Statesman website, that is titled โJournalism Rarely Generates Excessive Wealth.โ Well, this is not my work now. This is the work of the only investigative journalist of our time by the name Geoffrey Nyarota. Itโs a very interesting piece. He died in March last year. And Geoffrey Nyarota published this article, investigated this character called Hopewell Chinโono, and published this article. If you see it, it audits money that he used โ money that he took from the United Kingdom and then used it to buy property in Zimbabwe. This is an article that is over four years, five years, in fact, in the public domain. Five years in the public domain. And the man called Hopewell Chinโono even responded, so he passed comments on that article in the article. That article is on a publication that Iโve got nothing to do with. Itโs another major, major big independent newspaper that publishes in Zimbabwe. Itโs on the internet, so if you Google โJournalism Rarely Generates Excessive Wealth,โ thatโs an article that has been available that Brian Mundubile, the opposition leader of Zambia, knows. And Emmanuel Mwamba, his spokesperson, knows that article. For over five years, he knows that Hopewell Chinโono is not a practising journalist, that he is doing his practising disguise. He is a disguiser. How does a person who has won an election use a disguiser? How do you go on video and say, โI won this electionโ? Number one, you donโt show, you donโt present any tabulation. You say that youโve got a tabulation that youโre reading, but you donโt show people that tabulation. Show people so that they see that you truly have won. Okay, letโs just assume that you are avoiding this disclosure because maybe you donโt want to get into trouble. Certainly, people around you, if you have those millions of followers, certainly those people could just present the tabulation. Not WhatsApp screenshots. No. The tabulation. The tabulation and those forms. Show the tabulation and then you also show the forms, which are a public record. The forms become public record at the polling station. So you donโt even need to wait for the Electoral Commission Chairperson of Zambia to make the announcement. The announcement has already been made at the polling station. You donโt need to record a video and pronounce yourself a leader. Because if you have won the election, that pronouncement has already been made at the polling station. And so the youngest child, a Grade One child, can do their maths. During the first hour of those results being placarded at the polling stations, you donโt need to come out yourself. Because itโs already there. If you have won the election, itโs already there. Why did you do that? Why did you record this video? Whatโs the point? Whatโs the game? Whatโs the hurry? Because itโs already there. Itโs a public record. Itโs already there. Itโs in the forest, itโs there โ right at the polling station. So Brian Mundubile did not need to do that. Who was the point? Maybe other people have done it before. But what was the point? Iโm trying to ask here. I donโt know how I could say it in Bemba, in Nyanja. I donโt know which language, folks. If those people will see you speak the language in [unclear], in Zambia, please click the video link and talk to me. And maybe say it to people, ask questions: Mr Mundubile, what was the point when you announced yourself, pronouncing yourself, on video? And then you get someone who leads โ who practises disguise. Whoa, whatโs the point? Does not practise journalism? He practises disguise. Who doesnโt know that if thereโs a public record out there? So you used someone whoโs engaged in some of the most dodgy things on earth, including election vote-tempering that he has been doing in other jurisdictions. You used that character. For what purpose? For what purpose? Because you didnโt press a vote, Brian Mundubile knew that you did not need to go on video. Because if you won the election, you were already politically โ you would have already been proclaimed at the polling station. So any person who has got a small GCSE certificate can do their maths. They would have already known that they would have made the announcement for itself. Where is the regulation? So this is a big investigation because all watching on, as I said, I myself have recovered a million-pound property in the United Kingdom in the last two years, and the documentaryโฆ](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2089573258790121505/amplify_video_thumb/2089571916835160064/img/y3V7RsYdmIXswCnG.jpg)
