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Preston Rutherford

@PrestonRuther10 • 5,588 subscribers

Founder @Chubbies, @loop returns, marathon data, marathon engine

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CFO: what's with this ad? it has driven ZERO revenue. are you crazy? CMO: actually, it's one of our best performers CFO: in terms of WHAT? CMO: engagements, especially follows CFO: how does that relate to revenue? we're focused on profit. wasting money doesn't support this focus CMO: look at our results. revenue growth is re-accelerating, and our EBITDA margin is nearly doubling. something's working CFO: no way it's because of this ad CMO: i think it is—not just this ad, but the campaign. it's great for our brand and earning high-quality engagements like follows CFO: heartily disagree. our growth is due to COGS savings and new products CMO: true, but this has also contributed significantly. we've measured how these engagements lead to long-term growth in the types of high-margin purchase behaviors we want more of CFO: what are our "highest-margin purchase behaviors"? CMO: purchases from people who search for our brand name or enter our URL directly. brand is likely the primary purchase driver CFO: fair, but how is that different from ad clicks leading to purchases? CMO: it's different. while both are valuable, purchases from ad clicks often focus on product, price, or promotions, whereas branded searches indicate the brand brand is a bigger driver CFO: are you saying revenue from ad clicks is bad? CMO: not at all. but we've relied too much on purchases via paid clicks to drive growth—nearly all our growth came from them in the last two years CFO: really? hmm. but what's your point? CMO: as shown (shares the measurement data), revenue per session and lifetime value from ad clicks are lower than from branded organic searches CFO: where's this data? why haven't i seen it? CMO: i send it weekly in slack. CFO: (embarrassed) ummm, busted? CMO: all good—maybe now you'll open it. this campaign helps balance our approach, generating an emotional connection and reaching people we'd never hit with our conversion-optimized spend. it fills the funnel in a measurable, precise way. and yes, as an added benefit, it increases our direct response efficiency and effectiveness, but the under-appreciated and more important benefit is that it has measurably driven more of those high-margin purchase behaviors we want CFO: how do you know? CMO: we see how follower growth drives incremental revenue from organic search, direct sessions, and organic social referrals over the following six months. we can quantify revenue and ROAS just like our direct response campaigns CFO: why haven't i seen this data? CMO: it's in the same report i send you weekly CFO: (scans report for two minutes... awkward silence) this is awesome. keep doing what you're doing CMO: (surprised) excuse me? CFO: actually, spend more CMO: well, look at you—this is quite the surprise. appreciate the excitement, but i'm testing and scaling in a way that aligns with the process we follow CFO: let's speed up that process a bit, shall we? CMO: gladly

CFO: what's with this ad? it has driven ZERO revenue. are you crazy? CMO: actually, it's one of our best performers CFO: in terms of WHAT? CMO: engagements, especially follows CFO: how does that relate to revenue? we're focused on profit. wasting money doesn't support this focus CMO: look at our results. revenue growth is re-accelerating, and our EBITDA margin is nearly doubling. something's working CFO: no way it's because of this ad CMO: i think it is—not just this ad, but the campaign. it's great for our brand and earning high-quality engagements like follows CFO: heartily disagree. our growth is due to COGS savings and new products CMO: true, but this has also contributed significantly. we've measured how these engagements lead to long-term growth in the types of high-margin purchase behaviors we want more of CFO: what are our "highest-margin purchase behaviors"? CMO: purchases from people who search for our brand name or enter our URL directly. brand is likely the primary purchase driver CFO: fair, but how is that different from ad clicks leading to purchases? CMO: it's different. while both are valuable, purchases from ad clicks often focus on product, price, or promotions, whereas branded searches indicate the brand brand is a bigger driver CFO: are you saying revenue from ad clicks is bad? CMO: not at all. but we've relied too much on purchases via paid clicks to drive growth—nearly all our growth came from them in the last two years CFO: really? hmm. but what's your point? CMO: as shown (shares the measurement data), revenue per session and lifetime value from ad clicks are lower than from branded organic searches CFO: where's this data? why haven't i seen it? CMO: i send it weekly in slack. CFO: (embarrassed) ummm, busted? CMO: all good—maybe now you'll open it. this campaign helps balance our approach, generating an emotional connection and reaching people we'd never hit with our conversion-optimized spend. it fills the funnel in a measurable, precise way. and yes, as an added benefit, it increases our direct response efficiency and effectiveness, but the under-appreciated and more important benefit is that it has measurably driven more of those high-margin purchase behaviors we want CFO: how do you know? CMO: we see how follower growth drives incremental revenue from organic search, direct sessions, and organic social referrals over the following six months. we can quantify revenue and ROAS just like our direct response campaigns CFO: why haven't i seen this data? CMO: it's in the same report i send you weekly CFO: (scans report for two minutes... awkward silence) this is awesome. keep doing what you're doing CMO: (surprised) excuse me? CFO: actually, spend more CMO: well, look at you—this is quite the surprise. appreciate the excitement, but i'm testing and scaling in a way that aligns with the process we follow CFO: let's speed up that process a bit, shall we? CMO: gladly

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I used to think Brand was bullsh*t, so imagine my surprise when I was asked to speak at Meta's Performance Marketing Summit about Brand to a room of performance marketers How'd this happen? Many moons ago, I co-founded Chubbies. It's a nine-figure brand now: 8 straight years of top and bottom-line growth, EBITDA up 40% yoy But we almost went out of business first — running the exact playbook a lot of performance marketers are running right now CAC creeping up every year. Only 'growing' when we discounted harder, longer, wider. Same ads, same people, growth on loan from the algorithm Then we incorporated Brand into our 'performance' media, and revenue re-accelerated. More importantly, so did profit Here are 3 mistakes I made, 3 things I learned, and 3 actions you can take on Monday: Here's what I had wrong: 1. I thought brand was logos, fonts, or a brand book nobody opens 2. I thought spending ANY dollars on ads that didn't drive a conversion was the dumbest thing a performance marketer could do 3. And when I finally tried it, I chased the wrong thing — we went for meme-lord reach, piling up views with no connection back to the brand Here's what I know now: 1. Brand is the moat. It's pricing power. It's why people buy from you without you competing on price and features 2. The "trough of despair" everyone's scared of? It doesn't show up — because you fund brand by reallocating your least-efficient dollars, not by adding budget (and other reasons) 3. And it's accountable. Build a behavioral funnel, drive a real action like branded search, measure it with a geo-holdout. It's not a vibes contest More on this "trough of despair" being a nothing burger: 1. The brands we do this for don't see the trough. A ~$75M denim brand grew contribution dollars roughly 50% year over year — with new customers and total revenue climbing the whole time 2. An outdoor brand ran brand media alone — and the lift showed up everywhere its customers shop: its own site, Amazon, TikTok Shop, and strongest of all, 2.5x incremental revenue on a major brick-and-mortar retailer's shelves 3. A six-month geo-holdout showed brand driving 1.93x incremental revenue — while the saturated direct-response they'd been relying on was returning a blended 0.91x Les Binet's research concurs: grow your share of search, and good things follow So, three things you can do Monday: 1. Find the marginal return on your least-efficient dollars. Those can move to brand with no short-term revenue drop 2. Look at the creative you ship. Would your friends be hyped to see it — or "ugh, he's selling me something"? You want a healthy mix 3. Build your behavioral funnel. Define the action at every stage so brand stops being soft and starts being math The full vid is attached. Case studies in the comments. If you still think "performance" brand is bullsh*t — let's discuss What's the data you'd need to see to change your mind? Tell me where you're stuck/skeptical and let's get into it below
14:58
PrestonRuther10's profile picture

I used to think Brand was bullsh*t, so imagine my surprise when I was asked to speak at Meta's Performance Marketing Summit about Brand to a room of performance marketers How'd this happen? Many moons ago, I co-founded Chubbies. It's a nine-figure brand now: 8 straight years of top and bottom-line growth, EBITDA up 40% yoy But we almost went out of business first — running the exact playbook a lot of performance marketers are running right now CAC creeping up every year. Only 'growing' when we discounted harder, longer, wider. Same ads, same people, growth on loan from the algorithm Then we incorporated Brand into our 'performance' media, and revenue re-accelerated. More importantly, so did profit Here are 3 mistakes I made, 3 things I learned, and 3 actions you can take on Monday: Here's what I had wrong: 1. I thought brand was logos, fonts, or a brand book nobody opens 2. I thought spending ANY dollars on ads that didn't drive a conversion was the dumbest thing a performance marketer could do 3. And when I finally tried it, I chased the wrong thing — we went for meme-lord reach, piling up views with no connection back to the brand Here's what I know now: 1. Brand is the moat. It's pricing power. It's why people buy from you without you competing on price and features 2. The "trough of despair" everyone's scared of? It doesn't show up — because you fund brand by reallocating your least-efficient dollars, not by adding budget (and other reasons) 3. And it's accountable. Build a behavioral funnel, drive a real action like branded search, measure it with a geo-holdout. It's not a vibes contest More on this "trough of despair" being a nothing burger: 1. The brands we do this for don't see the trough. A ~$75M denim brand grew contribution dollars roughly 50% year over year — with new customers and total revenue climbing the whole time 2. An outdoor brand ran brand media alone — and the lift showed up everywhere its customers shop: its own site, Amazon, TikTok Shop, and strongest of all, 2.5x incremental revenue on a major brick-and-mortar retailer's shelves 3. A six-month geo-holdout showed brand driving 1.93x incremental revenue — while the saturated direct-response they'd been relying on was returning a blended 0.91x Les Binet's research concurs: grow your share of search, and good things follow So, three things you can do Monday: 1. Find the marginal return on your least-efficient dollars. Those can move to brand with no short-term revenue drop 2. Look at the creative you ship. Would your friends be hyped to see it — or "ugh, he's selling me something"? You want a healthy mix 3. Build your behavioral funnel. Define the action at every stage so brand stops being soft and starts being math The full vid is attached. Case studies in the comments. If you still think "performance" brand is bullsh*t — let's discuss What's the data you'd need to see to change your mind? Tell me where you're stuck/skeptical and let's get into it below

Preston Rutherford

12,336 Aufrufe • vor 3 Monaten

If you're a brand operator, this might be the most useful 4-minute video you watch all weekend. Cherene (Bobbi, ILIA Beauty: 100s of millions revenue) is the GOAT. If your playbook isn't working, you're stuck on discounts, or facing channel cannibalization, look no further than what she has to say. Spoiler alert: it's not about short-term ROAS. It's about Brand. She's in the trenches making it happen & articulates it brilliantly. If you listen to anyone, listen to her. My 3 key takeaways, quotes & actions you can consider: ***Takeaway 1: The old DTC playbook doesn't work anymore.*** "You can't just drive growth by doing running the same growth playbook." "And that works until it doesn't." "We have to, like, build equity into who we are as a brand... exploring, like, what happens if we move a little bit upper funnel?... not looking for, an immediate last click, direct response goal." "But like in order for me to drive the D2C business I'm going to need the total business to grow Like I can't that performance marketing is not enough to grow the business." "So we need to actually invest in brand marketing. We need like real top of funnel marketing dollars to put into the business." ***Takeaway 2: The reason why brands are struggling right now (because they rely on all of their traffic coming from Meta and Google Ads).*** "And I've talked to some of these brands too, like these smaller ones and they're just playing the like meta and Google game and it's really hard because they're not able to drive profitable acquisition because they're not getting traffic outside or acquisition outside of Google and Meta." "And so I think that's where it's like, okay, are you competing in the auction against other brands and how well are you competing?" ***Takeaway 3: The truth about retail expansion and 'cannibalization' (you must expand your brand faster than your distribution).*** "And if you expand your distribution faster than you're able to expand your brand, then you're just trading sales between channels and one channel is going to eat the other." "Well, it's like, no, actually, the brand's responsible for growing its awareness as fast as it's growing its distribution." "And if you think that you can just get sales by expanding distribution, you're gravely mistaken." "So now it's your job to, like, find more people. And that's the challenge, which is again, why that awareness type of marketing is so important as you grow and have distribution." Actions you can take: Ask yourself these Q's on your next vision quest 1. Is my rolling reach up? 2. Organic traffic growth vs. overall business: Is it keeping pace? If not, what are the risks (esp. with Meta CPMs up >25% YoY)? 3. Branded organic search: Are you gaining share vs. competitors? (Crucial to track this data beyond Google Trends). Hope this helps ✌️❤️🤘 Thank you to Andrew Faris for the awesome podcast. All eps are gold.
4:01
PrestonRuther10's profile picture

If you're a brand operator, this might be the most useful 4-minute video you watch all weekend. Cherene (Bobbi, ILIA Beauty: 100s of millions revenue) is the GOAT. If your playbook isn't working, you're stuck on discounts, or facing channel cannibalization, look no further than what she has to say. Spoiler alert: it's not about short-term ROAS. It's about Brand. She's in the trenches making it happen & articulates it brilliantly. If you listen to anyone, listen to her. My 3 key takeaways, quotes & actions you can consider: ***Takeaway 1: The old DTC playbook doesn't work anymore.*** "You can't just drive growth by doing running the same growth playbook." "And that works until it doesn't." "We have to, like, build equity into who we are as a brand... exploring, like, what happens if we move a little bit upper funnel?... not looking for, an immediate last click, direct response goal." "But like in order for me to drive the D2C business I'm going to need the total business to grow Like I can't that performance marketing is not enough to grow the business." "So we need to actually invest in brand marketing. We need like real top of funnel marketing dollars to put into the business." ***Takeaway 2: The reason why brands are struggling right now (because they rely on all of their traffic coming from Meta and Google Ads).*** "And I've talked to some of these brands too, like these smaller ones and they're just playing the like meta and Google game and it's really hard because they're not able to drive profitable acquisition because they're not getting traffic outside or acquisition outside of Google and Meta." "And so I think that's where it's like, okay, are you competing in the auction against other brands and how well are you competing?" ***Takeaway 3: The truth about retail expansion and 'cannibalization' (you must expand your brand faster than your distribution).*** "And if you expand your distribution faster than you're able to expand your brand, then you're just trading sales between channels and one channel is going to eat the other." "Well, it's like, no, actually, the brand's responsible for growing its awareness as fast as it's growing its distribution." "And if you think that you can just get sales by expanding distribution, you're gravely mistaken." "So now it's your job to, like, find more people. And that's the challenge, which is again, why that awareness type of marketing is so important as you grow and have distribution." Actions you can take: Ask yourself these Q's on your next vision quest 1. Is my rolling reach up? 2. Organic traffic growth vs. overall business: Is it keeping pace? If not, what are the risks (esp. with Meta CPMs up >25% YoY)? 3. Branded organic search: Are you gaining share vs. competitors? (Crucial to track this data beyond Google Trends). Hope this helps ✌️❤️🤘 Thank you to Andrew Faris for the awesome podcast. All eps are gold.

Preston Rutherford

17,112 Aufrufe • vor 1 Jahr

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