Joe Murgia
@TheUfoJoe • 116,481 subscribers
Latest on UFOs and paranormal, with in-depth analysis you won't find anywhere else on X. I take this seriously. I know nothing! https://t.co/r5CaCLSVRB
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!["It's been here for a very long time, it goes by many names, it's many different things. And it has an influence on all of us. These things...are probably what are referred to as gods or demons or angels or jinn." ~Dylan Borland (I think Dylan pretty much nailed it in this "Weaponized" interview.) Dylan Borland: "These things, whatever they are, are probably what are referred to as gods or demons or angels or jinn or insert whatever cultural or religious perspective you have. There are probably also extraterrestrials. It's not a one-size-fits-all. "And considering, you know, humanity has the same stories across many cultures: a flood, a craft that are in the sky, things that are coming and helping humans. And I'm at an advantage and a disadvantage knowing certain information that relates very clearly to things that are around the world that are related to what I know. I don't think that's by pure coincidence or luck. "I think that the people that are in these programs know the truth to this stuff, and they are looking at it through a lens of...this is true, this is true, this is true. This has been here for 8000 years. This has been here for 4000 years. Oh, we dug up this at an archeological dig in, hypothetically, Egypt. "You know, I mentioned it to you guys last night, Lacatski in his statement about his faith and what it means to be human and the impact and nothing to fear." ~ "If full human capabilities were known to us right now, [the phenomenon] is not something that we need to fear. Our capabilities...have never been fully revealed and we're still learning. We've got a long way to evolve still." ~Dr. James Lacatski ~ Borland: "You know, Lacatski and I are both Catholics, but I want to be clear in that, it's the idea of something greater than us that is here with us and can influence us. And Pasalka talks about this, and you get into consciousness. And all of these things are so correlated, and that's a problem with this subject. "And that's why one of the things that I'm a huge proponent of, going back to having our government be a part of this, is you have to set a foundation. Because, if you come out and you throw it all out there, people are gonna laugh at you, they're gonna call you crazy, they're gonna do X, Y, and Z. And you have to set a foundation. "And I understand the UFO fanatics are not gonna like this opinion, but this isn't for you, this is for the public. If you want disclosure, the public has to be a part of it. Hence, why I'm here. Is to hopefully get enough people outside of this subject, agitated, upset, and come and say, 'No, we're done with this.' "My big-picture idea is, it's been here for a very long time, it goes by many names, it's many different things. And it has an influence on all of us." George Knapp: "You know, we don't really know what they look like. You know, they're so advanced to us. Gods? Sure, could be at that level. They might as well be gods, they're so far advanced. I don't think they need craft to get here. That's some kind of a bauble, that's a something to get us interested. Hey, look at this. "That's why we maybe have so many of them. The don't necessarily crash. That appears to be a crash. Something that's always been here. I'm not entirely positive they have our best interests at heart. Feels like an experiment. They mess with us on a mass scale, an individual scale, and I'm not sure we're ever gonna understand it." Borland: "I tend to agree with you. I have many thoughts on this, and this is one of the other things I came into knowledge of while at my work at DTRA before I lost my job. When Congress passed the archives legislation where all the agencies were supposed to round up all their documents, I had a wonderful conversation on my last day, and I'm sure it was just coincidental. "The person in charge of collecting all of the information from DTRA, dealing with extraterrestrials, and, as he put it, quote unquote, 'little green men,' happened to sit next to me at my computer terminal and began pulling all of the documents on my system and the systems in our SCIF. "Interesting fact for you was that he came into the old atomic-energy documents from way back when, and there was intelligence and information in those that discuss what you said. Which is, this has been around with them, and that even back then they had a similar outlook that this isn't exactly for our benefit." "You know, you get into...and again, I don't want to go too woo. I want to really avoid the woo, but we're going into hypotheticals, and I try to keep all options open. You're right; they don't...theoretically, they don't have to come here. I mean, we're working with Neuralink, we're projecting thoughts, we're doing all of this...dreams, you have MK Ultra, you have all of this stuff throughout the history, and all of our intelligence agencies never get rid of that capability. They only get better at it. They only get better at hiding it. "But, if somebody's able to put a thought in your head, George, and tell you build this craft, yeah, you're the one who built it, but the thought came from somebody else. And now you start to get into places that are purely hypothetical, and I'm not even saying I believe them. But it's clear there's something to this." Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell: "Like, thoughts as intruders from a non-human intelligence, having humanity do the bidding that they want, without direct knowledge that it's being asked by someone else? And we're talking about that, right?" Borland: "Theoretically, that's a possibility, 100%." ~ Speaking of putting thoughts in our heads... This is from John Keel's "Operation Trojan Horse." I have pulled a TON of excerpts from that book and it's a Top 5 read for me. ~Begin OTH Excerpt~ "In his book Passport to Magonia, Dr. Jacques Vallee, a NASA astronomer and computer expert, touches on all this. 'In the Soviet Union, not so long ago, a leading plasma physicist died in strange circumstances,' Dr. Vallee states. 'He was thrown under a Moscow subway train by a mentally deranged woman. It is noteworthy that she claimed a ‘voice from space’ had given her orders to kill that particular man - orders she could not resist. "Soviet criminologists, I have been reliably informed, are worried by the increase of such cases in recent years. Madmen rushing through the streets because they think the Martians are after them have always been commonplace. But the current wave of mental imbalance that can be specifically tied to the rise and development of the contactee myth is an aspect of the UFO problem that must be considered with special care.” "So there seem to be both good and evil forces at work in this type of phenomenon. The good guys latch onto people with particularly receptive minds and turn them into trance mediums. The bad guys use the same methods to tamper with the minds of contactees and even to commit murders indirectly. Because incidents of these types can be traced throughout history, it seems probable that these forces have always been extant on this planet. ~End OTH Excerpt~ ~ Borland: "I think on Joe Rogan, he mentions like, artificial intelligence influencing humans, who continue to create artificial intelligence, and just round and round." Corbell: "Yeah, the metamorphosis philosophy that Rogan talks about. It's really beautiful." Borland: "I mean, I keep all options on the table. What I know is these things are real; they exist, we've had them, other nations have them. I know that in some way, shape, or form, they appear in a physical sense. I know that they have an interest in people, and I have a strong belief that they have an interest in certain families, if you want to call them that. "What does it all mean? I don't know, but what I do know is that, as a democratic republic and a nation that votes for our elected leaders and leaders that are supposed to provide us information, we're not fulfilling our obligation in our constitution because we're not voting with information. We are lying to ourselves."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2096304163772932534/amplify_video_thumb/2096287422581739520/img/Hv1KrEK9W-7bY7Te.jpg)
"It's been here for a very long time, it goes by many names, it's many different things. And it has an influence on all of us. These things...are probably what are referred to as gods or demons or angels or jinn." ~Dylan Borland (I think Dylan pretty much nailed it in this "Weaponized" interview.) Dylan Borland: "These things, whatever they are, are probably what are referred to as gods or demons or angels or jinn or insert whatever cultural or religious perspective you have. There are probably also extraterrestrials. It's not a one-size-fits-all. "And considering, you know, humanity has the same stories across many cultures: a flood, a craft that are in the sky, things that are coming and helping humans. And I'm at an advantage and a disadvantage knowing certain information that relates very clearly to things that are around the world that are related to what I know. I don't think that's by pure coincidence or luck. "I think that the people that are in these programs know the truth to this stuff, and they are looking at it through a lens of...this is true, this is true, this is true. This has been here for 8000 years. This has been here for 4000 years. Oh, we dug up this at an archeological dig in, hypothetically, Egypt. "You know, I mentioned it to you guys last night, Lacatski in his statement about his faith and what it means to be human and the impact and nothing to fear." ~ "If full human capabilities were known to us right now, [the phenomenon] is not something that we need to fear. Our capabilities...have never been fully revealed and we're still learning. We've got a long way to evolve still." ~Dr. James Lacatski ~ Borland: "You know, Lacatski and I are both Catholics, but I want to be clear in that, it's the idea of something greater than us that is here with us and can influence us. And Pasalka talks about this, and you get into consciousness. And all of these things are so correlated, and that's a problem with this subject. "And that's why one of the things that I'm a huge proponent of, going back to having our government be a part of this, is you have to set a foundation. Because, if you come out and you throw it all out there, people are gonna laugh at you, they're gonna call you crazy, they're gonna do X, Y, and Z. And you have to set a foundation. "And I understand the UFO fanatics are not gonna like this opinion, but this isn't for you, this is for the public. If you want disclosure, the public has to be a part of it. Hence, why I'm here. Is to hopefully get enough people outside of this subject, agitated, upset, and come and say, 'No, we're done with this.' "My big-picture idea is, it's been here for a very long time, it goes by many names, it's many different things. And it has an influence on all of us." George Knapp: "You know, we don't really know what they look like. You know, they're so advanced to us. Gods? Sure, could be at that level. They might as well be gods, they're so far advanced. I don't think they need craft to get here. That's some kind of a bauble, that's a something to get us interested. Hey, look at this. "That's why we maybe have so many of them. The don't necessarily crash. That appears to be a crash. Something that's always been here. I'm not entirely positive they have our best interests at heart. Feels like an experiment. They mess with us on a mass scale, an individual scale, and I'm not sure we're ever gonna understand it." Borland: "I tend to agree with you. I have many thoughts on this, and this is one of the other things I came into knowledge of while at my work at DTRA before I lost my job. When Congress passed the archives legislation where all the agencies were supposed to round up all their documents, I had a wonderful conversation on my last day, and I'm sure it was just coincidental. "The person in charge of collecting all of the information from DTRA, dealing with extraterrestrials, and, as he put it, quote unquote, 'little green men,' happened to sit next to me at my computer terminal and began pulling all of the documents on my system and the systems in our SCIF. "Interesting fact for you was that he came into the old atomic-energy documents from way back when, and there was intelligence and information in those that discuss what you said. Which is, this has been around with them, and that even back then they had a similar outlook that this isn't exactly for our benefit." "You know, you get into...and again, I don't want to go too woo. I want to really avoid the woo, but we're going into hypotheticals, and I try to keep all options open. You're right; they don't...theoretically, they don't have to come here. I mean, we're working with Neuralink, we're projecting thoughts, we're doing all of this...dreams, you have MK Ultra, you have all of this stuff throughout the history, and all of our intelligence agencies never get rid of that capability. They only get better at it. They only get better at hiding it. "But, if somebody's able to put a thought in your head, George, and tell you build this craft, yeah, you're the one who built it, but the thought came from somebody else. And now you start to get into places that are purely hypothetical, and I'm not even saying I believe them. But it's clear there's something to this." Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell: "Like, thoughts as intruders from a non-human intelligence, having humanity do the bidding that they want, without direct knowledge that it's being asked by someone else? And we're talking about that, right?" Borland: "Theoretically, that's a possibility, 100%." ~ Speaking of putting thoughts in our heads... This is from John Keel's "Operation Trojan Horse." I have pulled a TON of excerpts from that book and it's a Top 5 read for me. ~Begin OTH Excerpt~ "In his book Passport to Magonia, Dr. Jacques Vallee, a NASA astronomer and computer expert, touches on all this. 'In the Soviet Union, not so long ago, a leading plasma physicist died in strange circumstances,' Dr. Vallee states. 'He was thrown under a Moscow subway train by a mentally deranged woman. It is noteworthy that she claimed a ‘voice from space’ had given her orders to kill that particular man - orders she could not resist. "Soviet criminologists, I have been reliably informed, are worried by the increase of such cases in recent years. Madmen rushing through the streets because they think the Martians are after them have always been commonplace. But the current wave of mental imbalance that can be specifically tied to the rise and development of the contactee myth is an aspect of the UFO problem that must be considered with special care.” "So there seem to be both good and evil forces at work in this type of phenomenon. The good guys latch onto people with particularly receptive minds and turn them into trance mediums. The bad guys use the same methods to tamper with the minds of contactees and even to commit murders indirectly. Because incidents of these types can be traced throughout history, it seems probable that these forces have always been extant on this planet. ~End OTH Excerpt~ ~ Borland: "I think on Joe Rogan, he mentions like, artificial intelligence influencing humans, who continue to create artificial intelligence, and just round and round." Corbell: "Yeah, the metamorphosis philosophy that Rogan talks about. It's really beautiful." Borland: "I mean, I keep all options on the table. What I know is these things are real; they exist, we've had them, other nations have them. I know that in some way, shape, or form, they appear in a physical sense. I know that they have an interest in people, and I have a strong belief that they have an interest in certain families, if you want to call them that. "What does it all mean? I don't know, but what I do know is that, as a democratic republic and a nation that votes for our elected leaders and leaders that are supposed to provide us information, we're not fulfilling our obligation in our constitution because we're not voting with information. We are lying to ourselves."
Joe Murgia68,732 views • 4 days ago
!["I don't have the file that says, 'Oh, this wasn't a UFO, it was actually a demon.'" ~VP JD Vance 🛸 UFOs: Apparently, VP Vance Doesn't Listen 🙉 Vance: "[Joe Rogan] thinks they're extraterrestrials." (What Rogan actually said.) Rogan: "Is this something that's far more bizarre and something that is interdimensional, from another planet, whatever, fill in the blank?" (That convo was a lot more involved and nuanced, and I'll link to it in the replies. Or, you can watch/read it here. ⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️ ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️ ~~~ Bryce Crawford (Bryce Crawford): "You have access to more information and things than the average bear. I mean, you have Top Secret-access. Has anything that you've learned from this job convinced you that the spiritual world is real, since getting that access?" Vance: "So, you know, like, I haven't seen anything that says okay, there's a clear spiritual dimension to this particular problem. You know, like, I don't have the file that says, 'Oh, this wasn't a UFO, it was actually a demon.' "I have this strong view. I actually kind of got into an argument with Joe Rogan about this, who I like a lot, by the way. But Joe thinks they're extraterrestrials, and then I'm sure a lot of people think it's all fake. And my attitude is, if they are real, isn't it as likely that they're angels or demons as they are extraterrestrials? But like, I don't have like, a Top-Secret file that sort of proves that one way or the other." (There may be files and evidence that tells us more about what we're dealing with, but if it's in a WUSAP, I doubt the VP would have/get access to that stuff.)](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2096286640524398739/amplify_video_thumb/2096282573152645120/img/QFWTR2udlVXGZFQl.jpg)
"I don't have the file that says, 'Oh, this wasn't a UFO, it was actually a demon.'" ~VP JD Vance 🛸 UFOs: Apparently, VP Vance Doesn't Listen 🙉 Vance: "[Joe Rogan] thinks they're extraterrestrials." (What Rogan actually said.) Rogan: "Is this something that's far more bizarre and something that is interdimensional, from another planet, whatever, fill in the blank?" (That convo was a lot more involved and nuanced, and I'll link to it in the replies. Or, you can watch/read it here. ⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️ ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️ ~~~ Bryce Crawford (Bryce Crawford): "You have access to more information and things than the average bear. I mean, you have Top Secret-access. Has anything that you've learned from this job convinced you that the spiritual world is real, since getting that access?" Vance: "So, you know, like, I haven't seen anything that says okay, there's a clear spiritual dimension to this particular problem. You know, like, I don't have the file that says, 'Oh, this wasn't a UFO, it was actually a demon.' "I have this strong view. I actually kind of got into an argument with Joe Rogan about this, who I like a lot, by the way. But Joe thinks they're extraterrestrials, and then I'm sure a lot of people think it's all fake. And my attitude is, if they are real, isn't it as likely that they're angels or demons as they are extraterrestrials? But like, I don't have like, a Top-Secret file that sort of proves that one way or the other." (There may be files and evidence that tells us more about what we're dealing with, but if it's in a WUSAP, I doubt the VP would have/get access to that stuff.)
Joe Murgia62,025 views • 4 days ago
This was REALLY a great listen, and troubling... "Sam Altman didn't know you could make his product (ChatGPT) find classified information. I told him I did." ~Annie Jacobsen Note to Self: Ask ChatGPT the location of non-human craft & bodies, & the codes to unlock the doors. 😎
Joe Murgia419,175 views • 1 month ago
This one is pretty cool! (UNDISCLOSED LOCATION) 01.01.2024 Courtesy Video All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office The United States Indo-Pacific Command submitted a report of an unidentified anomalous phenomenon to the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) consisting of one minute and 39 seconds of video footage from an infrared sensor aboard a U.S. military platform in 2024. The reporter did not provide any oral or written description of the observation.
Joe Murgia1,295,024 views • 4 months ago
"I think they're here." ~Sandra Bullock "There are aliens ships flying around the sky. I have seen them, and I'm so happy that the government has finally corroborated my story so I no longer feel like an insane person. There was five altogether." ~SB to Kylie Kelce
Joe Murgia45,819 views • 7 days ago
!["There is no doubt at all that the Americans have been in possession of crashed craft since the 1940s." "In Washington, it's an open secret that [the UFO phenomenon is real]." "There's no question [we've had aliens here on Earth.]" "Do [aliens] believe in God?" (Nice to have this coverage on Sky News. I just bought his book for .99 on Kindle so we'll see if there's anything new.) H/T: UfosAroundTheWorld Jonathan Caplan, KC (King's Counsel): "My day job is a barrister and, of course, this is completely out of sync with that. But it's a subject which I've followed very closely for 50 years. I've met most of the key scientists, researchers - through them, and my job - introductions to intelligence officers who've spoken to me off the record for a long time now. And I decided to write, 'Not For Disclosure' to allow people to have an informed debate on this very important topic." ("Barrister refers to a lawyer in the United Kingdom and other common law countries whose role is court advocacy and to provide counsel to their clients in specialized areas of law." ~Source: Cornell Law School) Wilfred Frost (WF): "The reason I set it up with what the job is, is, I mean, your day job is, literally, evidence-based. Hardcore, prove-beyond-a-reasonable-doubt." Caplan: "Yes." WF: "And you, in this book feel you've got that level of evidence to prove..." Caplan: "There's no question about it. The evidence is real. I've chosen the real evidence. It is very extensive. It demonstrates a very-clear phenomenon. And the debate now is no longer whether this is a real phenomenon or not. In Washington, it's an open secret that it is, and the debate now is trying to force disclosure because Congress has been misled for 80 years, and governments in many countries around the world have followed the same policy to hide this phenomenon from more public exposure." WF: "So you are absolutely certain we've had aliens here on Earth?" Caplan: "There's no question." WF: "Are you struck that I'm still quite surprised about...?" Caplan: "Yes, I think we have to go back, in fact, to the 1940s when this subject was, in fact, debunked officially by the Americans, it was followed by the British, and by Five Eyes. But the evidence is overwhelming. Many intelligence officials have now come forward to attest to that. "There is no question, for example, that UAPs have appeared over all nuclear facilities. They've interacted with many military exercises, and there is a lot of hard evidence. And I'm not talking about witnesses, I'm talking about data which exists, much of which has never been released." (We need a TON more data. Let's see the good stuff, assuming it exists.) Caplan: "And Congress now knows the truth that it has been lied to for 80 years. Many tax dollars have been misappropriated to fund UAP programs, and there is now a big debate with the Pentagon to release the information. WF: "Can you understand why governments have hidden this secret?" Caplan: "Yes. I think two reasons. One - and I accept these concepts are very difficult for people to grasp, which is one of the reasons I've written the book - there is no doubt at all that the Americans have been in possession of crashed craft since the 1940s, and they've recovered others since then. So have the Chinese and so have the Russians. And there are big technological reverse engineering programs into the technology of this mysterious phenomenon, and obviously whoever wins that will have a very dominant position. "I think the other reason is that there's a real fear that, despite the money and time that's been spent on this, they really are unsure as to a number of key questions. And simply to announce that there's a phenomenon without being able to answer, well, what's the agenda? Where are they from? Do they believe in God? Questions of that kind would cause a lot of destabilization." WF: "A bigger question to me would be: Do they come in peace?" Caplan: "Exactly." WF: "Do we know...do you know...address that in the book?" Caplan: "I do address in the book, so far as I...we know. And, of course, there's a department within the CIA, the Counter Proliferation Mission, which has that very subject as its brief, and it is assisted in intelligence and information from the State Department. China also has its own programs into this. So does Russia." WF: "And just finally, Jonathan, I mean, in terms of what we hope comes from this publication... I mean, do you think that we'll make it very clear in the years ahead and have an open discussion about it, or do you think the governments will continue to try and keep it secret?" Caplan: "I think the time is coming when we're gonna have to have more open discussion. It's already happening. And I think the key is to have an informed debate, people need to have information. We need to have a syllabus where this subject is taught by academia, where we've got more recognized research in proper universities and institutions."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2095599851023298704/amplify_video_thumb/2095590841402437632/img/xMQ_ZPkiVrX44jNT.jpg)
"There is no doubt at all that the Americans have been in possession of crashed craft since the 1940s." "In Washington, it's an open secret that [the UFO phenomenon is real]." "There's no question [we've had aliens here on Earth.]" "Do [aliens] believe in God?" (Nice to have this coverage on Sky News. I just bought his book for .99 on Kindle so we'll see if there's anything new.) H/T: UfosAroundTheWorld Jonathan Caplan, KC (King's Counsel): "My day job is a barrister and, of course, this is completely out of sync with that. But it's a subject which I've followed very closely for 50 years. I've met most of the key scientists, researchers - through them, and my job - introductions to intelligence officers who've spoken to me off the record for a long time now. And I decided to write, 'Not For Disclosure' to allow people to have an informed debate on this very important topic." ("Barrister refers to a lawyer in the United Kingdom and other common law countries whose role is court advocacy and to provide counsel to their clients in specialized areas of law." ~Source: Cornell Law School) Wilfred Frost (WF): "The reason I set it up with what the job is, is, I mean, your day job is, literally, evidence-based. Hardcore, prove-beyond-a-reasonable-doubt." Caplan: "Yes." WF: "And you, in this book feel you've got that level of evidence to prove..." Caplan: "There's no question about it. The evidence is real. I've chosen the real evidence. It is very extensive. It demonstrates a very-clear phenomenon. And the debate now is no longer whether this is a real phenomenon or not. In Washington, it's an open secret that it is, and the debate now is trying to force disclosure because Congress has been misled for 80 years, and governments in many countries around the world have followed the same policy to hide this phenomenon from more public exposure." WF: "So you are absolutely certain we've had aliens here on Earth?" Caplan: "There's no question." WF: "Are you struck that I'm still quite surprised about...?" Caplan: "Yes, I think we have to go back, in fact, to the 1940s when this subject was, in fact, debunked officially by the Americans, it was followed by the British, and by Five Eyes. But the evidence is overwhelming. Many intelligence officials have now come forward to attest to that. "There is no question, for example, that UAPs have appeared over all nuclear facilities. They've interacted with many military exercises, and there is a lot of hard evidence. And I'm not talking about witnesses, I'm talking about data which exists, much of which has never been released." (We need a TON more data. Let's see the good stuff, assuming it exists.) Caplan: "And Congress now knows the truth that it has been lied to for 80 years. Many tax dollars have been misappropriated to fund UAP programs, and there is now a big debate with the Pentagon to release the information. WF: "Can you understand why governments have hidden this secret?" Caplan: "Yes. I think two reasons. One - and I accept these concepts are very difficult for people to grasp, which is one of the reasons I've written the book - there is no doubt at all that the Americans have been in possession of crashed craft since the 1940s, and they've recovered others since then. So have the Chinese and so have the Russians. And there are big technological reverse engineering programs into the technology of this mysterious phenomenon, and obviously whoever wins that will have a very dominant position. "I think the other reason is that there's a real fear that, despite the money and time that's been spent on this, they really are unsure as to a number of key questions. And simply to announce that there's a phenomenon without being able to answer, well, what's the agenda? Where are they from? Do they believe in God? Questions of that kind would cause a lot of destabilization." WF: "A bigger question to me would be: Do they come in peace?" Caplan: "Exactly." WF: "Do we know...do you know...address that in the book?" Caplan: "I do address in the book, so far as I...we know. And, of course, there's a department within the CIA, the Counter Proliferation Mission, which has that very subject as its brief, and it is assisted in intelligence and information from the State Department. China also has its own programs into this. So does Russia." WF: "And just finally, Jonathan, I mean, in terms of what we hope comes from this publication... I mean, do you think that we'll make it very clear in the years ahead and have an open discussion about it, or do you think the governments will continue to try and keep it secret?" Caplan: "I think the time is coming when we're gonna have to have more open discussion. It's already happening. And I think the key is to have an informed debate, people need to have information. We need to have a syllabus where this subject is taught by academia, where we've got more recognized research in proper universities and institutions."
Joe Murgia39,007 views • 6 days ago
![Coulthart: "I am...told by White House sources that President Trump has personally authorized [the shoot down of UFOs]." Knapp: "I take with a grain of salt the reports that the President has authorized the shoot down of UFOs. That doesn't make sense." (Regarding those reports (from Ross Coulthart), I said this on August 9th, after he said it.) Murgia: "A year ago, Ross told us he thought certain senators were read into the crash retrieval program and he'd start naming them. Still waiting. "Now this? 🤔 "Something seems off." This is what Ross said: Coulthart on 8/9/2026: "The Department of War has quite literally taken on the running of its own covert operation to intercept these mystery objects. And I'm told they have recently downed objects, craft, both in the U.S. and across the border near Juarez in Mexico. "I am also told by White House sources that President Trump has personally authorized this operation, which perhaps explains why no full admission has yet been made to the public about the full extent of what the government really knows. "There is a full-on effort underway by the administration to recover suspected non-human intelligence exotic technology in a program totally separate from the so-called Legacy program. This is an attempt by the President to circumvent the legacy program. "It's been run out of the White House by the President's most senior intelligence advisers. President Trump has tasked the Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth, to find out what these objects are and to capture them. The Office of the Director of National Intelligence - ODNI - is also involved. "Sources have told me that one of the directed-energy-weapon systems used at White Sands, in an attempt to shoot down these mystery craft, is what's called high pulse microwave. It shuts down an aircraft by emitting an intense burst of electromagnetic energy that travels at the speed of light, penetrates the aircraft and fries its electronic systems. "My sources tell me that the craft objects, UAPs, whatever you wanna call them, are being targeted over White Sands, and they definitely show anomalous properties conforming to the five observables that define UAPs." Regarding psionics and the alleged electronic dog whistle being used at Sierra Blanca, Ross added this... Coulthart: "Defense sources tell me that their observers were watching on during Skywatcher's Sierra Blanca operation, and they made a major discovery during Skywatcher's psionic summoning and dog-whistle operations during 2025, including in that last July 2025 test, I can't name my sources, but I'm very sure they're rock solid." ~From Today's Weaponized~ George Knapp: "I take with a grain of salt the reports that the President has authorized the shoot down of UFOs. That doesn't make sense. I don't get that sense from the conversations he had with Robert Bigelow back in February that that kind of order would ever be issued or would ever make sense to any country. "I am intrigued by the reports of luring operations, because as you and I know, there have been operations like that in years past that did produce pretty dramatic results, in terms of something following nuclear assets. But drawing them in and shooting them down, as some people have said, or bringing them down with the power of your mind, I take that with a grain of salt. "I do give credence to Rep. Eric Burlison - and you've been in closer contact with him than I - that says there is something to those reports. At least part of that, right?" Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell: "Yeah, I mean, look, people have deduced that December of 2025, that White Sands was the location. They kind of deduced that, that there was a massive incursion. There's two sets of documents, one by FBI, one by ODNI, that's in the tranche releases. And that is the same event, that's what people are talking about. "And they called it luring because it was described to me that they had set up all of the same situations that typically seemed to provoke a response from UAP, and would stimulate like, an incursion. And sure enough, it happened. Now, I have not heard, and I do not believe it was some psionic thing. I think that they were moving stuff. That's to the best of my knowledge, they were moving stuff around. This is what was said to me, and I read between the lines. "But at no point was there anything said to me for all the sources and everything that I've heard about it, about any psionic assets or any shoot downs or anything like that. I'd be highly surprised. I think what they did was, they started moving stuff around - that you and I know, notoriously, stimulates response." ~ (When I interviewed Lue Elizondo in March of 2022, we had this exchange...) Murgia: "Baiting and luring UFOs. You mentioned it on 𝗖𝗥𝗜𝗦𝗧𝗜𝗡𝗔 𝗚𝗢𝗠𝗘𝗭' show...how you successfully did that in AATIP. "Somebody I know, a source, said, 'The way we attract and coax UAP has to do with nuclear power; nuclear weapon sites; deployed weapons; weapons or nuclear fuel being moved around; weapons being manufactured; nuclear fuel being manufactured; and manufacturing sites...and that attracts them.' To me, that sounds like AI. It seems like it's reacting to something automatically." Lue: "Your friend seems to be very well informed." ~ Corbell: "You used to chase those armored nuclear vehicles in Las Vegas, and I got a call from one of the drivers who said, 'Oh, when George Knapp was going behind us and did that news report, it completely changed our protocols of what we had to do. It rewrote the manual.' "But you had heard about these trucks and about how moving them, these nukes, would sometimes create or stimulate a UAP response. This individual that called me to complain to me about you, affirmed that to me." Knapp: [Laughs] Corbell: "So, you know, it's like one of those things, man. So if that's what they were doing and they did get a response, I know a couple people in the political realm who have specifically asked to be invited to the next time that they set up those those protocols. Again, I'd heard nothing of psionics or anything like that. I think they were moving nuclear things, and I think that that's what stimulated the response. "It'd be amazing to see if they get a Round 2 on that, and again, get the same response that they can document it, film it. Think about all the footage, George, that we're not seeing from those two sets of documents about that White Sands - is what people think - incursion event. There was so much footage, so much footage taken from so many different military assets. We're seeing just the just the top of it, you know?"](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2095257834451882234/amplify_video_thumb/2095243304355139584/img/pCH3UyPFOKaGPiKu.jpg)
Coulthart: "I am...told by White House sources that President Trump has personally authorized [the shoot down of UFOs]." Knapp: "I take with a grain of salt the reports that the President has authorized the shoot down of UFOs. That doesn't make sense." (Regarding those reports (from Ross Coulthart), I said this on August 9th, after he said it.) Murgia: "A year ago, Ross told us he thought certain senators were read into the crash retrieval program and he'd start naming them. Still waiting. "Now this? 🤔 "Something seems off." This is what Ross said: Coulthart on 8/9/2026: "The Department of War has quite literally taken on the running of its own covert operation to intercept these mystery objects. And I'm told they have recently downed objects, craft, both in the U.S. and across the border near Juarez in Mexico. "I am also told by White House sources that President Trump has personally authorized this operation, which perhaps explains why no full admission has yet been made to the public about the full extent of what the government really knows. "There is a full-on effort underway by the administration to recover suspected non-human intelligence exotic technology in a program totally separate from the so-called Legacy program. This is an attempt by the President to circumvent the legacy program. "It's been run out of the White House by the President's most senior intelligence advisers. President Trump has tasked the Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth, to find out what these objects are and to capture them. The Office of the Director of National Intelligence - ODNI - is also involved. "Sources have told me that one of the directed-energy-weapon systems used at White Sands, in an attempt to shoot down these mystery craft, is what's called high pulse microwave. It shuts down an aircraft by emitting an intense burst of electromagnetic energy that travels at the speed of light, penetrates the aircraft and fries its electronic systems. "My sources tell me that the craft objects, UAPs, whatever you wanna call them, are being targeted over White Sands, and they definitely show anomalous properties conforming to the five observables that define UAPs." Regarding psionics and the alleged electronic dog whistle being used at Sierra Blanca, Ross added this... Coulthart: "Defense sources tell me that their observers were watching on during Skywatcher's Sierra Blanca operation, and they made a major discovery during Skywatcher's psionic summoning and dog-whistle operations during 2025, including in that last July 2025 test, I can't name my sources, but I'm very sure they're rock solid." ~From Today's Weaponized~ George Knapp: "I take with a grain of salt the reports that the President has authorized the shoot down of UFOs. That doesn't make sense. I don't get that sense from the conversations he had with Robert Bigelow back in February that that kind of order would ever be issued or would ever make sense to any country. "I am intrigued by the reports of luring operations, because as you and I know, there have been operations like that in years past that did produce pretty dramatic results, in terms of something following nuclear assets. But drawing them in and shooting them down, as some people have said, or bringing them down with the power of your mind, I take that with a grain of salt. "I do give credence to Rep. Eric Burlison - and you've been in closer contact with him than I - that says there is something to those reports. At least part of that, right?" Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell: "Yeah, I mean, look, people have deduced that December of 2025, that White Sands was the location. They kind of deduced that, that there was a massive incursion. There's two sets of documents, one by FBI, one by ODNI, that's in the tranche releases. And that is the same event, that's what people are talking about. "And they called it luring because it was described to me that they had set up all of the same situations that typically seemed to provoke a response from UAP, and would stimulate like, an incursion. And sure enough, it happened. Now, I have not heard, and I do not believe it was some psionic thing. I think that they were moving stuff. That's to the best of my knowledge, they were moving stuff around. This is what was said to me, and I read between the lines. "But at no point was there anything said to me for all the sources and everything that I've heard about it, about any psionic assets or any shoot downs or anything like that. I'd be highly surprised. I think what they did was, they started moving stuff around - that you and I know, notoriously, stimulates response." ~ (When I interviewed Lue Elizondo in March of 2022, we had this exchange...) Murgia: "Baiting and luring UFOs. You mentioned it on 𝗖𝗥𝗜𝗦𝗧𝗜𝗡𝗔 𝗚𝗢𝗠𝗘𝗭' show...how you successfully did that in AATIP. "Somebody I know, a source, said, 'The way we attract and coax UAP has to do with nuclear power; nuclear weapon sites; deployed weapons; weapons or nuclear fuel being moved around; weapons being manufactured; nuclear fuel being manufactured; and manufacturing sites...and that attracts them.' To me, that sounds like AI. It seems like it's reacting to something automatically." Lue: "Your friend seems to be very well informed." ~ Corbell: "You used to chase those armored nuclear vehicles in Las Vegas, and I got a call from one of the drivers who said, 'Oh, when George Knapp was going behind us and did that news report, it completely changed our protocols of what we had to do. It rewrote the manual.' "But you had heard about these trucks and about how moving them, these nukes, would sometimes create or stimulate a UAP response. This individual that called me to complain to me about you, affirmed that to me." Knapp: [Laughs] Corbell: "So, you know, it's like one of those things, man. So if that's what they were doing and they did get a response, I know a couple people in the political realm who have specifically asked to be invited to the next time that they set up those those protocols. Again, I'd heard nothing of psionics or anything like that. I think they were moving nuclear things, and I think that that's what stimulated the response. "It'd be amazing to see if they get a Round 2 on that, and again, get the same response that they can document it, film it. Think about all the footage, George, that we're not seeing from those two sets of documents about that White Sands - is what people think - incursion event. There was so much footage, so much footage taken from so many different military assets. We're seeing just the just the top of it, you know?"
Joe Murgia37,362 views • 7 days ago
👽😳 Holy Crap! 😱👽 "This alien creature jumped over a cyclone fence like it was nothing. WAY over it. Jumped on top of the roof of their house. And then it leaped enormous distances, like maybe 50 feet at a time, and disappeared." ~Bigelow (I don't know what I'd do if I saw something like that! And I know it's just an anecdote and third hand. I'd love to hear directly from the witness.) Robert Bigelow (Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies (BICS)): "And we, particularly, established a strong rapport with BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs) and the Deputy Sheriff's Department. And we gained enormous information by what they saw, what they chased, what happened in their homes. What happened in broad daylight in their front yards. "One, I never will forget, a story by one BIA fellow. And he said that his wife was hysterical. She was out in the yard with her little boy, and this thing jumped over...this alien creature, jumped over a cyclone fence like it was nothing. WAY over it. And got within...jumped on top of the roof of their house, as I recall, and she went hysterical. And then it leaped enormous distances, like maybe 50 feet at a time, and disappeared. "So her husband came, drove to the house very quickly, and checked everything out and so forth. But that anomalous kind of story and creature, which is unbelievable, was part of the data that we had, and the number of testimonies, reliable witnesses that we had, in addition to the sheriff people and the BIA people themselves, not just their family members. So we got into some really interesting things that were amazing."
Joe Murgia70,632 views • 15 days ago
!["Triangles are a result of reverse engineering and sometimes piloted by 'them' and other times piloted by 'us AND them.'" 👽🤝👨🏻 Agreements, and Humans Working Alongside Non-Humans? 🛸▽👽 (This is relatively interesting, and I think you guys are going to like it. It's a little bit long. First, Matt on with Jesse and the clip below.) Matthew Brown (Matthew): "At this point in time, it's possible that, you know, the United States and others have some sort of derivative technology that looks like the big, black triangle, right? There's that famous NIDS study done in the, I think, late '90s or early 2000s where they correlate triangle sightings to naval bases in the United States." ~Lacatski!~ (I can't write about triangles without including the words of Dr. James Lacatski on Weaponized, with George Knapp and Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell. Lacatski ran the AAWSAP UFO program for the DIA.) Corbell: "We hear about all these people on military bases seeing triangles, and you're doing this study, AAWSAP, to try to figure out the physics of how to do that. Do you think it's already been achieved by the U.S. government, or it hasn't, and that's why AAWSAP had a lot of value." Lacatski: "It hasn't been achieved to its full extent." ~D'Amato~ Dick D'Amato was a longtime (18 years) senior staffer for Senate Democratic Leader Robert C. Byrd of West Virginia.) "Dick D'Amato has returned from Belgium where he met with Colonel De Brouwer, a 'very interesting fellow.' Dick’s conclusion, again, is that the triangular objects are very plain human craft. ~Jacques Vallée's Forbidden Science Volume 4 - November 1992 ~ Brown: "So either, what's going on is, you know, there's some sort of recurring exchange or...and use of our facilities by whatever is piloting these big black triangles. Or, we have some sort of derivative technology ourselves that operate from these bases. "Jeff Nuccetelli (Jeff Nuccetelli) also described, you know, a big , black triangle coming out of the Pacific Ocean, flying into Vandenberg, basically hovering over the runway at Vandenberg Air Force Base and then disappearing." ~ Nuccetelli at the Congressional Hearing: "I talked to five shaken witnesses who described a massive triangular craft, larger than a football field, that hovered silently for about 45 seconds over their entry-control point before shooting away at impossible speed." ~ Jesse Michels - Jesse Michels: "Dylan Borland, also at Langley in 2012." Brown: "Exactly." ~ Dylan Borland at the Congressional Hearing: "At approximately 01 30, I saw an, approximately, 100-foot equilateral triangle take off from near the NASA hangar on the base." ~ Michels: "He sees this triangular craft, seemingly, kind of come out of, or maybe it was hovering around a NASA hangar at the Air Force base, and then it flies at his head. And then it flies off." ~My Tweet from October 2025~~~ Daniel Gockerell on Weaponized, and My Comments 2006, Eglin AFB... Murgia 2025: "This sounds similar to what Dylan Borland says he saw at Langley AFB. If this stuff is so secret, why do they seem so lax in allowing others, who are not cleared, to see it? "If this craft exists... "Is it ours, that we developed own our own? "Is it craft that we constructed and reverse engineered, based, in part, on technology of unknown origin that we have acquired? "Is it a craft of unknown origin that we acquired and learned how to fly? "Are 'they' working with us and showing us how to fly 'their' craft?" ~ Daniel Gockerell: "I step outside, and I look to my left...and I see hovering, about 15 to 20 feet off the ground, this giant, maybe 300 or so feet in length (size of a football field. ~Joe), aircraft. "This just goes straight up and it's dead quiet, nothing, not a sound. I could hear the buzzing from the generator lights, right? So, this gets about to the canopy, like, height, a little over the canopy, and does a slight bank, and takes off. "This aircraft, when it banks, I can see that it's a perfect triangle, and it's gigantic, and it has a white light at each apex of the triangle and a large, white light in the center. And it takes off, and it zips out of sight. I mean, Mach something we don't know." Full transcript and video clip... ~End Gockerell Transcript~ (And let's not forgot my friend, Michael Via, who says he saw a "majestic," silent black triangle in 1992 in the Persian Gulf. Watch him talk about it here. ⬇️) ~ Brown: "Yeah, I'd be pretty freaked out if that happened to me. Yeah, so, you know, these are all examples of the United States having some sort of relationship with these craft, whether it's our own, gifted tech, or truly a third party, can only speculate. But, you know, I have some good guesses." Michels: "What's your best guess?" Brown: "That there is an exchange or some sort of arrangement with whatever is piloting the black triangles that are not ours? I believe we do have a derivative version at this point, but that is, again, derived from the real thing. And the real thing, there is some sort of ongoing contact and communication, clearly, not just the United States, but other governments as well. That's my opinion." (An agreement between some aspect of our government and an anomalous intelligence that flies the triangles that are NOT our reverse engineered craft? Are there multiple governments in contact with a non-human intelligence and working side-by-side with "them"?) Michels: "And when it flies in the vicinity, there's like, some sort of download that occurs. There's like a transmission of information." Brown: "That's what some people have reported. Again, I did not come across official information. Well, I did not come across information on that in the Immaculate-Constellation briefing." (In other words, Brown is suggesting that he may have come across information about that from sources other than the Immaculate Constellation files.) Michels: "Okay, all right. We'll read between the lines there." ~ (Murgia 2026: Now the interesting part. Does anybody remember when I shared this from Jeremy McGowan? I have posts about it that go back to 2021. This one is from 2024 and I edited it very lightly for grammar and clarity.) Murgia 2024: "A few years ago, in some private group, [Jeremy McGowan] said he was at Lue's place in Wyoming. "Someone shared his comments with me and here they are..." McGowan: "From Lue's mouth to my face while I was at his place for a week back in January [of 2021]. Lue (allegedly): "We know who's in the saucers. We know who is in the triangles. We don't have a clue who is in the Tic Tacs." (I asked a source about that and they said the information (in those three sentences) was accurate. But there's no evidence to back it up so, as with everything here, remain skeptical. More on what Lue allegedly told McGowan in 2021... 👇🏼 ) Q from a Group DM: "So saucers and triangles are terrestrial and Tic Tac aren't?" McGowan: "Not exactly. Saucers are 'ultra-terrestrial.' Triangles are a result of reverse engineering and sometimes piloted by 'them' and other times piloted by 'us AND them.' And the Tic Tacs are a complete enigma." ~ Murgia 2024: "Are triangular UFOs sometimes piloted by us and them, with them being NHI? Do some NHI work alongside us in classified programs? I don't know." ~End 2024 Tweet~ (Murgia 2026: That source who told me those first three sentences were accurate? They backed down from that a year or so later. Did they misunderstand what I was originally asking? Or, did they realize they shouldn't have shared that with me because it was "sensitive" and they wanted to do some damage control? I don't know. I also put out a long tweet a few years ago about OG remote viewer, Lyn Buchanan, talking about seeing what he thought were non-humans working alongside humans.) Buchanan: "I'm 𝑠𝑎𝑦𝑖𝑛𝑔 that I have seen extraterrestrials working 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ humans in black op areas. In human, black op areas." You can read the full post here: ~ (Murgia 2026: Here are the names of folks who have spoken about possible agreements between human governments and a non-human intelligence, and/or...Us working with "Them." David Grusch Lue Elizondo (allegedly, since it's second hand) Dylan Borland Matthew Brown Lenval Logan - Try.ThePhenom.App (A month or so ago, on a podcast, he said someone told him to look into "agreements," but he didn't say who told him.) Lyn Buchanan And, a contact of mine who brought it up out of the blue a few months ago. It caught me off guard. 👀 Several years ago, in an interview with Project Unity, Sean Cahill (who was there when McGowan spent time at Lue's in 2021) was asked about the "we-know-who's-in-the-saucers" claim. He said, "That's bullsh*t... That is the outline of a fiction story." I'm not so sure. One more thing: I asked Lue about it when he did a Clubhouse event in July of 2021.) Murgia: "If we believe that the Mussolini craft retrieval took place, we may have data from 90 years ago, all the way until now. Is it valid speculation that we know who's inside of some of these craft? And I know you may not be able to answer that. But if this information is classified, like, who's in the saucers, who's inside the triangles, why would that be classified? It's not sources and methods." Lue: "Exactly right. That's my concern. You can only classify information to protect sources and methods, and you cannot...it's illegal to classify information just because something is embarrassing." (I tried again. 🙂) Murgia: "Do we have any idea who's inside some of these craft?" Lue: "Uhh, you know, I prefer not to answer that question right now simply because, umm, I don't have a good response for that. I think we've got a lot of ideas, and I think there's a lot of anecdotal information out there, but at the end of the day, we still don't know entirely what we're dealing with and that's problematic." (We'd all like to know how Brown and the others came to form these opinions about Us and "Them." Did the alleged comments from Lue in 2021 have anything to do with it? Did any of them read about that? Is any of this true? Again, I don't know. But if it IS, I'd say it would constitute a BOMBSHELL. And I rarely use that (overused) word.)](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2094684600530612451/amplify_video_thumb/2094612914275807232/img/ZFaAC5u3EJ3TN779.jpg)
"Triangles are a result of reverse engineering and sometimes piloted by 'them' and other times piloted by 'us AND them.'" 👽🤝👨🏻 Agreements, and Humans Working Alongside Non-Humans? 🛸▽👽 (This is relatively interesting, and I think you guys are going to like it. It's a little bit long. First, Matt on with Jesse and the clip below.) Matthew Brown (Matthew): "At this point in time, it's possible that, you know, the United States and others have some sort of derivative technology that looks like the big, black triangle, right? There's that famous NIDS study done in the, I think, late '90s or early 2000s where they correlate triangle sightings to naval bases in the United States." ~Lacatski!~ (I can't write about triangles without including the words of Dr. James Lacatski on Weaponized, with George Knapp and Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell. Lacatski ran the AAWSAP UFO program for the DIA.) Corbell: "We hear about all these people on military bases seeing triangles, and you're doing this study, AAWSAP, to try to figure out the physics of how to do that. Do you think it's already been achieved by the U.S. government, or it hasn't, and that's why AAWSAP had a lot of value." Lacatski: "It hasn't been achieved to its full extent." ~D'Amato~ Dick D'Amato was a longtime (18 years) senior staffer for Senate Democratic Leader Robert C. Byrd of West Virginia.) "Dick D'Amato has returned from Belgium where he met with Colonel De Brouwer, a 'very interesting fellow.' Dick’s conclusion, again, is that the triangular objects are very plain human craft. ~Jacques Vallée's Forbidden Science Volume 4 - November 1992 ~ Brown: "So either, what's going on is, you know, there's some sort of recurring exchange or...and use of our facilities by whatever is piloting these big black triangles. Or, we have some sort of derivative technology ourselves that operate from these bases. "Jeff Nuccetelli (Jeff Nuccetelli) also described, you know, a big , black triangle coming out of the Pacific Ocean, flying into Vandenberg, basically hovering over the runway at Vandenberg Air Force Base and then disappearing." ~ Nuccetelli at the Congressional Hearing: "I talked to five shaken witnesses who described a massive triangular craft, larger than a football field, that hovered silently for about 45 seconds over their entry-control point before shooting away at impossible speed." ~ Jesse Michels - Jesse Michels: "Dylan Borland, also at Langley in 2012." Brown: "Exactly." ~ Dylan Borland at the Congressional Hearing: "At approximately 01 30, I saw an, approximately, 100-foot equilateral triangle take off from near the NASA hangar on the base." ~ Michels: "He sees this triangular craft, seemingly, kind of come out of, or maybe it was hovering around a NASA hangar at the Air Force base, and then it flies at his head. And then it flies off." ~My Tweet from October 2025~~~ Daniel Gockerell on Weaponized, and My Comments 2006, Eglin AFB... Murgia 2025: "This sounds similar to what Dylan Borland says he saw at Langley AFB. If this stuff is so secret, why do they seem so lax in allowing others, who are not cleared, to see it? "If this craft exists... "Is it ours, that we developed own our own? "Is it craft that we constructed and reverse engineered, based, in part, on technology of unknown origin that we have acquired? "Is it a craft of unknown origin that we acquired and learned how to fly? "Are 'they' working with us and showing us how to fly 'their' craft?" ~ Daniel Gockerell: "I step outside, and I look to my left...and I see hovering, about 15 to 20 feet off the ground, this giant, maybe 300 or so feet in length (size of a football field. ~Joe), aircraft. "This just goes straight up and it's dead quiet, nothing, not a sound. I could hear the buzzing from the generator lights, right? So, this gets about to the canopy, like, height, a little over the canopy, and does a slight bank, and takes off. "This aircraft, when it banks, I can see that it's a perfect triangle, and it's gigantic, and it has a white light at each apex of the triangle and a large, white light in the center. And it takes off, and it zips out of sight. I mean, Mach something we don't know." Full transcript and video clip... ~End Gockerell Transcript~ (And let's not forgot my friend, Michael Via, who says he saw a "majestic," silent black triangle in 1992 in the Persian Gulf. Watch him talk about it here. ⬇️) ~ Brown: "Yeah, I'd be pretty freaked out if that happened to me. Yeah, so, you know, these are all examples of the United States having some sort of relationship with these craft, whether it's our own, gifted tech, or truly a third party, can only speculate. But, you know, I have some good guesses." Michels: "What's your best guess?" Brown: "That there is an exchange or some sort of arrangement with whatever is piloting the black triangles that are not ours? I believe we do have a derivative version at this point, but that is, again, derived from the real thing. And the real thing, there is some sort of ongoing contact and communication, clearly, not just the United States, but other governments as well. That's my opinion." (An agreement between some aspect of our government and an anomalous intelligence that flies the triangles that are NOT our reverse engineered craft? Are there multiple governments in contact with a non-human intelligence and working side-by-side with "them"?) Michels: "And when it flies in the vicinity, there's like, some sort of download that occurs. There's like a transmission of information." Brown: "That's what some people have reported. Again, I did not come across official information. Well, I did not come across information on that in the Immaculate-Constellation briefing." (In other words, Brown is suggesting that he may have come across information about that from sources other than the Immaculate Constellation files.) Michels: "Okay, all right. We'll read between the lines there." ~ (Murgia 2026: Now the interesting part. Does anybody remember when I shared this from Jeremy McGowan? I have posts about it that go back to 2021. This one is from 2024 and I edited it very lightly for grammar and clarity.) Murgia 2024: "A few years ago, in some private group, [Jeremy McGowan] said he was at Lue's place in Wyoming. "Someone shared his comments with me and here they are..." McGowan: "From Lue's mouth to my face while I was at his place for a week back in January [of 2021]. Lue (allegedly): "We know who's in the saucers. We know who is in the triangles. We don't have a clue who is in the Tic Tacs." (I asked a source about that and they said the information (in those three sentences) was accurate. But there's no evidence to back it up so, as with everything here, remain skeptical. More on what Lue allegedly told McGowan in 2021... 👇🏼 ) Q from a Group DM: "So saucers and triangles are terrestrial and Tic Tac aren't?" McGowan: "Not exactly. Saucers are 'ultra-terrestrial.' Triangles are a result of reverse engineering and sometimes piloted by 'them' and other times piloted by 'us AND them.' And the Tic Tacs are a complete enigma." ~ Murgia 2024: "Are triangular UFOs sometimes piloted by us and them, with them being NHI? Do some NHI work alongside us in classified programs? I don't know." ~End 2024 Tweet~ (Murgia 2026: That source who told me those first three sentences were accurate? They backed down from that a year or so later. Did they misunderstand what I was originally asking? Or, did they realize they shouldn't have shared that with me because it was "sensitive" and they wanted to do some damage control? I don't know. I also put out a long tweet a few years ago about OG remote viewer, Lyn Buchanan, talking about seeing what he thought were non-humans working alongside humans.) Buchanan: "I'm 𝑠𝑎𝑦𝑖𝑛𝑔 that I have seen extraterrestrials working 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ humans in black op areas. In human, black op areas." You can read the full post here: ~ (Murgia 2026: Here are the names of folks who have spoken about possible agreements between human governments and a non-human intelligence, and/or...Us working with "Them." David Grusch Lue Elizondo (allegedly, since it's second hand) Dylan Borland Matthew Brown Lenval Logan - Try.ThePhenom.App (A month or so ago, on a podcast, he said someone told him to look into "agreements," but he didn't say who told him.) Lyn Buchanan And, a contact of mine who brought it up out of the blue a few months ago. It caught me off guard. 👀 Several years ago, in an interview with Project Unity, Sean Cahill (who was there when McGowan spent time at Lue's in 2021) was asked about the "we-know-who's-in-the-saucers" claim. He said, "That's bullsh*t... That is the outline of a fiction story." I'm not so sure. One more thing: I asked Lue about it when he did a Clubhouse event in July of 2021.) Murgia: "If we believe that the Mussolini craft retrieval took place, we may have data from 90 years ago, all the way until now. Is it valid speculation that we know who's inside of some of these craft? And I know you may not be able to answer that. But if this information is classified, like, who's in the saucers, who's inside the triangles, why would that be classified? It's not sources and methods." Lue: "Exactly right. That's my concern. You can only classify information to protect sources and methods, and you cannot...it's illegal to classify information just because something is embarrassing." (I tried again. 🙂) Murgia: "Do we have any idea who's inside some of these craft?" Lue: "Uhh, you know, I prefer not to answer that question right now simply because, umm, I don't have a good response for that. I think we've got a lot of ideas, and I think there's a lot of anecdotal information out there, but at the end of the day, we still don't know entirely what we're dealing with and that's problematic." (We'd all like to know how Brown and the others came to form these opinions about Us and "Them." Did the alleged comments from Lue in 2021 have anything to do with it? Did any of them read about that? Is any of this true? Again, I don't know. But if it IS, I'd say it would constitute a BOMBSHELL. And I rarely use that (overused) word.)
Joe Murgia38,441 views • 9 days ago
"You are so lucky. You could have been killed. You don't know who those guys are?" ☢️🛸 The Day We Almost Lost George Knapp But Also Lured a UFO 🛸☢️ (I doubt you'll see anybody show you this video and make the connection to what Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell said today on Weaponized. And we have a new claim: The guys who could have (in theory) killed George Knapp allegedly lured a UFO (or UFOs), just by doing their job that day.) How to Lure a UFO: "Weapons or nuclear fuel being moved around." Corbell Today: "You used to chase those armored nuclear vehicles in Las Vegas, and I got a call from one of the drivers who said, 'Oh, when George Knapp was going behind us and did that news report, it completely changed our protocols of what we had to do. It rewrote the manual.' "But you had heard about these trucks and about how moving them, these nukes, would sometimes create or stimulate a UAP response. This individual that called me to complain to me about you, affirmed that to me." ~ (When I interviewed Lue Elizondo in March of 2022, we had this exchange...) Murgia: "Baiting and luring UFOs. You mentioned it on 𝗖𝗥𝗜𝗦𝗧𝗜𝗡𝗔 𝗚𝗢𝗠𝗘𝗭' show...how you successfully did that in AATIP. "Somebody I know, a source, said, 'The way we attract and coax UAP has to do with nuclear power; nuclear weapon sites; deployed weapons; weapons or nuclear fuel being moved around; weapons being manufactured; nuclear fuel being manufactured; and manufacturing sites...and that attracts them.' To me, that sounds like AI. It seems like it's reacting to something automatically." Lue: "Your friend seems to be very well informed." Watch the story... ⬇️⬇️⬇️
Joe Murgia29,045 views • 7 days ago
![👽 Did Grusch See Footage of Live Aliens? 👽 "Grusch has seen evidence that will leave you slack-jawed when you hear it." ~JF 😶 What Left Congress Speechless, and Staffers with Their Eyes Popping Out of Their Heads? 😱 ~ "Examine biological evidence of living or deceased non-human intelligence." ~Burlison Proposed Legislation (I'm gonna break all of this down and give you my speculation on what left Fox with his jaw on the floor, members of Congress speechless, and their senior staffers with their eyes popping out of their heads.) ~ James Fox: " Probably about two weeks ago (late May), we were having meetings on The Hill with members of Congress. We brought in a PR firm, 42 West, and we were having a meeting with staff members, bipartisan. We had Rep. Anna Paulina Luna, Rep. Tim Burchett Press Office, Rep. Eric Burlison. We had a representative from Congressman Jared Moskowitz's office. We had a number of Chiefs of Staff (top staffer for a specific member of Congress), like, present." (Don't really know why they needed a public relations firm in attendance, but if it helps them with advice on how to handle this, so be it. Just know: it appears like members of that PR firm know what Grusch said, and we don't.) Fox: "And, I can't reveal what was said. I thought it was gonna be said at the actual event that we had yesterday (June 9th) in DC with Mr. Grusch." (Don't be mad at Fox for keeping his word to Grusch and not sharing what was said in that private meeting. But I don't blame people for being annoyed that Grusch shared this information six or so weeks ago and we still don't know what he said in that room.) Fox: "Then, what Mr. Grusch revealed to all of us, what he had seen with his own eyes, left the room speechless. It drew the oxygen out of the room. I looked at everybody in that room, and their eyeballs were popping out. My jaw was on the floor. Like, I simply couldn't believe what he'd seen with his own eyes. Like, I can't wait for it to come out. "So I asked Mr. Grusch today, 'Can I talk about what I heard?' And he's like, 'No, but I will be addressing it very soon.'" (Like I said, it's almost been one month now (June 12) since Fox said this, so what does "very soon" mean? Was Grusch supposed to share this information on CNN with Jake Tapper last week but it didn't happen because that interview was, reportedly (Fox told us), postponed?) Fox: "So that's where we stand right now. But I can tell you, Mr. Grusch has seen evidence that will leave you slack-jawed when you hear it. It's coming, it's coming." (We heard that Gruch's Op/Ed was coming soon and that was 2.5 years ago. It never happened. So, I don't blame people for being skeptical about this. If Grusch hasn't told us by this time next week, I propose someone (a member of Congress) who was in that room just tell us. That's fair, right? Total transparency from our elected representatives?) ~ Fox: "Mr. Grusch is legitimately concerned about his personal safety. He's coming out with it, I promise you, this is coming out. He assured me today that he will address this issue to the general public very soon, in the near future." (I'm glad Grusch told a room full of people what he saw, as that may offer him some protection from people who allegedly want him to stop talking.) Fox: "So I can't speak to what he's gonna say, but I'm just telling you from what I heard out of his mouth, sitting in an office of a member of Congress? And everybody (Fox laughs) in the room, you could have heard a pin drop." Clayton Morris: "Could you give us a hint? Is it related to craft? Can you maybe dance around it a little bit? I want to say, 'You're killing me, Smalls (laughs).'" Fox: "Yeah, so if you can imagine, if you know about 'Moment of Contact,' that involves captured non-human intelligent beings. Think about that for a minute. Think about that case. I heard it out of his mouth, and I can tell you, I was in the room. And I looked around the room, and I'm looking at these young, like, guys in their 20s, you know, the staff guys? And their eyeballs were popping out of their head. My jaw was on the floor. I couldn't believe it." (There's a reason why I included that quote (living or deceased non-human intelligence) from the new Burlison/Carson/Crane legislation at the top of this tweet: At the very least, I'm confident Grusch told them that he saw photos of dead non-human beings. Bodies. But what about evidence of LIVING non-humans, aka aliens of unknown origin? More on that at the end. Fox: "My jaw was on the floor. I couldn't believe it." (Would Grusch saying he saw photos of craft and dead non-humans have that type of effect on Fox? Seems like that's something he would have expected to hear.) ~ Fox: "It was an [out of] body experience when I heard that. But I can tell you...the impression I got, was that he felt a little more protected to talk about this because of President Trump's directive to release the files, and that this... Again, this is my speculation, okay? This is not what Mr. Grusch said. "I got the impression that he was much more relaxed - even though he was still not fully relaxed - because of President Trump's directive to release these files. And that it was something that he had seen during his official investigations just within the last few years." (Imagine how much more relaxed Grusch (and others) would feel if we had an actual Executive Order from Trump with strong language to protect whistleblowers?) Fox: "And that it...I think it had an extremely profound impact on his life when he saw this evidence that he described. Again I'm leaving it right there. I've been talking with Republicans, and they said if Joe Rogan tweets about this, that the President will hear it, And I can't overstate the significance of that." (Why hasn't Rogan already done that? No excuse. Fox has been on Rogan and I'm sure he has Joe's contact information. Make it happen.) Fox: "We need people. We're not asking for money, we're not asking to get on your show, we're just asking, Mr. President, please, as many people as possible, release the files that should not be associated with national security. And that's the alien or non-human sentient beings. That's it." ~~~ (I'm going to speculate on what Grusch may have said in that room.) Fox: "I think it had an extremely profound impact on [Grusch's] life when he saw this evidence that he described." (Grusch has said he started out as a skeptic when he started looking into this. If he was shown what he felt were photos of non-human bodies, I think that might be enough to have an, "extremely profound impact on his life." Depending on exactly what those photos showed, of course.) In "Moment of Contact," Eric Davis had this exchange with Fox: James Fox: "Put me wherever you were when you got to see photographs of crash retrieval and documents. What did that feel like?" Dr. Eric Davis: "That was startling, when I actually see recorded evidence with my own eyes. Photographs, reports, and whatnot. That took it to a higher level, that kicked it up several notches of reality. And that made it very clear that this reality is very hard, very physical, very real. "And this type of evidence, you can't come by in the open literature, it's not public, it's classified. And I can't discuss what it was, but I can tell you, yeah, it's a crash retrieval, there's a craft, and there's alien bodies. That's all I can say about it." Fox: "You swear on your life that you saw those pictures?" Davis: "Oh, I swear on my life, and everybody's...my children's life, so (laughs). Yeah, I'm absolutely telling you the truth. I saw the evidence, and it's stark! I can't tell you the exact number, because it's classified, but I'll just say, there's a few dozen total retrievals." Full exchange with video... ~~~ As I said in my other post, I think Davis, Semivan, Puthoff, Kelleher, Grusch, Lacatski, Stratton, aka The AAWSAP Gang (I just made that up), may have seen the same evidence of photos and reports. Has Grusch seen more than that? I don't know. In 2025, Davis said this... Burlison: "Can you comment on whatever species have been piloting these craft? Are they largish? Are they multiple species? What was their size, and how many are usually on a craft?" Davis: "They're typically the multiple species people are familiar with. The Greys, the Nordics. People have talked about Reptilians and Insectoids. It's not that they're Reptilian or Insectoid, it's that they resemble, to the participant, a reptile, or insect type. A humanoid, because they have this...a hand, and four limbs, and a torso, so..." Burlison: "Large? Small?" Davis: "Human size, human scale." Burlison: "How many are in a crew?" Davis: "Well, the group, well, the Greys I'm familiar with from investigating the crash at Corona, which is misnamed the crash at Roswell. It's not the crash at Roswell, it's the crash at Corona, New Mexico. Those were Greys, those were four-foot tall. And the Nordics are typically human-sized, probably...I've heard five, six-feet tall. And same with the people who mislabel Reptilian and Insectoid. They're roughly that height, too. I haven't heard anything about anything seven or eight feet or nine-foot tall, of that nature." Full post with video... ~ And this past Sunday, Davis said this to The Good Trouble Show with Matt Ford... Davis: "I can say to you guys that there are a minimum of four different alien species. The credibility of that ranges on the spectrum from no credibility to high credibility. The high credibility is the classified part." Full post: My Final Thoughts (Based on everything Davis has shared, it seems he saw classified photos of what appeared to him to be non-human craft and photos that appeared to show dead non-humans (bodies) with enough detail that he could see that some resembled reptiles and others resembled insects. Were there also photos of Greys and beings that looked human (Nordic)? I don't know. These images of non-humans would fall into what Davis deemed "high credibility" and "the classified part.") Davis: "I saw the evidence, and it's stark!" (If Davis saw close-up photos that showed details of beings that looked like Reptilians and Mantids, I'd say that qualifies as stark!) Back to what Fox said... Fox: "Then, what Mr. Grusch revealed to all of us, what he had seen with his own eyes, left the room speechless. It drew the oxygen out of the room. I looked at everybody in that room, and their eyeballs were popping out. My jaw was on the floor. Like, I simply couldn't believe what he'd seen with his own eyes." (I think what caused that reaction was Grusch describing seeing close-up photos of different types of non-human beings. Maybe.) However, Fox also said this: "...if you can imagine, if you know about 'Moment of Contact,' that involves captured non-human intelligent beings (This is the Varginha, Brazil case. ~Joe). Think about that for a minute. Think about that case. I heard it out of his mouth, and I can tell you, I was in the room." (The biggest CLAIM in that film and from that case is that a live, non-human being was captured and that Dr. Italo saw video of it, and then stood next to it for a few minutes when it was in the hospital, in a bed, being cared for by another doctor. Did Grusch say he saw evidence (photos or videos) of a live being that appeared to be non-human? Joe Rogan asked him that in his November 2023 interview... Grusch: "Once you realize the phenomenon's real, then you realize we've recovered artifacts and, you know, biologics or, you know, dead pilots, if you will, even though it's kind of creepy to think about in your world view. You don't think they were ever, you know, alive sometimes, too, right? And I'll leave it at that, only because, you know, that is something the President and his cabinet need to disclose this in a controlled manner." (He was either hinting that he's seen them alive or that them being alive and on this planet is a huge deal and not his responsibility to announce. I think it's the latter.) Rogan: "Are there discussions of interactions with live beings?" Grusch: "Uhh, there was some water-cooler talk about that kind of thing." Rogan: "But that's it?" Grusch: "But, you know, I don't even wanna get into it because it's like, uh, there was some details provided to me but it's like, it's secondary and I don't know if that's like, the telephone game and I don't know if it was hyperbolized in any way...um, you know, in the break room, so to speak. So I just... I'm so anal about making sure what I say is accurate...I don't, you know, I don't know." (Based on what he said there, it seems like he has NOT seen any evidence of live beings. If he now comes out and says that he has, it will seem like a flip flop. So, I'm gonna go with Grusch said he saw photos of non-human bodies and they were of the different types/species that Dr. Eric Davis referenced. One more flashback to what Davis said in that public, congressional briefing in May of 2025.) Davis: "It's not that they're Reptilian or Insectoid, it's that they resemble, to the participant, a reptile, or insect type." (That sounds like someone who has seen exactly what they look like, via photos.) Final point... "Examine biological evidence of living or deceased non-human intelligence." ~Burlison Proposed Legislation (That language was in the original UAPD Disclosure Act co-sponsored by Senators Schumer and Rounds, and four other senators. Why put that language in there if you haven't heard credible reports of living or deceased (bodies) non-human intelligence? Are there stories of living, non-humans on this planet? Yes, and I'll leave you with one of them.) ) (Just to make it clear: I think Grusch will say that he saw clear photos of different types of non-human bodies and some looked like reptiles and others looked like insects. It would be amazing to hear Grusch say he saw video or film of living beings, but I don't expect that. However...this still bothers me... Would Grusch describing seeing photos of craft and different kinds of dead aliens leave veteran-of-the-UFO-field, James Fox, with his jaw on the floor? I guess we're gonna see. And hopefully soon.)](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2075447649453691237/amplify_video_thumb/2075447438866006017/img/nXEwcYZHCI2fyrrG.jpg)
👽 Did Grusch See Footage of Live Aliens? 👽 "Grusch has seen evidence that will leave you slack-jawed when you hear it." ~JF 😶 What Left Congress Speechless, and Staffers with Their Eyes Popping Out of Their Heads? 😱 ~ "Examine biological evidence of living or deceased non-human intelligence." ~Burlison Proposed Legislation (I'm gonna break all of this down and give you my speculation on what left Fox with his jaw on the floor, members of Congress speechless, and their senior staffers with their eyes popping out of their heads.) ~ James Fox: " Probably about two weeks ago (late May), we were having meetings on The Hill with members of Congress. We brought in a PR firm, 42 West, and we were having a meeting with staff members, bipartisan. We had Rep. Anna Paulina Luna, Rep. Tim Burchett Press Office, Rep. Eric Burlison. We had a representative from Congressman Jared Moskowitz's office. We had a number of Chiefs of Staff (top staffer for a specific member of Congress), like, present." (Don't really know why they needed a public relations firm in attendance, but if it helps them with advice on how to handle this, so be it. Just know: it appears like members of that PR firm know what Grusch said, and we don't.) Fox: "And, I can't reveal what was said. I thought it was gonna be said at the actual event that we had yesterday (June 9th) in DC with Mr. Grusch." (Don't be mad at Fox for keeping his word to Grusch and not sharing what was said in that private meeting. But I don't blame people for being annoyed that Grusch shared this information six or so weeks ago and we still don't know what he said in that room.) Fox: "Then, what Mr. Grusch revealed to all of us, what he had seen with his own eyes, left the room speechless. It drew the oxygen out of the room. I looked at everybody in that room, and their eyeballs were popping out. My jaw was on the floor. Like, I simply couldn't believe what he'd seen with his own eyes. Like, I can't wait for it to come out. "So I asked Mr. Grusch today, 'Can I talk about what I heard?' And he's like, 'No, but I will be addressing it very soon.'" (Like I said, it's almost been one month now (June 12) since Fox said this, so what does "very soon" mean? Was Grusch supposed to share this information on CNN with Jake Tapper last week but it didn't happen because that interview was, reportedly (Fox told us), postponed?) Fox: "So that's where we stand right now. But I can tell you, Mr. Grusch has seen evidence that will leave you slack-jawed when you hear it. It's coming, it's coming." (We heard that Gruch's Op/Ed was coming soon and that was 2.5 years ago. It never happened. So, I don't blame people for being skeptical about this. If Grusch hasn't told us by this time next week, I propose someone (a member of Congress) who was in that room just tell us. That's fair, right? Total transparency from our elected representatives?) ~ Fox: "Mr. Grusch is legitimately concerned about his personal safety. He's coming out with it, I promise you, this is coming out. He assured me today that he will address this issue to the general public very soon, in the near future." (I'm glad Grusch told a room full of people what he saw, as that may offer him some protection from people who allegedly want him to stop talking.) Fox: "So I can't speak to what he's gonna say, but I'm just telling you from what I heard out of his mouth, sitting in an office of a member of Congress? And everybody (Fox laughs) in the room, you could have heard a pin drop." Clayton Morris: "Could you give us a hint? Is it related to craft? Can you maybe dance around it a little bit? I want to say, 'You're killing me, Smalls (laughs).'" Fox: "Yeah, so if you can imagine, if you know about 'Moment of Contact,' that involves captured non-human intelligent beings. Think about that for a minute. Think about that case. I heard it out of his mouth, and I can tell you, I was in the room. And I looked around the room, and I'm looking at these young, like, guys in their 20s, you know, the staff guys? And their eyeballs were popping out of their head. My jaw was on the floor. I couldn't believe it." (There's a reason why I included that quote (living or deceased non-human intelligence) from the new Burlison/Carson/Crane legislation at the top of this tweet: At the very least, I'm confident Grusch told them that he saw photos of dead non-human beings. Bodies. But what about evidence of LIVING non-humans, aka aliens of unknown origin? More on that at the end. Fox: "My jaw was on the floor. I couldn't believe it." (Would Grusch saying he saw photos of craft and dead non-humans have that type of effect on Fox? Seems like that's something he would have expected to hear.) ~ Fox: "It was an [out of] body experience when I heard that. But I can tell you...the impression I got, was that he felt a little more protected to talk about this because of President Trump's directive to release the files, and that this... Again, this is my speculation, okay? This is not what Mr. Grusch said. "I got the impression that he was much more relaxed - even though he was still not fully relaxed - because of President Trump's directive to release these files. And that it was something that he had seen during his official investigations just within the last few years." (Imagine how much more relaxed Grusch (and others) would feel if we had an actual Executive Order from Trump with strong language to protect whistleblowers?) Fox: "And that it...I think it had an extremely profound impact on his life when he saw this evidence that he described. Again I'm leaving it right there. I've been talking with Republicans, and they said if Joe Rogan tweets about this, that the President will hear it, And I can't overstate the significance of that." (Why hasn't Rogan already done that? No excuse. Fox has been on Rogan and I'm sure he has Joe's contact information. Make it happen.) Fox: "We need people. We're not asking for money, we're not asking to get on your show, we're just asking, Mr. President, please, as many people as possible, release the files that should not be associated with national security. And that's the alien or non-human sentient beings. That's it." ~~~ (I'm going to speculate on what Grusch may have said in that room.) Fox: "I think it had an extremely profound impact on [Grusch's] life when he saw this evidence that he described." (Grusch has said he started out as a skeptic when he started looking into this. If he was shown what he felt were photos of non-human bodies, I think that might be enough to have an, "extremely profound impact on his life." Depending on exactly what those photos showed, of course.) In "Moment of Contact," Eric Davis had this exchange with Fox: James Fox: "Put me wherever you were when you got to see photographs of crash retrieval and documents. What did that feel like?" Dr. Eric Davis: "That was startling, when I actually see recorded evidence with my own eyes. Photographs, reports, and whatnot. That took it to a higher level, that kicked it up several notches of reality. And that made it very clear that this reality is very hard, very physical, very real. "And this type of evidence, you can't come by in the open literature, it's not public, it's classified. And I can't discuss what it was, but I can tell you, yeah, it's a crash retrieval, there's a craft, and there's alien bodies. That's all I can say about it." Fox: "You swear on your life that you saw those pictures?" Davis: "Oh, I swear on my life, and everybody's...my children's life, so (laughs). Yeah, I'm absolutely telling you the truth. I saw the evidence, and it's stark! I can't tell you the exact number, because it's classified, but I'll just say, there's a few dozen total retrievals." Full exchange with video... ~~~ As I said in my other post, I think Davis, Semivan, Puthoff, Kelleher, Grusch, Lacatski, Stratton, aka The AAWSAP Gang (I just made that up), may have seen the same evidence of photos and reports. Has Grusch seen more than that? I don't know. In 2025, Davis said this... Burlison: "Can you comment on whatever species have been piloting these craft? Are they largish? Are they multiple species? What was their size, and how many are usually on a craft?" Davis: "They're typically the multiple species people are familiar with. The Greys, the Nordics. People have talked about Reptilians and Insectoids. It's not that they're Reptilian or Insectoid, it's that they resemble, to the participant, a reptile, or insect type. A humanoid, because they have this...a hand, and four limbs, and a torso, so..." Burlison: "Large? Small?" Davis: "Human size, human scale." Burlison: "How many are in a crew?" Davis: "Well, the group, well, the Greys I'm familiar with from investigating the crash at Corona, which is misnamed the crash at Roswell. It's not the crash at Roswell, it's the crash at Corona, New Mexico. Those were Greys, those were four-foot tall. And the Nordics are typically human-sized, probably...I've heard five, six-feet tall. And same with the people who mislabel Reptilian and Insectoid. They're roughly that height, too. I haven't heard anything about anything seven or eight feet or nine-foot tall, of that nature." Full post with video... ~ And this past Sunday, Davis said this to The Good Trouble Show with Matt Ford... Davis: "I can say to you guys that there are a minimum of four different alien species. The credibility of that ranges on the spectrum from no credibility to high credibility. The high credibility is the classified part." Full post: My Final Thoughts (Based on everything Davis has shared, it seems he saw classified photos of what appeared to him to be non-human craft and photos that appeared to show dead non-humans (bodies) with enough detail that he could see that some resembled reptiles and others resembled insects. Were there also photos of Greys and beings that looked human (Nordic)? I don't know. These images of non-humans would fall into what Davis deemed "high credibility" and "the classified part.") Davis: "I saw the evidence, and it's stark!" (If Davis saw close-up photos that showed details of beings that looked like Reptilians and Mantids, I'd say that qualifies as stark!) Back to what Fox said... Fox: "Then, what Mr. Grusch revealed to all of us, what he had seen with his own eyes, left the room speechless. It drew the oxygen out of the room. I looked at everybody in that room, and their eyeballs were popping out. My jaw was on the floor. Like, I simply couldn't believe what he'd seen with his own eyes." (I think what caused that reaction was Grusch describing seeing close-up photos of different types of non-human beings. Maybe.) However, Fox also said this: "...if you can imagine, if you know about 'Moment of Contact,' that involves captured non-human intelligent beings (This is the Varginha, Brazil case. ~Joe). Think about that for a minute. Think about that case. I heard it out of his mouth, and I can tell you, I was in the room." (The biggest CLAIM in that film and from that case is that a live, non-human being was captured and that Dr. Italo saw video of it, and then stood next to it for a few minutes when it was in the hospital, in a bed, being cared for by another doctor. Did Grusch say he saw evidence (photos or videos) of a live being that appeared to be non-human? Joe Rogan asked him that in his November 2023 interview... Grusch: "Once you realize the phenomenon's real, then you realize we've recovered artifacts and, you know, biologics or, you know, dead pilots, if you will, even though it's kind of creepy to think about in your world view. You don't think they were ever, you know, alive sometimes, too, right? And I'll leave it at that, only because, you know, that is something the President and his cabinet need to disclose this in a controlled manner." (He was either hinting that he's seen them alive or that them being alive and on this planet is a huge deal and not his responsibility to announce. I think it's the latter.) Rogan: "Are there discussions of interactions with live beings?" Grusch: "Uhh, there was some water-cooler talk about that kind of thing." Rogan: "But that's it?" Grusch: "But, you know, I don't even wanna get into it because it's like, uh, there was some details provided to me but it's like, it's secondary and I don't know if that's like, the telephone game and I don't know if it was hyperbolized in any way...um, you know, in the break room, so to speak. So I just... I'm so anal about making sure what I say is accurate...I don't, you know, I don't know." (Based on what he said there, it seems like he has NOT seen any evidence of live beings. If he now comes out and says that he has, it will seem like a flip flop. So, I'm gonna go with Grusch said he saw photos of non-human bodies and they were of the different types/species that Dr. Eric Davis referenced. One more flashback to what Davis said in that public, congressional briefing in May of 2025.) Davis: "It's not that they're Reptilian or Insectoid, it's that they resemble, to the participant, a reptile, or insect type." (That sounds like someone who has seen exactly what they look like, via photos.) Final point... "Examine biological evidence of living or deceased non-human intelligence." ~Burlison Proposed Legislation (That language was in the original UAPD Disclosure Act co-sponsored by Senators Schumer and Rounds, and four other senators. Why put that language in there if you haven't heard credible reports of living or deceased (bodies) non-human intelligence? Are there stories of living, non-humans on this planet? Yes, and I'll leave you with one of them.) ) (Just to make it clear: I think Grusch will say that he saw clear photos of different types of non-human bodies and some looked like reptiles and others looked like insects. It would be amazing to hear Grusch say he saw video or film of living beings, but I don't expect that. However...this still bothers me... Would Grusch describing seeing photos of craft and different kinds of dead aliens leave veteran-of-the-UFO-field, James Fox, with his jaw on the floor? I guess we're gonna see. And hopefully soon.)
Joe Murgia204,314 views • 2 months ago
🇮🇱 🇺🇸 New Bigelow 👩🏻🚀🛸 "We had three Israeli spies in our aerospace company. Seven of our telephones were bugged, including mine...in locked offices. The FBI was involved. After about a month and a half...I said, 'I have to terminate these people.'" ~Robert Bigelow
Joe Murgia75,248 views • 22 days ago
![🚨 This is important... 🚨 "If you don't clear [Grusch's] record and demonstrate that you're able to make him right. You're sending a message to everybody else...that you're going to get punished if you come forward." ~Rep. Eric Burlison (Burlison is the only MAGA politician who's willing to call out the Trump administration like this, on the UFO topic. It's subtle, but it's there. So what happens if they don't do this for Grusch? What will Burlison say and do? To me, if they don't do this for Grusch, we'll know that the Trump administration isn't serious about Disclosure. And why is he the only MAGA pol wiling to speak like this when it comes to the Trump admin? Where are Rep. Anna Paulina Luna and Rep. Tim Burchett Press Office? We need them to speak up on these types of issues. And I'm only including a minute of what Matt Laslo got from Burlison so people can go support him by clicking on his YT videos and tweets, and subscribe to the only guy in DC who is trying to get us UAP answers from Congress on a daily basis.) Laslo: "What's up with these whispers about Grusch maybe getting his NDA waived?" Rep. Eric Burlison: "It needs to get... Well, he'll waive it. What he needs is his clearances all brought back." (Will Trump issue a SF-312 NDA waiver so Grusch can share a lot more of what he knows with the public?) Dr. Eric Davis to me in July... Davis: "Trump did NOT issue a SF-312 NDA waiver for us whistleblowers to reveal classified information to the public." ~ Laslo: "Are you talking with Stephen Miller and them about that?" Burlison: "Yes, I've been tenacious about that...because, to me, if you don't clear his record and demonstrate that you're able to make him right. You're sending a message to everybody else who might wanna come forward that you're going to get punished if you come forward." (I think we need a lot more in order for whistleblowers to feel comfortable enough to come forward, but this would be a good first step.) Laslo: "Would that be the President himself giving him that waiver? Or, what would that look like?" Burlison: "Yeah, I mean, honestly, the administration... And I've talked to them... They will readily admit that it was probably, they probably went too far with him." (Who are "they"?) Laslo: "Interesting." Burlison: "Yeah, they didn't need to make..." Laslo: "Who would admit that? FBI?" Burlison: "I'm not gonna say, because..yeah. Just out of a level of confidence.." (Great question by Laslo, as we REALLY need to know who admitted that. I'll link to the rest of the interview in the replies. They talk about the FBI, DoE, CIA, and FFRDCs.)](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2095895124970807452/amplify_video_thumb/2095894838357184512/img/aPDjWn3TYacQ1BYX.jpg)
🚨 This is important... 🚨 "If you don't clear [Grusch's] record and demonstrate that you're able to make him right. You're sending a message to everybody else...that you're going to get punished if you come forward." ~Rep. Eric Burlison (Burlison is the only MAGA politician who's willing to call out the Trump administration like this, on the UFO topic. It's subtle, but it's there. So what happens if they don't do this for Grusch? What will Burlison say and do? To me, if they don't do this for Grusch, we'll know that the Trump administration isn't serious about Disclosure. And why is he the only MAGA pol wiling to speak like this when it comes to the Trump admin? Where are Rep. Anna Paulina Luna and Rep. Tim Burchett Press Office? We need them to speak up on these types of issues. And I'm only including a minute of what Matt Laslo got from Burlison so people can go support him by clicking on his YT videos and tweets, and subscribe to the only guy in DC who is trying to get us UAP answers from Congress on a daily basis.) Laslo: "What's up with these whispers about Grusch maybe getting his NDA waived?" Rep. Eric Burlison: "It needs to get... Well, he'll waive it. What he needs is his clearances all brought back." (Will Trump issue a SF-312 NDA waiver so Grusch can share a lot more of what he knows with the public?) Dr. Eric Davis to me in July... Davis: "Trump did NOT issue a SF-312 NDA waiver for us whistleblowers to reveal classified information to the public." ~ Laslo: "Are you talking with Stephen Miller and them about that?" Burlison: "Yes, I've been tenacious about that...because, to me, if you don't clear his record and demonstrate that you're able to make him right. You're sending a message to everybody else who might wanna come forward that you're going to get punished if you come forward." (I think we need a lot more in order for whistleblowers to feel comfortable enough to come forward, but this would be a good first step.) Laslo: "Would that be the President himself giving him that waiver? Or, what would that look like?" Burlison: "Yeah, I mean, honestly, the administration... And I've talked to them... They will readily admit that it was probably, they probably went too far with him." (Who are "they"?) Laslo: "Interesting." Burlison: "Yeah, they didn't need to make..." Laslo: "Who would admit that? FBI?" Burlison: "I'm not gonna say, because..yeah. Just out of a level of confidence.." (Great question by Laslo, as we REALLY need to know who admitted that. I'll link to the rest of the interview in the replies. They talk about the FBI, DoE, CIA, and FFRDCs.)
Joe Murgia20,795 views • 5 days ago
!["I think humanity, to some level, is a resource for them." ~Matthew Brown "I think there is a very small group (of humans) that does have a good degree of fidelity on intention (of the non-humans)." ~Brown "If it's true that there has been genetic interventions on humanity at certain points in our evolution, well, I very much wanna know what is the intent behind those interventions. What is being, you know, added, removed, suppressed, or enhanced in humanity, and for what reasons?" ~Brown (Brown said this to George Knapp and Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell in May on "Weaponized." ⬇️) "I think I have a good degree of confidence that the reason they're here is us. I think life, especially sentient life, it's a precious thing. And I think, to some, it might be a resource. I think humanity, to some level, is a resource for them." ~Brown ~From Today's Event ⬇️⬇️⬇️~ Matthew Brown - Matthew: "In the short term, and in my immediate environment, I'm more concerned about humans. But yeah, to get to that next part, I think longer term, you know, I definitely am more concerned about the NHI intentions. You know that's a really broad bucket so, you know, more...you narrow it down to specific groups of them. "It seems at least some of them have been present on Earth for a very long time, but they do not maintain an open relationship with humanity, except for very-discreet encounters with leadership and humans through the sort of abduction or experiencer modalities." (I'm gonna assume that "encounters with leadership" is referring to the alleged Holloman landing.) Brown: "And those certainly, you know, while some people claim to have very positive interactions, there's a very large amount that that have the opposite, especially women, who seem to, unfortunately, you know, get the worst of it, and over a very long period of time. So, I'm very concerned about that. "If it's true that there has been genetic interventions on humanity at certain points in our evolution, well, I very much wanna know what is the intent behind those interventions. What is being, you know, added, removed, suppressed, or enhanced in humanity, and for what reasons?" (That's important: Added, removed, suppressed or enhanced. If any of that is true, this goes way beyond, "Well, they haven't blown us up so they must not have bad intentions.") Brown: "You know, I don't have answers, but that's where, you know, you know, this is a journey of discovery, right? And that's kind of where I am at, is again, what are the long term intentions of the NHI present on Earth toward towards humanity?" Leslie Kean: "Do you think there are government officials that know a lot on the classified level and beyond, that have an idea about the intention that they're just not sharing with with anyone? Or, do you think everyone is baffled by that?" Brown: "I think there is a very small group that does have a good degree of fidelity on intention, both in the U.S. government and in, you know, probably the major governments around the world. You know, I have some reason to believe that's true, as well as analysis, so it's a mix of, you know, what we would call evidence and thought. That's where I'm at." Kean: "And just to reiterate, you don't have any idea of what they may have discovered about the intention or any thoughts about what that might be? Is that correct?" Brown: "None that I would say publicly yet. You know, I want to have some degree of certainty before I share something you know serious as that." Kean: "Can you say if you think it might be sort of something that might be quote 'negative' for humanity as we go forward, or something that might be evolutionarily positive for us as a species? You have any sense of that? Of, you know, whether it's a positive or negative kind of intention? Or maybe a mixed one, depending on who we're dealing with. I don't know if you can just can say any more about that." Brown: "it's probably mixed because there seems to be at least more groups involved than just one. So, you know, it's like saying all of humanity's bad news just because you only encountered the worst aspects of humanity. You can't fall into that trap. Yeah, I'd need more data before I would feel comfortable, you know, saying it's definitely this or that." Kean: "Thank you. Yeah, I think that's the big question in everyone's mind, so many people's minds, is the intention. And so far, Jeff (Jeff Nuccetelli) says we're all here. We're still here, except for there are the individuals that have had the frightening encounters. But, you know, nothing on a mass scale has happened to harm us. So, here we are." (Harm can come in many forms. They may not have attacked us with bombs or missiles but, as Brown asked: Have they added, removed, suppressed, or enhanced anything, genetically, or otherwise, from humans? Peter Levenda has written and spoken about this on numerous occasions. Have they done anything to us that's related to consciousness? As far as if there's anybody who knows a lot more about the phenomenon (could be more than one intelligence) and its intentions than we do? I have shared my opinion on that question a few times. IMO, yes. But that's not based on any hard evidence. Does Brown have evidence on that front? Here's something that suggests someone, somewhere, knows more...) Hvbears88: "Interestingly, [Grusch] also mentioned how many people know the full scope of the phenomenon to be no more than 50 people. But it wasn't clear whether this meant 50 people currently alive or 50 people ever in history." (Have these folks read "The Document?") Retired Naval Commander Will Miller: "Through a former NSA contact of mine, I had the chance to meet with a high-level, retired, National Security Agency, senior civilian. And this gentleman, we talked about the subject of UFOs and, again, whether any government agency either had information on the subject or had interest in. And he revealed one tidbit of information I found very interesting. "He said within NSA, there was a document known only as “the document” and it was on the subject of UFOs and extraterrestrial intelligence. And it was so highly classified that only the Director himself and perhaps one or two other people were actually able to view it. Its existence was widely known, but again, very, very close hold information." Source:](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2091261057012813983/amplify_video_thumb/2091231618719686658/img/fnOgrgaS4Ov0tv0l.jpg)
"I think humanity, to some level, is a resource for them." ~Matthew Brown "I think there is a very small group (of humans) that does have a good degree of fidelity on intention (of the non-humans)." ~Brown "If it's true that there has been genetic interventions on humanity at certain points in our evolution, well, I very much wanna know what is the intent behind those interventions. What is being, you know, added, removed, suppressed, or enhanced in humanity, and for what reasons?" ~Brown (Brown said this to George Knapp and Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell in May on "Weaponized." ⬇️) "I think I have a good degree of confidence that the reason they're here is us. I think life, especially sentient life, it's a precious thing. And I think, to some, it might be a resource. I think humanity, to some level, is a resource for them." ~Brown ~From Today's Event ⬇️⬇️⬇️~ Matthew Brown - Matthew: "In the short term, and in my immediate environment, I'm more concerned about humans. But yeah, to get to that next part, I think longer term, you know, I definitely am more concerned about the NHI intentions. You know that's a really broad bucket so, you know, more...you narrow it down to specific groups of them. "It seems at least some of them have been present on Earth for a very long time, but they do not maintain an open relationship with humanity, except for very-discreet encounters with leadership and humans through the sort of abduction or experiencer modalities." (I'm gonna assume that "encounters with leadership" is referring to the alleged Holloman landing.) Brown: "And those certainly, you know, while some people claim to have very positive interactions, there's a very large amount that that have the opposite, especially women, who seem to, unfortunately, you know, get the worst of it, and over a very long period of time. So, I'm very concerned about that. "If it's true that there has been genetic interventions on humanity at certain points in our evolution, well, I very much wanna know what is the intent behind those interventions. What is being, you know, added, removed, suppressed, or enhanced in humanity, and for what reasons?" (That's important: Added, removed, suppressed or enhanced. If any of that is true, this goes way beyond, "Well, they haven't blown us up so they must not have bad intentions.") Brown: "You know, I don't have answers, but that's where, you know, you know, this is a journey of discovery, right? And that's kind of where I am at, is again, what are the long term intentions of the NHI present on Earth toward towards humanity?" Leslie Kean: "Do you think there are government officials that know a lot on the classified level and beyond, that have an idea about the intention that they're just not sharing with with anyone? Or, do you think everyone is baffled by that?" Brown: "I think there is a very small group that does have a good degree of fidelity on intention, both in the U.S. government and in, you know, probably the major governments around the world. You know, I have some reason to believe that's true, as well as analysis, so it's a mix of, you know, what we would call evidence and thought. That's where I'm at." Kean: "And just to reiterate, you don't have any idea of what they may have discovered about the intention or any thoughts about what that might be? Is that correct?" Brown: "None that I would say publicly yet. You know, I want to have some degree of certainty before I share something you know serious as that." Kean: "Can you say if you think it might be sort of something that might be quote 'negative' for humanity as we go forward, or something that might be evolutionarily positive for us as a species? You have any sense of that? Of, you know, whether it's a positive or negative kind of intention? Or maybe a mixed one, depending on who we're dealing with. I don't know if you can just can say any more about that." Brown: "it's probably mixed because there seems to be at least more groups involved than just one. So, you know, it's like saying all of humanity's bad news just because you only encountered the worst aspects of humanity. You can't fall into that trap. Yeah, I'd need more data before I would feel comfortable, you know, saying it's definitely this or that." Kean: "Thank you. Yeah, I think that's the big question in everyone's mind, so many people's minds, is the intention. And so far, Jeff (Jeff Nuccetelli) says we're all here. We're still here, except for there are the individuals that have had the frightening encounters. But, you know, nothing on a mass scale has happened to harm us. So, here we are." (Harm can come in many forms. They may not have attacked us with bombs or missiles but, as Brown asked: Have they added, removed, suppressed, or enhanced anything, genetically, or otherwise, from humans? Peter Levenda has written and spoken about this on numerous occasions. Have they done anything to us that's related to consciousness? As far as if there's anybody who knows a lot more about the phenomenon (could be more than one intelligence) and its intentions than we do? I have shared my opinion on that question a few times. IMO, yes. But that's not based on any hard evidence. Does Brown have evidence on that front? Here's something that suggests someone, somewhere, knows more...) Hvbears88: "Interestingly, [Grusch] also mentioned how many people know the full scope of the phenomenon to be no more than 50 people. But it wasn't clear whether this meant 50 people currently alive or 50 people ever in history." (Have these folks read "The Document?") Retired Naval Commander Will Miller: "Through a former NSA contact of mine, I had the chance to meet with a high-level, retired, National Security Agency, senior civilian. And this gentleman, we talked about the subject of UFOs and, again, whether any government agency either had information on the subject or had interest in. And he revealed one tidbit of information I found very interesting. "He said within NSA, there was a document known only as “the document” and it was on the subject of UFOs and extraterrestrial intelligence. And it was so highly classified that only the Director himself and perhaps one or two other people were actually able to view it. Its existence was widely known, but again, very, very close hold information." Source:
Joe Murgia53,648 views • 18 days ago
!["[UFO Disclosure will] be a little uncomfortable. There'll be some truths that [will] be a hard pill to swallow." ~Grusch New David Grusch: "There's truly anonymous signatures in the skies [and] the U.S. government understands it represents a form of sentient, non-human intelligence. I know that sounds very Star Trek, a la, you know, Gene Roddenberry and Rod's dad's Sci-Fi series, but it is true. "And I want, you know, the American public to be comforted that the Universe is teeming with life, it seems, and readily able to be explored. And the U.S. government does have a lot of information that I think will inspire Gen Alpha and Gen Z and the American populace at large. And it will be a new era. "It'll be a little uncomfortable. There'll be some truths that [will] be a hard pill to swallow, but I think it's, ultimately, a good thing to get this out there. And I think the people of the world and the American public will be very happy to understand their place in the Universe, so to speak. Without sounding too much like Carl Sagan."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2048141373950541976/amplify_video_thumb/2048139865410473984/img/8eIQzPT9VoO8Uc1p.jpg)
"[UFO Disclosure will] be a little uncomfortable. There'll be some truths that [will] be a hard pill to swallow." ~Grusch New David Grusch: "There's truly anonymous signatures in the skies [and] the U.S. government understands it represents a form of sentient, non-human intelligence. I know that sounds very Star Trek, a la, you know, Gene Roddenberry and Rod's dad's Sci-Fi series, but it is true. "And I want, you know, the American public to be comforted that the Universe is teeming with life, it seems, and readily able to be explored. And the U.S. government does have a lot of information that I think will inspire Gen Alpha and Gen Z and the American populace at large. And it will be a new era. "It'll be a little uncomfortable. There'll be some truths that [will] be a hard pill to swallow, but I think it's, ultimately, a good thing to get this out there. And I think the people of the world and the American public will be very happy to understand their place in the Universe, so to speak. Without sounding too much like Carl Sagan."
Joe Murgia335,113 views • 4 months ago
😵💫 Grusch: The U.S. Government is Aware of Non-Human, Corporeal-Bipedal, and...Sentient-Plasmoid Life 😬 Real America's Voice (RAV): "Can you confirm for us, how many species? Recent reports have said that there are perhaps four different alien species: Grays, Nordics How many species are you aware of?" David Grusch: "I certainly don't have the compendium. It's a continuum from corporeal-bipedal type life to, you know, what I would consider is like, sentient-plasmoid life. But there are there are several that the U.S. government is aware of."
Joe Murgia224,589 views • 3 months ago
(UNDISCLOSED LOCATION) 01.01.2025 The United States Africa Command submitted a report of an unidentified anomalous phenomenon to the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) consisting of two seconds of video footage from an infrared sensor aboard a U.S. military platform in 2025. The reporter did not provide any oral or written description of the observation. Video Description:00:00-00:02: A small, barely distinguishable area of contrast moves from the left side of the sensor field-of-view to the right side, exiting the scene from the bottom right quarter of the screen. This video description is provided for informational purposes only. Readers should not interpret any part of this description as reflecting an analytical judgment, investigative conclusion, or factual determination regarding the described event’s validity, nature, or significance. The video is looped for viewing purposes.
Joe Murgia280,801 views • 4 months ago
David thinks these zooms/glitches that occurred as Mr. B. was talking about family members he's lost might be some sort of afterlife communication. I noticed them as it was live and it caught my attention. I'll assume glitch. Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies (BICS), is this something you've seen before?
Joe Murgia18,406 views • 7 days ago
!["Tell us this isn't true." "They had a live being out [near Area 51]." "There were human experiments that went on." 👽🛸 Roswell: A Non-Human Craft or a Darker Secret? 🤫😶 (Transcript is shorter than clip. I don't have room to type more in this post so I'll just wait for replies.) ~ Lex Fridman: "In your book on 'Area 51,' you propose an explanation that I think some people have criticized, at the very end. That this might have been a disinformation campaign from, I guess, Stalin, that the Roswell incident was a remotely-piloted plane with a quote 'grotesque, child-sized aviator.' Just looking back at all that now, years later, what's the probability that it's true? What's the probability it's not?" Annie Jacobsen: (AJ): "So, you know, I've never revealed who that source is." Lex: "Yes." AJ: "You know that? Want me to tell you?" Lex: "Okay, who was the source?" AJ: "So, before I say anything on that, let me speak to the question that you asked, right? So, you asked me, 'What's the probability that that is still standing as an idea, 12, 13, 14 years later,' right? So, I continued to work with that source for years, afterwards. We talked about this. Look, I mean, his whole family knew it was him. And I knew his family because I was an integral part of, you know, I was at his house, met all his kids, grandkids." Lex: "And we should say, the source is the main expert advisor behind the story that it was. Maybe you can explain what the story is that your report in the book, that it was a disinformation campaign created by Stalin to cause mass hysteria in the United States. The very kind that we've been speaking about with the CIA and so on." AJ: "Yes! Predicated on the narrative of the 'War of the Worlds,' right? And the 'War of the Worlds,' when it was a radio program in the United States, made people go crazy. 'Oh, my God, we're being invaded by aliens!' Well, the government was always interested in the story and Joseph Stalin was, too. We know that from declassified documents, right? "And so, the source told me that the reason for this program, and that the real Roswell crash remains, were in fact, it was a black-propaganda hoax infiltrated, you know, or rather, predicated at this idea that you were gonna overwhelm America's early-warning, air-defense system, cause mayhem and maybe be able to attack the United States. That was the plan. And Stalin was also messing with the United States, messing with Truman, who sort of, you know, turned his back on him, right? At Potsdam. "And so, this idea, and the reason that the source is important... And unlike, you know, a lot of people, 'I saw this, I saw that, I learned that.' Was, according to the source, once it was determined that this was a hoax and that Stalin was able to get a craft over the United States, and it crashed. And it had, you know, people inside of it, they were people that were sort of deformed and meant...surgically altered to look like aliens. "The United States government decided that it needed to know what on earth that was all about, and if it was possible for us to have the same program. This, according to this source, right? And so, it sounds preposterous, and if it was just someone saying, 'I...,' you might say, 'Well, it's ridiculous, get them onto another subject.' But, the difference was, is this source, who was very well placed, and friends with all of the other 75 people, you know, told me this as a confession, right? A real, tearful confession, because what he said is he was involved in the American program to do the same thing. And people died, because there were human experiments that went on." "And I write about this in the last 12 pages of 'Area 51.' It was an explosive, you know, revelation, and I felt very confident in writing this because the source wanted it written. Why? Because he said, 'I'm dedicated to my country. I know about being committed to national security, and this kind of thing must never happen. And if you give people too much power, they will take advantage of it.' And he wanted it on the record. "And his wife of 60 years did not know until after the book published. Nor did His children, okay? So, after the book published, I was called to his house and sat there with his family. And they said, 'Tell us this isn't true.' And he said, 'It is true,' right? (We need a tape of this confession or...for his family to confirm they heard this from him.) AJ: "Now that source is Al O'Donnell, who is the nuclear-weapons engineer who armed, wired and fired 186 nuclear weapons, okay? So if you wanna talk about someone..." Lex: "Woooooow." AJ: "You're the first person I've told that on the record, but it's kind of about time." Lex: "Woooooow. Well, you received a lot of criticism over this story, and it confused me why, because it's...given the context of everything you've described with the CIA and other intelligence agencies, it is reasonable that such action would be taken. AJ: "And, the source is extraordinarily credible, right? If you wanted to take the position, 'Well, that person isn't very reliable,' then you have to ask yourself, 'Why did they have Top-Secret clearances that are higher than any in the United States whatsoever?' Because he was responsible for arming nuclear bombs. He was called the trigger man. "And by the way, he told me that I could tell the world who he was. There's a lot of details that are really dark, involving that program. And when is it appropriate, right? Well, it feels appropriate now. First of all, because you and I have been talking for several hours. So this is what is truly a long-form conversation and it's the outcome of, you know, a very long time of my reporting, and also being judicious about what, you know, closing the loop on that, right? Because I do think it's important for people to know that sources have revelations." Lex: "And, like you said, the programs, both on the Soviet side, and the American side, conflicting, I think's the term we used previously? Ethically, morally, on all fronts. People have done some horrible things in the name of security. In your book, 'Surprise, Kill Vanish,' you write about the CIA." ~~~ Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell: "So, today, I want to focus on a really important story that you once told me, that has never been told all the way [from the] beginning, to all the way to the end. And I just think it's just so cool we get to do this today. So, the question I want to ask is: After you got hooked on the UFO thing, with Bob Lazar, and you as a journalist said, 'I'm gonna start getting sources.' Like, 12 people coming at you, people shut down by the government. You can tell that. But you finally, finally got to a credible individual who had direct, firsthand knowledge about UFOs, exploitation, reverse engineering, and beings. And, oh my God, I want the world to hear this story. Tell us the story." George Knapp: "I've shared some of it in very broad strokes over the years- little bits and pieces of it - without ever actually referencing, in my statements, the guy the source. But this will be the first time I've told it in totality. "And it takes me back to when I first started in this. It's 1989 KLAS-TV, we put together, we spent eight months working on this project called 'UFOs: The Best Evidence.' Nine-part series. It airs on television, it's the biggest thing that's ever been produced for local TV, to this date, and still. "And, along the way, as I'm trying to find...telling the story about Bob Lazar, and his allegations about what was out there at S-4, near Area 51 - recovered discs, alien technology being reverse engineered - I'm looking for people who would support that. And I found about two dozen people, witnesses who had worked out there, who had seen bits and pieces, who could corroborate parts of what Bob had said about these kinds of craft being out there in the Nevada desert. But there wasn't anybody big picture who knew as much as Lazar claimed to have known, so I was still looking for them. "In 1990, I started working on a follow-up series to Best Evidence, looking for new witnesses. And I got a hint from an elected official that I had known, I'd covered him in Nevada politics. He says, 'You know, you should talk to my dad one of these days.' 'Your dad?' 'Yeah.' And he told me what the dad's name was and what he had done, what job he had had. And I said, 'Ah.' So I started stalking the guy. I just started showing up at events where I knew he would be. One of those events was a reunion for employees of EG&G." Corbell (JC): "So I'm assuming that this source was working within EG&G in some capacity, which is, by the way, who Bob [Lazar] said, hired him to go out to Site-4, S-4 at Area 51. So you're like, 'Okay, I can now find out if this is bullshit, or if there's an element of truth to it.' Do I have that right?" Knapp (GK): "Pretty much correct, yeah. So, I'm looking for someone whose credentials are impeccable. Unlike Bob, whose credentials were questioned, and people still attack him on where he went to school and where he worked, and was he at Los Alamos? This guy is documentable. There's a paper trail of where he worked, what he did. There's no question that he was in a position to know. He was the first general manager of EG&G in Nevada. His name was Al O'Donnell, and he has a prominent family. "When I heard that EG&G was having a reunion, I went there. We took a camera [and I figured], 'This is a great chance to get him on camera before I start asking him the questions I really want to ask.'" JC: "And when you say he is a general manager, like, does that give him certain roles and responsibilities that would give him insight? Like, he's not a secretary, so what does that mean?" GK: "He's the boss. He was the boss of the Nevada office. And I'll tell you a little bit about EG&G. So, it was a company that was created in Boston, right around the end of World War Two. Al O'Donnell had been in the Navy, serving during the war. He got out of the Navy while the war was still underway and went to work for a company called Raytheon, which became this massive, gigantic defense contractor that's still around today, still in Nevada in fact." JC: Yeah, they've got a big connection to the UFO topic, right? But, when you say Boston, like, where in Boston was it created?" GK: "Well, MIT is where the company was born. Edgerton, Germeshausen and Grier were the three guys, the EG&G in that. They were at MIT. Scientists, engineers, they created this company there. And Al O'Donnell, who had been working for Raytheon, working on the Manhattan Project. He didn't know he was working on the Manhattan Project, but they were building these devices, complex triggers, that allowed them to detonate nuclear weapons. He learned later what he was doing was part of the Manhattan Project. "He goes to MIT, starts working with EG&G. Their company in those days had, I think, 15 employees, Al said. So it was a very small startup. But it suddenly exploded because the American atomic program exploded in those years. In 1950, Harry Truman decides that we need a permanent, nuclear testing site somewhere in the continental U.S., so they looked at a bunch of places, and they settled on Nevada. "Prior to that, Al O'Donnell had been sent out to the Pacific. They had five of these massive, atomic bomb tests out in the Pacific, and they decided to move it into a continental U.S. location and Nevada's Test Site - it was called the Nevada Test Site in those days - was chosen. Al O'Donnell leads the exodus from Boston, out to Nevada. They start hiring engineers and scientists, physicists and other security, spies." JC: "What are they working on at this time when they make that move?" GK: "Atomic bombs. They're building, testing atomic bombs. EG&G was a really precise organization that was created in order to detonate, measure and photograph atomic weapons. If you look in the history of photography, you'll see some of these amazing photos that they took of, you know, water drops dropping in water and...they're pretty famous shots because of these cameras that they developed. And it was perfect for use and testing atomic weapons and documenting what the process was. "So, EG&G comes out to Las Vegas, they are the managers of the Nevada Test Site. They, subsequently, years later, become the managers of Area 51 when it opens in 1955. So Al O'Donnell is the top guy. He oversees the nuclear testing program out there, manages it for EG&G, works with the Atomic Energy Commission. He has a Top-Secret security clearance and he can go anywhere and see anything. There's, basically, no restrictions, nothing that is outside of his ability to find out and see." JC: "So, this is an impeccable resume. This is somebody who was in position to know, and would know if someone like Bob Lazar was telling the truth or not telling the truth. I find it, personally, humorous that EG&G was, its genesis, its seed, came from MIT, right?" GK: "So, late 1990 or early 1991, I'd have to look up the dates. But somewhere in there is this event, this EG&G reunion. I go there, we got a camera, I interview Al O'Donnell, introduce myself, and say, 'Hey, I'm really interested in this, can we continue this conversation?' So he invites me to his home. He says, 'Come on over, we'll arrange to come over on a Saturday or something. We'll sit down, I'll go through my scrapbooks and show you some documents and memorabilia and photos from that era.' I was like, 'Great.' "So I go to his house and meet this wife. And we sit down, he opens up these big scrapbooks, and he starts showing me all the stuff that he had done. Photos that had been taken out in the proximity of these gigantic nuclear tests. They had great stories about the camaraderie that developed among the engineers and scientists. And he's going through all this stuff and showing me all this. And I love it, I loved every bit of it. I've never had a bad day at the Nevada Test Site, by the way. Every time I've gone out there to do a story, it's just a terrific way to spend some time." JC: "Secrets should be kept, secrets are kept, and you are a proponent of keeping secrets when it's that kind of thing." GK: "Sure, absolutely. And I respected the boundaries that they set up for us in doing these kinds of stories. So I did go out to the Nevada Test Site a lot over the next 40 years or so and put together a lot of different stories. And they knew of my interest in that area that's just outside what the Nevada Test Site, a place called Area 51. In 1955, Area 51 was, basically, created and EG&G got the contract to manage Area 51, and had kept it for the next 30, 35 years. So, whatever went on out there, they had an inside knowledge of what was going on." JC: "So, you meet this guy, Al O'Donnell, for the first time when he's at this public thing. You probably say something like, 'Your son told me to talk to you,' or something. Whatever. It ends up, he invites you to his home, and you're going through scrapbooks, and he's showing you all this atomic testing stuff that he was involved in. GK: "Yeah, and I'm telling him, 'Boy, this is really interesting. That's fascinating. I'd love to do a story on it.' And after we're there for maybe two hours, he closes this one big scrapbook and he goes, 'You're not here to talk about this, are ya?' I said, 'Well, not exactly.' He says, 'I know what you're here to talk about. I know what you want to ask about.' And right about that point, his wife walks in and she says, 'Don't start telling them that stuff! Don't even tell him!' And he kind of joked about it.' JC: "What were you there to talk about?" GK: "UFOs, UFOs. Area 51, Bob Lazar, crashed saucers, reverse engineering, to see if he had any knowledge of that, because I'd been led to believe that he did. So he closes that book and he says, 'We'll have we'll get together another time and we'll talk about it in private.' And over the course of the next two years or so, he and I would meet at coffee shops and talk about it. And I would ask him questions, and really, it was like pulling teeth. He wanted to tell me stuff but he made me work at it." (AJ says his family was there for the confession. Knapp has over two years of meetings with him. A bit confusing.) GK: "And the condition was, I couldn't take any notes. I couldn't record it, I couldn't take any notes. So each time I'd meet with him, I'd rush back to my car and start scribbling notes on pieces of paper so I'd remember everything that he said. And the story that he told me, that evolved over those couple of years was pretty fantastic. "He said that they did have a flying saucer that had been recovered from New Mexico. I think he indicated that it had been taken from New Mexico to Wright Patterson Air Force Base, which is... He never said Roswell, but I think it was the Roswell incident is what he [was] talking about. And it confirmed some of the details about what we know, likely, happened with the Roswell craft." JC: "When he's telling you, 'We have recovered a craft,' did he say it like, this is secret, don't tell anybody?" GK: "Yeah, it was just for my knowledge, my background and information. It wasn't a story I could do then. We were negotiating about how, or when, or if I could ever use that information or make it public. He told me the details about this craft. He said that it had been stored at Indian Springs. Indian Springs is an Air Force Base that's been there for a long time. It's now called Creech. Indian Springs existed before Area 51 was made. "But he says it was there, they kept it there. It might have been in an underground facility, I'm not quite sure. But then when Area 51, after it opened in 1955, they moved it to an adjacent facility. He didn't say it was S-4, he didn't say it was Papoose, but I think that's what he's talking about. Papoose Lake is where Bob Lazar said he worked, and where they had built nine hangars underground, disguised to look like the desert, and where they had other recovered craft. "He says they worked on this recovered craft, reverse engineering, trying to figure out how it worked, who built it. Whether or not they could duplicate the technology because, apparently, they thought this was pretty advanced, and they'd like to be able to build more of 'em. "And he says it was a very closed program, very small. It was only, I think, five of them that were aware of it, at least in the early stages, that were working on this project. And it was very hush hush, and they didn't share it with anybody else in the company, or anybody else in the area, or the military. They just kept it to themselves. "So, after we're having these meetings - and I go back and write down all these notes and stuff, details about what he had shared with me - we have another meeting at a coffee shop, and I said, 'Well gosh, you know, aren't you worried that it would get out, that the word would get out?' "And he says to me, 'We were worried It would get out?' That's right. 'I mean, what...it? What do you mean, it?' It. Meaning a live being, they had a live being out there. I go, 'You had a live being, an alien as well?' [O'Donnell said], 'Tell you the truth, we didn't know what it was.' I said, 'You know, maybe it came from millions of miles away, out in space, and you're keeping it in a cage near Area 51?' He said, 'To tell you the truth, we couldn't communicate with it in the beginning. We didn't know what it was, we didn't know where it was from, and we didn't know what to do with it.'" JC: "When Al O'Donnell says to you, 'We had a live alien, a being,' obviously from another world, what was your feeling?" GK: "Well, I was overwhelmed, because it was, in effect, confirmation of things that I had come to believe, because of the reporting we'd already done. And then the evidence of cover ups and lies that had been told to the public. Here's this guy in a high position, with a high security clearance, telling me that it was true. That they really did have a craft and they had a being. "My second feeling was, one of overwhelming sadness for the being, whatever it was, you know, that was kept out there. I asked him, you know, what had happened to it, what became of it? He says, 'I don't know. I don't know whatever happened to it.' But it was out there for a while, alive, and eventually they figured out a way to communicate with it. "And so I asked him, 'Well, what did it look like?' And he made me guess, as he did with all these questions. He made me guess. He said, 'Well, it kinda looks like a certain political candidate.' I said, 'Well, who? A political candidate? Who?' And at the time, Ross Perot was running for president. He said, 'It looks like Ross Perot. A little skinny guy with a big ears and tiny head.' Not a classic Gray-looking alien, but a very odd-looking creature with really big ears, that looked like Ross Perot. And I laughed. "And so we had these conversations for a while, and I was blown away by the information that he shared. I took all these notes. I was hoping that someday, I might be able to get the information out. And I asked him, 'Look, you're getting up there in age. If I can't record something with you, could you record a statement to the effect of telling me the story on camera, and then when you pass on, I can have the tape?' And he said, 'Yeah,' he would do it." JC: "You know, look, I've heard a lot of wild stories that I can't verify. A guy's telling you something, and you get a sense as a journalist, when you go down a road with somebody, and you take your time and you vet it... Did you feel...I mean, is there any world where he's trying to f*ck with ya? Or is there a world where he's trying to, you know, dissuade...kind of put crazy information into your brain? Like, how did you feel when he was telling you this? Was he like, straight with you?" GK: "Yeah, he was very straightforward. And again, this was not information he was giving up, willingly. I mean, I had to really dig and coax and arm twist to get him to cough things up. And it was very slow-going over about a two-year period, maybe a little bit longer. And I know that this...you always have to be wary of people with different agendas and people that just make stuff up. I didn't get that sense from him because of his standing in the community. He had shared this story with members of his own family." JC: "And that's why they came to you, is because they kind of [gave] you a tip. And these members of his family, they're serious people, too." GK: "Yeah. One of his sons is an FBI agent, or was, he's passed on now. One was an elected official in Nevada. That was the one that gave me the tip." JC: So, I just want to nail this [down] so I understand. You were approached because he had shared this with his family, privately, and then you had to kind of coax to get through to him about the story?" GK: "Right." JC: "I think that's important because look, these things don't happen, like, people [don't] just come to us and say, you know, crazy stuff, and we're like, 'Hh, yeah, cool. Sounds good.' Like, the dynamic of that, socially, as a journalist, like getting in there, taking time. You know, we have to verify if what he said is true, and there are some major bombs coming about that. But it's like, that process is so important. "So here you are, you're sitting with him, he tells you now, they have a live alien. And you felt sad because you're an animal-rights activist, you love animals. I know with your cats at home and you've done horse stories and all the stories about like, the inhumane stuff to animals. So it made you personally sad, makes me sad, too now thinking about it." GK: Yeah. Well, we had these series of meetings, and then the last time we met, after he'd agreed to go ahead and record a tape - and give it to me after making an arrangement so I got it after he passed on - he said that he had been told to not talk to me anymore. He said he had been given a warning [and] it was not a good idea for him to talk to me any more about anything. Not just that topic, but anything." JC: "Well, who knows that you're talking? Who would warn him?" GK: "I don't know. I don't know. But you recall, back in those days, there was surveillance. We had our phones tapped at KLAS-TV. There were guys following us around. Me, Bob Lazar, Gene Huff, maybe Robert Bigelow." JC: "People were also coming to your news station, OSI. And they would come in and try to like, get to you and then they'd show you their card...and take it back. And you know your phones are tapped. So it's like, because of this story, all of a sudden you're on high alert. So, anybody could have called him, been watching you, had meetings with the guy. So what you're saying is one day he just said, 'I can't...I'm not allowed to talk to you any more.'" GK: "Yeah, I've been told not to talk to you anymore. I've been told not to."](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2079616298435400152/amplify_video_thumb/2079612656366112768/img/mxq1uM4Cp0iG8pyw.jpg)
"Tell us this isn't true." "They had a live being out [near Area 51]." "There were human experiments that went on." 👽🛸 Roswell: A Non-Human Craft or a Darker Secret? 🤫😶 (Transcript is shorter than clip. I don't have room to type more in this post so I'll just wait for replies.) ~ Lex Fridman: "In your book on 'Area 51,' you propose an explanation that I think some people have criticized, at the very end. That this might have been a disinformation campaign from, I guess, Stalin, that the Roswell incident was a remotely-piloted plane with a quote 'grotesque, child-sized aviator.' Just looking back at all that now, years later, what's the probability that it's true? What's the probability it's not?" Annie Jacobsen: (AJ): "So, you know, I've never revealed who that source is." Lex: "Yes." AJ: "You know that? Want me to tell you?" Lex: "Okay, who was the source?" AJ: "So, before I say anything on that, let me speak to the question that you asked, right? So, you asked me, 'What's the probability that that is still standing as an idea, 12, 13, 14 years later,' right? So, I continued to work with that source for years, afterwards. We talked about this. Look, I mean, his whole family knew it was him. And I knew his family because I was an integral part of, you know, I was at his house, met all his kids, grandkids." Lex: "And we should say, the source is the main expert advisor behind the story that it was. Maybe you can explain what the story is that your report in the book, that it was a disinformation campaign created by Stalin to cause mass hysteria in the United States. The very kind that we've been speaking about with the CIA and so on." AJ: "Yes! Predicated on the narrative of the 'War of the Worlds,' right? And the 'War of the Worlds,' when it was a radio program in the United States, made people go crazy. 'Oh, my God, we're being invaded by aliens!' Well, the government was always interested in the story and Joseph Stalin was, too. We know that from declassified documents, right? "And so, the source told me that the reason for this program, and that the real Roswell crash remains, were in fact, it was a black-propaganda hoax infiltrated, you know, or rather, predicated at this idea that you were gonna overwhelm America's early-warning, air-defense system, cause mayhem and maybe be able to attack the United States. That was the plan. And Stalin was also messing with the United States, messing with Truman, who sort of, you know, turned his back on him, right? At Potsdam. "And so, this idea, and the reason that the source is important... And unlike, you know, a lot of people, 'I saw this, I saw that, I learned that.' Was, according to the source, once it was determined that this was a hoax and that Stalin was able to get a craft over the United States, and it crashed. And it had, you know, people inside of it, they were people that were sort of deformed and meant...surgically altered to look like aliens. "The United States government decided that it needed to know what on earth that was all about, and if it was possible for us to have the same program. This, according to this source, right? And so, it sounds preposterous, and if it was just someone saying, 'I...,' you might say, 'Well, it's ridiculous, get them onto another subject.' But, the difference was, is this source, who was very well placed, and friends with all of the other 75 people, you know, told me this as a confession, right? A real, tearful confession, because what he said is he was involved in the American program to do the same thing. And people died, because there were human experiments that went on." "And I write about this in the last 12 pages of 'Area 51.' It was an explosive, you know, revelation, and I felt very confident in writing this because the source wanted it written. Why? Because he said, 'I'm dedicated to my country. I know about being committed to national security, and this kind of thing must never happen. And if you give people too much power, they will take advantage of it.' And he wanted it on the record. "And his wife of 60 years did not know until after the book published. Nor did His children, okay? So, after the book published, I was called to his house and sat there with his family. And they said, 'Tell us this isn't true.' And he said, 'It is true,' right? (We need a tape of this confession or...for his family to confirm they heard this from him.) AJ: "Now that source is Al O'Donnell, who is the nuclear-weapons engineer who armed, wired and fired 186 nuclear weapons, okay? So if you wanna talk about someone..." Lex: "Woooooow." AJ: "You're the first person I've told that on the record, but it's kind of about time." Lex: "Woooooow. Well, you received a lot of criticism over this story, and it confused me why, because it's...given the context of everything you've described with the CIA and other intelligence agencies, it is reasonable that such action would be taken. AJ: "And, the source is extraordinarily credible, right? If you wanted to take the position, 'Well, that person isn't very reliable,' then you have to ask yourself, 'Why did they have Top-Secret clearances that are higher than any in the United States whatsoever?' Because he was responsible for arming nuclear bombs. He was called the trigger man. "And by the way, he told me that I could tell the world who he was. There's a lot of details that are really dark, involving that program. And when is it appropriate, right? Well, it feels appropriate now. First of all, because you and I have been talking for several hours. So this is what is truly a long-form conversation and it's the outcome of, you know, a very long time of my reporting, and also being judicious about what, you know, closing the loop on that, right? Because I do think it's important for people to know that sources have revelations." Lex: "And, like you said, the programs, both on the Soviet side, and the American side, conflicting, I think's the term we used previously? Ethically, morally, on all fronts. People have done some horrible things in the name of security. In your book, 'Surprise, Kill Vanish,' you write about the CIA." ~~~ Jeremy Kenyon Lockyer Corbell: "So, today, I want to focus on a really important story that you once told me, that has never been told all the way [from the] beginning, to all the way to the end. And I just think it's just so cool we get to do this today. So, the question I want to ask is: After you got hooked on the UFO thing, with Bob Lazar, and you as a journalist said, 'I'm gonna start getting sources.' Like, 12 people coming at you, people shut down by the government. You can tell that. But you finally, finally got to a credible individual who had direct, firsthand knowledge about UFOs, exploitation, reverse engineering, and beings. And, oh my God, I want the world to hear this story. Tell us the story." George Knapp: "I've shared some of it in very broad strokes over the years- little bits and pieces of it - without ever actually referencing, in my statements, the guy the source. But this will be the first time I've told it in totality. "And it takes me back to when I first started in this. It's 1989 KLAS-TV, we put together, we spent eight months working on this project called 'UFOs: The Best Evidence.' Nine-part series. It airs on television, it's the biggest thing that's ever been produced for local TV, to this date, and still. "And, along the way, as I'm trying to find...telling the story about Bob Lazar, and his allegations about what was out there at S-4, near Area 51 - recovered discs, alien technology being reverse engineered - I'm looking for people who would support that. And I found about two dozen people, witnesses who had worked out there, who had seen bits and pieces, who could corroborate parts of what Bob had said about these kinds of craft being out there in the Nevada desert. But there wasn't anybody big picture who knew as much as Lazar claimed to have known, so I was still looking for them. "In 1990, I started working on a follow-up series to Best Evidence, looking for new witnesses. And I got a hint from an elected official that I had known, I'd covered him in Nevada politics. He says, 'You know, you should talk to my dad one of these days.' 'Your dad?' 'Yeah.' And he told me what the dad's name was and what he had done, what job he had had. And I said, 'Ah.' So I started stalking the guy. I just started showing up at events where I knew he would be. One of those events was a reunion for employees of EG&G." Corbell (JC): "So I'm assuming that this source was working within EG&G in some capacity, which is, by the way, who Bob [Lazar] said, hired him to go out to Site-4, S-4 at Area 51. So you're like, 'Okay, I can now find out if this is bullshit, or if there's an element of truth to it.' Do I have that right?" Knapp (GK): "Pretty much correct, yeah. So, I'm looking for someone whose credentials are impeccable. Unlike Bob, whose credentials were questioned, and people still attack him on where he went to school and where he worked, and was he at Los Alamos? This guy is documentable. There's a paper trail of where he worked, what he did. There's no question that he was in a position to know. He was the first general manager of EG&G in Nevada. His name was Al O'Donnell, and he has a prominent family. "When I heard that EG&G was having a reunion, I went there. We took a camera [and I figured], 'This is a great chance to get him on camera before I start asking him the questions I really want to ask.'" JC: "And when you say he is a general manager, like, does that give him certain roles and responsibilities that would give him insight? Like, he's not a secretary, so what does that mean?" GK: "He's the boss. He was the boss of the Nevada office. And I'll tell you a little bit about EG&G. So, it was a company that was created in Boston, right around the end of World War Two. Al O'Donnell had been in the Navy, serving during the war. He got out of the Navy while the war was still underway and went to work for a company called Raytheon, which became this massive, gigantic defense contractor that's still around today, still in Nevada in fact." JC: Yeah, they've got a big connection to the UFO topic, right? But, when you say Boston, like, where in Boston was it created?" GK: "Well, MIT is where the company was born. Edgerton, Germeshausen and Grier were the three guys, the EG&G in that. They were at MIT. Scientists, engineers, they created this company there. And Al O'Donnell, who had been working for Raytheon, working on the Manhattan Project. He didn't know he was working on the Manhattan Project, but they were building these devices, complex triggers, that allowed them to detonate nuclear weapons. He learned later what he was doing was part of the Manhattan Project. "He goes to MIT, starts working with EG&G. Their company in those days had, I think, 15 employees, Al said. So it was a very small startup. But it suddenly exploded because the American atomic program exploded in those years. In 1950, Harry Truman decides that we need a permanent, nuclear testing site somewhere in the continental U.S., so they looked at a bunch of places, and they settled on Nevada. "Prior to that, Al O'Donnell had been sent out to the Pacific. They had five of these massive, atomic bomb tests out in the Pacific, and they decided to move it into a continental U.S. location and Nevada's Test Site - it was called the Nevada Test Site in those days - was chosen. Al O'Donnell leads the exodus from Boston, out to Nevada. They start hiring engineers and scientists, physicists and other security, spies." JC: "What are they working on at this time when they make that move?" GK: "Atomic bombs. They're building, testing atomic bombs. EG&G was a really precise organization that was created in order to detonate, measure and photograph atomic weapons. If you look in the history of photography, you'll see some of these amazing photos that they took of, you know, water drops dropping in water and...they're pretty famous shots because of these cameras that they developed. And it was perfect for use and testing atomic weapons and documenting what the process was. "So, EG&G comes out to Las Vegas, they are the managers of the Nevada Test Site. They, subsequently, years later, become the managers of Area 51 when it opens in 1955. So Al O'Donnell is the top guy. He oversees the nuclear testing program out there, manages it for EG&G, works with the Atomic Energy Commission. He has a Top-Secret security clearance and he can go anywhere and see anything. There's, basically, no restrictions, nothing that is outside of his ability to find out and see." JC: "So, this is an impeccable resume. This is somebody who was in position to know, and would know if someone like Bob Lazar was telling the truth or not telling the truth. I find it, personally, humorous that EG&G was, its genesis, its seed, came from MIT, right?" GK: "So, late 1990 or early 1991, I'd have to look up the dates. But somewhere in there is this event, this EG&G reunion. I go there, we got a camera, I interview Al O'Donnell, introduce myself, and say, 'Hey, I'm really interested in this, can we continue this conversation?' So he invites me to his home. He says, 'Come on over, we'll arrange to come over on a Saturday or something. We'll sit down, I'll go through my scrapbooks and show you some documents and memorabilia and photos from that era.' I was like, 'Great.' "So I go to his house and meet this wife. And we sit down, he opens up these big scrapbooks, and he starts showing me all the stuff that he had done. Photos that had been taken out in the proximity of these gigantic nuclear tests. They had great stories about the camaraderie that developed among the engineers and scientists. And he's going through all this stuff and showing me all this. And I love it, I loved every bit of it. I've never had a bad day at the Nevada Test Site, by the way. Every time I've gone out there to do a story, it's just a terrific way to spend some time." JC: "Secrets should be kept, secrets are kept, and you are a proponent of keeping secrets when it's that kind of thing." GK: "Sure, absolutely. And I respected the boundaries that they set up for us in doing these kinds of stories. So I did go out to the Nevada Test Site a lot over the next 40 years or so and put together a lot of different stories. And they knew of my interest in that area that's just outside what the Nevada Test Site, a place called Area 51. In 1955, Area 51 was, basically, created and EG&G got the contract to manage Area 51, and had kept it for the next 30, 35 years. So, whatever went on out there, they had an inside knowledge of what was going on." JC: "So, you meet this guy, Al O'Donnell, for the first time when he's at this public thing. You probably say something like, 'Your son told me to talk to you,' or something. Whatever. It ends up, he invites you to his home, and you're going through scrapbooks, and he's showing you all this atomic testing stuff that he was involved in. GK: "Yeah, and I'm telling him, 'Boy, this is really interesting. That's fascinating. I'd love to do a story on it.' And after we're there for maybe two hours, he closes this one big scrapbook and he goes, 'You're not here to talk about this, are ya?' I said, 'Well, not exactly.' He says, 'I know what you're here to talk about. I know what you want to ask about.' And right about that point, his wife walks in and she says, 'Don't start telling them that stuff! Don't even tell him!' And he kind of joked about it.' JC: "What were you there to talk about?" GK: "UFOs, UFOs. Area 51, Bob Lazar, crashed saucers, reverse engineering, to see if he had any knowledge of that, because I'd been led to believe that he did. So he closes that book and he says, 'We'll have we'll get together another time and we'll talk about it in private.' And over the course of the next two years or so, he and I would meet at coffee shops and talk about it. And I would ask him questions, and really, it was like pulling teeth. He wanted to tell me stuff but he made me work at it." (AJ says his family was there for the confession. Knapp has over two years of meetings with him. A bit confusing.) GK: "And the condition was, I couldn't take any notes. I couldn't record it, I couldn't take any notes. So each time I'd meet with him, I'd rush back to my car and start scribbling notes on pieces of paper so I'd remember everything that he said. And the story that he told me, that evolved over those couple of years was pretty fantastic. "He said that they did have a flying saucer that had been recovered from New Mexico. I think he indicated that it had been taken from New Mexico to Wright Patterson Air Force Base, which is... He never said Roswell, but I think it was the Roswell incident is what he [was] talking about. And it confirmed some of the details about what we know, likely, happened with the Roswell craft." JC: "When he's telling you, 'We have recovered a craft,' did he say it like, this is secret, don't tell anybody?" GK: "Yeah, it was just for my knowledge, my background and information. It wasn't a story I could do then. We were negotiating about how, or when, or if I could ever use that information or make it public. He told me the details about this craft. He said that it had been stored at Indian Springs. Indian Springs is an Air Force Base that's been there for a long time. It's now called Creech. Indian Springs existed before Area 51 was made. "But he says it was there, they kept it there. It might have been in an underground facility, I'm not quite sure. But then when Area 51, after it opened in 1955, they moved it to an adjacent facility. He didn't say it was S-4, he didn't say it was Papoose, but I think that's what he's talking about. Papoose Lake is where Bob Lazar said he worked, and where they had built nine hangars underground, disguised to look like the desert, and where they had other recovered craft. "He says they worked on this recovered craft, reverse engineering, trying to figure out how it worked, who built it. Whether or not they could duplicate the technology because, apparently, they thought this was pretty advanced, and they'd like to be able to build more of 'em. "And he says it was a very closed program, very small. It was only, I think, five of them that were aware of it, at least in the early stages, that were working on this project. And it was very hush hush, and they didn't share it with anybody else in the company, or anybody else in the area, or the military. They just kept it to themselves. "So, after we're having these meetings - and I go back and write down all these notes and stuff, details about what he had shared with me - we have another meeting at a coffee shop, and I said, 'Well gosh, you know, aren't you worried that it would get out, that the word would get out?' "And he says to me, 'We were worried It would get out?' That's right. 'I mean, what...it? What do you mean, it?' It. Meaning a live being, they had a live being out there. I go, 'You had a live being, an alien as well?' [O'Donnell said], 'Tell you the truth, we didn't know what it was.' I said, 'You know, maybe it came from millions of miles away, out in space, and you're keeping it in a cage near Area 51?' He said, 'To tell you the truth, we couldn't communicate with it in the beginning. We didn't know what it was, we didn't know where it was from, and we didn't know what to do with it.'" JC: "When Al O'Donnell says to you, 'We had a live alien, a being,' obviously from another world, what was your feeling?" GK: "Well, I was overwhelmed, because it was, in effect, confirmation of things that I had come to believe, because of the reporting we'd already done. And then the evidence of cover ups and lies that had been told to the public. Here's this guy in a high position, with a high security clearance, telling me that it was true. That they really did have a craft and they had a being. "My second feeling was, one of overwhelming sadness for the being, whatever it was, you know, that was kept out there. I asked him, you know, what had happened to it, what became of it? He says, 'I don't know. I don't know whatever happened to it.' But it was out there for a while, alive, and eventually they figured out a way to communicate with it. "And so I asked him, 'Well, what did it look like?' And he made me guess, as he did with all these questions. He made me guess. He said, 'Well, it kinda looks like a certain political candidate.' I said, 'Well, who? A political candidate? Who?' And at the time, Ross Perot was running for president. He said, 'It looks like Ross Perot. A little skinny guy with a big ears and tiny head.' Not a classic Gray-looking alien, but a very odd-looking creature with really big ears, that looked like Ross Perot. And I laughed. "And so we had these conversations for a while, and I was blown away by the information that he shared. I took all these notes. I was hoping that someday, I might be able to get the information out. And I asked him, 'Look, you're getting up there in age. If I can't record something with you, could you record a statement to the effect of telling me the story on camera, and then when you pass on, I can have the tape?' And he said, 'Yeah,' he would do it." JC: "You know, look, I've heard a lot of wild stories that I can't verify. A guy's telling you something, and you get a sense as a journalist, when you go down a road with somebody, and you take your time and you vet it... Did you feel...I mean, is there any world where he's trying to f*ck with ya? Or is there a world where he's trying to, you know, dissuade...kind of put crazy information into your brain? Like, how did you feel when he was telling you this? Was he like, straight with you?" GK: "Yeah, he was very straightforward. And again, this was not information he was giving up, willingly. I mean, I had to really dig and coax and arm twist to get him to cough things up. And it was very slow-going over about a two-year period, maybe a little bit longer. And I know that this...you always have to be wary of people with different agendas and people that just make stuff up. I didn't get that sense from him because of his standing in the community. He had shared this story with members of his own family." JC: "And that's why they came to you, is because they kind of [gave] you a tip. And these members of his family, they're serious people, too." GK: "Yeah. One of his sons is an FBI agent, or was, he's passed on now. One was an elected official in Nevada. That was the one that gave me the tip." JC: So, I just want to nail this [down] so I understand. You were approached because he had shared this with his family, privately, and then you had to kind of coax to get through to him about the story?" GK: "Right." JC: "I think that's important because look, these things don't happen, like, people [don't] just come to us and say, you know, crazy stuff, and we're like, 'Hh, yeah, cool. Sounds good.' Like, the dynamic of that, socially, as a journalist, like getting in there, taking time. You know, we have to verify if what he said is true, and there are some major bombs coming about that. But it's like, that process is so important. "So here you are, you're sitting with him, he tells you now, they have a live alien. And you felt sad because you're an animal-rights activist, you love animals. I know with your cats at home and you've done horse stories and all the stories about like, the inhumane stuff to animals. So it made you personally sad, makes me sad, too now thinking about it." GK: Yeah. Well, we had these series of meetings, and then the last time we met, after he'd agreed to go ahead and record a tape - and give it to me after making an arrangement so I got it after he passed on - he said that he had been told to not talk to me anymore. He said he had been given a warning [and] it was not a good idea for him to talk to me any more about anything. Not just that topic, but anything." JC: "Well, who knows that you're talking? Who would warn him?" GK: "I don't know. I don't know. But you recall, back in those days, there was surveillance. We had our phones tapped at KLAS-TV. There were guys following us around. Me, Bob Lazar, Gene Huff, maybe Robert Bigelow." JC: "People were also coming to your news station, OSI. And they would come in and try to like, get to you and then they'd show you their card...and take it back. And you know your phones are tapped. So it's like, because of this story, all of a sudden you're on high alert. So, anybody could have called him, been watching you, had meetings with the guy. So what you're saying is one day he just said, 'I can't...I'm not allowed to talk to you any more.'" GK: "Yeah, I've been told not to talk to you anymore. I've been told not to."
Joe Murgia101,194 views • 1 month ago
"I will testify under oath before Congress that what I'm saying is the truth." "And he said, 'By the way, we've discovered a base on the back side of the Moon.' He pulled out one of these mosaics and showed this base, which had geometric shapes, there were towers, there were spherical buildings, there were very tall towers." ~KW (The photographic evidence I've seen thus far leaves a lot to be desired, so if more images are going to be released (as Lue Elizondo spoke about), let's hope they're clear, and conclusively show artificial structures. Ever since I first heard Wolfe tell his story (2001 at Greer's event), I felt he came across as highly credible. Unfortunately, he was killed in 2018 when he was hit by a tractor trailer as he was biking. So what did he see? Structures built by a non-human intelligence? Or, built by a previous, highly-advanced civilization on Earth? Or, from a current, human, "breakaway civilization"?) ~ Former U.S. Air Force Sergeant Karl Wolfe: "My boss came to me, I was working in a color lab at that time, I was a technician, photographic technician. I was asked to go over to this facility on Langley Air Force Base, where the NSA was bringing in the information from the lunar orbiter. And so I packed up some tools, I went over, I went into the facility. "A couple of officers took me into this hangar. This was a very large hangar. So they took me into this laboratory. I took a look at the equipment. There was an airman second class in there, I was an airman second class as well. He turned the equipment on and put it through its paces. It didn't do what it was supposed to do. I saw what was going on with it, and I said to him, 'You know, we'll have to take this thing out of the lab if we're going to work on it. We can't work on it in here in the dark-room environment.' "So, everyone left the facility, left the dark room, except this airman second class and myself. And were in, waiting for someone to come to remove this piece of equipment. And at the time, I didn't know what the real purpose of this dark room and this operation and this (laughs) facility was. I thought this was where they were bringing the data in and then releasing the images to the public. "They were doing 35 millimeter strips of film at that time, which were then assembled into 18 and a half by 11 inch mosaics, they were called. There is a digital signature and a gray scale on every 35 millimeter strip. And those strips were from successive passes around the moon. "So he was showing me how all this worked, and we walked over to one side of the lab, and he said, 'By the way, we've discovered a base on the back side of the Moon.' And I said, 'Whose (laughs)? What do you mean, whose?' He said, 'Yes, we've discovered a base on the back side of the Moon.' "And at that point, I become frightened, and was a little terrified. Thinking to myself that, if anybody walks in the room now, I know we're in jeopardy, we're in trouble, because he shouldn't be giving me this information. "And that he pulled out one of these mosaics and showed this base, which had geometric shapes, there were towers, there were spherical buildings, there were very tall towers, and things that looked somewhat like radar dishes but they were large structures. If I compare it to what I'm seeing now, because I do have photographs that have our artifacts in them that are similar to what I saw, they're massive. Some of the structures are, you know, half a mile in size. So they're huge structures. "Some of the buildings seemed to have very reflective surfaces on them. A couple of structures that I saw reminded me of cooling towers at power-generating plants, they had that sort of a shape. Some of them were just very, very straight and tall with a flat top. Some of them were round, some of them looked like a Quonset hut, you know, with a domed kind of, like a greenhouse. "The particular shot that I saw, there were several clustered together over a landscape, a fairly large landscape. I didn't want to look at it any longer than that because I felt that my life was in jeopardy. Do you understand what I'm saying (laughs)? I would love to have looked at it longer (laughs), I would have loved to have had copies. I would love to have, you know, said more about it or discussed it more, but I knew I couldn't. And I knew that that young fellow who was sharing this was really, really overstepping his bounds at that point."
Joe Murgia118,679 views • 2 months ago