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Anyone who thinks software engineering is ‘going away’ doesn’t understand the job. Kent Beck 🌻, creator of XP and TDD, on why Dario has it wrong: [Gergely: Dario said, I quote, ‘coding is going away first, then all of software engineering’. ] “That's a statement by someone who doesn't... understand software engineering. Coding is part of what you're doing, but it's only a small part of what you're doing, even if it takes up a fair amount of time. You're building confidence, you're building connections with other people, you’re building your own understanding. All those things are happening while you're coding. And coding's actually a great way to cement understanding. The more you program, the more you understand the domain that you're working in. And so to say, well, we're just going to pass all that off to a machine. Well, that's not all there is to it. A couple of days ago I saw a phrase, and it really hit me, that we're accumulating code faster than we're accumulating trust now. And that sense of trust comes from me struggling to understand some domain concept, ah, I get it! I represented it in the code. I write tests that demonstrate that I really did understand it and now, I trust my program. If we're programming together, that act of programming together means that we trust each other more. And none of that can be automated. None of that occurs. If we prompt, we get the finger guns, the genie goes, yeah, it's all finished, boss. And it is like, well, hang on, finished. What's finished?”show more

The Pragmatic Engineer

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26,496 views • 3 months ago •via X (Twitter)

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The Pragmatic Engineer3 months ago

Learn more about the origins of TDD, Extreme Programming and Agile from Kent Beck on The Pragmatic Engineer podcast: • YouTube: • Spotify: • Apple: • Summary and transcript:

Karan Handa3 months ago

@GergelyOrosz @KentBeck “That's a statement by someone who doesn't understand software engineering.” I disagree. That’s a statement by someone trying to sell their product.

Kirill Goldin3 months ago

@KentBeck This is great insight. The s/w engineering and coding is frequently perceived as synonymous, and it is not. The communication, KYC, taste and ability to organize and lead are all parts of engineering effort - very few people work in the team of one and never scale up.

Pete Stewart3 months ago

Such an interesting topic, and I feel in many ways @KentBeck is spot on. Software Engineering is way more than writing code, in fact that is a very small part of it. I often say I'm language agnostic, as the code itself doesn't really matter, it's the concept that makes an engineer! AI is in many ways like a keyboard or speech to text tools. It's just another way for code to be written, but it still needs an experienced engineer guilding it and outlining the core concepts and structure, and working through those thoughts as the project is evolving.

CBR_wick3 months ago

@KentBeck This will age profoundly poor.

BoxPol3 months ago

@KentBeck We’ll do our own software systems building. Engineers will be ai coders. You software people don’t even understand basic fundamentals of natural law for some reason. Explaining to you is not needed anymore to build programs and automate process

Bryan S3 months ago

@KentBeck Another banger, very much enjoyed this and the recent interview with Kelsey Hightower.

Luca Capone | Building with AI3 months ago

@KentBeck Matches what I see from the other side. I can't really code, I ship with AI. The syntax was never the wall. Knowing what to build and why still takes everything, and that doesn't go away.

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The All-In Podcast

304,977 views • 1 year ago

"All the drivers here, they're exceptional. And such a huge part that, I don't know if it gets commented on, is having confidence in the vehicle that you're driving, with the tool that you're using." "When you lose that confidence, you shed a lot of time." "So the confidence has finally come back. And that's what you're seeing today. It's literally just having the confidence to be able to throw that car into the corner, and it's going to stick. And also, just after driving it for so long, you get used to it." [2023 🩷]

"All the drivers here, they're exceptional. And such a huge part that, I don't know if it gets commented on, is having confidence in the vehicle that you're driving, with the tool that you're using." "When you lose that confidence, you shed a lot of time." "So the confidence has finally come back. And that's what you're seeing today. It's literally just having the confidence to be able to throw that car into the corner, and it's going to stick. And also, just after driving it for so long, you get used to it." [2023 🩷]

sim

56,985 views • 11 months ago

Scott Wu (Scott Wu) on what programming will look like in the future: “All programming really comes down to is how do you tell your computer what to do? For every single piece of software that you use, some team of engineers came together and thought through all these details of, "Okay, here's what I want it to do. Here's how I want it to look. Here's what I want this button to do. Here's how I want to architect it." Every single little decision was made by somebody. And the computer is then executing it according to the wishes of its creators. At this point you don't need to know a programming language. You don't need to know Python or Java or something like that in order to build your own software. You can just say, "Hey, here's what I want. I wanna make a cool website that does this and that." Or in my existing product, "Here' what we have today, and I wanna change this thing or add this new feature," and just have the agent go and do that for you. I think we're gonna continue to go further down that axis. I think we'll start to see that abstraction will continue to climb. I think what we'll see a lot more of in the near future is making a piece of software which you're going to use one time and never again. To create software today the math only really works out if it's gonna be used at least a million times or something. Maybe it's 10,000 times or whatever. My point is if you wanna go build a product today, you need a whole team of engineers. Engineers are expensive. You need that software to be used enough times to create enough value for that to be worth it. But there are so many things out there which are very specific things that only need to be used a few times, or even only once. There’s all of these things that could be done with software. It just obviously doesn't make sense to hire a whole team of people to go make you that piece of software, which you're gonna use one time and never again. We're gonna get to a point where you are just giving your instructions to your agent, and the agent is gonna figure out, okay, I'm gonna write this code that's gonna go do this. I'm gonna put a script that automates this part etc. and that's what's gonna allow [single use software]. What [this is all about] is really just how you control your computer and how you get it to do what you wanna go do. You’ll wake up in the morning and you’ll talk to your agent about it. The agent does the literal writing of the code and you're the one that's deciding what to do.”

Scott Wu (Scott Wu) on what programming will look like in the future: “All programming really comes down to is how do you tell your computer what to do? For every single piece of software that you use, some team of engineers came together and thought through all these details of, "Okay, here's what I want it to do. Here's how I want it to look. Here's what I want this button to do. Here's how I want to architect it." Every single little decision was made by somebody. And the computer is then executing it according to the wishes of its creators. At this point you don't need to know a programming language. You don't need to know Python or Java or something like that in order to build your own software. You can just say, "Hey, here's what I want. I wanna make a cool website that does this and that." Or in my existing product, "Here' what we have today, and I wanna change this thing or add this new feature," and just have the agent go and do that for you. I think we're gonna continue to go further down that axis. I think we'll start to see that abstraction will continue to climb. I think what we'll see a lot more of in the near future is making a piece of software which you're going to use one time and never again. To create software today the math only really works out if it's gonna be used at least a million times or something. Maybe it's 10,000 times or whatever. My point is if you wanna go build a product today, you need a whole team of engineers. Engineers are expensive. You need that software to be used enough times to create enough value for that to be worth it. But there are so many things out there which are very specific things that only need to be used a few times, or even only once. There’s all of these things that could be done with software. It just obviously doesn't make sense to hire a whole team of people to go make you that piece of software, which you're gonna use one time and never again. We're gonna get to a point where you are just giving your instructions to your agent, and the agent is gonna figure out, okay, I'm gonna write this code that's gonna go do this. I'm gonna put a script that automates this part etc. and that's what's gonna allow [single use software]. What [this is all about] is really just how you control your computer and how you get it to do what you wanna go do. You’ll wake up in the morning and you’ll talk to your agent about it. The agent does the literal writing of the code and you're the one that's deciding what to do.”

David Senra

12,855 views • 3 months ago

.Mollie to Republicans dealing with the legacy media — understand your opponent for who they really are: “If you understand that you're not just having a debate with an opponent, but your most hostile and most rabid opponent; if you understand that they are propaganda and then you go into it, I think that's one thing." "If you're just treating them like you still have this 1960s view of what the media are, that's when you're going to get in trouble." A-men.

.Mollie to Republicans dealing with the legacy media — understand your opponent for who they really are: “If you understand that you're not just having a debate with an opponent, but your most hostile and most rabid opponent; if you understand that they are propaganda and then you go into it, I think that's one thing." "If you're just treating them like you still have this 1960s view of what the media are, that's when you're going to get in trouble." A-men.

Western Lensman

151,393 views • 5 months ago

👨🏻‍🚀: Being anxious about the future? I understand. I don't think you ever really figure it out. I think when we're younger, we all feel like when we're adults, we grow up and then all of the sudden all of our problems are fixed and we know all the answers, but in reality that's just not the case. 👨🏻‍🚀: The older you get, the more problems come up and the more (..) we become. So, I think you're crushing. And although they crushed you, i think surviving day by day is more than enough for now. And, there's a saying in music that I feel applies in life as well. "The person who succeeds in life isn't the person who does well, who blows up instantly, it's the person who last the longest." Well they say that about music, but I think it applies to life also. Wishing you luck, brother.

👨🏻‍🚀: Being anxious about the future? I understand. I don't think you ever really figure it out. I think when we're younger, we all feel like when we're adults, we grow up and then all of the sudden all of our problems are fixed and we know all the answers, but in reality that's just not the case. 👨🏻‍🚀: The older you get, the more problems come up and the more (..) we become. So, I think you're crushing. And although they crushed you, i think surviving day by day is more than enough for now. And, there's a saying in music that I feel applies in life as well. "The person who succeeds in life isn't the person who does well, who blows up instantly, it's the person who last the longest." Well they say that about music, but I think it applies to life also. Wishing you luck, brother.

nad

27,924 views • 1 year ago