Fighting games have long had a challenging learning curve dating back to as far as 1 frame links in Street Fighter, to what looks like gibberish to input a fatality in Mortal Kombat. Sajam presents a good question in this clip, "Why are fighting games not allowed to be... sick?" ----------------------------------------------------- Fighting games have existed as very niche genre, even now the viewership and participants of people that partake in fighting games is often dwarfed by any shooter, moba, or TCG game. That being said they ARE growing as a genre and new players find themselves heavily invested in discussion threads, discords, or tournaments which is awesome! It's amazing to see such growth in what felt like a small slice of the world in Esports. This growth is in no short part to the accessibility shift that new fighting games have aimed to capture in an attempt to weaken the barriers of entry to such a demanding genre. Therein lies the issue though, what we've gained in accessibility we have lost in identity. A lot of playstyles in newer fighting games feel homogenized, simplistic, easy to understand but stifling once comprehended. Why does a game like Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3 still entice players younger than the game itself to it's community? Why did Street Fighter 3 third Strike have such an electrifying tournament at Evo despite being that game being old enough to rent a car? - Unique and plentiful characters - a non-constrictive fighting game system - identity in the way you play and interact with the game New fighting games are like a tiny sandbox in wealthy park. You know it's not very big, and maybe it's only fun for a little while, but it's always well maintained and accessible. Old fighting games are sandboxes in old neighborhoods : not very cared for, probably a bit unsafe, but so vast and unexplored you often came home every time with a different experience from it (good or bad). It's hard to say which I like more, maybe I like both. But when I was kid I just know I loved being in a bigger playground, and I think as an adult- I still deserve a big playground.show more

if you try to appeal to everyone you'll appeal to no one

well said

But why do fgs need to be symplified whilst games like deadlock are doing pretty well despite being as complex as it is?

a great question

Also I miss joke characters. Every time they add a character it feels like they need to be made competitively viable. I want my awful character that is just goofy again. I want stuff like Dan, Servbot, Pheonix Wright.

those are fun too but in the current landscape where new characters REALLY gotta pull in new players, they would rather just make cool ones that are cheap lol

I feel like they miss the pull of those characters too though. Guess we will just have to see how Roger Jr. does for T8. Know Dan did SF5 really well. Surprised they haven't put him in yet since his moves do exist on an NPC like Sagat.

This is a great tweet, but I feel like it's the direction where people aren't looking at, is what they want I will forever shout it from rooftops but in terms of the discovery phase and open sandbox of fighting games, it's definitely the direction indie fighters are heading

indie games are in a place of their own! they are literally winning on all fronts (just check the awards haha)

I don't know if I really agree with the premise that an increase in accessibility or systems that constrain the player inherently leads to a loss in playstyle diversity or player expression Pokken really emphasizes accessibility and it's unique systems tend to be things that constrain the player rather then enabling them to do extra things, yet it has a very distinct roster in terms of how differently each character plays and how two players will play the same character (It's also a fantastic fighting game in general, sadly extremely misunderstood due to widely and incorrectly being seen as an arena fighter)

they are not mutually exclusive but it's clear that prioritization of one (in the current climate) can stifle the other. it's a hard balance and that's what people need to see

I’ll say this, 1 frame links are incredibly overrated in the grand scheme of fighting game discourse. They are not what holds people back from being a good at a game.

Newcomers have no idea what to do in sandboxes. A friend is the best way to experience it but not all friends are good at teaching. It's not hard for a person to feel like they're being bullied, patronized or led along by said friend

to each their own but I think for the longevity of the player interest, it's better to have a higher ceiling than a lower one. Lower floor helps the newcomers but doesn't have to sacrifice the former

A high ceiling is still scary to noobs especially if they can't identify how high it is. The only solution I could come up with is if somehow, the game tells you a hint of what you did wrong per game like in Tekken but better and non optional.

It might also be a motivation issue. Not all newcommers are going to be invested in combo-trials or labbing as much as an average FGC player. So I can guess that devs wanted to strike a middle ground with adjusting the skill ceiling and whatnot for newer games.

@MillionParadox it's a hard ask for SUREEEE

Some prefer the chaos of the old games and some people like the intent of the new games. We’re always comparing one generation over another but at the end of the day, the games are the games.

we play what we wanna play but I'm always down to yap about where we are at least lol

Have you tried Scramble Heart City? That game has crazy amounts of variance with characters with distinct identities

I've not but what's your favorite thing about it?

Characters with unique gimmicks and moves that are highly expressive Being able to DHC up to three times even if you have less than three characters Much like marvel you pick your characters assist

sounds dope!

“Old enough to rent a car” was a good line I enjoyed that

hahah bless

I just want more offline content. I don’t have the opportunity to play people shoulder to shoulder or online in a regular sense. FGs and Beatemups and RPGs need to be more synonymous with eachother if you ask me.

that's a valid point!

My ideal is different game modes, custom or remixed fighting styles, career style or world tour play, and maybe a way to bend the default rules a bit for fun and experimentation. Not just pieces of clothing or an art gallery.

It's a good point; however if all characters are homogenized like in SF6, who cares what the model looks like, the best way to play them is exactly the same across the board

yes lol

Fgs can be sick, but ppl have to actually buy, play, and learn them. It’s as simple as popularity, sales, and modern gaming culture. Ppl want more “sick” games, then the new audience has to ask for it. There’s also the bias against certain sub genres, and that’s not helping.

>growing as a genere >new games are all boring trash for the masses who don't even like fighting games Fighting games need to die

Multi-part comment chain because I'm poor. Because fighting games weren't intentionally sick. "Identity" is often thrown around but it often feels less like the FGC is complaining about actual issues and are really complaining about change. Part 1 of X)

I've found that the people who've been playing FGs the longest are always the people who understand the FGs unpopularity the least. Folk value their expertise, but in this case, they shouldn't, cause these people have no idea what it's like to not be a FG player.

It's interesting take if you think fighting game players only play that genre and nothing else (I don't and neither does Sajam, as an example)

People have been saying this for years sajam isnt saying anything new infact He was one of the people bootlicking for these homogenous games Fuck outta here with that

Absolute majority of modern fgs are boring. Screen is too small, movement is not allowed to be good, less options, less pushback on moves, less depth, less execution, less cool stuff that you can practice for years and still be mediocre at that skill

This can be applied to RTS games as well. MOBAs have essentially replaced RTS games in the Esports realm since MOBAs have a lower skill floor/ceiling but something like Brood War still tests the time in the Esports/Casual scene because it's SO difficult it's captivating to play

Whether classic input schemes or the new more accessible styles it all comes down to player mindset. Fighting games generally are the player vs themselves. It takes an iron mental to find getting ToD fun. A bigger playground is great, as long as I'm not the only one in it.

Fighting games are not a niche genre was so ever. Nearly every fighting game franchise you heard of has sold multiple millions of units. That has nothing to do with modern games sucking. The problem with modern fighters is they are too worried about balancing and fairness

Well said I just find it sad that points like these were considered outliers 6- 10 years ago, coming across as "entitled" and "old-head" in nature.

agreed! we've been in the current generation of games long enough to have provoking thoughts about it?

Catering to the lowest common denominator is rewarded nowadays. The most popular fighting game right now, SF6, is an incredibly repetitive, simplified game that revolves around guessing, has bad input buffer, no defensive mechanics, and a mechanic that erases inputs.

Beautifully put wtf.

appreciate that!

Release New Characters Event Hubs Forums "why is Mai and Terry in my Street Fighter ?" I am convinced the FGC doesn't know what they want.

I think the loss in identity has more to do with being easier and cheaper for the designers when there are less unknowns. Chars with very different win conditions or gameplans are often terrible or broken, it's easier to work with when they all play variations of the same game.

sajam thinks thing being bigger makes thing better sajam doesnt realize not everything needs to be for everybody all the time sometimes a game doesnt need to be bastardized to appeall to people who arent interested food for thought

Banger

Bless

>Why did Street Fighter 3 third Strike have such an electrifying tournament at Evo despite being that game being old enough to rent a car? memes, like moment 37 and Hayao

@MarcelineTDB TLDR

I am thinking about KoF XV at this very moment. Especially against Sajam’s clip. How many characters are in that game, so why am I seeing the game on sale for like $5-10? What is missing? Obviously a lot compared to the more popular games but compared to old games? Not much.

Fighting games are one of the only multiplayer genre (and occasionally TCG) that keep retro games alive via community grassroots efforts; it helps that publishers look the other way on efforts like fightcade because they know it actually helps them in long run