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How Tier 1 & Tier 2 VC funds use pricing to 'win' rounds.. & why that doesn't work on the best founders "The strategy that they're going to employ is to use valuation as a lever to win, & it's not a crazy strategy, but it also puts a... show more

Molly O’Shea

17,762 subscribers

43,510 views • 1 year ago •via X (Twitter)

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11 Comments

Peter Walker1 year ago

Seems to assert that the "best founders" take the lower valuation more of the time...have seen no data at all suggesting this. It might be true! But I'm skeptical.

Peter Tarr2 years ago

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Dan Gray1 year ago

It's price, not valuation. It's a pedantic point, but I do think professional investors should care enough to get this right.

Molly O’Shea1 year ago

get which part right?

Morgan1 year ago

I think that's spot on - best price could just mean a lot of pain later down the road and setting unrealistic goals. I want the best price for my home and my car because once it sells, that's it - I'm done. With fundraising, I want the right price because once it closes, targets are set.

Cam1 year ago

💯

Molly O’Shea1 year ago

Brickyard been seeing this?

Jenny Xiao 🌌1 year ago

The problem is that at that stage, capital has become very commoditized. Every bidder has a great team, great brand, etc. You can't really compete on anything other than price.

Avi Krishna1 year ago

Really? Do founders in practice ever reject term sheets from top tier funds at better valuations to take worse terms from 'lower-tier- VCs?

Erik Kirkegaard1 year ago

"You can take less money?"

John D. Villarreal, JD, MBA, MA1 year ago

Good clip/interview @MollySOShea. I agree with most of this, but I'll put a few modifiers from my own opinion: 1.) I think that at the margins we can quibble on T1 vs. T2 (who is in which VC "grouping"), but I think there are at least a significant amount of funds that are clearly T1 or T2 (at least based on history, size, rep, connections, talent, etc.). That's not a dis, it's just facts, IMO. For instance, I (if I had the money) can start a pro football league, but can I really honestly flex that I have the same talent on my team YR1 as the @Eagles? No, I can't. "But, JDV, we're both pro, how can you say that, we don't know for sure, these are new players, a new year, etc.." No, we pretty much know that, IMO. I may have my potential occasional issues with the @NFL draft, or scouting, or conservative/possibly lack of courage/imagination for filling NFL rosters, but for every @TomBrady story, there are at least 10-100X stories where the system got it right. This brings up a larger Q (and analogy) of the "warm intro" to VC that @pmarca was talking about and some said a study criticized, but the short story is there are always these kinds of discussions over the years on various topics. The challenge is always to figure out what's best for you, do your own diligence, find the "unfound"/overlooked alpha, and figure out where the ball/puck is going to be in future biz/tech and be there first. Nothing has changed on that basic premise, IMO. The Q is how do you build a better mousetrap and not get "trapped" into a thought paradigm/system that isn't effective. So, to that point, I totally agree with your guest. 2.) I wish more founders (and biz/tech press, etc.) would think as your guest suggests, but frankly, I've worked with a lot of founders, been a founder, been a VC and been in the game a while, and for the most part (good or bad) founders and press chase valuations. The bigger the better. Which can be problematic as the clip suggests. On the other hand some VCs may use price to "win" deals, we all know the name of the game is to fiond the best deals, get in the deal as low a val as possible, and get as much of the deal as you can (per your firm's strategy, etc.). So, a lot of founders worry about being undervalued, and I certainly get it. Which leads us to the obvious as the clip states. It is best to fairly price rounds, but that can be hard to do and can be more of an art than a science, IMO. Plus, it is often affected by the market the raise is done in (which can inflate or undervalue just based on market conditions), but let's assume we figure out true FMV, great. That then leads to the T1 vs T2 discussion, as all things being equal I'm going to want to go with a @sequoia, @foundersfund, @kleinerperkins, @a16z, @khoslaventures, @Accel, NEA, @BessemerVP, etc., etc (not trying to leave anyone out here my VC peeps, just the post is already long) vs. a new fund or whatever. Which also leads the the discussion of what value the VCs are providing beyond money, are they using the FF model/@ycombinator-type model or more traditional VC (Khosla, etc.) model, is the the same as it used to be, etc. and so it goes. Just my $0.02 NOTE: not giving financial advice, VC advice, or any other kind of advice. Everything you do is at your own risk. Not alleging any facts and all my personal opinion only.

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TBPN

44,248 views • 5 months ago

HOLY CRAP! President Trump is DROPPING NUKES. "Well, I think that foreign, uh, interests are represented by people that I believe have undue influence." "They have a lot of influence over the Supreme Court, whether it's through fear or respect or friendships, I don't know." "But I know some of the people that were involved on the other side, and I don't like them. I think they're real slime balls, and you gotta do what's right for the country. You gotta do what's right for the Constitution." TICK FUCKING TOCK to the corrupt fcks who want to use our courts to subvert America. Trump's not done with you.

HOLY CRAP! President Trump is DROPPING NUKES. "Well, I think that foreign, uh, interests are represented by people that I believe have undue influence." "They have a lot of influence over the Supreme Court, whether it's through fear or respect or friendships, I don't know." "But I know some of the people that were involved on the other side, and I don't like them. I think they're real slime balls, and you gotta do what's right for the country. You gotta do what's right for the Constitution." TICK FUCKING TOCK to the corrupt fcks who want to use our courts to subvert America. Trump's not done with you.

Gunther Eagleman™

30,041 views • 4 months ago

I asked anamitra why every VC is starting an accelerator: "As more traditional venture funds become stage agnostic, they don't want to lose sight of the formation stage companies. If you lose that, then you become one of 20 VC's trying to invest in any one round. In the past, they've had seed programs for this. And Seed programs historically have been promoted by younger people at those funds, because they're closer to the metal. And seed funds have gone through cycles. They grow, and then they collapse when founders realize Seed deals at these stage agnostic fund don't convert. So they got disintermediated, and the best founders all go to the angels and the seed funds. And then they grow again, and then they collapse again. And every time, all the young people leave the big funds. And that has happened over cycles for a long time. The Series A funds have been trying to penetrate Seed for a long time. And even if you didn't have a good Seed program, you had YC, and Techstars, and all the other accelerators, which would give you great deal flow. And you could go to the demo days and pick up the good ones. And the cool thing, back in the day, was you didn't actually have to wait for the demo day. You could access the companies before demo day, and make the deals beforehand. Even if you wait until demo day, it's wasn't that bad. You could still get decent ownership at $15m or $10m post-money valuations. And then, YC made two changes to their program. One of the big changes that they made sure companies wait until demo day. And the second was introducing the $375k uncapped MFM SAFE. Which incentivized founders to raise their next round at as high a price as possible. So now, founders were incentivized to raise at demo day, and at as high a price as possible. What used to be $10-15m valuation, are now $20m, $25m, and even up to $40m. And so, many funds were who were reliant on deals from YC saw their entry prices suddenly shoot up. And the question for them became, what do we do? If your average entry point was $10 million on a YC deal, it suddenly went up to $40m. You basically cut your returns by 75%. So if your strategy was doing all these YC deals, and getting a 4x return on your fund, everything was good. Suddenly with the new entry prices, you're getting 1x on your fund. And that's not good. For founders, YC gives you a halo, some brand value. They do a ton of programming and help you learn about building a company. Every founder wants to be part of that. No question about it. Look at the roster of companies that they've invested in. At the same time, there are some founders who may want a better option. Who may believe that their company is worth more than $1.8 million. And they should have an option. So I think, investors saw that their entry prices at demo day were going up. And founders are entering these accelerators at $1.8m post. And investors thought, there has to be a price in the middle that we can offer and give founders another option. And that's why they've all started accelerators. And as a result, what's happening is founders now have more choice. So the question now becomes, what do the best founders decide to do? Now that they have more options, what are they going to pick? And so, it makes a lot of sense to me to see these other funds try their own programs. And if they are committed, and focused, and they're able to source and market well, they're going to do really well. As they do really well, that's going to create a positive virtual cycle for future founders to decide which one should they pick. And they'll all have better options. So it's just going to get more competitive. And I would argue, this might have all been started because of the change in the YC deal. If the deal hadn't changed, would we have seen so much downstream impact?"

The Peel

28,637 views • 1 year ago

Asmongold on why he hasn't commented much on Denims’ lawsuit and why he hopes she loses "I hope she doesn't win..I didn't really talk about that bc I don't know what the ramifications are..and the only ppl posting about it were the usual glazer accounts so I'm like ok is this legitimate or not..but I think that she should lose" "If u upload somebody else's content with the express and stated goal of trying to deprive that person from revenue, I think that just that on its own..should be grounds for it not to be fair use..fair use is explicitly not being a market alternative and if she is stating that it is a market alternative, then I don't know how anybody could say that's fair use" "That's not a win for anybody if she wins that case..at that point, it says that effectively u can react to and upload another YT video, say that ur doing it to take views away from the creator..fundamentally it was malicious, what she did” “So no I don't want to see somebody win and get off free for something that they literally admitted was malicious..idk why anybody's thinking that's a good thing"

Asmongold on why he hasn't commented much on Denims’ lawsuit and why he hopes she loses "I hope she doesn't win..I didn't really talk about that bc I don't know what the ramifications are..and the only ppl posting about it were the usual glazer accounts so I'm like ok is this legitimate or not..but I think that she should lose" "If u upload somebody else's content with the express and stated goal of trying to deprive that person from revenue, I think that just that on its own..should be grounds for it not to be fair use..fair use is explicitly not being a market alternative and if she is stating that it is a market alternative, then I don't know how anybody could say that's fair use" "That's not a win for anybody if she wins that case..at that point, it says that effectively u can react to and upload another YT video, say that ur doing it to take views away from the creator..fundamentally it was malicious, what she did” “So no I don't want to see somebody win and get off free for something that they literally admitted was malicious..idk why anybody's thinking that's a good thing"

yeet

54,053 views • 1 month ago

"There a couple of franchises that are pretty iconic just because of the history that they have, location that they're in, sometimes even the building that they're in and New York is definitely one of the few that you could say that to in all three facets... I don't really think about the tough times they've had because everyone has tough times.. you just want to try the best you can to be a part of whatever you can to being joy to the city, to the organization... I feel blessed, fortunate, lucky to be a part of what's going on now" Mike Brown on leading New York to a new era of golden basketball:

"There a couple of franchises that are pretty iconic just because of the history that they have, location that they're in, sometimes even the building that they're in and New York is definitely one of the few that you could say that to in all three facets... I don't really think about the tough times they've had because everyone has tough times.. you just want to try the best you can to be a part of whatever you can to being joy to the city, to the organization... I feel blessed, fortunate, lucky to be a part of what's going on now" Mike Brown on leading New York to a new era of golden basketball:

SNY Knicks

28,690 views • 1 month ago

Down rounds carry a stigma, but they're not always the end of a startup’s story. Charles Hudson of Precursor Ventures shares an example of a company that survived a difficult fundraising process involving a down round and investor-friendly terms. It wasn't easy, but making the hard financing decision ultimately gave the company a chance to keep building. For founders, the lesson is simple: The best fundraising outcome isn't always the highest valuation — it's the one that keeps your business alive. Get more of Hudson’s advice in the latest episode of our Build Mode podcast right here:

Down rounds carry a stigma, but they're not always the end of a startup’s story. Charles Hudson of Precursor Ventures shares an example of a company that survived a difficult fundraising process involving a down round and investor-friendly terms. It wasn't easy, but making the hard financing decision ultimately gave the company a chance to keep building. For founders, the lesson is simple: The best fundraising outcome isn't always the highest valuation — it's the one that keeps your business alive. Get more of Hudson’s advice in the latest episode of our Build Mode podcast right here:

TechCrunch

33,229 views • 7 days ago

How to REALLY use the Crash Pad Jr! A lot of people think these things are significantly worse than Shockwaves, when in reality they're actually very similar! Here's the basics on how to PROPERLY use them. Whether you like them or not, best I can do is help you get used to them

How to REALLY use the Crash Pad Jr! A lot of people think these things are significantly worse than Shockwaves, when in reality they're actually very similar! Here's the basics on how to PROPERLY use them. Whether you like them or not, best I can do is help you get used to them

Chug!!

26,485 views • 6 months ago

Rod Brind'Amour knows the #Canes have to keep the foot on the gas as the series shifts to Ottawa... "If you think anything but your best is going to get it done, don't come. Don't go out there. The only way you win is to bring your best."

Rod Brind'Amour knows the #Canes have to keep the foot on the gas as the series shifts to Ottawa... "If you think anything but your best is going to get it done, don't come. Don't go out there. The only way you win is to bring your best."

Walt Ruff

74,655 views • 2 months ago