Howard Webb arguing that PGMOL needs to put processes in place to protect VARs from ‘the tunnel vision effect’ caused by the processes he’s already put in place. • Premier League’s own footage also demonstrates Semi Automated Offside Technology completely misjudging the point at which the ball was crossed.... • The officials are still using visual guesswork to decide the ball’s kick point. • And calling the SAOT system ‘Genius’…show more

We’ll be here in 30 years time with the VAR box looking like NASA Mission Control and they’ll still be making mistakes. It’s insanity.

Exactly.

So.... A system put in place to PREVENT mistakes.... Now needs a second line of checks against mistakes THEY make... Even though they have the benefit of technology? Really?? Here's a thought... Why not just scrap VAR and rely on the officials on the field....

Exactly.

@Benjami79783607 Because the officials are awful and incompetent. If they can’t get it right with video, can you imagine how many errors without video. Get the best officials from all over the world, oh then handsomely and hold them accountable because the talent does not exist in England.

@DuncanCastles Refs have been making errors for decades... And now VAR is doing the same. So, tell me... Exactly how is VAR an improvement?

@DuncanCastles Because refs errors would be far more. The standard of refereeing has gone down significantly

@DuncanCastles Show me your workings; suggest a 50 year period for credibility....

This audio highlighted that it was much worse than anyone thought. You could hear excitement in the voice when like you said they guessed when the ball was kicked. The cartoon image was in a completely different body position than was shown in the real image. That before we

Good points. Especially about the 'cartoon image'. It remains incredible that neither FIFA, UEFA nor the Premier League have provided independent evidence of the accuracy of their SAOT systems. We are expected to take their accuracy and reliability on trust, and shown computer-generated images as 'proof' of offside decisions.

@banx82 Who and how have they tested the SOAT systems? Do we know the tolerance considered? It’s baffling that they are using guesswork to predict the point of contact. Such a flawed system and to add to that we have people using “tunnel vision” as an excuse.

@banx82 No, we do not. It is laughable that these systems have been implemented without a proper independent demonstration of their effectiveness, accuracy and tolerances.

It is the process-driven, middle management approach that is causing most of the problems. The laws of the game are simple, indeed the game itself is simplicity in action, but instead of using VAR as a tool to spot the obvious, it has become a “process.” Sad.

Agree with much of what you are saying. Sadly the Laws of the Game are no longer simple thanks to the poorly thought-out rewrites of David Elleray. And multiple attempts to redraft previously straightforward laws in a vain attempt to assist VAR.

Yes, you are right. The beauty of the laws of the game was always that ( going right back to the days of Stanley Rous) they were simple. The changes you mention are another example of a middle-management, process-driven mentality. Change is needed.

Webb’s tenure has highlighted a fundamental flaw in PGMOL culture: institutional self-preservation over officiating accuracy

Total chaos in the VAR room. Compare that to how Rugby Union do it. Very structured, very calm and communication is key. This lot seem to be under pressure to get it done asap and it's the complete opposite. Typical of football to screw it up. 🙄

There are major concerns for me: -Nobody in the VAR booth is looking at what actually happened -There doesn’t appear to be a robust process or sequence -They’re panicked about time -They have an outcome in mind before completing the steps The people are the problem.

You're saying VAR is flawed so that officials like Mike Dean can run the game without accountability and the boys club can continue making their own rules. You'd rather return the game to the middle ages rather than hold the officials accountable.

No. I didn’t say any of that.

You agreed to its removal here. If Pro Ref can assess the incident and get it right, why can't the guys at Stockley Park get it right the first time? It's a human resource issue, not a technical issue.

Read the article. It explains why it's impossible to get a significant number of these decisions objectively right under all circumstances. The idea of perfect VAR-assisted refereeing is a seductive illusion. It does not - and cannot - exist.

VAR isn't perfect but it doesn't have a bias the way a human does. With the existence of video you can hold the referee accountable or at least challenge him in real time. Remove VAR and we're left with biased officials whose word is final. That's too much power.

We have never had officials whose word is absolutely final. There has always been a degree of post-match oversight - and that would remain if VAR was scrapped.

Post-match? when the results are already set in stone? Calafiori scores against Chelsea, the goal is given. Linesman had not flagged for Konsa's offside, VAR correctly rules the goal out. Without VAR that goal stands and any other day it's the difference between UCL and Europa

1) You will never get perfect refereeing decisions either with VAR or without VAR. It's impossible. 2) You cannot know whether any of these specific refereeing decisions you refer to would have been called correctly in a system where there is no VAR and official act differently.

The human factor can't be erased

Honestly just scrap it FFS. People can deal with shit decisions made in real time. We can't deal with shit decisions that are still wrong after 3/4/5 minutes of drawing lines and trying to find reasons etc.

The whole thing is not fit for purpose. It needs scraping it’s killing the enjoyment of the game. VAR tech is not the issue it’s the interpretation of it by officials that are not good enough. Webb also needs to leave he’s not improved the game at all

Maybe just trust the linesman? No one has asked him if he flagged for Endo or Haaland and he had the best view

His surname is ironic because he’s tangled himself right up here in word salad. Talking to football fans like a LinkedIn consultant won’t solve anything. The linesman called this correctly and was then completely undermined. System is convoluted and unfit beyond repair.

These wrong decisions can impact on a teams league position at the end of the season. City might win the league by 1 point that includes the 2 extra ones they got on Sunday. United might get relegated because of the 1 point not gained on Sunday.

Howard Webb needs to go. What has improved since he took over? What has he delivered? The standard of reffing and VAR has declined even more under his leadership. In any other walk of life someone in a position would have been sacked and replaced long ago.

Howard Webb is an abject failure. Why has he not been removed?

Even Micheal Oliver Knew something was wrong

One instances that MLS has a better procedure for review- uses multiple cameras to have a look at close calls. No lines, computer models. Just have a look to eliminate obvious errors. If it's too close to call without enhanced views & multiple cameras, it's too close to call!

Irrespective of whether this is a right or wrong decision this level of micromanaging the game has to be removed. It’s sucked the air out of the game.

The problem is the officials using it. We need AI to use the var. AI would have looked at the bruno kick rated it 9/10 for petulance and had him sent off and the game would be united 10 v city 11

The problem is VAR itself. It does not matter who is using it, VAR is fundamentally flawed. Adding AI into the mix would be still worse. Watch the video - the AI SAOT system generates a completely inaccurate kickpoint for cross to Haaland.

Make referees redundant

Let’s just face it, proref, PGMOL or whatever…are not capable of handling this, just spending a shitload of money, getting no quality/ROI! If they are not capable of looking at all those screens/angles and take the right decision. I mean this happens every round in the prem🤢🤷🏽‍♂️

Marginal offsides should be allowed to make the game interesting. It should not be used for 1 inch 3 inch calls. It kills the game. And VAR should recommend only the changes when there is a blunder committed.

haaland was even inches ahead of dorgu's feet. These guys are just corrupt.

I feel offside should be given even if he'd not moved towards the ball. Why have they made offside so complicated? If he's over a yard offside in the centre of the goal, he will be interfering with the CBs decision making and the GKs reactions whatever he does.

8 years later they still can't make it work.

They are so obsessed with the minutiae that they repeatedly miss the bigger picture. As a season-ticket holder I absolute detest VAR because of the total incompetence of the officials. I would happily scrap it in an instant.

This is actually laughable now 😂🤡

So they all lost their Jobs right ? I mean if not than just get rid of VAR at this Point. You wanna tell me there is a Room with 4 People and no one said a Word about Fernandez LOL

Howard Webb just talking shit. How’s he still in a job?

Yes, more processes and procedures and checks. That’s exactly what the game needs.

Haaland's knee is clearly offside anyway so they fucked it even more

This show needs to be live and he needs to be questioned by more experienced people then that twerp Michael Owen

It's's the over complication of basic rules. Handball & offside particularly. They spend so much time searching for technicalities all common sense has been removed. E.g if a an attacker is even within the vicinity of a defender, by default they are impacting the game.