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BITCOIN RAILS #69: ZERO-KNOWLEDGE PROOFS FOR POST-QUANTUM BITCOIN | with Benedikt Bünz 🔗 YOUTUBE: 🌿 SPOTIFY: While many Bitcoiners remain hopeful the network will embrace zero-knowledge proofs for protocol-level use cases, practical adoption has remained limited outside of BitVM and a handful of experimental proposals. Most of the world’s... show more
27 条评论
I'm here to study this seriously🫡🫡
Awesome 😎 highly recommend
Hash-based signatures + ZKPs + BIP 360 👀
Yesssss 🙌
Wild that quantum risk might be what finally gets Bitcoiners to embrace ZK. Is signature batching the use case that gets it over the line?🧐🧐🧐
I think it might be! But @benediktbuenz gives his full argument in the show :)
@benediktbuenz I’ve added @benediktbuenz to my list and will be keeping an eye on his views🥰
@benediktbuenz Oh good call - he’s a legend
@benediktbuenz I'm glad to have met @benediktbuenz through you; we are all building Bitcoin—we are a family🫡
1/n Hash-based gets very few chance to be efficient multi-sig, lattice gets few either. "However, Alex has explicitly stated,he prefers to use multi-signature and cold storage schemes, that is, everything uses multi-signature cold storage. This does involve a major trade-off."
Saved to watch!
Very bullish
💯💯
Great guest. This was very informative.
agreed! 🙏🙏
Insightful watch right here ☝️
Great work, Isabel
Thanks! 🙏 amazing guest 😍
🔥🔥🔥🔥
shout out in this episode to @Leishman
Worth a listen. 🎧
🙏🫶🙏🫶
Cc @lightcoin @januszg_ @EspressoSys @liameagen @robin_linus @Ethan_Heilman @conduition_io
nice pull from the field!
💯💯
Quantum era is knocking Bitcoin better listen now
For more info on @benediktbuenz proving system for PQ signatures, check out “Flock” here:
![BITCOIN RAILS #61: QUANTUM CRYPTOGRAPHY FOR BITCOIN | with Dan Boneh Dan Boneh 🔗 YOUTUBE: 🌿 SPOTIFY: One of the most prolific and influential cryptographers in the world, it’s difficult to fully quantify the impact that Dan Boneh has had on Bitcoin and digital assets more broadly. Through both his own research and his mentorship of some of the space’s most important contributors — e.g. Andrew Poelstra, Benedikt Bünz ☕️, and Robin Linus ⛊ — few people have done more to shape the cryptographic foundations underlying modern blockchains and digital finance. More recently, Dan co-authored Google's widely discussed paper, “Securing Elliptic Curve Cryptocurrencies against Quantum Vulnerabilities,” which reduced prior estimates of the resources required to run Shor’s algorithm against the elliptic-curve cryptography used by Bitcoin. The paper reignited debate around quantum computing timelines and the long-term security assumptions behind modern cryptocurrencies. In this episode of Bitcoin Rails, Dan and I discuss the current state of quantum computing, its potential implications for Bitcoin, and how he believes the Bitcoin community should think about preparing for a post-quantum future over the coming decade and beyond. And yes, Dan shares his take on the “when quantum” question in the interview, among other key perspectives. This episode of Bitcoin Rails is brought to you by my NEW sponsors: LayerTwo Labs LayerTwo Labs — developing research, software, and technologies for scaling Bitcoin via the integration of Drivechains (BIP 300/301) Hashi on Sui — a primitive for executing Bitcoin Defi transactions, without having to trust a federated bridge or other centralized entity BitBox BitBox — an open-source Bitcoin-only hardware wallet, with smooth UX and no compromises on security. Check out Bitbox [dot] swiss and use code BITCOINRAILS to get a discount TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 — Intro and Dan’s history with cryptography and Bitcoin 11:44 — Shor's algorithm: how a 1994 paper became cryptography's most important threat 16:39 — Building a quantum computer: superconducting qubits vs neutral atoms 25:37 — When should we start worrying about quantum computers? The timeline debate 31:51 — Have we already reached quantum computing's “ahá” moment? 39:09 — Inside the Google paper: how Shor's algorithm was optimized 49:57 — The Bitcoin mempool attack and the 10-minute window 59:21 — Mitigation: what should Bitcoin do to prepare for quantum? 1:11:54 — Hash-based vs lattice-based signatures: Dan's case for lattice 1:23:15 — ZK proofs, BIP361, and what to do with Satoshi's coins 1:31:52 — Encrypted mempools and MEV 1:38:29 — Why Bitcoin will survive quantum and Dan's message to Bitcoin builders](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2057110642662797602/amplify_video_thumb/2057106711635275776/img/Pa2J_IxNMDKku2uu.jpg)
![BITCOIN RAILS #70: THE CASE FOR LATTICE-BASED SIGNATURES IN BITCOIN | with CTO of Ledger Charles Guillemet 🔗 YouTube: 🌿 Spotify: To date, post-quantum Bitcoin discussions have largely centered on which digital signature schemes offer the strongest cryptographic security against a quantum adversary. But cryptographic assumptions are only one dimension of security. Different signature schemes introduce different implementation and operational risks. How should Bitcoin weigh cryptographic conservatism against the complexity required to deploy that cryptography safely? While hash-based signatures are often favored for their conservative assumptions, CTO of Ledger, Charles Guillemet Charles Guillemet argues that evaluating primitives in isolation can obscure consequential risks at the systems level. Stateful hash-based schemes, in particular, introduce state-management requirements where operational or user error can have catastrophic consequences —despite their conservative cryptographic foundations. In this interview, Charles and I examine the tradeoffs of hash-based signatures and his case for greater consideration of lattice-based alternatives, i.e. ML-DSA. A very juicy episode for anyone seriously assessing Bitcoin's post-quantum design landscape. This episode of Bitcoin Rails is brought to you by: LayerTwo Labs LayerTwo Labs — developing research, software, and technologies for scaling Bitcoin via the integration of Drivechains (BIP 300/301) Hashi on Sui — a primitive for executing Bitcoin DeFi transactions, without having to trust a federated bridge or other centralized entity BitBox BitBox — an open-source Bitcoin-only hardware wallet, with smooth UX and no compromises on security. Check out Bitbox [dot] swiss and use code BITCOINRAILS to get a discount TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 — Intro 01:45 — How the quantum threat became real for Ledger 09:06 — NIST influence and what Ledger built into its SDK 21:25 — ML-DSA and why Falcon might not be the right choice 25:33 — The problem with hash-based signatures 31:38 — Stateful signatures and the throughput problem 36:48 — Does user error outweigh the security difference? 42:27 — Bitcoin post-quantum migration scenario 45:15 — Maintaining multisig capabilities in a post-quantum world 55:54 — NIST standardization process and the backdoor question 1:01:06 — Trezor's approach and device authentication 1:06:09 — Ledger’s approach to post-quantum signatures](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2092273519111385579/amplify_video_thumb/2092271558660165632/img/vLAew2F7HN1yExrB.jpg)
![BITCOIN RAILS #59: Post-Quantum Bitcoin Signatures (+ their tradeoffs) | with BIP 360 co-author Ethan ✨ is on BlueSky✨ Heilman 🐱 and Blockstream Head of Research Jonas Nick 🔗 YOUTUBE: 🌿 SPOTIFY: According to BIP 360 co-author Ethan Heilman, Bitcoin needs a minimum of two soft forks to become quantum resistant: P2MR (or an output type that can safely execute PQ signatures) + a post-quantum checksig (signature scheme). Ethan and the BIP 360 team (including myself and Hunter Beast 🕯️) introduced the P2MR part via a BIP 360 update late last year—but the question remains, what’s the most appropriate PQ signature scheme for Bitcoin? They all have substantive tradeoffs, but hash-based signatures seem to be leading technical discourse—likely due to recent optimizations by Jonas Nick and the broader Blockstream research team. It was an honor to sit down with both of these men - arguably the two most influential and productive cryptographers in Bitcoin quantum mitigation right now - for an in-depth review of the leading PQ signature schemes and a temperature check on Bitcoin’s post-quantum planning process. TBH, if you want to skip the noise and jump straight to the signal on quantum, this is the interview to watch. In this episode, we discuss: - What needs to happen at the soft fork, infra, and mitigation levels to fully quantum-harden Bitcoin - Recent updates to BIP 360 + breakdown of the leading hash-based signatures schemes for Bitcoin (SHRINCS + SHRIMPS) - Why we may actually get consensus around a stateful scheme for Bitcoin - Comparisons of hash-based signatures vs Lattice and Isogeny-based schemes - Assessing the risks of both waiting too long and acting too fast (and why quantum is a better threat to be facing than a potential classical attack) This episode of Bitcoin Rails is brought to you by my NEW sponsors: - LayerTwo Labs LayerTwo Labs — developing research, software, and technologies for scaling Bitcoin via the integration of Drivechains (BIP 300/301) - Hashi on Sui — a primitive for executing Bitcoin Defi transactions, without having to trust a federated bridge or other centralized entity - BitBox BitBox — an open-source Bitcoin-only hardware wallet, with smooth UX and no compromises on security. Check out Bitbox [dot] swiss and use code BITCOINRAILS to get a discount TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Intro 02:18 Ethan’s Quantum Wakeup 05:18 How Blockstream Enters Post Quantum 09:25 BIP 360 Explained 12:11 How Bitcoin Transitions to PQ 17:35 Choosing Post Quantum Signatures 23:20 How Blockstream Created SHRINCS 27:22 Signature Budgets Importance Explained 41:13 What are SHRIMPS? 44:51 SHRIMPS vs SHRINCS 47:48 Why SLH-DSA Alone Won’t Cut It 49:24 Is a SHRIMPS + SHRINCS BIP Coming? 51:51 Blockstream’s Big Plans for Liquid 59:04 Quantum Readiness Roadmap 01:02:22 Importance of a PQ Recovery Plan 01:05:35 How Long Would a PQ Migration Take 01:11:17 Quantum Watchlist Recommendations](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2051672209454756108/amplify_video_thumb/2051671562672082952/img/GYI9mVH4-kcDz2Gz.jpg)
![BITCOIN RAILS #62: BITCOIN'S 3 BIGGEST CHALLENGES | with Neha Narula Director of Digital Currency Initiative (DCI) Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) 🔗 YOUTUBE: 🌱 SPOTIFY: Neha Narula is the Director of the MIT Digital Currency Initiative, where she focuses on Bitcoin research and the broader design tradeoffs of decentralized money systems. Her work often centers on what Bitcoin gets right—and where it runs into hard limits—especially around scaling, decentralization, and how systems behave as global demand increases. In this interview, Neha and I explore longer-term risks to Bitcoin—including advancements in quantum computing and the implications of a diminishing block subsidy—as well as the ongoing challenge of scaling Bitcoin without losing access to self-custody. A thoughtful conversation on how Bitcoin may change in the coming years, we also explore its social and governance dynamics—including tensions within the development community over protocol changes, scaling philosophies, and the future direction of the system. This episode of Bitcoin Rails is brought to you by: LayerTwo Labs LayerTwo Labs — developing research, software, and technologies for scaling Bitcoin via the integration of Drivechains (BIP 300/301) Hashi on Sui — a primitive for executing Bitcoin Defi transactions, without having to trust a federated bridge or other centralized entity BitBox BitBox— an open-source Bitcoin-only hardware wallet, with smooth UX and no compromises on security. Check out Bitbox [dot] swiss and use code BITCOINRAILS to get a discount TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Intro 00:17 Neha’s Origins 02:26 Bitcoin to MIT 04:40 Media Lab Culture and Mission 11:34 CBDCs as Digital Cash Debate 24:42 Funding Model and Bitcoin Security Budget 29:55 Reorg Risk and Quantum Computing 32:14 Bitcoin Dev Funding Map 42:49 Governance and Corporate Stakes 50:23 Quantum Tradeoffs Framework 56:02 Post Quantum Proposals 58:59 Prioritize PQ Transactions 01:00:54 Satoshi Coins Debate 01:02:12 Mining Incentives And Price 01:08:08 Corporate Funding And Governance 01:10:54 Scaling Self Custody And L2s 01:20:30 Bitcoin Kernel And Wrap Up](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2059683810682220662/amplify_video_thumb/2059680624261083138/img/zFnXZj4lB8Z3l2qG.jpg)
![BITCOIN RAILS #63: Bitcoin's threshold for trust-minimization—without a soft fork | with Sam Blackshear Sam Blackshear 🔗 YOUTUBE: 🌱 SPOTIFY: Some of the most impressive technical and commercial leaders in digital assets emerged from what insiders call the "Libra Mafia" — the team assembled by Meta to build Libra (later Diem). Though the project ultimately succumbed to regulatory pressure, it produced a generation of founders and engineers who went on to shape the industry, including Sam Blackshear (Sam Blackshear), a leading expert in blockchain programming languages and CTO of MystenLabs.sui In this episode of Bitcoin Rails, Sam joins me to discuss: - Why Mysten Labs has turned its focus toward Bitcoin + why Sam leans conservative on soft-fork changes to Bitcoin script - What makes a strong crypto programming language + why EVM is missing the mark - Why trust minimization remains the critical technical challenge standing between Bitcoin and broader DeFi adoption - Why Mysten Lab's new Hashi architecture may be the most trust-minimized architecture for Bitcoin "bridging" without a soft fork This episode of Bitcoin Rails is brought to you by: LayerTwo Labs LayerTwo Labs — developing research, software, and technologies for scaling Bitcoin via the integration of Drivechains (BIP 300/301) Hashi on Sui — a primitive for executing Bitcoin DeFi transactions, without having to trust a federated bridge or other centralized entity BitBox BitBox — an open-source Bitcoin-only hardware wallet, with smooth UX and no compromises on security. Check out Bitbox [dot] swiss and use code BITCOINRAILS to get a discount TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 — Intro 01:09 — Sam's Origin Story 04:40 — Building Move Inside Libra 10:18 — Why Sui Looks Like Bitcoin 15:55 — Libra Dies & Sui Is Born 23:06 — Quantum Resistance & Sui's Cryptography 28:24 — Bitcoin's Programmability Problem 34:39 — How Hashi Works 38:00 — Hashi's Trust Assumptions 53:54 — Why Nobody Else Could Build This 56:24 — The Future of Building on Bitcoin](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2062564613053444494/amplify_video_thumb/2062546583900610560/img/Er7EmLe5lKUB330R.jpg)
![BITCOIN RAILS #72: Bitcoin's Leading Post-Quantum Signature Proposal | with SHRINCS co-author conduition 🔗 YouTube: 🌿 Spotify: The first fully specified post-quantum signature scheme for Bitcoin has been proposed to the Bitcoin mailing list. The proposal introduces a full specification for “SHRINCS,” a hash-based signature scheme initially conceived by Jonas Nick and Mikhail Kudinov of Blockstream Research Blockstream — with specification details added by new co-authors conduition remix and BIP 360 co-author Ethan ✨ is on BlueSky✨ Heilman 🐱 Today, I’m honored to share a full whiteboard explanation of the scheme by its co-author Conduition — as well as a thorough discussion of the scheme’s key tradeoffs when compared to Bitcoin’s existing elliptic-curve signatures and competing post-quantum alternatives. In more detail, this interview includes: — A full whiteboard walkthrough of the scheme’s key components and its relationship to the NIST-standardized scheme SPHINCS+ — SHRINCs’ introduction of a compact stateful path - yes, I said stateful 🌶️ — Whiteboard explanations of all relevant cryptographic subschemes, including FORS, WOTS+C, and XMSS — Thorough discussion of the scheme’s tradeoffs and implications for Bitcoin’s existing functionality If you have a vested interest in understanding what may be the future signature scheme protecting Bitcoin transactions in a post-quantum world, this episode is a must-watch. WARNING: this episode is fairly technical — don't beat yourself up if you don't catch everything, or need to watch it a few times to grok the details. This episode of Bitcoin Rails is brought to you by: LayerTwo Labs LayerTwo Labs — developing research, software, and technologies for scaling Bitcoin via the integration of Drivechains (BIP 300/301) Hashi on Sui — a primitive for executing Bitcoin DeFi transactions, without having to trust a federated bridge or other centralized entity BitBox BitBox — an open-source Bitcoin-only hardware wallet, with smooth UX and no compromises on security. Check out Bitbox [dot] swiss and use code BITCOINRAILS to get a discount TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 — Intro 01:26 — The SHRINCS BIP and how conduition got here 05:26 — Building slhvk and joining the Blockstream working group 08:34 — Why hash-based signatures, even without quantum 14:08 — What SPHINCS is and what stateless really means 18:45 — Losing count and why state is dangerous 24:44 — SHRINCS and the stateless backup WHITEBOARD SESSION STARTS HERE: 30:30 — Inside the SHRINCS public key 34:39 — Winternitz signatures and hypertrees 43:18 — Signature sizes and witness discount 51:42 — Inside the stateful side and FXMSS 1:01:25 — Where the stateful and stateless sides differ 1:08:50 — UXMSS, BXMSS and getting wallet devs up to speed 1:19:03 — FORS and the forest of random subsets 1:34:24 — What Bitcoin gives up with hash-based signatures 1:39:08 — Migration and where SHRINCS could be deployed](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2092971357797499071/amplify_video_thumb/2092969885244542976/img/cTncZSr6A48J7yq8.jpg)
![BITCOIN RAILS #71: Expecting Hardforks | with Drivechains author Paul Sztorc 🔗 YouTube: 🌿 Spotify: Paul Sztorc founder and CEO of LayerTwo Labs and author of Bitcoin Improvement Proposals 300 and 301 (Drivechains), has been one of Bitcoin's most persistent—and controversial—thinkers, advocating for merge-mined sidechains as a way to dramatically expand Bitcoin's functionality while preserving the security of the base layer. Following our previous episode introducing his proposed Bitcoin hard fork, eCash, we discuss how the project has evolved in recent months, what to expect when the fork launches on mainnet, and Paul's perspectives on today's Layer 2 landscape and the soon-to-activate BIP 110 soft fork. An entertaining, popcorn-style conversation with one of Bitcoin's most unconventional thinkers, this episode offers diverse—and at times irreverent—commentary on some of the most important technical debates shaping Bitcoin's future. This episode of Bitcoin Rails is brought to you by: LayerTwo Labs LayerTwo Labs — developing research, software, and technologies for scaling Bitcoin via the integration of Drivechains (BIP 300/301) Hashi on Sui — a primitive for executing Bitcoin DeFi transactions, without having to trust a federated bridge or other centralized entity BitBox BitBox — an open-source Bitcoin-only hardware wallet, with smooth UX and no compromises on security. Check out Bitbox [dot] swiss and use code BITCOINRAILS to get a discount TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 — Intro 00:16 — The Coldcard exploit 09:37 — Can Bitcoin still soft fork? 15:30 — Paul's hard fork 26:12 — BIP 110's fork and the ghost of SegWit 42:03 — How drivechains work and eCash 53:00 — Quantum resistance and OP_CAT 1:01:44 — Launching a drivechain and the OP_RETURN debate 1:08:57 — The BIP 110 endgame: Udi trolling, hashrate, and Ocean 1:13:54 — Why Stratum V2 is a bad idea 1:20:33 — The decline of maximalism and the road ahead](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2085742991256309871/amplify_video_thumb/2085733171446857728/img/9r5k4zvl9-3k5wGH.jpg)
![PIPEs, Witness Encryption & the Future of Privacy on Bitcoin | with Misha Komarov and Clara Shikhelman 🔗 YouTube: Today, Alloc Init co-founder Misha Komarov and Head of Protocol Research ClaraS join me to unpack PIPEs — a framework that could potentially make binary covenants possible on Bitcoin without the need for a soft fork, enabling truly trustless bridges amongst other expressive functionality. Leveraging advancements in Witness Encryption — one of the most cutting-edge areas of advanced theoretical cryptography — PIPEs enables the execution of Bitcoin signatures by proving correct computation (e.g. of account balances on layer 2s and metaprotocols). Although the underlying cryptographic assumptions remain experimental and unhardened, Komarov and Shikhelman believe PIPEs could deliver the functionality of covenant-enabling upgrades like OP_CAT without the need for protocol-level changes—making PIPEs one of the most significant potential developments for Bitcoin since the advent of BitVM. The team also announced their first proposed use case this morning: a privacy protocol titled "Shielded Bitcoin." In this episode, we unpack the theory and the practice of how this technology is evolving — and what the new road ahead looks like for PIPEs, Shielded Bitcoin and beyond. This episode of Bitcoin Rails is brought to you by: LayerTwo Labs LayerTwo Labs — developing research, software, and technologies for scaling Bitcoin via the integration of Drivechains (BIP 300/301) Hashi on Sui — a primitive for executing Bitcoin DeFi transactions, without having to trust a federated bridge or other centralized entity BitBox BitBox — an open-source Bitcoin-only hardware wallet, with smooth UX and no compromises on security. Check out Bitbox [dot] swiss and use code BITCOINRAILS to get a discount TIMESTAMPS: 🎙️ 01:42 Tying PIPEs to the mission at [[alloc] init] 🔓 08:31 Defining witness encryption and conditional decryption 🛠️ 23:59 Shifting from functional encryption (PIPEs v1) to witness encryption 📜 26:17 Outlining pre-covenants vs. post-covenants on Bitcoin 🏎️ 39:37 Why PIPEs v2 is far from the end of the road 🌐 56:57 Building meta-protocols and avoiding external sequencer risks 👀 1:05:00 Implementing optional compliant privacy via viewing keys ⚡ 1:15:33 Comparing PIPEs to BitVM and rendering BIPs obsolete 🎲 1:23:07 Evaluating the min-rank hardness assumption](https://image.24vids.com/tw-2103153026441593024/amplify_video_thumb/2103138197748236288/img/8fzu26iswQ0PPTH9.jpg)