Do these former Calvinists understand Calvinism?

@beready4rapture They were never true Calvinists. Evanescent Calvinism.

@beready4rapture That is great! a new term. Evanescent Calvinism!

This is heartbreaking. Seriously. Calvinism is just…… ugh.

Indeed!

@beready4rapture You are using apostates and their unregenerate mind as a valid critique against Calvinism??? They can’t understand spiritual things because they are blind.

@beready4rapture Don’t you believe what they are saying about Calvinism is true? If so, how is it that atheists can understand Calvinism, while Christians are often told that they simply don’t understand it? Can you explain how that makes sense?

@beready4rapture They don’t and can’t understand spiritual things. They are simply rebels twisting scripture like Satan in an attempt to blame God for their unbelief.

@CherylSchatz @beready4rapture "They are twisting scripture" in a way very similar to Calvinism "in an attempt to blame God for their unbelief".

@CherylSchatz @beready4rapture Not even close.

They indeed do understand it.

Which is quite something when a doctrine is understandable to an atheist, but not to a real born again Christ.

Not in the final analysis. They certainly do not accept they hold to their present views because they hate God and their neighbor, and that their unbelief is not born from ignorance, but from a wicked defiance of the Gospel for which they are responsible.

These guys are spiritual Morons. The Bible is very specific about how faith comes. So this whole dead in the grave thing is just a gaslight, the Bible says. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God. And that means that our hearing comes, ....also like in the first three chapters of revelation,... to him, who hath an ear to hear, let him hear what the spirit sayeth, well, the spirit when the good news actually penetrates our ears, faith comes. And then we act on that faith. The weird confusion and obstinates that's going on in this conversation is just wrong on so many levels. I don't think either one of these people are sincere. One is a cynic, and the other is a pharisee.

I think they do 🤔

I don't know what they believe. I know they are confused.

no.

Yes, yes they do....and this is ultimately where it leads

He explained it pretty well.

I don’t think the self-proclaimed Calvinists truly understand Calvinism if they disagree with the statements in the video.

Are you really looking to Derek Webb who went completely off the deep end? And that has NOTHING to do with Calvinism.

Most former Calvinist were never Calvinist at all. They were just riding the popular wave, YRR.

They left out the gospel. It is the hearing of the gospel and the work of the holy spirit when a person's heart is changed. Every born again Christian is commanded to proclaim the gospel to all. Election is of the Lord, it is His business, not ours. There is still hope for them.

CCC: Calvinism Confuses Christians

They understand Calvinism but don't understand Christianity. Their Calvinism has blocked their understanding. The doctrinal brainwashing of Calvinism has had and unexpected outcome.

Salvation isn’t a position you can reason yourself out of. So Christ was never their ultimate authority it was their own reasoning. They never surrendered their unbelief to Christ.

A Barbie doll has more testosterone than these two combined.

Poor Derek man. He’s just so desperate for attention and meaning. Makes me sad. I loved his music. He thinks he’s bigger than the gospel.

Why are they laughing?

Not their judge, but they appear to conflate secondary & ultimate cause; our experience of 2ndary causes (inc. our own choices) doesn't negate God's assertion that He is completely in control & the ultimate cause; Genesis 50:20 doesn't have God reacting to out-of-control choices.

To be honest, I don't give a hoot in Hell (Isaiah 34:11) whether they "understand Calvinism" or not; I would be VERY interested in knowing whether they've received Jesus Christ and been born again. They look like two drivers, stalled by the side of the road, arguing the merits of overhead vs. flathead transmissions. They're still stuck.

No. Hope that helps.

I'm a Calvinist in significant measure because of Derek's personal influence on me in college. Yes, Derek understands Calvinism intellectually, but he doesn't know Jesus, and that breaks my heart. He began to drift from the gospel in the mid 2000s.

No

You realise that Satan used scripture to try decieve even Jesus. I’m not Calvinst, but TULIP and predermenation is Biblical. You don’t necessarily have to understand it to be saved. But you do need to completely surrender to Christ and believe in his saving works only.

"I'm going to lay there in the grave until he shows up." Wow. Not planning is stupid. Planning to fail is far worse.

I think his intention is to pass on the teaching the way he was taught. Now, as an atheist, he has the perfect person to blame for it isn’t his fault, but rather it’s God’s fault!

🤔maybe it’s more like welfare… You know those who don’t want to have any responsibility, but still want to be fed. And even God said, if you don’t work, you don’t eat… Sorry, I see things in a different particular light sometimes.😅

Dumbest statement I’ve ever heard “if I’m not chosen. There’s nothing I can do about it”. This is a strawman argument. It shows you do not understand reformed theology at all!!!

Would they affirm this? Romans 10:9-10 …if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

“I don’t like binary statements.” Oh really. I couldn’t tell….

If they're "former" they certainly do.