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how should multimodal models encode visual input? → pretrained encoder? → encoder-free? → before the LLM? published models bundle these choices together. we trained 200+ models from scratch to see which of these choices matters only one of them does 🧵 [1/n]

98,594 просмотров • 1 день назад •via X (Twitter)

Комментарии: 17

Фото профиля Ellis Brown
Ellis Brown1 день назад

🌐 📄 see @choang333's thread for a deep dive 👇 [2/n]

Фото профиля Ellis Brown
Ellis Brown1 день назад

most multimodal models start from a pretrained encoder like SigLIP 2. Kimi K3 trains its encoder from scratch at the same compute and data, which is better? we trained everything from scratch, encoder pretraining counted in the budget [3/n]

Фото профиля Ellis Brown
Ellis Brown1 день назад

1️⃣ pretrained encoder? optional we pretrained encoders 4 ways (contrastive, SSL, captioning). at best they tie an encoder trained from scratch with the LLM even ignoring its cost, more encoder pretraining raises ImageNet but not necessarily VQA [4/n]

Фото профиля Ellis Brown
Ellis Brown1 день назад

2️⃣ encoder-free? trails at every size, ~3× the compute to catch up > but isn't it just smaller? give the LLM the encoder's 0.4B params (wider, deeper, or both) → text gets better → VQA doesn't [5/n]

Фото профиля Ellis Brown
Ellis Brown1 день назад

3️⃣ does that capacity have to come before the LLM? we test whether an encoder's capacity can move inside the backbone: in its first layers, image tokens get vision-only branches on every attention projection + FFN text tokens never touch them [6/n]

Фото профиля Ellis Brown
Ellis Brown1 день назад

🔑 reserve them for vision same 0.4B params, same layers: → widen the shared FFNs: 40.1 → add a branch for all tokens: 42.3 → make that branch vision-only: 45.0 an encoder gets 44.4 [7/n]

Фото профиля Ellis Brown
Ellis Brown1 день назад

🔑 put them early the same vision-only budget in every layer, spread through depth, or in the last layers → no better than encoder-free in the first layers, it's on par with the encoder, at every size [8/n]

Фото профиля Ellis Brown
Ellis Brown1 день назад

and it's faster an encoder has to finish before the LLM can start. in-fusion has no separate stage to wait for → 13% faster to first token at the encoder's 0.4B → and the gap grows with capacity: an encoder's added time climbs much faster than in-fusion's [9/n]

Фото профиля Ellis Brown
Ellis Brown1 день назад

so of those three questions, only one matters: does vision get its own parameters? not its own pretraining, and not its own encoder. vision-only params in the LLM's first layers do the job [10/n]

Фото профиля Ellis Brown
Ellis Brown1 день назад

Inkling's "encoder-free" stem, a 4-layer patch MLP, is still vision-only capacity, built to compress hi-res images into few tokens but Inkling 2 Small brought back an encoder 🧐🧐 [11/n]

Фото профиля Ellis Brown
Ellis Brown1 день назад

🤝@choang333 this has been a truly amazing collaboration. stay tuned for more 🔜 thank you to all of our collaborators @JasonQSY @ShangwenLi1 @ml_perception @gh_marjan @LukeZettlemoyer @giffmana @mengyer Jakob Verbeek @sainingxie @Hu_Hsu [11/n]

Фото профиля Ellis Brown
Ellis Brown1 день назад

@JasonQSY @ShangwenLi1 @ml_perception @gh_marjan @LukeZettlemoyer @giffmana @mengyer @sainingxie @Hu_Hsu 🧵[n/n] 📄 Paper: 🌐 Blog:

Фото профиля Wenhao Chai
Wenhao Chai1 день назад

@JasonQSY @ShangwenLi1 @ml_perception @gh_marjan @LukeZettlemoyer @mengyer @sainingxie @Hu_Hsu amazing results! congrats

Фото профиля pH
pH1 день назад

@mihirp98 @JasonQSY @ShangwenLi1 @ml_perception @gh_marjan @LukeZettlemoyer @mengyer @sainingxie @Hu_Hsu amazing work!!

Фото профиля Logan Bolton
Logan Bolton1 день назад

@JasonQSY @ShangwenLi1 @ml_perception @gh_marjan @LukeZettlemoyer @mengyer @sainingxie @Hu_Hsu Great work!

Фото профиля Martin Ronfort
Martin Ronfort1 день назад

@JasonQSY @ShangwenLi1 @ml_perception @gh_marjan @LukeZettlemoyer @mengyer @sainingxie @Hu_Hsu We actually went deeper on these architectural choices in our recent study of 200+ models:

Фото профиля bobolv
bobolv1 день назад

@JasonQSY @ShangwenLi1 @ml_perception @gh_marjan @LukeZettlemoyer @mengyer @sainingxie @Hu_Hsu 200+ models trained from scratch is the right way to settle this, since most vision-language papers change five things at once. If only one choice really matters, expect the encoder-free camp to get quiet fast. Which one was it?

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