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Some food for thought when designing benchmarks... So, here's a little computer-use (visual) comparison between GPT-5.6 Astra and Qwen3.8 Max. The task here was to recreate the image in the center using the Paint UI. Super interesting how the two different LLMs+Harnesses approached this totally differently by default. I.e.,...

25,821 次观看 • 1 个月前 •via X (Twitter)

40 条评论

Jean Pierre · fireply.ai 的头像
Jean Pierre · fireply.ai1 个月前

one paints like an artist, the other like a printer, non wonder the printer scores higher on being a printer

bob wang 的头像
bob wang1 个月前

Maybe test 3.8max on Codex? Let's see if the model variance is still that obvious under the same harness.

Sebastian Raschka 的头像
Sebastian Raschka1 个月前

Yeah unfortunately the Codex/ChatGPT app doesn't support third party LLMs. And the Codex CLI doesn't support computer use (i.e., UI use).

bob wang 的头像
bob wang1 个月前

I see.. and is this a typo? Did you mean GPT-6 Astra rather than GPT-5.6 Astra?

Sebastian Raschka 的头像
Sebastian Raschka1 个月前

Oh yeah that’s a typo lol

Ganesh 的头像
Ganesh1 个月前

I really love the insight you reached from the example (the part about generalization). The geometric approach clearly shows parsimony, which is more “beautiful” than the pixel-by-pixel approach.

Eco 的头像
Eco1 个月前

Qwen is better than I thought

Saksham Jain 的头像
Saksham Jain1 个月前

this measures the harness way more than the model. swap the click layer and your ranking flips.

Sebastian Raschka 的头像
Sebastian Raschka1 个月前

Yes, that's probably true

Alan Hourmand 的头像
Alan Hourmand1 个月前

Astra wins this for sure because it is abstractly trying to represent the reference

Nikhil Shah 的头像
Nikhil Shah1 个月前

Similar thing happens on our slides creation benchmark. Two slides can be very similar in looks but very different in further editability. And designing judges that take those params in account rather than just slide images is very challenging our design of judges:

Varun Teja 的头像
Varun Teja1 个月前

If that’s for real, that’s a huge knowledge gap.

Marius Laurusevicius 的头像
Marius Laurusevicius1 个月前

The scoring rule is doing the work here. A pixel similarity metric rewards the pixel by pixel strategy by construction, so it measures the harness default more than the model. Would reporting action count and wall clock next to the score separate those two?

Sebastian Raschka 的头像
Sebastian Raschka1 个月前

wall clock was actually quite similar, both took around ~20 min

MrOzi 的头像
MrOzi1 个月前

@MLaurusevicius If wall clock is tied at ~20 min, what metric actually separates them in production?

Sebastian Raschka 的头像
Sebastian Raschka1 个月前

@MLaurusevicius the trajectory

saietta 的头像
saietta1 个月前

the geometric-shapes approach is closer to what you'd want for real GUI work though. actually using layers, fills and selection tools generalizes to a different image, a raster pixel dump only proves it can reproduce this exact one.

Diegonov 的头像
Diegonov1 个月前

Qwen behave as you’d expect from a robot and astra more like a human

Victoria Neiman 的头像
Victoria Neiman1 个月前

perfect example. the benchmark says "qwen wins" because pixel-level copy scores higher. but astra's approach – decomposing the image into geometric primitives – is arguably stronger generalization. the score rewards reproduction, not understanding. two different strategies, one leaderboard.

This.is.Amin 的头像
This.is.Amin1 个月前

Holy smokes 🔥😳 Qwen plays on a different level

shb7 的头像
shb71 个月前

one paint task mostly tells you about the harness. astra grinding vs qwen finishing is the interesting bit, not who won

Gregor 的头像
Gregor1 个月前

the 'LLMs+Harnesses' callout is the real thing here if those differ, you're mostly benchmarking infrastructure choices, not models. my own prompt-format experiments moved accuracy more than model swaps did

Josh R Barry 的头像
Josh R Barry1 个月前

Benchmarks that reward the final pixels can hide a lot about the path taken to get there.

Vikas(Vik) Malpani| AI for US Real Estate 的头像
Vikas(Vik) Malpani| AI for US Real Estate1 个月前

Deeper issue: a task with one correct image is the wrong thing to benchmark generalization on. A crisp answer key rewards copying by design. Most real agent work has no target to diff against, so the thing you can score cleanly is, by that cleanliness, unlike production.

China OSS AI-lilxl 的头像
China OSS AI-lilxl1 个月前

pixel-by-pixel is basically converting a visual reasoning task into mechanical transcription. wins the similarity score while completely sidestepping the capability the benchmark thinks it's testing. textbook Goodhart.

Tony 的头像
Tony1 个月前

The shapes-versus-pixels detail is fascinating. I’d completely miss that difference if I only saw the finished pictures.

Necati Demir, Phd 的头像
Necati Demir, Phd1 个月前

What is the prompt? I am curious what would happen if we ask Astra to do it pixel by pixel?

Anees Merchant 的头像
Anees Merchant1 个月前

Output-only checks fool production pipelines too. I had generated images pass a file-type check and a dimensions check while one held only about a fifth of the picture, because the download was cut off. Only a check that walked the file's structure caught it.

Ben Mo 的头像
Ben Mo1 个月前

a follow-up edit could be revealing here. 'move the window to the other side' asks whether the approach left anything reusable, and gives you a different comparison from the initial screenshot

airplanestar 𓂀 的头像
airplanestar 𓂀1 个月前

visual computer-use benchmarks always expose how models handle feedback loops in real time. code is easy to verify, but UI actions show the real gap in spatial reasoning and agentic planning.

Akash 的头像
Akash1 个月前

the benchmark should score recovery from UI mistakes and end-state reliability too, not just visual similarity

Raven 的头像
Raven1 个月前

one drew the rocket with shapes, the other brought a pixel microscope

Ansh 的头像
Ansh1 个月前

As per the use. Which one do you think is a better choice to use. In terms of quality and in terms of pricing.

Shalva (Shako) Janashvili 的头像
Shalva (Shako) Janashvili1 个月前

A single screenshot hides the real failure mode. Pixel score tells you where it landed. The interaction trace tells you whether it had a plan.

Raymond Task 的头像
Raymond Task1 个月前

What as the prompt?

DML 🐂 🀄🧭 的头像
DML 🐂 🀄🧭1 个月前

Fairs

Anand Sharma 的头像
Anand Sharma1 个月前

This is the same blind spot that shows up when AI decisions get evaluated by outcome alone. A result that happens to land close to the target isn't proof the process behind it was sound. If you can't see how a system got there, the score is the only thing you're checking.

Siddharth Jain 的头像
Siddharth Jain1 个月前

the difference is being realistic and trying to be realistic, astra could have drawn the same thing , is it trying to be human? hence not drawing it near perfect?

Nayan Surya 的头像
Nayan Surya1 个月前

Benchmarks often reveal more about the prompt engineering or tool-use strategy than the core model itself.

Chanchana 🐳 的头像
Chanchana 🐳1 个月前

the difference in this case is mostly the aesthetic of the process. drawing large shapes mimick human painting so it is more beautiful. compare it to chess game, the AI could win either way but winning by beautiful moves are often more desirable by humans.

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