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This play is making the rounds so let's break it down. Murray never gets in legal guarding position since he gets beat initially and the contact is clear caused by the defender moving A to B into Shai's line. The key is to isolate on the defender, not the... show more
119 Comments
We get it, you glaze Shai really hard. It's not new.
Did u watch the whole clip?
@TWolvesLead Yea you saying shai is going from a to b and he was cut off but he wasn’t.. HE created the contact .. defender has the right to slide his feet U a glazer bruh
@TWolvesLead Well, contact between an offensive player and a defensive player who is not in legal guarding position (directly in the path, squared up to the driver) is just about always called on the defender - per the rulebook. 🤷♂️
@gswyd @TWolvesLead It’s the fact that Shai threw his own body on the ground and Deni stayed on his feet. Sure it’s a foul but Shai is foul baiting and not playing real basketball at times.
@gswyd @TWolvesLead
dude just sit this one out, that is nasty flop
So you don't see the hip to hip contact? Did u train your eyes on the defender like refs are trained to do?
It's a flop, no one has ever seen a foul like that disgusting
SGA deceptively falling to sell this contact (even if the defensive foul call is correct) is what jumps off of the screen to me here. Lots of players do this (in different ways). It's objectively beneficial for them (and their teams). But...it's bad TV (in my opinion).
Maybe. But hop to hip contact that isn't nothing at the moment he's planting the inside foot can definitely cause imbalance. How much can be up for debate
For sure...and I might be wrong. I've just seen him be so quick/balanced/strong during other drives that this hits my eye as a grifty maneuver.
@bballbreakdown OK. Finally a level-headed individual speaking on this topic. I'm a Thunder fan, so I often avoid these conversations due to my obvious bias. But I agree with you. Shai is incredibly balanced and strong normally, so it's obvious that he embellished this contact.
@bballbreakdown Appreciate the reply! You guys have quite the team this year.
@tallguyGreg @bballbreakdown This is so white😂. Sga clearly flops and it is a defensive foul. We just need sga to stop flopping cause he gets the benefit of the doubt from the refs anyway. btw this isn't a business email. No need to appreciate the reply. This is twitter.
@tallguyGreg @bballbreakdown Appreciate the reply!
@23kingcontrol @tallguyGreg Bob, I salute you
You were cucking for the warriors until they died & now you are cucking for the thunder. Disgusting man
I'm just here to help, my man 😂
What you are failing to understand is that SGA consistently uses his off hand to push off(some legally) and plays physical at the point of attack. As a defender you are at a disadvantage if the game is gonna be called like this. They should call offensive fouls on SGA
I certainly would fail to understand this point if we're focused on this play
Its a insult to the majority of fans that watch this game and know it. It’s clear superstars get their calls but there’s a reason SGA gets a lot of hate. He plays on arguably the most handsy and physical team defensively that doesn’t get called for these same touch fouls SGA get
He’s one of the best players. Nobody is taken anything away from him. If the contact that happened in this play got called universally… it would be a free throw contest and the game of basketball would become unwatchable.
And if u kept watching, you'd see Deni got almost the same call and more
You are a bball breakdown with 100k plus and you are really comparing SGA play to this? God bless
@bballbreakdown You know deni got more calls than this right? Why are we acting like this Shai call is the craziest thing that happened that night lmao
@bballbreakdown This dumbass argument that he doesn’t shoot the most FT. The issue isn’t how many he shoots it’s how he gets to the line. SGA could should 16FT a game… if they weren’t ticky tac fouls nobody would care.
This clip is making the rounds because SGA gets a little bump then acts like he got hit by a semi truck. Nobody cares if its a foul or not because its a flop regardless.
Cool. So obviously every player gets this call.
So you don't see the clear hip to hip contact?
@yetske1 So you don't think this kind of contact happens in every single game and doesn't get called and the player doesn't flop? If you called every foul by the book in every game the league would dry up and wither away.
@yetske1 There's plenty of evidence (stay tuned for the video) that the refs are fairly consistent on these types of plays
And I don't think I'm gonna shut the hell up, so I'd recommend trying a new method of communication lolz
You should try a different method than trying to gaslight people that SGA gets the same fouls as everyone else, we all know he doesn't. He's a skilled player and doesn't need to flop like a seal every play, but he does it anyway and it stinks up the game.
HOw many clips from other players getting these same type of calls would convince you? Give me a number
It’s obviously a foul by the current letter of the law. It’s also a disgusting flop — a dramatic flail, throwing himself to the floor at minimal contact he could easily avoid or play through but chooses not to get cheap points. It is dishonorable and a disgrace to the sport
That's cap because no one else besides Luka is getting this call. So no, it's not a foul as it's applied 99% of the time
And yet, Deni got it in this game
They were horrible calls as well.
Bro you gotta be kidding me you are really trying to be a catalyst of everything that is wrong with todays game and see light in the shit that fans hate and trying to make this sound intelligent makes you sound more dumb
Counterpoint: most fans don't study the rulebook and are basing their anger on some sort of 7th grade PE teacher understanding of them. The refs in the NBA must follow the actual rules, and that's all I'm doing: explaining the rules 🤷♂️
Dude ive argued with you proved you wrong and once you get proven wrong you stop replying your a fraud tryna sound smart and its bad for the game
Forgive me if I say this too harshly but you proved.... nothing. And then you said I stopped replying as you reply.... to my reply... What are we doing here?
Not too harsh! Im not talking about this one instance also, you are not good for the game, if you are trying to promote this style of play and even compare the deni and sga fouls
Isn't educating fans on the rules good for the game? Clearly they don't know them very well... I believe if they did, the anger on these calls would get tamped down.
Yes it is, however it would be nice if refs called it correct this wouldnt be an issue, sga never gained the spot on the floor, he used his off hand to swat a defenders hand away and then threw his hip at him again initiating contact
It’s a foul but can we stop showing videos of SGA on physio balls talking about his core strength when this knocks him to the ground?
I'm thinking lunges would do the trick
@brianmccormick I think the thing is, that he’s actually INCREDIBLY balanced and that he’d have to be to get to the positions he does and yet absolutely pretends not to be to bait refs and exaggerate contact.
@bballbreakdown That's my point. If he's as strong as they say, it's grifting. You can't argue for super strength, see this, and also argue he's not grifting.
@Mechanixx That said, getting that amount of contact at the instant he's planting his left foot can certainly cause imbalance. And it's impossible to measure just how much it can cause 🤷♂️
@brianmccormick @Mechanixx If it's "impossible to measure"...what are the standards for enforcing the flopping rule? I'd be interested in seeing a thread from you on this. If there is a defensive foul call followed by a flop call on the same play...how does that play out?
@brianmccormick @Mechanixx More food for thought: the definition of a flop is the intentional deception by a player to fool the ref into thinking a foul occurred when it actually didn't
Its borang to watch and feels gimmicky. Its not so much the foul call but all the extra to. The head movement, flapping of arms, and falling down and sliding 10 feet. I thought the NBA was going to make an attempt at getting rid of flopping.
The problem is the flopping afterwards. It’s so disingenuous and manipulative. There’s no place for this rubbish in this sport.
At some point you need to establish if you actually like basketball. You constantly fight against the grain—-SGA threw himself to the floor over incidental contact. The point most people try to make with you is that NBA officiating has become a massive joke and a detriment to the game. Whether it is protecting flopping or allowing 3+ steps to the hoop or reviewing obviously bad calls—-the league has become a joke. Defending Silver and his Harlem Globetrotting crew of officials—is the reason it has become unwatchable.
Can I quote tweet this?
Dude we don’t care if it’s technically correct for the ref to call the foul it’s not a normal basketball play and everyone is sick of watching that shit regardless of what player does it - shai just gets the most shit since he does it the most
Technically it’s a foul and that can be argued. What people are sick of and what you fail to comprehend is that the minor force that contacted him, shouldn’t ever send someone flying like that. It’s an eyesore for the game
I realized not long ago this acc doesn’t actually know what their talking about but tries really hard to sound like it
You guys have been gaslit into thinking this is a foul. Pathetic. I'm kind of a moron for arguing with such idiots though.
Real question: have you ever studied the nba rulebook in any depth?
I'm trying not to be a moron
It's rough
The two clips you played are very very different. Shai makes the contact with Murray, Williams goes into Deni. Besides… the whole point is the massive flop to end it when guys like Giannis and Edwards are getting assaulted to get a foul
Notice how Deni doesn’t launch himself into the 5th row when he takes the contact?
here come the dumbasses to talk about “it’s about how he reacts!!!” no, you’re changing the narrative because twitter clips already convinced you that he’s this historically unethical player you don’t watch the games, and you only perpetuate this because you don’t like Shai
No conspiracy but this isn’t an isolated incident. The embellishment just to get calls is just lame as hell. Luka is in the same boat. Guys are too good to be resorting to antics to gain an advantage. And miss me with the taking advantage of the rules. It’s just lame hoops period
Well, can we at least agree that this was a foul?
No. It’s marginal contact. It’s a contact sport. He embellishes the contact to make it seem more egregious and “illegal” than it actually is. Was Murray in a legal guarding position? No. But that isn’t the only determinant of a foul. Thats not a foul at any level of basketball
Well, based on that degree of contact, I don't think the refs had to even think twice about blowing the whistle. That said, it's turned into the Zapruder film considering I've watched it 2,000 times and 🤷♂️
Lmao because dude flopped on the floor like he got sniped from the catwalk. The fact that you don’t even acknowledge what SGA repeatedly does and try to defend what is clearly not related to actual basketball, as a basketball page, is certainly something…
@bballbreakdown You mad at this account for being truthful instead of sheeping to internet brain rot?
@jbrodie03 And I haven't defended what happens after the foul, either. Other than to say it's hard to know just how much of an effect on balance that contact caused considering it happens the instant before he plants the inside foot and tries to jump
@AC0278 I don’t buy that because guys have tendencies and reputations. Same reason Draymond gets T’d up so often. There is already an awareness by EVERYONE who does what and when. You telling me refs treat all players the same based off just “the effect on balance”? Stop it
I agree that in the rule book this is a foul, albeit a light one. My main issue is: why is he shooting free throws for it? If the foul happens here, it’s before his gather, and outside of the lower defensive box.
Steph gets this type of defense LITERALLY everitme he drives with and especially without the ball , the problem is why the hell do we have different type of whistle to players and supertars ?
Both things can be true. Illegal guarding position, and a flop to make sure the refs see it.
@JMadden44 There's just no telling how much imbalance is caused with hip to hip contact at the instant the inside foot is being planted
@JMadden44 My fucking God this is incredible. We have the most talented basketball players ever. But we have to excuse this bullshit. This is just not a normal basketball move.
@JMadden44 Just so we're clear, it's not the foul u have an issue with, it's the part where he falls down after the contact, right?
@NOODLES36 @JMadden44 Of course. What happened to marginal contact anyway? Ref apply it only when it pleases them
@NOODLES36 @JMadden44 The contact is always deemed "marginal" when it's okc's great defenders
@NOODLES36 @JMadden44 Great clip! The defender on Mathurin is pretty close if not in legal guarding position. And we also can't deny that thresholds for marginal contact are different in playoff games vs regular season, and that goes for all teams and players
no. that was a terrible call. just because a guy is good at baiting and flopping doesn't mean refs should reward him relentlessly. its an ugly brand of basketball and not fun to watch.
Well, based on the rules and degree of contact, I can tell you this wasn't even a difficult play for the refs to process and blow the whistle.
he wasn't touched dude. I don't care what the rules say. they are obviously complete garbage if they allow crap like this.
Nope, just no. SGA was already past him, and that was a minor brush with no effect on the offensive player... UNTIL SGA pushed off the defender by extending his elbow into the defender which allowed him to sell the flop. THAT is the problem.
You can rest assured that I studied that elbow for a while before posting. The hip to hip contact occurs just before any movement of that elbow. And there just isn't enough contact nor does the elbow extend away from the body nearly enough to rise to the level of an offensive foul.
Nah, not an offense, just a no call in my opinion. What resulted in that jump to the side was SGA pushing off the defender, not the defender running into him. Also I checked frame by frame and I cannot see a hip to hip contact.
Ok, I blew it up even bigger and we can describe it as midsection to shoulder contact. If we were to see this from directly above, you'd see as Murray is pushing off his right foot, his vector goes almost towards the right sideline, directly into SGA's vector which was heading towards the rim
Imo the shoulder was in front already and the contact was arm-elbow to the midsection. If SGA didn't extend the arm to have an excuse for the flop he would just get in front of the defender. We need more angles and better quality vid tho 😅
I don't think we can classify this as an elbow extension tho Why can't the defenders just be better? Like, Kuminga gets called for a quick pull when he's extended his arm across SGA's chest for 2 full secs and everyone is upset at the call
@Jarothz There isn’t enough contact on this play for SGA to go to the ground. There just isn’t. He’s trained himself (as have many) to accentuate (and at times seek) any contact on a drive or shot rather than playing through contact. Which is what happens in the second part of the clip.
@Jarothz It's always difficult to judge how much the clear contact can affect balance, particularly when it occurs at the instant he's planting the inside foot while moving at speed.
It’s a flop. There is not enough contact for Shai to fall over like that.
It's tough to gauge how severe the imbalance can be when there's hip to hip contact at the exact moment he's trying to plant the inside foot
No it’s really not tough at all on that particular play. He egregiously flops
You SGA cucks just never get the point. If you broke down the game like this for every single player, fouls would be getting called all game. The difference is SGA gets these calls because he flails and flops. Is it smart? Yes. Is it enjoyable to watch? Fuck no.
Did you post the wrong video? The contact was initiated with SGA's off arm and that is why he got beat initially. Then SGA initiated the second contact with his off arm. If he doesn't extend the arm there is no contact
He was already starting to get beat as he's putting the ball down. Defender and SGA are using their arms as he swipes it back behind him, not overtly into the defender. For that to be an offensive foul, he'd have needed to cause enough contact for the defender to move backwards a lot. After zooming in even further and going frame by frame, the contact is not hip to hip as much as mid section to left shoulder. And again, SGA's arm bar would've had to have extended much farther from his body and affected the defender much more to even consider it an offensive foul. Meanwhile, the defender's vector takes him directly into SGA's path and causes enough contact that it's almost impossible for the refs to ignore
I didn't say it was an offensive foul. Just that he initiated it. There was no foul anywhere in that clip by anyone
Well, based on the rules and the degree of contact, the refs didn't have to think twice to call that one
And NBA refs are known for being very good at their job. There was barely any contact. You don't need to call a foul everytime someone's jersey rubs against a different color jersey
I mean, I just don't think it's a credible argument to say there was "barely" any contact
Again, I must be looking at a different video
you must be lolz
The issue isnt if that's a foul... its the fact thay OKC's defense is 100x more physical than this and they don't get called for fouls. But this ticky tack shit thats sold by SGA gets whistles everytime. One team can play football while the other can't sneeze on OKC.
SGA initiated the contact. The bigger issues here, though, are that he flopped exaggerating the contact and that the Thunder are 100% more physical on the other end and do way more to warrant foul calls but never get called for them. But you're just an industry plant for the refs
It's hard to argue that SGA initiates the contact/all the contact when the defender is moving more towards the right sideline when contact occurs, yanno?
You see him lower his shoulder and move his body towards Murray. Just willfully blind. No ball knowledge. Just Thunder and ref glazing.
If you study SGA's feet, which is what determines his direction, you can see he's not stepping into the direction of the defender. The defender is moving more towards the right sideline instead of parallel to SGA's drive. I can see this after decades of experience watching these plays unfold. But I totally get why folks are upset because he falls
Murray is conceding the position, slowing down and turning his body so that he can be in position to contest the shot attempt from behind, a common shot blocking technique. SGA lowers his shoulder and leans in, changing his angle of attack to go into the defender and bouncing off
If you want to argue that's a foul (it should be a no call or a flopping tech), then whenever Dort and Caruso grab and two hand shove players, it should also be a foul. It's never called. See Caruso "guarding" Jokic and Lu Dort tackling Haliburton in the finals for a "turnover"
You want to champion unethical, unwatchable basketball on an "achshually" when you're ACTUALLY wrong. Hell, I'm anti-Bucks and I see Giannis getting walloped every play to no call, but see SGA launching himself like he's been hit by a swinging log every play and get every whistle
It would seem that we're ignoring the clear vector path of the defender. This sounds like you want a rule change. I'm just explaining why the refs have to call this on the defender per the rulebook.
SGA is so good at faking fouls he even got you in slo mo
He falls to the ground on the slightest contact I think is the point. Other guys who play through this level or more of contact without flopping like a fish (ANT, Giannis, etc.) do not get this call nor other more forceful contact even if by the letter it should be a foul.
My problem is the clear embellishment. It is a foul but Shai flops to force the ref to blow the whistle. In general I don’t like how often NBA players hit the floor. A slight breeze sends these guys flying
