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Fields Medalist Timothy Gowers: "when we solve maths problems ourselves, we understand exactly what we're doing. when we one-shot a maths problem with ChatGPT, we don't — we just stuck it in a machine" How can AI find such long, complex proofs? What algorithm is operating inside the LLM?...

29,866 次观看 • 2 天前 •via X (Twitter)

33 条评论

Jeffrey Dean Hochderffer 的头像
Jeffrey Dean Hochderffer2 天前

Nothing is preventing them from studying the AI results until they understand it, if they can. Progress cannot wait for them to understand. We don’t understand how 90% of things work.

Sergio Castro 的头像
Sergio Castro2 天前

LLMs are great at explaining things. Hook it to Blender, ask for explanation videos.

Amy · fireply.ai 的头像
Amy · fireply.ai2 天前

nobody asked the calculator how it works either

Sean McClure 的头像
Sean McClure2 天前

No. The fact that mathematicians aren’t getting it tells us a lot.

Freedom_Aint_Free 的头像
Freedom_Aint_Free2 天前

Wasn't Riverside who said that "one doesn't need to understand digestion in order to appreciate a good dinner!" ?

Rishabh Kumar 的头像
Rishabh Kumar2 天前

then we ask the machine to explain 😂

Brian Decoded - Alpha Efficiency.™ 的头像
Brian Decoded - Alpha Efficiency.™2 天前

bro is envious

Logan Gabriel 的头像
Logan Gabriel2 天前

I don’t care the exact details of how warp drive works - as long as it works - nerds can take hundreds of years to refine our understanding while we go explore the stars

Xia Li 的头像
Xia Li2 天前

@grok what algorithms had been deployed to generate the candidates solutions and verify via LEAN and feedback verification results and improve and generate new candidates solutions?

Simo | ai-costguard 的头像
Simo | ai-costguard2 天前

Long proofs aren't a search algorithm. They're learned representations under pressure

William Zhu 的头像
William Zhu2 天前

New talk from Terence Tao yesterday:

Biscuit 的头像
Biscuit2 天前

at least in math you can check every step

Ludovicus D. 的头像
Ludovicus D.2 天前

All these Fields medalists so-called great mathematicians are revealing themselves hopelessly clueless in front of AI. They have no idea about how&why it works. They don't know how to use it. They don't know what to do next. They look pathetic.

Gill 的头像
Gill2 天前

Verification being trivial while proof discovery feels uninterpretable is classic math.

Wanderer of the Stars 的头像
Wanderer of the Stars2 天前

It really won’t matter we don’t understand how it did it. The future will be AI building on top of AI without humans in the loop.

Konstantin 的头像
Konstantin2 天前

When he states his assumptions, it is categorically incorrect to use the word "we." It would be correct to use the pronoun "I." Just because he doesn't understand, it doesn't mean that no one else understands!

Lemurinus 的头像
Lemurinus2 天前

I am a mathematician and for many years I have been saying that these "geniuses" are the dumbest people in the world. Finally, the world can see it with its own eyes.

BaloonedWallabohe 的头像
BaloonedWallabohe1 天前

These guys act like humans didn’t use fire before understanding it. Or oxygen. Or gravity.

j363j 的头像
j363j1 天前

Prompt an AI reasoning model for help with understanding.

Dominik 的头像
Dominik2 天前

does the machine show its steps, or only the finished proof?

Sly Sylow 的头像
Sly Sylow2 天前

Tim is the goat 🐐.

TheMCDStudio 的头像
TheMCDStudio2 天前

Some of the math papers contain math that is SI thinking 'outside the box'. That is the point, SI is discovering new 'alien' maths as solutions. Mathematicians would do well to try to learn it. It will help them grow in math comprehension. Posing the problems is still the job.

Chahat Sharma 的头像
Chahat Sharma2 天前

does the full talk say which of the summer proofs he went through line by line himself? the clip makes it sound like even he is taking some of them on trust

Steve Scully For US President 的头像
Steve Scully For US President2 天前

By making shit up and it being proclaimed in an impossible-to-review manner of a huge dump like a lawyer trying to hide evidence in bulk frivolous shit

Jatin Garg 的头像
Jatin Garg2 天前

@haider1 the harder question is what happens when the machine gives you a proof that looks complete but has a subtle flaw. how do you catch it without understanding each step?

lio khi 的头像
lio khi2 天前

The same when reading the proof of transcendance of Pi by Lindemann ..

Inverse Gary Marcus ⏫ 的头像
Inverse Gary Marcus ⏫1 天前

Sounds like a good job for mathematicians!

B 的头像
B2 天前

Software devs went through the same phase. The gains come when you realize that you should be driving the AI and not the other way around. Until then, he's right. You're just creating slop.

ChrisvG 的头像
ChrisvG2 天前

People like him will only become more irrelevant as time passes and the models improve even more.

Chey Loveday 的头像
Chey Loveday1 天前

2 diff Qs: - why did an LLM produce a proof - why does it work? fThe irst remains open. We pin sources/assumptions, replay certificates & check Lean 4; then use interpolation, counterexamples, premise ablation and proof-transfer maps to investigate why proofs work or fail.

夏日遐想 的头像
夏日遐想2 天前

大脑如何工作,这个问题也未解决。DNN和大脑都属于复杂结构的范畴。

Alejandro Estay 的头像
Alejandro Estay2 天前

Is not an algorithm, is just picking strings of may-be-related text and refining it. It cannot understsnd the proof it writes.

CharlesGPhD 的头像
CharlesGPhD2 天前

More than that, when a LLM tells us "your proof is wrong", it doesn't understand. It's not checking all the reasoning. So it's fumbling. Not quite hallucinating, but not understanding. When you prove something, you have that intricate understanding.

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