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Generative models (diffusion/flow) are taking over robotics 🤖. But do we really need to model the full action distribution to control a robot? We suspected the success of Generative Control Policies (GCPs) might be "Much Ado About Noising." We rigorously tested the myths. 🧵👇

112,893 views • 10 months ago •via X (Twitter)

26 Comments

Chaoyi Pan's profile picture
Chaoyi Pan10 months ago

Common wisdom says GCPs beat Regression because of 1️⃣ Multi-modality handling 🔀 2️⃣ Better pixel-based control 🖼️ 3️⃣ Expressivity 🧠 💡Finding1: We debunked this. When controlling for architecture, regression match flow on almost all tasks, except for a few high-precision tasks.

Chaoyi Pan's profile picture
Chaoyi Pan10 months ago

To understand that gap, we proposed a new taxonomy for GCPs. They aren't just one thing; they are 3 components: 📊 Distribution Learning 🎲 Stochasticity Injection 🔄 Supervised Iterative Compute

Chaoyi Pan's profile picture
Chaoyi Pan10 months ago

💡 Finding 2: It turns out the magic ingredient isn't "Generative Modeling"—it's 🔄 Iterative Correction + 🎲 Noise. We built the Minimal Iterative Policy (MIP): ✅ A simple 2-step regression policy ✅ No complex distribution matching ✅ Matches Flow/Diffusion performance

Chaoyi Pan's profile picture
Chaoyi Pan10 months ago

Apart from single-task settings, our simple recipe (MIP) even works for finetuning VLAs!

Chaoyi Pan's profile picture
Chaoyi Pan10 months ago

💡 Finding 3: Why does Iteration + Noise work? It’s not just "expressivity." It’s Manifold Adherence. Iterative compute ensures that even when the robot sees weird observations (OOD), the output action remains on the "manifold" of physically plausible movements.

Chaoyi Pan's profile picture
Chaoyi Pan10 months ago

Start treating your policy architecture as an iterative solver, not just a distribution fitter ;) 📄 Paper: 💻 Code: 🌐 Website:

Chaoyi Pan's profile picture
Chaoyi Pan10 months ago

If you see @max_simchowitz @GuanyaShi @nmboffi @guannanqu at NeurIPS, feel free to chat with them about our work! Work led by me w/ Giri Anantharaman, Nai-Chieh Huang, Claire Jin, Daniel Pfrommer, Chenyang Yuan, Frank Permenter, @guannanqu , @nmboffi, @GuanyaShi, @max_simchowitz

Minghuan Liu's profile picture
Minghuan Liu10 months ago

Insightful work! Thanks for sharing. A quick question, how will MIP behave when data is a.1 (and I agree that most cases we have b.1)?

Chaoyi Pan's profile picture
Chaoyi Pan10 months ago

It depends which loss norm you use, L1 will predict one mode (medium value) while L2 will predict the mean.

Minghuan Liu's profile picture
Minghuan Liu10 months ago

So you are saying that if data is a.1, better still using flow matching policy?

쇼팽.'s profile picture
쇼팽.10 months ago

I am not sure if those benchmarks in the paper (robomimic, libero,eg) are actually multimodal enough. If both regression and diffusion get near 100% SR, that means the benchmark is not a good one to begin with. Maybe try d3il?

Chaoyi Pan's profile picture
Chaoyi Pan10 months ago

We have pusht and kitchen which is quite multimodal. Do you think d3il is multimodal? Happy to give it a shot ;)

Chongkai Gao's profile picture
Chongkai Gao10 months ago

I think these guys have already given a similar theoretical analysis in their paper:

Alper Canberk's profile picture
Alper Canberk10 months ago

great work! have you investigated matching training FLOPs between these methods? MIP has two forward passes in the training objective

Chaoyi Pan's profile picture
Chaoyi Pan10 months ago

That’s a great question. Computation are aligned since we randomly sample one step in MIP to compute loss. So the function evaluation number stay the same across training.

Rob's profile picture
Rob10 months ago

Great work! Really interesting paper. I'm curious about what you think about recent non-iterative generative policies (C1+C2) like and These methods are basically regression but with additional mechanisms that encourage better use of the noise space. It seems that either C1+C2 and C2+C3 can work well, but I wonder about the trade offs.

Chaoyi Pan's profile picture
Chaoyi Pan10 months ago

In the non-iterative methods you mentioned, their evaluated task (robomimic, kitchen) is where we find regression is on par with flow with correct architecture. In our paper we use shortcut models as C1+C2 example, whose performance is worse than MIP/flow on most challenging task

Irving Fang's profile picture
Irving Fang10 months ago

Haven’t entirely finished reading because it’s a long one but love this type of work!! Good old fashioned science that truly tries to understand things instead following the hype

Stan Szymanowicz's profile picture
Stan Szymanowicz10 months ago

Great analysis Chaoyi!

SoloTech's profile picture
SoloTech10 months ago

Generative Control Policies are getting hype, but testing the assumptions is exactly what the field needs.

^HI^'s profile picture
^HI^10 months ago

Nice work! Do you explore how different models generalize to new objects/envirments? I feel that might be where diffusion/flow models can shine

Chaoyi Pan's profile picture
Chaoyi Pan10 months ago

We have multi-task training with LEBERO. For zero-shot experiment, I guess we need to pertrain a model and this paper doesn’t answer that. I think that would be an interesting future work!

Robert Scoble's profile picture
Robert Scoble10 months ago

I had Grok explain this to me and why what you reported is important. Then in a way a child could understand. Thought you'd find it entertaining, because it made it very clear to me. Thanks for your work!

xknn's profile picture
xknn7 months ago

great work. recently I was trying to use the mean flow actor type in it.But it seems like there are some problem in your meanflow implementation.The training process is break out in 150k steps.may I discuss with you if you are thinking about meanflow policy in robotics control

Danelle Stewart's profile picture
Danelle Stewart10 months ago

Check DM

just10101's profile picture
just1010110 months ago

Shameless @danfei_xu stop stealing from students/ interviewees - Shame on @ICatGT

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