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It is BS to think that open source runs away with it by being cheaper. “This whole cost dynamic does not mean that open source just runs away with it. The labs are obviously also going to offer much cheaper versions of their own models. Their access to compute... show more

Harry Stebbings

699,684 subscribers

22,329 次观看 • 4 天前 •via X (Twitter)

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11 条评论

Dan Gray 的头像

Dan Gray4 天前

That argument seems a lot more true for the cheaper models from Meta and Google, attached to giant money printers that can subsidise usage, than it does for the private labs.

hrishikesh kamath 的头像

hrishikesh kamath4 天前

Partly true. But, I also believe a lot of companies will start self hosting in order have lower inference costs. Thats where open source models will still come into place. For others, yes using cheaper frontier models might be a thing.

serx · fireply.ai 的头像

serx · fireply.ai4 天前

i run open weights for the boring stuff and a lab model when it matters. most builders i know do the same

Lena Vogt 的头像

Lena Vogt4 天前

Open source being cheaper doesn’t mean it runs away with the market. Labs can subsidize cheaper models and still have the compute edge. Open weights take a real share, but price alone doesn’t settle it. @Alondra_bons has been making the same split.

Uttam Gupta 的头像

Uttam Gupta4 天前

Cheap wins demos. Trust wins enterprise.

Max Curnin 的头像

Max Curnin4 天前

On Va voire

Raven 的头像

Raven4 天前

i hear “compute advantage” and start wondering which model gets the nicer cage

泰坦链 | DeFi 的头像

泰坦链 | DeFi4 天前

Labs subsidizing prices just makes the moat feel more artificial. It is a war of attrition at this point.

Michael Fallon 的头像

Michael Fallon4 天前

Even if a company never switches to an open model, having a credible alternative changes its next pricing conversation with a lab.

Aki Kakko 的头像

Aki Kakko4 天前

Most of the workloads will be eventually on-device...

Rajil Jain 的头像

Rajil Jain4 天前

@grok long inference means which type of companies

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What does it mean when an AI model is “open weights” and how is it different than “open source”? Welcome to the next episode of the Open Model Series with merve, Hugging Face AI/ML engineer & open-sourceress! Every week we will discuss open-source & open-weight AI: what it is, how it works, and how you can run them on your own compute. Episode 3 out next week; episode 1 linked below. Please leave all your questions about open-source & open-weight AI in the comments. This is a super important topic that is novel to most people, and it can be challenging to grasp - so your questions are shared with many others.

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Jensen says Open Source can be MORE expensive for enterprises, Brad Gerstner explains why: Brad Gerstner: “Over the last two weeks, everybody's been saying that the Chinese have caught up, that open source tokens have caught up in intelligence, that they're much cheaper, etc. And Elon comes out and says, ‘Not so fast. We're entering the singularity, and the frontier models are way further ahead than people think.’ I believe that to be true. And then Jensen came out this week and said, ‘Closed models are actually cheaper if you don't have to build it for yourself, the training costs, and a lot of expertise to fine-tune, and maintain, and guardrail, and keep it safe. So he's basically making the argument that not only are the frontier models further ahead, but that the cost differential between the two is not what everybody's making it out to be, which I think explains why (closed models) continue to run away with it on the revenue side of the equation. For the vast majority of use cases, I think token consumption is going up for the open source guys, while share of economics is going up for the frontier labs. I think that's what we want to see.” $NVDA

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Sam Altman warns of an impending wave of cyber attacks from open-source models that can soon do serious damage "The strongest message I have is you have to defend against this impending wave of cyber attacks. I think we are not that far away from open-source models that can do serious damage." "Clearly we should not stop open-source models from happening, that's important. But there is going to be this huge cyber threat that's going to come." "So while there is this little period of advantage, please use something to defend yourselves."

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Jason Calacanis: Anthropic, OpenAI and others are trying to kill OpenClaw Why? Because an open source agent platform is an existential threat to frontier model companies. @jason: “ People are going to say I'm a conspiracy theorist, but the number one goal, I believe, in the large language model, frontier model space, is to kill (OpenClaw). This is a giant movement to stop it, because this is the equivalent of having an open source Android-like player in the market, and that could be incredibly disruptive. Because, I believe, open source is going to win the day on the large language models and take 90% of the token usage, and I think the entire frontier model space could be undercut by open source. And I think they realize that SLMs, the smaller language models that are verticalized now, that will run on desktops and laptops and are even starting to run on the top ones, that is their biggest competitive threat, and I hope it happens.”

The All-In Podcast

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The open-source & open-weight frontier is 7 months behind the closed-model frontier. Let’s talk about it. Check out last week’s episode for the reasons why you might want to consider open-source & open-weight models. Welcome to the fourth episode of the Open Model Series with merve, Hugging Face AI/ML engineer & open-sourceress! We have been discussing open-source & open-weight AI: what it is, how it works, and how you can run them on your own compute. Please leave all your questions about open-source & open-weight AI in the comments! This is a super important topic that is novel to most people, and it can be challenging to grasp - so rest assured your questions are shared with many others!

Harper Carroll

17,279 次观看 • 1 个月前

.Josh Wolfe: Anybody Using DeepSeek App Is 'Absolute Fool' "Anybody using the DeepSeek app is an absolute fool. If you're using DeepSeek on companies like Together Compute, one of Lux's companies, which can get rid of the CCP censorship, then it's probably okay. But remember, the open-source movement is something we deeply believe in. Most great technologists, entrepreneurs, and venture capitalists are on the side of open source. The closed-source models that have consumed tens of billions of dollars are the ones that are really going to be at risk. When you look at Hugging Face, a major repository, or Together Compute, Runway ML, and a lot of Lux's companies, they have been pioneers in open source. Now, why am I not worried about open source, even with the DeepSeek model? As long as you don't have the CCP censorship on it, the models with their open weights allow people to run on their proprietary data. This means companies like pharma or defense companies that have their own siloed, proprietary data—think about Bloomberg with their proprietary longitudinal data, or Meta with their data—are the ones who will have the edge. Even as open source takes hold, these companies will still dominate. I’m not worried about open source being the problem. I’m more concerned about people overfunding closed models with no proprietary source. A lot of capital is going to be burned there, and we’re already seeing that with people worried about OpenAI in some aspects."

.Josh Wolfe: Anybody Using DeepSeek App Is 'Absolute Fool' "Anybody using the DeepSeek app is an absolute fool. If you're using DeepSeek on companies like Together Compute, one of Lux's companies, which can get rid of the CCP censorship, then it's probably okay. But remember, the open-source movement is something we deeply believe in. Most great technologists, entrepreneurs, and venture capitalists are on the side of open source. The closed-source models that have consumed tens of billions of dollars are the ones that are really going to be at risk. When you look at Hugging Face, a major repository, or Together Compute, Runway ML, and a lot of Lux's companies, they have been pioneers in open source. Now, why am I not worried about open source, even with the DeepSeek model? As long as you don't have the CCP censorship on it, the models with their open weights allow people to run on their proprietary data. This means companies like pharma or defense companies that have their own siloed, proprietary data—think about Bloomberg with their proprietary longitudinal data, or Meta with their data—are the ones who will have the edge. Even as open source takes hold, these companies will still dominate. I’m not worried about open source being the problem. I’m more concerned about people overfunding closed models with no proprietary source. A lot of capital is going to be burned there, and we’re already seeing that with people worried about OpenAI in some aspects."

Josh Caplan

40,039 次观看 • 1 年前

Following the release of Kimi K3, tylercowen explains why trying to ban Chinese open-source AI models is a losing strategy and that American companies should compete instead. "Open source is coming and is here, whether we like it or not. Of course, a lot of it will be from China. We should allow American competitors to proceed on an even footing. But the attempt to outlaw it, ban it, or use sanctions against it is going to fail miserably.” "I plead that the Trump administration gives up on this crusade. It will not work."

Following the release of Kimi K3, tylercowen explains why trying to ban Chinese open-source AI models is a losing strategy and that American companies should compete instead. "Open source is coming and is here, whether we like it or not. Of course, a lot of it will be from China. We should allow American competitors to proceed on an even footing. But the attempt to outlaw it, ban it, or use sanctions against it is going to fail miserably.” "I plead that the Trump administration gives up on this crusade. It will not work."

TBPN

138,212 次观看 • 2 个月前

“We have a crisis of open source models in the Western world. Outside of China, there are no good open source models. We don't even have any in the US now. The talent, the capital and the focus to be best-in-class at pre-training, mid-training, post-training is an extremely scarce skillset. The answer for a lot of countries may just be to take an open weights model from China, post-train or fine-tune their own version, and have that be what they start from." Everett Randle Why does the West have such poor open source models and is it a national security threat to rely on open-source Chinese models Demis Hassabis Yann LeCun Aidan Gomez Lilian Weng Jan Leike

“We have a crisis of open source models in the Western world. Outside of China, there are no good open source models. We don't even have any in the US now. The talent, the capital and the focus to be best-in-class at pre-training, mid-training, post-training is an extremely scarce skillset. The answer for a lot of countries may just be to take an open weights model from China, post-train or fine-tune their own version, and have that be what they start from." Everett Randle Why does the West have such poor open source models and is it a national security threat to rely on open-source Chinese models Demis Hassabis Yann LeCun Aidan Gomez Lilian Weng Jan Leike

Harry Stebbings

63,738 次观看 • 3 个月前

Zuck: "For anyone who shows up now and is doing open source now that we have done it, there's a question. They already have their revealed preference for what they would build if open source didn't exist - it wasn't open source. We need to be careful about relying on their continued behavior for the future of the technology that we're gonna build at this company."

Zuck: "For anyone who shows up now and is doing open source now that we have done it, there's a question. They already have their revealed preference for what they would build if open source didn't exist - it wasn't open source. We need to be careful about relying on their continued behavior for the future of the technology that we're gonna build at this company."

Dwarkesh Patel

288,685 次观看 • 1 年前

SITUATION EXPLAINED: What happens to open source when the US restricts access to frontier AI models? We asked Adrian Dittmann: "China is releasing these models [open source] to gain international dominance, people will work on these things and say, 'Hey, maybe I can contribute to this if it's open source.' This is the thing that actually gets them talent." "If you're not allowed into the next GPT release or you're not allowed to use Fable, then what are you gonna do? You're stuck with the existing stuff, or you will have to use an open source model that might have subtly better capabilities." "The United States will catch up to open source in some form as well. They seem to just be maximizing product creation." "The problem with open source models is you have to be kind of a nerd in order to use them properly. Consumer facing, the effects will be minimal because the average person doesn't care about open source models. They only care whether or not they can do a quick search with Gemini or ChatGPT."

SITUATION EXPLAINED: What happens to open source when the US restricts access to frontier AI models? We asked Adrian Dittmann: "China is releasing these models [open source] to gain international dominance, people will work on these things and say, 'Hey, maybe I can contribute to this if it's open source.' This is the thing that actually gets them talent." "If you're not allowed into the next GPT release or you're not allowed to use Fable, then what are you gonna do? You're stuck with the existing stuff, or you will have to use an open source model that might have subtly better capabilities." "The United States will catch up to open source in some form as well. They seem to just be maximizing product creation." "The problem with open source models is you have to be kind of a nerd in order to use them properly. Consumer facing, the effects will be minimal because the average person doesn't care about open source models. They only care whether or not they can do a quick search with Gemini or ChatGPT."

MTS

14,406 次观看 • 3 个月前

David Sacks: Anthropic Is Trying to Crush Open Source AI and the American Developers Who Use It David Sacks: “I know people don't have a lot of sympathy for Chinese companies, that's fine. I'm not defending Chinese companies. I'm defending American developers who need to be able to use everything in the public domain. And let me give you an example. Cursor rolled out its new product, Composer 2. They were able to post-train that model using Kimi K2.5 on their own proprietary coding data. They started with a Chinese open source model, and then they used their own data, and they came up with a new derivative product. This is the way that open source works. You take things that are in the public domain, you fork them, you make them your own. And by the way, once it's in the public domain, it's not a Chinese model anymore. No data is going back to China, nothing's going back to China. An American company has taken open source contributions in the public domain, made it their own, and then developed their own model. And if you say that American companies can't do that, or that somehow it's tainted with IP theft, you are basically going to put a dagger through the heart of the entire American open source ecosystem. And that is exactly what Anthropic wants, because they do not want to have the competition.”

David Sacks: Anthropic Is Trying to Crush Open Source AI and the American Developers Who Use It David Sacks: “I know people don't have a lot of sympathy for Chinese companies, that's fine. I'm not defending Chinese companies. I'm defending American developers who need to be able to use everything in the public domain. And let me give you an example. Cursor rolled out its new product, Composer 2. They were able to post-train that model using Kimi K2.5 on their own proprietary coding data. They started with a Chinese open source model, and then they used their own data, and they came up with a new derivative product. This is the way that open source works. You take things that are in the public domain, you fork them, you make them your own. And by the way, once it's in the public domain, it's not a Chinese model anymore. No data is going back to China, nothing's going back to China. An American company has taken open source contributions in the public domain, made it their own, and then developed their own model. And if you say that American companies can't do that, or that somehow it's tainted with IP theft, you are basically going to put a dagger through the heart of the entire American open source ecosystem. And that is exactly what Anthropic wants, because they do not want to have the competition.”

The All-In Podcast

278,276 次观看 • 2 个月前

.Bill Gurley “I don’t think politicians understand how powerful open source is as a competitive weapon. If you have ten companies all doing open source, the minute an idea is shared, it's available to the other ten and they absorb it immediately. I think the odds that the U.S., with two proprietary models, can stay ahead of China, with ten open source ones, is very low.”

.Bill Gurley “I don’t think politicians understand how powerful open source is as a competitive weapon. If you have ten companies all doing open source, the minute an idea is shared, it's available to the other ten and they absorb it immediately. I think the odds that the U.S., with two proprietary models, can stay ahead of China, with ten open source ones, is very low.”

Codie Sanchez

65,669 次观看 • 6 个月前

ELON: OPENAI WAS MEANT TO BE NONPROFIT AND OPEN SOURCE He’s explaining the original intent and where it went off course. “I came up with the name OpenAI as an open source and nonprofit organization. I funded OpenAI for the first roughly fifty million dollars. It was intended to be a nonprofit, open source company. Now they’re trying to change that for their own financial benefit into a for profit company that is closed source.” Source: Astro Greek

ELON: OPENAI WAS MEANT TO BE NONPROFIT AND OPEN SOURCE He’s explaining the original intent and where it went off course. “I came up with the name OpenAI as an open source and nonprofit organization. I funded OpenAI for the first roughly fifty million dollars. It was intended to be a nonprofit, open source company. Now they’re trying to change that for their own financial benefit into a for profit company that is closed source.” Source: Astro Greek

Mario Nawfal

40,859 次观看 • 8 个月前

FROM THE LIVE SHOW: Matt Hicks (Matt Hicks), President & CEO of Red Hat, on open source and collaboration. "I love the model that open source provides because it provides this incredible collaboration." "This is why we're passionate about smaller models, because they allow that collaborative, open source ethos to thrive a little bit better than the frontier models."

FROM THE LIVE SHOW: Matt Hicks (Matt Hicks), President & CEO of Red Hat, on open source and collaboration. "I love the model that open source provides because it provides this incredible collaboration." "This is why we're passionate about smaller models, because they allow that collaborative, open source ethos to thrive a little bit better than the frontier models."

Forward Future

12,538 次观看 • 1 年前