What's really ironic about this argument is that it actually works against atheism. You have an ape-like creature, it has a baby... but now this* baby is a "human" with real value and human dignity? That makes no sense. Why do humans have any more value or worth than... a fish, a spider, or a rock? The answer is we don't. This is the truth on atheism, and this is why atheist regimes didn't hesitate to murder anyone that got in their way, the same way we indifferently poison ants that annoy us. What's the difference? Let me put it this way. If you believe humans have actual value, and that there's a real and meaningful moral difference between stepping on an ant vs stepping on a baby, you should categorically reject atheism.show more

*poof*

because humans have the ability to be moral agents and have mastered nature in a way that no other animal has, we reason, philosophize, conduct science. that's why we have more value than a fish, spider, a rock. that's the difference. were also the only ones to find murder wrong.

All you’re doing is describing humans and then saying this description gives value. That’s a nonsequitur. Why would these properties give value? Also, are you saying humans that can’t do this stuff have no value?

because if we weigh them against natural law to ground them in objective reality, we can determine that these things objectively give moral value. it's not a non-sequitur, it's literally how we determine value. no, because those humans have that potential as part of a species.

Are you seriously arguing that nature led to some animals being more aligned with natural law than others and that being accidentally more aligned with “natural law” adds value somehow?

no, i argue that nature lead to some animals gaining the ability to reason morals from natural law therefore making them moral agents which is then different level of value from the other animals. animals that can reason morals are more valuable than the ones that cannot.

So yes you are arguing exactly that. Why are animals that happen to accidentally understand morality more valuable than animals that aren’t?

it's not accidental. so that's you're first problem as to why you don't understand. but also it makes us more valuable because we can understand and act upon morality when they cannot. the value comes from being a moral agent.

why does a fish have value grounded in natural law when they do not apply to natural law as they lack the ability to reason? in this aspect, they have negative value.

<<That makes no sense. Why do humans have any more value or worth than a fish, a spider, or a rock?>> As far as the indifferent universe goes there isn't any value. That's why atheism makes total sense. Natural gratuitous suffering is completely consistent with an indifferent universe. Whether it's a gazelle getting eaten by a lion, or a parasite in an eye leading to blindness and a horrible natural death, or if it's childhood bone cancer, the atheist word makes perfect sense. However, we as humans put a great deal of subjective value on human life. We humans also are free to make our own meaning outside of a presupposed meaning written down by ancient goat herders thousands of years ago. D2J , this makes perfect sense!

with everything we've discovered about quantum mechanics; evo devo; all the living fossils we've found; and everything the government has been hiding in science and tech for all these decades, atheism just gets more and more cringe and pathetic. Its just angry people finding intellectually bankrupt excuses to hate God and Christianity, while stealing all its moral assumptions and most of its moral duties as some how justified in an amoral universe. I'm shocked sometimes that anything from the new atheist movement of the 2000s still has people holding onto any of it. Wokism took over and proved their beliefs had no foundation of any kind.

You believe talking snakes trick people into eating magic apples etc.

Creationists have a hard time acknowledging that humans can cooperate to come up with laws based on ethics and morals they devise themselves, instead of morals coming from an outside source.

To have values and morals, we don't need a nonexistent fictional man made deity who punishes the guilty by subjecting the innocent to rape and newborn baby cannibalization

there are zero non-religious humans. But there are humans in all manner of sects who pretend to themselves with all their heart that what they take to be reality is obligatory on other people.

Darwin’s Black Box…

Also even if he’s right, God protects the spirit of animals. The spirit of man goes up to God. The spirit of animal returns to the earth.

Actually it doesn't ! And YOU can prove it too. 🤔👇

I'm not even sure Alex O'connor believes half the stuff he says. I'm pretty sure he's now just placating his athiest followers. That video shows how ridiculous evolution involving humans really is.

To other humans, hunman life has value. This is not a result of god, it’s a result of empathy; and those that humans that had empathy evolved bc empathy has a survival advantage

Queue Matt Dillamonkey song.

Let me put it this way. It took just 30 years for Swallows around highways to shorten their wings by 10% to have better chance of survival. Imagine how much it can do in millions of years.

If Darwin knew what we know now in science he would completely reject his own theory.

Pretty sure God did draw a line between the species and we call it "reproductive isolation".

I hope this guy realises all west countries are secular an atheistic concept bcz religion says to believe or to get kilked

@NotEvolution1 Why do atheists feel they can rightfully accurately judges Gods decision to make Humans “special” as “abstract”?

Funny you brought up babies because didn't God kill them in Egypt?

My mind boggles at the stupidity of the comments..even those who accept the process of evolution try to insert the God concept..At what point along the evolutionary process of the human species did people aquire a soul..Will primitive,neanderthals etc be grunting all over heaven.

Humans have value (mostly) to other human. Whales have value to whales, ants have value to other ants. It's not an argument for an ant god

“An ape had a baby and suddenly it has value??” Yeah, because traits evolve and societies develop ethics. Meanwhile old mate Eric the grifter jumps from “atoms exist” to “therefore murder is fine” like it’s a logical step instead of a personal fantasy.

Reject atheism praise Zeus

So do you have an answer: Is there any responsibility to abide by the laws of men if there were no God?

All this time and you have not understood that most religious people agree that evolution is the best explanation for how life developed. It has nothing to do with atheism. You also fail to understand the length of time involved in evolution because you are a fool.

alright if you don't understand it that's fine you can go back to fucking primary school because its already proven

No, we don't have more value than fish, rock, or broken glass on the street... Is that clearer now...

And the Strawman strikes again. 🥴

its simple your own species takes priority over all others its evolutionary instinct. no god needed.

Going back to his argument: At some point in evolution humans developed consciousness to the point where we could distinguish between right and wrong. At that point we are subject to moral law, because we can make those moral judgements. Prior to that we lived an ignorant life as other animals. And we don't blame a chimpanzee for killing other chimpanzees, because we acknowledge they lack the ability to make moral judgements at our level. So. If we consider the early parts of Genesis as a very short synopsis of the creation of the universe, then we could say: Humans did in fact live in the garden of eden until they ate of the tree, and their eyes were opened. But, if you go into the chronological aspects of it, then it's not a "here is exactly where it happened." And yeah. The knowledge of good and evil is what makes us have value, because we are capable of judging something as good, and something as less good.

you gotta learn who ur responding to man. alex oconnor was literally a vegan for many years bc of morality lmfao

Humans—of all creeds—tend to value another human more than a fish, a spider, or a rock. You know that. Your attempts to dehumanize atheists indicate a mental disorder.