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Morning bathrobe rant: disengage from the syntax.

41,357 görüntüleme • 6 ay önce •via X (Twitter)

45 Yorum

Jackson profil fotoğrafı
Jackson6 ay önce

@k_flowstate Really impressive to stay this tapped in to the bleeding edge of industry at this age

Uncle Bob Martin profil fotoğrafı
Uncle Bob Martin6 ay önce

@k_flowstate

Ömer Okumuş profil fotoğrafı
Ömer Okumuş6 ay önce

I think there are three levels: Structure, Syntax, and Implementation. Syntax goes away, yes. However, structure is not the only thing we should care about. There is also the implementation side. AI can write bad code full of O(n^2), high memory usage, or deadlocks. We need to be attentive to the implementation as well.

Uncle Bob Martin profil fotoğrafı
Uncle Bob Martin6 ay önce

It turns out that once you focus an AI on performance, or memory usage, or any of those other concerns, they are very good at diagnosing it. They’re also very good at coming up with solutions. But they won’t do that on their own. You, the software engineer, have to have the insight to know that there is a performance problem, or a memory usage problem, or some other kind of intrinsic problem, and then focus the agents on solving that problem.

Ömer Okumuş profil fotoğrafı
Ömer Okumuş6 ay önce

I studied Electronics Engineering as a secondary major, just to satisfy my curiosity. But it yielded something priceless. I took a lecture called System Dynamics and Control. The lecture was solely about input-output relations of systems, where you input something, like electricity with known features, and you measure and observe the output. This idea ultimately helped me learn testing: input and output, nothing else. Now I follow the same idea with AI. I test the system performance and pass the results to the AI. The problem goes away iteratively. If you don't rush, it's even faster. And you are right, they are good at finding solutions if they are pointed in the right direction, which is our current responsibility --directing AI

Tristan profil fotoğrafı
Tristan6 ay önce

I understand and agree. I also have a concern. The reason I feel comfortable skimming the code is because of the thousands of hours of painstaking sweat work writing code. I have a sense for what to do. I have a spidey sense for it. But what about the new devs? How do we train them?

Uncle Bob Martin profil fotoğrafı
Uncle Bob Martin6 ay önce

Make them write code for a year working for someone who has that spidey sense. Then let them graduate to driving a single agent, while still being supervised by spidey. After a few years they could graduate to supervising a junior with their own spidey sense.

Tristan profil fotoğrafı
Tristan6 ay önce

That awesome I think you are right! Having been on enough teams with their hair on fire, do we think this is practically going to happen? I think we still have a statistical problem on our hands where there will be thousands of devs who get 5 years of pseudo experience which will cause a very serious shortage of expertise. I’m still concerned. 🫠

Tech Trad profil fotoğrafı
Tech Trad6 ay önce

We need to learn terser languages, because I don’t see how we can keep up with the sheer amount of code and how spread out it is in Java projects.

Uncle Bob Martin profil fotoğrafı
Uncle Bob Martin6 ay önce

Clojure!

Tech Trad profil fotoğrafı
Tech Trad6 ay önce

Agreed. Functional and dynamically typed languages in general should see a resurgence.

Jon Klaric profil fotoğrafı
Jon Klaric6 ay önce

Another banger bathroom rant Uncle Bob, and aligns with my previous analogy between the AI revolution and how the computer revolutionized hydrology/flood modeling. I think there is one detail missing from ‘disengage from the syntax’ (you have somewhat covered this in previous rants though): while we need to skim the code not read the code, we need to make sure that our BS detectors are finely tuned so that even the faintest whiff of BS warrants a deeper dive and analysis, more tests, stricter acceptance criteria, questions of the AI to confirm what it’s doing. AI can write clean, confident code that looks amazing but is perfectly wrong. I think this is why it’s still going to be important to learn to code before controlling AI agents even if most of our jobs aren’t writing syntax anymore, and one of the reasons why most of the biggest productivity gains are for senior programmers rather than junior ones.

Anthony profil fotoğrafı
Anthony6 ay önce

Jumping in time machine. Hi, Uncle Bob. I'm in the year 2075 right now. The script has flipped. Now, AI is downloaded into humans via chemcial-neuro interface. Programmers today manage their emotions to keep themselves efficient. 😅

Rave of Phonetics profil fotoğrafı
Rave of Phonetics6 ay önce

To be a great agent manager, you must bring determinism to the table. People obsess over SKILL, but determinism is the real game-changer. This is pure harness engineering.

roshi profil fotoğrafı
roshi6 ay önce

@syntaxfm, bros?

Yuri Melo (El Yosemite) profil fotoğrafı
Yuri Melo (El Yosemite)6 ay önce

You could write an article about it, if you haven't already.

𝕸𝖊𝖗𝖑◬𝖓𝖎 profil fotoğrafı
𝕸𝖊𝖗𝖑◬𝖓𝖎6 ay önce

Spot on, disengaging from syntax is table stakes now. The real leverage (and risk) shifts to **connectivity and interconnectivity** between agents/modules. How they pass dependencies, enforce boundaries, and wire together at speed. This is exactly why I'm thinking about agent connectivity through a **forensics/security lens** in my case : we need architectural observability that lets us audit "who talked to whom, what flowed where" without drowning in generated syntax. High-level structure + forensic-grade traces becomes the new craft. does this match the direction you're seeing? Syntax is the new assembly language. Connectivity is the new architecture — and security has to live there or we’re toast.

Vance Lever profil fotoğrafı
Vance Lever6 ay önce

Our Head of Engineering gave a morning bathrobe rant last Tuesday. I replaced him with a RAG pipeline that generates a new rant every 4 hours. Our VP of Syntax called it "the most articulate we've ever been." Revenue: unchanged. Morale: not a metric we track.

Z🦨 profil fotoğrafı
Z🦨6 ay önce

I’m waiting for the “non technical people writing code” rant

Mitch Dylan profil fotoğrafı
Mitch Dylan6 ay önce

Uncle Bob Dahmer

Mario Jimenez profil fotoğrafı
Mario Jimenez5 ay önce

Agent Smith vibes going on here. MR. ANDERSON

KubaS profil fotoğrafı
KubaS6 ay önce

As always, great, but: Careful not to mistake architectural decisions for syntax! Low-level implementation is sometimes architectural too. And coherence still matters. Less so in routine methods, but in the cases where it counts, it really counts.

Donald Matisse profil fotoğrafı
Donald Matisse6 ay önce

I'm part autistic. Can anyone explain what Bob is trying to express with the unusual tone of voice and facial expressions? I don't think he is being ironic, because I believe everything he says has a direct literal interpretation. Is this a Boomer thing?

Matthew Zeits profil fotoğrafı
Matthew Zeits6 ay önce

Codex vibes along with standard SE lifestyle stuff. Has no problem with systems engineering workflows either. I've long since given up on syntax unless gpt_5.5 "go be poor somewhere elses" me so I have to thanos that fucker with my jailbreakable local models and poor software engineering skills.

rātimics profil fotoğrafı
rātimics6 ay önce

i added crap testing to my pure c space mining game because of you and its one of the fastest codebases the the ai buddies to add features to

J.M.Mbiyu profil fotoğrafı
J.M.Mbiyu6 ay önce

Disengage Skim through

Eric Fortis profil fotoğrafı
Eric Fortis6 ay önce

To me, the structure is the prompt. e.g., I write a few signatures and pseudo code, and my prompt is: "implement the git diff"

Ken Bar Low profil fotoğrafı
Ken Bar Low6 ay önce

Glad I'm on the right track bob

mbriggs profil fotoğrafı
mbriggs6 ay önce

One of the skills I value most and I get a TONNE of leverage out of with ai, is to be able to look at code or a design and say "this looks wrong". That is a hard, hard, hard thing to get good at though.

Jim Humelsine profil fotoğrafı
Jim Humelsine6 ay önce

I've heard the metaphor that working with AI is similar to pair programming. While I suspect there's some element of this, I think a more accurate metaphor would be that of a tech lead working with a team of ICs. Except in the case of AI, the ICs are AI agents.

Dayton profil fotoğrafı
Dayton6 ay önce

I'm torn between removing and including a code formatter to help me "skim".

Hadi profil fotoğrafı
Hadi6 ay önce

a set of static analysis tools can aid with that, right? this has been the case long before AI but the review (skimming) time is much more significant compared to getting the first draft/PR version working.

bryguy_is @ mr_wilson profil fotoğrafı
bryguy_is @ mr_wilson6 ay önce

Today is gonna be a good day

Omer Gronich profil fotoğrafı
Omer Gronich6 ay önce

If i could trust the model to consistently deliver high quality output i would. But some days it just outputs unbelievable crap and i have to intervene.

Scott Neibarger profil fotoğrafı
Scott Neibarger6 ay önce

Disengaging from even the syntax is probably a good way to not get hired. You have to know syntax to know what's possible.

corujautx 🇧🇷🇦🇺🇺🇦🇹🇼 profil fotoğrafı
corujautx 🇧🇷🇦🇺🇺🇦🇹🇼6 ay önce

the syntax is how you think

Jaden Tripp profil fotoğrafı
Jaden Tripp6 ay önce

So how do you architect codebases to facilitate this? Skills? Linters?

zahir profil fotoğrafı
zahir6 ay önce

Can the Morning Rant become a new book on clean AI or agentic engineering?

Uncle Bob Martin profil fotoğrafı
Uncle Bob Martin6 ay önce

In the works.

allOS.dev - Creating Cross-Platform Apps profil fotoğrafı
allOS.dev - Creating Cross-Platform Apps6 ay önce

Ah, so this is why Python was chosen for LLMs... Ugly syntax no longer mattered. Disconnect from code. Disconnect from syntax. Disconnect from everything....except... The Feed! Keep on importing the Social Media directly into your brain. It's all you need to know now. 🤓🤣

Carlos R. Ramirez profil fotoğrafı
Carlos R. Ramirez5 ay önce

So, more Clean Architecture and less Clean Code 😉

Uncle Bob Martin profil fotoğrafı
Uncle Bob Martin5 ay önce

No, more of both.

technodrone profil fotoğrafı
technodrone5 ay önce

It would be nice if there was a visual way to explore the code kind of like a database diagram but with the ability to drill down to classes then methods as well as the ability to see how data flows. I have worked in legacy payment system and wading through code was so time consuming as a resolution you had to debug, watching the flow and object state changes.

Uncle Bob Martin profil fotoğrafı
Uncle Bob Martin5 ay önce

The great thing about agents is that they'll build you a tool like that in pretty short order. I built one a few months back for a clojure project I was working on. You could use it as a model if you like. Just point your agent at it and tell it to build you one like it for your project.

Rick profil fotoğrafı
Rick6 ay önce

Ok, that's exactly the video I've been waiting from you to show my dev friends because just me saying it isn't enough haha

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